Long lost paladin

so... I will lay it out plain and simple in hopes that someone has any kind of information to put forward. Put simply I want to become a successful paladin tank...which indeed sounds quite simple but for some reason i have yet to come across anything super straight forward...cut and dry...Before you blast me for posting this i did scour this forum for answers... what did i come up with? some information that seemed to point to mind being a solid stat allocation option... can anyone confirm this? If mind is indeed a good primary point allocation stat what is a good secondary? From looking at the AF armor on paladins it seems to be healing magic potency and mind for stats... In addition to wondering about those things another question seems to come up... what materia should i get? Other then that are there any other helpful tips on being or becoming a paladin? Thank you for your time and contribution to my knowledge and anyone else's who is in the same boat as me!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Still_Wind

so... I will lay it out plain and simple in hopes that someone has any kind of information to put forward. Put simply I want to become a successful paladin tank...which indeed sounds quite simple but for some reason i have yet to come across anything super straight forward...cut and dry...Before you blast me for posting this i did scour this forum for answers... what did i come up with? some information that seemed to point to mind being a solid stat allocation option... can anyone confirm this? If mind is indeed a good primary point allocation stat what is a good secondary? From looking at the AF armor on paladins it seems to be healing magic potency and mind for stats... In addition to wondering about those things another question seems to come up... what materia should i get? Other then that are there any other helpful tips on being or becoming a paladin? Thank you for your time and contribution to my knowledge and anyone else's who is in the same boat as me!

---

oh wow, where to start. Let me first start by saying, mastering PLD is gona be more work then mastering WAR as a tank, so long as you aren't lazzy or a cry baby its not impossable.

Lets begin with point alocation. I suppose it realy is based on your style of tanking, I love being a turtle/healing tank soo I always stack stats in this order of presidence

DEF > VIT > MIND > Healing magic potency > DEX/BLOCK/BLOCK RATE > HP

please keep in mind that for every two points of defense you should have 1 point of vit on a optimal setup. that being said def will still show a decrease in physical damage taken without the vit to , in a sense, unlock def stat's full potential. but if you have 700 def, and 200 vit only about 400 of your def is being used to its full potential, with 700 def you would want roughly 350 vit to see a more noticable difference in damage deflection. Mind is used on many things with pld but because of the frequency of use of the skills it affects its not as high on the totem as other people put it. Healing magic potency is more effective then mind on cures but i would imagine it has the same relationship with mind as def dose with vit. Now for the rest, dext dose increase block rate and probably shairs a relationship with the stat "block rate" that being said tho, with devine veil being soo awsome I would probably put the stat "block" higher on the totem then either block rate or dext. HP is nice when you can increase it but without the other stats its pretty much as useless as tits on a wart hog.

here is an example of gear I will typically wear on my PLD
[IMG]http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/...v/pldvswar.jpg[/IMG]

as far as abilities go....even with just 8+ enmity I dont have any issues keeping hate, it boils down to how a individual controls their charector, wich can be complicated or simplified simply by changing the controller in wich they interface with the game. I for one like the key board. once you get used to it, it is a much better interface then the controller. If you go with key board i recomend you set a "main bar" and a everything else that you use but you cant fit on that bar (wich is quiet a bit) you add to a macro bar. when using the keyboard , you simply hit the ctrl button to access your macro bars, if you memorize where each marco or action is set on both bars, you can easly cast everything in your arsenal and have time to spare.

As far as gear gose, get out of the AF, it looks great but is vertually useless when compaired to cobalt + materia. the crown may be the only peice i can recomend.

When it comes down to seting up your macros and action bars you need to learn not just the action descriptions , but also the traits , as many of gladiator's trait effect actions. for example: combine devine veil with out manevour and you get about (pending on how hard your getting hit) roughly 300-700+ mp regen as well as tp generation. or a well timed stone skin with sentinal and rampart and you pretty much negate some of the most fearsome attack in the game magic or physical. poping agieous boon right before a massive physical attack is , for lack of a better word, awsome. probably your best move in your entire arsenal. your 15 minute ability is great but because of its massive coold down, short duration and inability to defelct magic damage too, its uses are limited , but can be used to buy your healers some time in a clutch situation.

off the top of my head thats most of what comes to mind, if we were in a voice server channel I could go all day but start with that see if it helps

that seems like legitimate information can any one else confirm this? where or how do you get defense sorry i am a noob xD

You can succeed very well in AF gear. In fact, with the effect of the body, you're even more of an asset than if you were wearing cobalt/materia.

The hands are good as well, so keep those. Very little compares to the coronet and you'll want to keep the breeches and the hands for their effects. If you were hellbent on replacing a piece, you could replace the feet.

Even with AF, you'll still possess a high level of DEF with Protect and Knight Bread, and you will still benefit from the MP regen on the body, the powered up Holy Succor from the hands and the Divine Veil bonus on the breeches. I would not simply write these pieces off.

There are debates about whether or not you should stack DEF or HP or VIT and whatnot, and you can find plenty of arguments here in the GLA/PLD forums. However, realistically, you need all of it, and should make sure you don't neglect any of them.

MND affects many things, but most importantly, it effects the enmity of your Fast Blade > Flat Blade combo. It affects your healing power as well, but Healing Magic Potency will show you a greater increase.

In addition to this, your greatest combo is going to be either Divine Veil or Aegis Boon followed by Phalanx and Spirit's Within. SW deals excellent damage for a tank class, has a fair cooldown and increases your enmity when you combo it. This is your most powerful weapon/hate tool.

For info on VIT and Defense and how they work: http://kanican.livejournal.com/#asset-kanican-55915

So essentially putting points in vit and mind is good!? What about material? Healing potency!?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Still_Wind

So essentially putting points in vit and mind is good!? What about material? Healing potency!?

---

I'd say those are your top 2 stats for PLD. I mean MND boosts the enmity from one of your combos as well as your overall damage output on GLA/PLD. It also grants Healing Potency. The AF grants plenty of Healing Potency and I don't think pursuing more of it on PLD is worthwhile as the Gallant Gauntlets grant a 10% increase to the amount PLD heals with Holy Succor which will beat the effect of any healing you can realistically meld.

VIT is essentially Defense. It grants damage mitigation at a rate of about 2 DEF per 3 VIT as far as physical mitigation goes, but there are reports that VIT is also reducing damage from magical/elemental attacks unlike DEF. Further testing is needed for this but either way it is the defensive stat and worth getting more of.

so then if healing potency is fine what materia should i shoot for? has anyone heard anything on parry materia?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Still_Wind

so then if healing potency is fine what materia should i shoot for? has anyone heard anything on parry materia?

---

Can't parry when a shield is equipped anyway. I'd say the PLD AF is pretty much the best way to go. Except for sword and belt I'd shoot for +enmity materia. PLD can use all the enmity boosts it can get from materia, and they're buffing the values on them in the next patch too.

awesome thank you very much for your straight forward cut and dry approach xD i will get back to you on how all of this ends up working!

Yeah about that, you can't parry with a shield equipped. For some reason they decided to remove the ability to block and parry in 1.19 when they rebuilt the classes, and really I can only say it's hurt PLD considerably especially with the absence of block materia to help supplement that loss. (I am aware that block materia is coming up this update, I'm just pointing it out.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Still_Wind

awesome thank you very much for your straight forward cut and dry approach xD i will get back to you on how all of this ends up working!

---

You're welcome and good luck! It's definitely a different kind of job to play and not as straight-forward and easy a tank as WAR unfortunately, but it can be a lot of fun.

I gota disagree, PLD af dose have nice boosts but overall, as a turtle tank, offers far less then cobalt with materia. Healing yourself is nice and awsome when you can do it well, but its much better to have the def to not need the heals nearly as often. Also you will find the HP boosts with cobalt gear is higher as well as the vit/def boosts. Granted I have realy high stats due to double/triple melds on HQ gear but lesser gear is still better then AF. Personally I belive the reason alot of people have issues with tanking with PLD over WAR is because they are still using AF. This being said, enless you can score some realy decent gear soon, you may want to stick with af as it is free gear essentially, and new gear should be expected with 2.0 release in a few months. also, healing magic potency can be added to your helm and after the next patch, the feet aswell. block rate will soon be able to be added to the hands with the next patch too. all in all, crafted gear with materia x2 or more > AF gear.

Just a small correction, 2.0 isn't releasing in a few months. It's releasing closer to the end of the year. We have patches 1.22 at the end of this month and 1.23 sometime over the summer.

I'm fairly new to tanking, but one thing that has stood out to me (and seems to be forgotten/ignored) is that VIT boosts your enhancement magic, meaning your Stoneskin, Protect, etc and such are more powerful. Pair that with increased defense and it would seem you've got a very useful little stat on your hands. As a professional WHM i gotta say Stoneskin is the shizznit. Ill always, always choose SS over any other option, even healing, when its available. When I've stacked my WHMs VIT my SS is rock solid

..see what i did there? hehe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aceofspades

I gota disagree, PLD af dose have nice boosts but overall, as a turtle tank, offers far less then cobalt with materia. Healing yourself is nice and awsome when you can do it well, but its much better to have the def to not need the heals nearly as often. Also you will find the HP boosts with cobalt gear is higher as well as the vit/def boosts. Granted I have realy high stats due to double/triple melds on HQ gear but lesser gear is still better then AF. Personally I belive the reason alot of people have issues with tanking with PLD over WAR is because they are still using AF. This being said, enless you can score some realy decent gear soon, you may want to stick with af as it is free gear essentially, and new gear should be expected with 2.0 release in a few months. also, healing magic potency can be added to your helm and after the next patch, the feet aswell. block rate will soon be able to be added to the hands with the next patch too. all in all, crafted gear with materia x2 or more > AF gear.

---

Gallant Surcoat gives Enhanced Cover, which makes it so every time you incur damage while Cover is active whether by being hit directly or through the person who you covered taking damage, you regen MP. There is no other way to obtain this effect. The Gallant Surcoat also has a higher base Defense value than a Cobalt Cuirass.

Gallant Gauntlets give Enhanced Holy Succor, which is a 10% increase to the amount of HP it heals. Considering this skill is primarily meant to be used to heal party members, a greater heal value to that extent is invaluable. Healing others for more also means you heal more due to the 50% effect. The only thing I can see replacing this is the Block Rate materia coming in 1.22. Depending on how potent the effect turns out to be at endgame level, double melding those onto Sentinel Gauntlets may become the best option.

Gallant Cuisses have Enhanced Divine Veil, which very noticeably increases the amount of HP healed per tick from the Divine Regen that it gives off. This is the only way to increase how much HP Divine Regen heals.

Gallant Coronet has more Healing Magic Potency than a perfect tier IV materia and is thus desirable when coupled with it's other stats. Ultimately no big deal.

Gallant Sollerets can be replaced, and often are, by melded Sentinel Sabatons. Otherwise the Gallant Sollerets do provide extra Block Rate. Ultimately no big deal. The Sentinel Sollerets have a higher enmity effect on them as well so overall probably better in slot.

The Gallant Set as a whole provides an enmity boost of +15. Replacing the Sollerets with Sentinel Sabatons can increase this.

So just throwing out there that cobalt gear melded beats AF outright is silly and misguided. You also seem to emphasize Defense so much. I posted a link to some thorough testing earlier in this thread. I welcome everyone to check it out and decide for themselves how much they wish to weigh extra defense against other potential benefits. Just keep in mind endgame bosses tend to be about 10 levels above 50 so check the dLvl based graphs carefully.

"Gallant Surcoat gives Enhanced Cover, which makes it so every time you incur damage while Cover is active whether by being hit directly or through the person who you covered taking damage, you regen MP. There is no other way to obtain this effect. The Gallant Surcoat also has a higher base Defense value than a Cobalt Cuirass."

gld/pld has trait in wich outmaneuver gives MP as well as tp in acordance to damage taken. Take some time to further learn the job you wish to comment on, just a sugestion. oh and you can very easly add a meteria or two or hell even buy one with double stacked def on it for realativly cheap that would beat the Gallant Surcoat.


"Gallant Gauntlets give Enhanced Holy Succor, which is a 10% increase to the amount of HP it heals. Considering this skill is primarily meant to be used to heal party members, a greater heal value to that extent is invaluable. Healing others for more also means you heal more due to the 50% effect. The only thing I can see replacing this is the Block Rate materia coming in 1.22. Depending on how potent the effect turns out to be at endgame level, double melding those onto Sentinel Gauntlets may become the best option."

Healing magic potency and mind can esentially do the same thing, and you still get higher def, vit and hp stats on cobalt +1 >sentinal > NQ cobalt. I would have to disagree that the main purpose of holly succor is for healing party members, its simply a perk that makes it better then other self heals like second wind or blood bath. only down side to it is its mp cost and cast time :/

"Gallant Cuisses have Enhanced Divine Veil, which very noticeably increases the amount of HP healed per tick from the Divine Regen that it gives off. This is the only way to increase how much HP Divine Regen heals."

meh, regen ability on devine veil, while nice, is not better then having higher vit, def, and hp, plus the ability to add more stats to that via materia.... Simply put that buff dose not make up for the lack of stat boosts you can get with crafted gear.

"Gallant Coronet has more Healing Magic Potency than a perfect tier IV materia and is thus desirable when coupled with it's other stats. Ultimately no big deal."

I can agree with this to an extent. either cobalt+1 or sentinal celata with double/triple stacked healing magice potency would blow the crown outa the watter honestly the +def and a teir 4 mind materia from hq cobalt celata would be perferable over the crown.

"Gallant Sollerets can be replaced, and often are, by melded Sentinel Sabatons. Otherwise the Gallant Sollerets do provide extra Block Rate. Ultimately no big deal. The Sentinel Sollerets have a higher enmity effect on them as well so overall probably better in slot."

actually I am now using some new sabatons, green name, cant remeber off the top my head. but with new materia I will go back to HQ cobalt.

"So just throwing out there that cobalt gear melded beats AF outright is silly and misguided. You also seem to emphasize Defense so much. I posted a link to some thorough testing earlier in this thread. I welcome everyone to check it out and decide for themselves how much they wish to weigh extra defense against other potential benefits. Just keep in mind endgame bosses tend to be about 10 levels above 50 so check the dLvl based graphs carefully."

1) everything I equip , I test and parse several times, im kinda ocd about tanking. Everysingle time I increase vit or def, damage taken gose down, wiether it be Chimera, Ifrit, Princess, W/E .

2) the reason I put emphasize on def is because it works. No matter what the boss is, the largest number of damage taken always, ALWAYS comes for physical damage or normal attacks. and sense there is no stat in wich to stack to reduce all magic damage the only thing a tank can controll right now is how well he can deflect the normal attacks, wich again, is still the most damage taken on any boss atm

[QUOTE ] [/QUOTE ]

You can have this... Man that's hard to read like that.

Honestly Aceofspades.. I'm not gonna even bother with you anymore lol. You have your experiences, I have mine. Don't be so naive as to think you're the only one parsing and testing. i just linked people to in detail Defense and VIT testing so people can make up their own minds.

However, as a parting note let me clarify that I mentioned the enhanced cover as another tool to regain mp alongside outmaneuver.

Also before you go and try to tell someone to learn to play a job or w/e, first make sure you've got the experience to back it up. You haven't even cleared Cutter's Cry or Aurum Vale and you expect me to take you seriously talking about Chimera and Princess. I'm not even gonna bother pointing out the incorrect tidbits of information you're spewing out this time, because if your behavior on my thread is any measure of your conduct, you'll just disregard my pointing out your glaring holes and go on like a broken record anyway thinking you're sharing facts.

This thread should be stickied. It's the only useful, informative thread I've seen in the PLD topic so far! Thanks for the great info!

Haha, Outmaneuver being useful outside of being an enmity tool. Good one man. I think it has been shown that you need to take ridiculous amounts of damage before you get any worthwhile mileage out of the MP returns on it. If you want better MP regeneration, you're better off just going GLA and setting Stygian Spikes and Featherfoot. The addition of Enhanced Cover on the AF body piece is quite the godsend for PLDs, especially when they get BRDs that don't care to run close to the boss.