Castrum Lacus Litore killing my desire to play.

I came late to ranking up in Bozja, and only a week ago did i hit rank 10 and get able to do the final part. Problem is though, every time it pops, under 7 people even queue and when people ask in chat for people to queue, they get mocked. On Crystal, and it's been impossible to progress.

I really hope this isn't required for the next relic step, but i have a feeling it is. Not being able to progress with what was intended to be casual content is really killing my desire to even play the game at all, and that depresses me. It's funny, because i even enjoyed Eureka, but this is a terrible design.

Edit:
I was able to get a full group last night, and the run went incredibly smoothly. I still feel it's going to be an issue for people moving forward unless changes are made to either make more want to do it, or able to do with fewer people.

It's about to be lively again after patch I think. Or something like that soon with updates for Bozja.

Square failed us again by failing to make castrum a better alternative for the relic than all of the other methods. The time investment to get into castrum is far too harsh. An hour after every fresh instance is absolutely dumb. Its hard enough getting people to do it and yet we have to wait an hour just to queue for the thing and hope others queue for it too. Bozja has failed in every way possible except for the story. Eureka was better than this.

So, let me tell you a story. A story in which I disliked Bozja at first, and now I downright hate it with every fiber of my being.
I spent 10 hours today to beat the Castrum, simply because I want the Relic Weapon. I had 6 attempts in there, and every single one failed. Here's what happened:
-Attempt 1: Only got 20 people queued up, wipe on the first boss.
-Attempt 2: Actually killed the first boss, failed miserably on the second boss, time ran out.
-Attempt 3: 10 people. 10 whole people queued up.
-Attempt 4: Got to the last boss, too many new people and too many wipes because the Lyon group failed the DPS check every time.
-Attempt 5: Got the last boss to 10%, but got booted because the timer ran out.
-Attempt 6: Second boss wiped the floor with us, people failed to learn what the orbs do.

Now, here's the thing... the Relic Weapons are supposed to be High-End weapons for casual players if I remember correctly. How in the flying f*ck is a casual player supposed to beat this sh*tfest of content? Content that deviates from every single aspect a casual player learned from dungeons and raids?
Fixed time limit? Nope, gotta go fast in there, one wipe could very well be the end for your group.
Fixed groups? Nope, gotta talk to people who may or may not understand english (I'm from Light datacenter)
Fixed positions for groups? Nope, you have to coordinate with the rest of your group who may or may not understand you.

And with that not being enough, you have to wait AN HOUR to get back in, only to find that not enough people queued up for it because they where getting their butts handed to them by a red chocobo.
A+ decision making there, fantastic job. I really don't have many problems with FF XIV, and I still love the game, but that a team like this made a trainwreck like Bozja is beyond my understanding.
There, I'm done.

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Originally Posted by Korogator

Now, here's the thing... the Relic Weapons are supposed to be High-End weapons for casual players if I remember correctly. How in the flying f*ck is a casual player supposed to beat this sh*tfest of content? Content that deviates from every single aspect a casual player learned from dungeons and raids?

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I think what you don't really understand is that the difficulty level of Castrum is on par with the average 24 man Alliance raid. It isn't that this content is difficult. It's that it requires more than half a brain cell, and maybe a little bit of prep. People don't like to use that much brain power. It IS casual content. There's just a certain subset of this player base that can't handle even the most casual of content. Combine that with those who are genuinely new and still learning (and are actually capable of learning) and it's the perfect storm. Memoria Misera Ex was basically the same way upon release. Many who honestly had no real business in playing Extreme content of any kind decided they suddenly wanted a piece of the pie. Obviously Castrum is a few months old, but it has had renewed interest. That also means that a lot of the veteran players have moved on, which does not help things. The devs also didn't improve the Bozja experience all that much. It's as though they have learned absolutely nothing. Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily agree with their handling of the relics (and dyeable AF gear) this time around, but I wouldn't say it is difficult content by any means. Other players just make it that way.

I originally gave up on Castrum Lacus Litore shortly after Bozja released. I tried for over 15 hours to get in:

- I kept joining instances that were locked and would never spawn Litore.
- On the rare chance Litore would pop, everybody would be in a different duty and miss the queue.
- I made it in twice with very few people and just wasted time and mettle.

So I gave up thinking that SE would make it easier to enter. Any one of these things could have helped:

- Let more than 72 people into an instance.
- Give the Litore queue an extra few minutes.
- Greatly increase the rewards for people who have already done it.
- Remove the shortened timers. They are good for only two attempts at any boss.
- Allow players to swap jobs.
- Sync boss HP within reason to reflect the number of people that make it in.

Nothing was changed to make it easier for people to clear this content which is gating all new relic content. I tried for four hours today and was a complete waste of time and mettle.

Please do anything.

My partner is having the same exact issues. We tried before patch, tried after patch, still can't even get past the first boss in Castrum. Either not enough people join or people queue who want to troll and watch the world burn.

It's fine if something is mandatory for progression. It's not fine if that content is only accessible once an hour with an easy potential for failure. Either add more reward incentives to bring players back or remove the mettle penalty altogether.

Or better yet, remove coin drops from fates which started this whole mess to begin with. I'll mirror the sentiments of the person above me;

Please do anything.

It's horrible but I almost don't want them to fix it. Not to have anyone suffer or get left out. I want their numbers when they look back at who completed their resistance weapon to be so absolutely abysmal that only by living in a world of delusion could they pat themselves on the back like the did after Eureka and assure themselves that everyone loves this and wants more of it. Because our feedback is falling on deaf ears. We need an impact where they actually pay attention.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I think what you don't really understand is that the difficulty level of Castrum is on par with the average 24 man Alliance raid. It isn't that this content is difficult. It's that it requires more than half a brain cell, and maybe a little bit of prep. People don't like to use that much brain power. It IS casual content. There's just a certain subset of this player base that can't handle even the most casual of content. Combine that with those who are genuinely new and still learning (and are actually capable of learning) and it's the perfect storm. Memoria Misera Ex was basically the same way upon release. Many who honestly had no real business in playing Extreme content of any kind decided they suddenly wanted a piece of the pie. Obviously Castrum is a few months old, but it has had renewed interest. That also means that a lot of the veteran players have moved on, which does not help things. The devs also didn't improve the Bozja experience all that much. It's as though they have learned absolutely nothing. Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily agree with their handling of the relics (and dyeable AF gear) this time around, but I wouldn't say it is difficult content by any means. Other players just make it that way.

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You can't really compare it with a normal Alliance raid, safe for the difficulty level, I agree on that point. Problem is, in an Alliance raid you have fixed groups and every group knows what to do or where to go. Let's take World of Darkness as an example, specifically Cerberus. After one run, pretty much everyone knows the "rule" that is
A = Adds
B = Belly
C = Chains, MT

In Lacus Litore, however, most groups already fail to split the group in half. And if we do manage to reach the final boss, it's the same shit again, apparently no one wants to be in the group that fights Lyon, the result is a timer that runs out halfway through the fight.
People are used that there is an even distribution of Tanks/Heal/DPS in every group, because that's what the game automatically does for every single bit of content. People are also used to there being a fixed timer, depending on the content.
Castrum, however, throws all of that out of the window and allows groups that consist of 4 Tanks and 2 Healer for example. Or force that stupid timer down our throats for no apparent reason.
Hell, I probably could even look past all of those issues if I didn't have to wait one hour to get a chance to give it another try.

If I look at some people in my FC, I'm really worried for them. One of them struggled for weeks against the Sapphire Weapon, because that was something she's simply not used to. I don't want to know how much artificially generated playtime she has to sink into this hellhole. Because let's be honest here, that's all you do in Bozja if you're not interested in any of it: You stand there and wait.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

It's horrible but I almost don't want them to fix it. Not to have anyone suffer or get left out. I want their numbers when they look back at who completed their resistance weapon to be so absolutely abysmal that only by living in a world of delusion could they pat themselves on the back like the did after Eureka and assure themselves that everyone loves this and wants more of it. Because our feedback is falling on deaf ears. We need an impact where they actually pay attention.

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I really think there is a movement (again, I think led by NA Community Team) to try to create an elite class of players here who can rule over the rest with an iron or gold/RMT fist. This is what killed XI for a lot of people (and one of the reasons two former XI friends yanked me out of XI into my first XIV character)...

I think they have really screwed up the system -- if they were going to make the first two steps 100% drop, then why not do it here (or, probably alternatively, the reverse...)?

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Originally Posted by Wrestlefire769

I really think there is a movement (again, I think led by NA Community Team) to try to create an elite class of players here who can rule over the rest with an iron or gold/RMT fist. This is what killed XI for a lot of people (and one of the reasons two former XI friends yanked me out of XI into my first XIV character)...

I think they have really screwed up the system -- if they were going to make the first two steps 100% drop, then why not do it here (or, probably alternatively, the reverse...)?

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Dunno how far it goes into that, but they certainly aren't giving the impression they want casual players to stay subbed between MSQ patches.

Grats on getting your clear. Im sure plenty of people who want to get their clear will get it now too.

It's for maximum 48 players, right?

Here's an idea....
Dynamically adjust difficulty based on number of people who enter.

Fewer than 32 players = 10% echo
Fewer than 24 players = 15% echo
Fewer than 16 players = 25% echo

Just an example; I didn't do the math to see what the right values should be.

I remember that Yoshi-P had answered the question of whether Bozja was obligatory or not in order to make the relic.
He said: "You don't have to do Bozja to do your relic, but if you are going to do it, why do you have to do it at the same time?".

And now it is compulsory Bozja, either there was a lie or the dev team did not communicate everything to Yoshi-P and vice versa.

Anyway, Yakuza: Like a Dragon is really fun.

Shadowbringer is an incredible extension for MSQ and raid.
But the relic sucks. When is it fun? : The idea of going 1 hour in a +/- fun content and having a chance to enter a raid with a random result.

I did all the Stormblood relic because it was a pretty exact science and farming in no brain mode for weeks or months, I can do it, but not like that.

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Originally Posted by Naoki34

I remember that Yoshi-P had answered the question of whether Bozja was obligatory or not in order to make the relic.
He said: "You don't have to do Bozja to do your relic, but if you are going to do it, why do you have to do it at the same time?".

And now it is compulsory Bozja, either there was a lie or the dev team did not communicate everything to Yoshi-P and vice versa.

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SE and Yoshi-P never lied, the Bozja storyline was always mandatory. Here is a quote from the Letter from the Producer LIVE Part LVIII Digest (05/01/2020):

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Weapons can be upgraded through two methods.
One involves upgrading them as you progress through the Bozjan Southern Front, while the other involves upgrading weapons through different means. Whichever method you choose, you’ll be required to progress the Save the Queen storyline.

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The storyline, and yes that includes clearing Castrum, was always necessary and this was communicated to us all the way back in May 2020 before Bozja even released.

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Originally Posted by Naoki34

I remember that Yoshi-P had answered the question of whether Bozja was obligatory or not in order to make the relic.
He said: "You don't have to do Bozja to do your relic, but if you are going to do it, why do you have to do it at the same time?".

And now it is compulsory Bozja, either there was a lie or the dev team did not communicate everything to Yoshi-P and vice versa.

Anyway, Yakuza: Like a Dragon is really fun.

Shadowbringer is an incredible extension for MSQ and raid.
But the relic sucks. When is it fun? : The idea of going 1 hour in a +/- fun content and having a chance to enter a raid with a random result.

I did all the Stormblood relic because it was a pretty exact science and farming in no brain mode for weeks or months, I can do it, but not like that.

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What was said was that you had the option to grind the items needed for the 5.35 stages of the relic outside of Bozja but that you would need to complete the Save the Queen story to progress farther.

It's one of those situations where players latched onto their immediate concern without considering what would come after.

If you don't enjoy the content being required to get the relic weapon, skip getting the weapon for now. SE will probably nerf it next expansion like they nerfed Eureka.

No reward is worth suffering through content you feel is bad. The worst thing the player base can do to itself is force complete the content it hates for the sake of an item that might be fun for glamour but isn't need to play the game. It leaves the impression that despite complaints, the players are generally satisfied with the content and it's okay to make more like it. If players stop working on the content even with rewards incomplete (like Pagos when it first came out), it sends a clear sign that changes need to be made.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

It's for maximum 48 players, right?

Here's an idea....
Dynamically adjust difficulty based on number of people who enter.

Fewer than 32 players = 10% echo
Fewer than 24 players = 15% echo
Fewer than 16 players = 25% echo

Just an example; I didn't do the math to see what the right values should be.

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"Oh, they have 10 players, they're good." *doesn't queue*

Nah man. Just nah.

Also, 16 people with 25% Echo probably still couldn't do the split group stuff.

its so wild to me how people playing this game, which is an MMORPG, hate communication so much. "no fixed groups so we have to decide what groups are going where for split mechanics!"

just communicate in say and yell, use auto translate if necessary and be willing to adjust.

and really? complaining about a time limit? bruh you start with 20 minutes and you gain 10 - 20 minutes for every objective you clear. it should not take 20+ minutes to kill a boss with fewer mechanics than your average alliance raid boss, especially with access to items and actions that boost damage. most failed castrum runs i see fail at the first boss, because either top or bottom groups are just flat out unwilling to press dps buttons.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

No reward is worth suffering through content you feel is bad. The worst thing the player base can do to itself is force complete the content it hates for the sake of an item that might be fun for glamour but isn't need to play the game. It leaves the impression that despite complaints, the players are generally satisfied with the content and it's okay to make more like it. If players stop working on the content even with rewards incomplete (like Pagos when it first came out), it sends a clear sign that changes need to be made.

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Exactly. Be the change you want to see in the world. Have 0 Mettle, all seventeen i500 Bozja weapons and most of the ARR/HW relics, and make your voice heard on the forums.
At least if you don't want this travesty to be repeated in 6.x.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

its so wild to me how people playing this game, which is an MMORPG, hate communication so much. "no fixed groups so we have to decide what groups are going where for split mechanics!"

just communicate in say and yell, use auto translate if necessary and be willing to adjust.

and really? complaining about a time limit? bruh you start with 20 minutes and you gain 10 - 20 minutes for every objective you clear. it should not take 20+ minutes to kill a boss with fewer mechanics than your average alliance raid boss, especially with access to items and actions that boost damage. most failed castrum runs i see fail at the first boss, because either top or bottom groups are just flat out unwilling to press dps buttons.

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None of the first part matters if you don't have the right amount of people becuase no one wants to do it in the instance, which is the whole point of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

None of the first part matters if you don't have the right amount of people becuase no one wants to do it in the instance, which is the whole point of this thread.

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I would agree with this if every post i see about "not enough people" is things like "only 20 people joined."

I've cleared with 16. I think you could technically do it with something like 12.

plus, in addition to all of the discord groups literally organizing castrum runs, there's always the option of forming a party finder group outside of bozja and then queueing in with a full party ready to do it.

so, the changes:


The following adjustments have been made to Save the Queen: Blades of Gunnhildr.
・ The drop rate for loathsome memories of the dying has been increased for critical engagements in the Bozjan southern front.
・ The drop rates for haunting memories of the dying and vexatious memories of the dying have been increased for FATEs in applicable areas.
・ The number of loathsome memories of the dying obtained upon completion of the critical engagement “The Battle of Castrum Lacus Litore” in the Bozjan southern front has been increased from 1 to 5.
・ The maximum number of Bozjan coins that can be obtained from personal spoils in the critical engagement “The Battle of Castrum Lacus Litore” in the Bozjan southern front has been increased from 26 to 100.
・ Completion of the critical engagement “The Battle of Castrum Lacus Litore” in the Bozjan southern front will now reward mettle and Allagan tomestones of revelation or experience points.
* Characters whose levels are 80 outside of the instance will receive Allagan tomestones of revelation, while characters below level 80 will receive experience points.



What do you think, enough to restore hope?