Ul'dahn Guisarme vs. Gerbald's Redspike

Howdy Folks,

Quick question; I'm about to hit 50 soon and before I get my hands on Ifrit's Harpoon or Melancholy Mogfork; which would be better to use:

Ul'dahn Guisarme:
Damage: 140
Delay: 3.7
Damage Type: Piercing
Other Abilities: Attack Power : +25, Accuracy : +15

or

Gerbald's Redspike
Damage: 142
Delay: 3.6
Damage Type: Piercing
Other Abilities: Attack Power : +40, Accuracy : -20

Does the +2 and +15AP really out weigh the -20 accuracy? I would love to save my seals for the Barding, but that can wait if needed.

If you think about it its actually -35 accuracy when compared to the uldahn guisarme.... base damage and attack power are pretty important for upping ws damage though and you can always full thrust/feint when you miss so i would say red spike just on that basis.

From what I've been reading, Strength in Numbers gives additional accuracy.

missing one ws gives a huge dps loss, and after doing testing with sibolds reach on war, its safe to say - acc weapons blow. you end up giving spots away for valuable stats to make up acc, and it just aint worth it considering how many low acc moves drg has.

Base damage is by far the most significant stat on a weapon, but on DRG, ACC is also incredibly important due to how Impulse Drive works. Since you can't guarantee receiving Minuet in any given situation, you'll want to be able to gear appropriately. Against bosses, you should shoot for 450-460+ base ACC (after gear, before food/party buffs). That will be incredibly hard to hit with Redspike, even with appropriate double melds and HQ accessories.

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Originally Posted by Squiggles

missing one ws gives a huge dps loss, and after doing testing with sibolds reach on war, its safe to say - acc weapons blow. you end up giving spots away for valuable stats to make up acc, and it just aint worth it considering how many low acc moves drg has.

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Cant really compare to WAR since DRG has reactive abilities when missing which if you are fast enough you can use both feint and heavy thrust if you miss and combo feint as well, which will make up for the most part the damage of the missed WS if you have the TP to use them both. Issue is missing is a lot more common now even without the -15 Acc. You might be better off shooting for an HQ Hart Gurisarm though been a while since I looked at one so not sure on what the damage is on the HQ version anymore.

Get a Hart Guisarme and Materia it, or better yet, a HQ Guisarme and Materia it. HQ Hart Guisarme has same base damage as Gerbald. On Masamune, I've seen HQ version went for 200k-300k. HQ mat to craft it also cost around that mark.

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Originally Posted by MariyaShidou

Get a Hart Guisarme and Materia it, or better yet, a HQ Guisarme and Materia it. HQ Hart Guisarme has same base damage as Gerbald. On Masamune, I've seen HQ version went for 200k-300k. HQ mat to craft it also cost around that mark.

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I did just that. Threw a +16 str materia in there. Thanks for all the help, everyone!

And to answer your question about Ifrit's vs Mog, I believe most will agree Ifrit's is just plain better.

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Originally Posted by Frein

And to answer your question about Ifrit's vs Mog, I believe most will agree Ifrit's is just plain better.

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Depends on how effective Crit Power/Rate Materia is :3....but from what I've heard it's not going to be effective enough.

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Originally Posted by Silvano

Depends on how effective Crit Power/Rate Materia is :3....but from what I've heard it's not going to be effective enough.

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I think it is running at about 30 crit rate = 2% gain, also I believe crit rate is capped at 25%. The ACC might be nice but I dont think it is worth the drop in base damage where as in this game base damage usually trumps all. There are other ways to boost ACC that will sacrifice less damage than the mog axe.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

I think it is running at about 30 crit rate = 2% gain, also I believe crit rate is capped at 25%. The ACC might be nice but I dont think it is worth the drop in base damage where as in this game base damage usually trumps all. There are other ways to boost ACC that will sacrifice less damage than the mog axe.

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30 crit rate= ~1% increase, against L45 enemies. It's most likely even less effective against L55+ but it hasn't been properly tested. Also, the crit rate cap is 20% but you can't hit it unless you significantly outlevel the enemy. Finally, crit damage has a floor at 115% that's calculated after your crit damage, so against a high level enemy you need a lot of +crit power before there is any effect at all. Once you get past the floor, the stat scales rather well (and caps at 175%), but it's still hamstrung by the low crit rate and inability to increase it.

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Originally Posted by Frein

30 crit rate= ~1% increase, against L45 enemies. It's most likely even less effective against L55+ but it hasn't been properly tested. Also, the crit rate cap is 20% but you can't hit it unless you significantly outlevel the enemy. Finally, crit damage has a floor at 115% that's calculated after your crit damage, so against a high level enemy you need a lot of +crit power before there is any effect at all. Once you get past the floor, the stat scales rather well (and caps at 175%), but it's still hamstrung by the low crit rate and inability to increase it.

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Thanks for the corrections.

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Originally Posted by Frein

30 crit rate= ~1% increase, against L45 enemies. It's most likely even less effective against L55+ but it hasn't been properly tested. Also, the crit rate cap is 20% but you can't hit it unless you significantly outlevel the enemy. Finally, crit damage has a floor at 115% that's calculated after your crit damage, so against a high level enemy you need a lot of +crit power before there is any effect at all. Once you get past the floor, the stat scales rather well (and caps at 175%), but it's still hamstrung by the low crit rate and inability to increase it.

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But this isnt a problem for DRG/LNC, all of our combos have a very high crit rate. I would say its basically a waste to add crit rate to drg because we are designed to crit quite often without it. Crit dmg is something DRG can make *great* use of, but this is hampered by the fact we need a shit-ton of accuracy as well. I'm actually going to stack crit dmg+acc and see how it goes.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

But this isnt a problem for DRG/LNC, all of our combos have a very high crit rate. I would say its basically a waste to add crit rate to drg because we are designed to crit quite often without it. Crit dmg is something DRG can make *great* use of, but this is hampered by the fact we need a shit-ton of accuracy as well. I'm actually going to stack crit dmg+acc and see how it goes.

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True but many DRG attacks, including AA, do not gain substantial crit rate bonuses, so it's hard to say if it's worth it even if you manage to push your crit power very high. Also, against L58 enemies, like Ifrit, the first 56 points of crit power are essentially wasted as they don't pull you above the crit damage floor. 56 is a lot as far as I'm concerned.

Now, you could make the case that most end game mobs aren't L58 and that Ifrit is an exception. Good King Moogle Mog XII is L57 and his henchmen only L55. We don't know what level Garuda is but I suspect she's not as high level as Ifrit, either.

Finally, I do believe Yoshi-P hinted at incoming DRG changes that would let them somehow utilize crits more.

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Originally Posted by Frein

True but many DRG attacks, including AA, do not gain substantial crit rate bonuses, so it's hard to say if it's worth it even if you manage to push your crit power very high. Also, against L58 enemies, like Ifrit, the first 56 points of crit power are essentially wasted as they don't pull you above the crit damage floor. 56 is a lot as far as I'm concerned.

Now, you could make the case that most end game mobs aren't L58 and that Ifrit is an exception. Good King Moogle Mog XII is L57 and his henchmen only L55. We don't know what level Garuda is but I suspect she's not as high level as Ifrit, either.

Finally, I do believe Yoshi-P hinted at incoming DRG changes that would let them somehow utilize crits more.

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Right, and those changes are primarily why I'm going to just go ahead with it. I'm not a crystal ball, but my guess is SE intended DRG to be a critgoon based on the weapon skills and traits. Of course stacking acc with more reliable stats would be a safer bet, but I like to go the adventurous route lol. I'm trusting SE will balance it properly so that it will be viable, if not optimal. It might be viable now i have no idea, I never bothered to try because my pockets aren't that deep.