Eden Normal Personal Review (Hopefully no Spoilers)

For me this has to be the best raid story ending I've played. I love how it tied into main story and gave answers to some questions I had. It was also, even though it used some plot points from the game, a better story than the entirety of FF8, though that probably isn't hard.

So I just want to say thanks and good job to the person or persons that wrote the Eden story. I really enjoyed it. Hope the next raid story is just as good and also ties into the main story some how.

This tier def has my fav story too.
And I think that context did a lot to help me enjoy the raids more. I hadn't gotten into Savagr before, but at the beginning of ShB I saw E2N and felt I needed to know what it was like on Savage.

I'm with you OP.
It was very fun.

I hate how I’m only posting negatively today I’m not a troll I swear...

I’m very mixed on Eden... as a whole I have to say it’s better than Omega and on a par with Alexander.. but honestly the fanfic ending to the story is better for me than what they came up with.

I don’t know if we can talk spoilers here or not but I’m getting very tired of certain repetitive things they do in the story (the villain) and was hoping for more FF8 than just the music.

I liked the raids and the story was good as well. My only complaint is that one of the mechanics on the third one was kinda hard to see because of the amount of graphical effects on the screen. It's the first time I've had to resort to capturing a video and looking at it afterwards in order to figure out exactly what was going on. That would be expected in savage but the normal mode graphics could maybe be tuned to be a bit clearer. Nothing wrong with the mechanic itself.

I liked the story a lot, mostly because it was a continuation to the main story, and not some easy FF8 fan service.
I didn't like the last boss design though. So ugly compared to e8.
Fights were easy but fun.
Healer top is fabulous.
And the finale transition during the last cutscene is just magical.

Overall, it has been my favorite raid story by far, and I'll miss Ryne and Gaia a lot.

I was probably expecting too much.

Because it all kind of fell flat for me.

Last tier I remember all of my friends and I getting hyped in VC.

And all we did this round was complain during the cinematic bits in the last half and then go 'meh' once it was all over.

I'd give it a 6/10, personally.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

It was also, even though it used some plot points from the game, a better story than the entirety of FF8, though that probably isn't hard.

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At least in the 8 credits we got to see the after party INSTEAD OF THIS ULTIMATE FESTIVAL TEASE RYNE WAS GOING ON ABOUT! XD.

I do say the Omega storyline was a bit better than this one but this was still a fun ride.

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Originally Posted by Fal_Kearst

At least in the 8 credits we got to see the after party INSTEAD OF THIS ULTIMATE FESTIVAL TEASE RYNE WAS GOING ON ABOUT! XD.

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Who knows, maybe we'll get to see the festival yet. There could be some wrap-up quests in a later patch.

Apparently things inside a click to show thing don't count towards post length so I have to add this here.

Eh, I feel fairly cold about the entire raid.

The reinvention of primals and their themes fell flat for me.
I didn't really dig the whole teen besties story.
Mechanic wise, it was alright.
I didn't like Ryne and I liked Gaia less, they felt too cliche and it was really hard trying to feel something for them. I know there is a lot of anime tropes running on in FFXIV but i kinda think the moments where it shines best is when they avoid them and save themselves some awkwardness.
First time I head E12 theme it felt good, but it grew old on me.

And to be honest, while I genuinely liked most ShB stories, it has also given so far the most characters I dislike: Gaia, Zenos (i know he's from SB, but I think he deserves to be mentioned for not doing us the favor of staying dead since Stormblood), Fandaniel,...

And entering in spoiler territory

I didn't like the focus of the story moving from reviving the First to save Gaia from her obsessive Ascian ex. I kinda wished the last boss were more focused about the Light and all that.
I liked Loghrif more than Gaia's and she only gets one cutscene

Maybe it's the nostalgia kicking in, but I kinda prefer Coils or Alexander, despite having thought back in HW that the second raid wasn't up to snuff, something I've grown to rethink.

Compared to Eden, the NieR raid's plot seems to be getting better, despite there being some disconnection between the NieR setting and the dwarves' stories.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

I hate how I’m only posting negatively today I’m not a troll I swear...

I’m very mixed on Eden... as a whole I have to say it’s better than Omega and on a par with Alexander.. but honestly the fanfic ending to the story is better for me than what they came up with.

I don’t know if we can talk spoilers here or not but I’m getting very tired of certain repetitive things they do in the story (the villain) and was hoping for more FF8 than just the music.

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You're not the only one. I'm actually disappointed. Perhaps I was expecting more out of the story due to the hype (imo) it was leading up to. The reveal of the main villain was rather lackluster and I don't know....felt very rushed. As if the story beats just did not flow to what was being introduced and was suddenly put in there for the sake of a conclusion.

Sidenote:

MAYBE it is just me, but I felt like the bosses were WAY easier than the other raid tiers. I could have sworn that past raid tiers gave me more trouble than this one. I don't know. I'm mostly likely imagining it.

I'm probably being negative too. I mean, I enjoyed the fights and love the anesthetics of the final boss. But...I don't know. Just left a sour taste in my mouth.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

For me this has to be the best raid story ending I've played. I love how it tied into main story and gave answers to some questions I had. It was also, even though it used some plot points from the game, a better story than the entirety of FF8, though that probably isn't hard.

So I just want to say thanks and good job to the person or persons that wrote the Eden story. I really enjoyed it. Hope the next raid story is just as good and also ties into the main story some how.

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You are not alone. I ended the whole thing with a smile on my face. I also liked all normal mode fights.

I was very disappointed with the final battle. For a raid-finishing battle, it felt almost boring. I'm not talking about difficulty, I understand and am fine with this being easy.
This battle, however, was building up to some big payoff which simply never happened.

The "memory" phase was neat, and I fully expected some big form/music change after passing it... only for the battle to continue as it was before, same song, form, nothing changed. Very underwhelming.

To add insult to injury, now seeing first Savage parties reaching the extra phase, it could not be more obvious: The normal version was butchered in favor of the savage version.

The things, forms and music happening there are simply way too important to not feature in the story version. It's a far cry from other extra phases of other savage-only bosses, this is crucial to the story and also the exact thing that made the normal mode so boring: an actual payoff for all the buildup.
The way the music changes, the phase transition to this extra phase, everything just comes together in what makes FF XIV's battles so good.

I know it's way too late to change this now but, please SE. I understand you want to give savage raiders something cool extra, but this? You completely gutted the normal mode so raiders could have this.

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Originally Posted by Unease_Lemming

The "memory" phase was neat, and I fully expected some big form/music change after passing it... only for the battle to continue as it was before, same song, form, nothing changed. Very underwhelming.

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They likely saved that for the Savage version. The Omega and Eden raids all added new phases to the final fights of each tier. Golden Justice, Neo-Exdeath, God Kefka, Final Omega, Colossal Titan and Hresvelgr Shiva were all phases added exclusively to their Savage versions. Eden's Promise likely has its own special phase after the memories.

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Originally Posted by Novae

I liked the story a lot, mostly because it was a continuation to the main story, and not some easy FF8 fan service.
I didn't like the last boss design though. So ugly compared to e8.
Fights were easy but fun.
Healer top is fabulous.
And the finale transition during the last cutscene is just magical.

Overall, it has been my favorite raid story by far, and I'll miss Ryne and Gaia a lot.

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I really enjoy this raid tier & the story. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought this raid tier was EASY. I think i died 2 on E9, 1 time on E10 , & 0 times on E11 & E12.

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Originally Posted by Unease_Lemming

To add insult to injury, now seeing first Savage parties reaching the extra phase, it could not be more plain: The normal version was butchered in favor of the savage version.

The things, forms and music happening there are simply way too important to not feature in the story version. It's a far cry from other extra phases of other savage-only bosses, this is crucial to the story and also the exact thing that made the normal mode so boring: an actual payoff for all the buildup.
The way the music changes, the phase transition to this extra phase, everything just comes together in what makes FF XIV's battles so good.

I know it's way to late to change this now but, please SE. I understand you want to give savage raiders something cool extra, but this? You completely gutted the normal mode so raiders could have this.

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I just watched it, and that's a shame really. I was expecting to fight Gaia at some point in the story, and was really disappointed by the ugly door boss in e12n. The ending and the transition to the finale area made me forgot about it but now, seeing this makes me really sad. It would have added so much to the story.
So far, 5.4 has been a huge disappointment outside of eden, and it gets even worse now that I know this :/

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

They likely saved that for the Savage version. The Omega and Eden raids all added new phases to the final fights of each tier. Golden Justice, Neo-Exdeath, God Kefka, Final Omega, Colossal Titan and Hresvelgr Shiva were all phases added exclusively to their Savage versions. Eden's Promise likely has its own special phase after the memories.

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It does, but hot damn does this new transition feel relevant to the overall narrative; not just another new form that makes me go "neat."

This doesn't make me want to do Savage...

Just makes me think, "wow...that REALLY should have been in Normal." Feels way more complete than the transition we ended up with.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

They likely saved that for the Savage version. The Omega and Eden raids all added new phases to the final fights of each tier. Golden Justice, Neo-Exdeath, God Kefka, Final Omega, Colossal Titan and Hresvelgr Shiva were all phases added exclusively to their Savage versions. Eden's Promise likely has its own special phase after the memories.

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He clearly understands that, and even mentioned it and that is entirely the point being made. Normal mode raids were a result of people feeling left out of the story/battles from the days of Coil. With normal mode we were supposed to be getting similar experiences, just one slightly harder than the other, with savage having the better loot options. SE is now increasingly going back to being exclusionary with these raid battles. This one stands out in particular because of how thematically linked it is to the rest of the fight, and the story of Eden. Its one thing to design the EX/Savage fight first then "dumb it down" for normal. Its entirely different to delete entire phases, with different models, animations, music, and events from fights and lock them to only the top 1-5% of players.



EX trials for a long time have mostly gotten this right. There is a clear difference in the mechanics and the flows of these fights compared to the normal ones, but they don't make the players feel like they have missed anything. This final Eden fight has taken it to another level and the concern is this is going to lead right back into a coil situation and the majority of players are going to be missing out on experiences in this game simply because they don't have the skill, time, or are lucky enough to have the support of friends/groups capable of completing savage content. Most (not all) top tier raid capable players are typically the type that only care about the difficulty, not the story, the cut scenes, the themes, or the spectacle. Why SE is catering to these players with exclusive themes is mind boggling. I get it, harder content should be rewarding, but not at the expense of treating "lesser players/casuals/normies" as undeserving of seeing the work put into entire phases of fights. Dumb them down, make them easier whatever you want to call it, don't delete it in front of everyone face.

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Originally Posted by Unease_Lemming

I was very disappointed with the final battle. For a raid-finishing battle, it felt almost boring. I'm not talking about difficulty, I understand and am fine with this being easy.
This battle, however, was building up to some big payoff which simply never happened.

The "memory" phase was neat, and I fully expected some big form/music change after passing it... only for the battle to continue as it was before, same song, form, nothing changed. Very underwhelming.

To add insult to injury, now seeing first Savage parties reaching the extra phase, it could not be more obvious: The normal version was butchered in favor of the savage version.

The things, forms and music happening there are simply way too important to not feature in the story version. It's a far cry from other extra phases of other savage-only bosses, this is crucial to the story and also the exact thing that made the normal mode so boring: an actual payoff for all the buildup.
The way the music changes, the phase transition to this extra phase, everything just comes together in what makes FF XIV's battles so good.

I know it's way too late to change this now but, please SE. I understand you want to give savage raiders something cool extra, but this? You completely gutted the normal mode so raiders could have this.

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I disagree. The Savage-only part fits the theme of a fake rendition of the actual fight where people's imagination of how an event should have transpired adds more to the event to make it more complete to them.

In reality, the fight is only about the union of the two, not the Savage-only form.

I disagree for three reasons (and I'm not a savage raider):

- Normal mode is cannon, savage is not.

- That extra phase and ultimate are the only two things they get. Sound more like they are second-class citizens than us.

- Overtime, anyone will have the ability to out level and over-gear those fights, having access to said content and their rewards.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

- Normal mode is canon, savage is not.

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Just to elaborate on this, savage mode is explained in-universe as Eden's memories which are somewhat altered and embellished compared to what actually happened. When you enter a savage raid it's kinda like lucid dreaming. The events feel real for you but have no effect on the world. How you are able to get real loot from it I don't know.

IIRC the same explanation is used for revisiting most other duties after completing them for the story, only this time they're your own memories. And you have photographic memory so everything is exactly the same as the first time.

The lore given behind the Flood of Light was interesting, but that's the best thing I can say about it I think. Overall a very easy raid tier on normal, I've wiped more times on launchday E4 than this entire tier.

Find it odd that the concept behind E10 was the same as O10.

Also has the Ivalice syndrom, nothing about the end boss before the last part, making it feel disconnected. That's something the other 8-man raids did well, we knew(more or less) that we would be facing Bahamut, Alexander and Omega.

Also watching the twitch stream, the savage exclusive phase looks very story specific, much more so than any other savage phase I've seen before.

I enjoyed the fights but the part of the story with Gaia that got revealed at the end I felt was fine but was like all of a sudden. I liked the fights but I'm getting annoyed of the ones that have long sections of nothing for cinamatic purposes.

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Originally Posted by Koroem

He clearly understands that, and even mentioned it and that is entirely the point being made.

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They edited their post to include that part 30 minutes after I responded.

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Originally Posted by linayar

In reality, the fight is only about the union of the two, not the Savage-only form.

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I can agree with this, but I maintain that the battle simply feels unfinished. If after the memory phase we'd return to new music, or an altered arena, that alone might have helped make the battle feel complete.
It's the same reason last tier's Shiva battle felt fine even in Normal mode, the new music after coming back from adds phase plus the cutscene near the end made the battle still feel very involving. That's just completely missing from e12.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

They edited their post to include that part 30 minutes after I responded.

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I edited a typo'd "to" to "too" and a "plain" to "obvious", nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

I enjoyed the fights but the part of the story with Gaia that got revealed at the end I felt was fine but was like all of a sudden. I liked the fights but I'm getting annoyed of the ones that have long sections of nothing for cinamatic purposes.

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I think the overall writing is awkward. The first tier feels like they didn't finish Gaia's model in time, so she is only in E2 and then nothing happens. Which makes tier 2 rushing a bit on the development Ryne and Gaia's relationship. And the third tier just fell flat for me because at that time I did not care anymore for anything. The shifted the focus on the Empty (which was intereseting) to Gaia (which isn't as fascinating). I am also very disappointed in the explanation of the fairy.

I literally told myself when Eden came out "Oh that's great for once, the big baddies aren't Ascian related. Nice change". I'm afraid the "It was Ascians after all" starts getting old

Gameplay-wise, I think E9 is fine and should be the benchmark for normal raid difficulty. It's hard enough and punishing if you don't get the obvious mechanic. E10 is okay I guess. E11 is as disappointing as E7. E12 is bad, for me the worst final fight in raids. Too easy, too long, another godamn intermission phase with no relelvant gameplay attached.
Definitely, Eden is the weakest raid for me.
I just started savage so I don't know about this yet.

Music and visuals were top tier at least!

I am going to be honest. I found the story mehish almost somewhat forced compared to early bits of the eden story. But the raid fight themselves, this was way way to easy and I felt actually pretty damned disappointed.

Also is it just me or does e12s looks like something you’d find in Shin Megami Tensei or Persona games?

Legit think it’s just me.

That extra bit in the savage raid isn’t important to the story as the savage raids don’t actually happen in the story just the normal one.

So maybe they just didn’t want that to be part of the canon story.

But at this point I wish they’d gone with the predictable Griever/Ultimecia storyline which would be better than what we got.

Some of the ideas were interesting, like E11's boss, but overall I wasn't terribly thrilled to find that it was just Ascians all along again.

Also, I really hope we get to visit the festival they kept talking about. Make it an extra quest in 5.5, like this patch's role quests. And give us Gaia's hair style as a reward.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

but overall I wasn't terribly thrilled to find that it was just Ascians all along again.

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Really?
That was the best part for me.
It wasn't some new ooga-booga they would have needed to establish and give context for at the 11th hour.
Instead it was used to show a new side to the Ascians and make them a rounder group.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Really?
That was the best part for me.
It wasn't some new ooga-booga they would have needed to establish and give context for at the 11th hour.
Instead it was used to show a new side to the Ascians and make them a rounder group.

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I didn't mind it I guess, since it was like you said...it showed another side to Ascians that we hadn't seen up to that point. It showed us that they were no different from everyone else at the end of the day, in that they had passions, hopes and dreams, and could forge strong connections with one another. We already knew this since it was mentioned in Amaurot, and through Emet-Selch to some degree, but it was neat seeing it first hand. But on the flip side I wasn't expecting more Ascians because we had already dealt with them enough, and we continue to do so in the MSQ. And yet here's another one. It was sort of jarring for me. As far as Ascians go I guess their backstories aren't half bad though.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Really?
That was the best part for me.
It wasn't some new ooga-booga they would have needed to establish and give context for at the 11th hour.
Instead it was used to show a new side to the Ascians and make them a rounder group.

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Why did it need to be a new enemy when we already had Eden and the dark fairy? Either of them could've been fleshed out as something else. Just making them an Ascian again feels cheap when Ascians are already behind 90% of the conflicts in the game anyway. Compared to Alexander (which had an Ascian in the backstory, but the driving villain was Quickthinx) or Omega (zero Ascian involvement at all), it feels underwhelming to just come back to the same ol' same ol' out of nowhere.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Really?
That was the best part for me.
It wasn't some new ooga-booga they would have needed to establish and give context for at the 11th hour.
Instead it was used to show a new side to the Ascians and make them a rounder group.

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In my opinion it’s just unoriginal at this point. Like they really don’t know what to do with the world and characters if they don’t have an Ascian as a villain. Raids generally are our break from this where we get something new and original.

Plus we’ve already had the best Ascians so unless they’re going to do another expansion boss one everyone else will fall flat. They’re becoming like the organisation in KH, I will always remember Lahabrea and the two from the end of SHB, but these new ones not so much.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Why did it need to be a new enemy when we already had Eden and the dark fairy? Either of them could've been fleshed out as something else. Just making them an Ascian again feels cheap when Ascians are already behind 90% of the conflicts in the game anyway. Compared to Alexander (which had an Ascian in the backstory, but the driving villain was Quickthinx) or Omega (zero Ascian involvement at all), it feels underwhelming to just come back to the same ol' same ol' out of nowhere.

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E9 was cool. Replace E10 with E11. Replace E11 with Griever. Replace E12 with Ultimecia Gaia/Eden.

Ending could have been the exact same almost. It becomes a proper FF8 raid with more than just music and they can keep Ascians in the MSQ where they belong.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

E9 was cool. Replace E10 with E11. Replace E11 with Griever. Replace E12 with Ultimecia Gaia/Eden.

Ending could have been the exact same almost. It becomes a proper FF8 raid with more than just music and they can keep Ascians in the MSQ where they belong.

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I think my only gripe was that we didn't get a remake of Liberi Fatali. Not a huge deal breaker, I mean, I can listen to it whenever I want. But I feel it was a really big missed opportunity. Would have been PERFECT for E11.

On normal.

First boss: Not so bad but it feels really tedious to me.

Second boss: I'm not a fan of the shadow mechanic, there seems to be some inconsistency in the direction it's "facing" during the reflection.

Third boss: Mostly fine, I'm not a fan of the fog mechanic not revealing the telegraph like the mist dragon.

Fourth boss: Totally caught me offguard and not what I expected it to be. As for the mechanics themselves? Pretty much fine I suppose. Felt too similar to Shiva to me because the junction/stock felt way too similar to the mirror mechanic to me.

As for the story itself? Completely caught me offguard, I did NOT expect that in the slightest. I had a few theories of course but absolutely none of them were even remotely close to what the plot actually was.