I'm going to try to keep this general (and somewhat short) to, hopefully, prevent the core idea here from getting lost in nitpicking specifics. Feel free to discuss specific ideas in replies, of course.
I've been playing some different jobs, and of those one thing especially stood out about the (non-healer) casters.
How smooth they play. How little they need to clip (if ever). How everything flows together smoothly - even for the pet caster, when pets are thought to be one of the more awkward things to control in FF14. They're all mobile - even black mage, relatively speaking - and can all weave. Venturing out even further, even that certain tank-caster just plays so smoothly and its kit works so well together.
Are healers entirely absent of this? Well, no, not entirely. Though saying this will likely provide a bit controversial here - I've been playing AST more since the most recent mini-rework. And, holy sheet does it play nicely - not to mention, offer a lot more than spamming one nuke so much. Just as I was starting to drift away from healing entirely, this has been rekindling my interest and fun I have with it.
So, 6.0 is on the horizon. But, I hope, it's not too late for suggestions to be heard/implemented.
I'd like for healers - all healers - to get the same attention towards refining their gameplay - towards making them play smoothly and naturally - that DPS casters get. Probably the best direction is one similar to AST (but I'm sure there will be ideas to improve AST's flow as well).
As is, well... I'm finding myself drifting further and further from playing healers regularly (I know I know, no one cares : P) - with the exception of my current AST binge, but I'm not sure how long that will last - simply because of how much better it feels to use a kit that plays naturally, than feel like I'm fighting with it. So I would love to see healers get the same sort of refinement, and I hope I'm not alone.
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11-24-2020, 05:14 PMRisvertasashiHealers and 6.0; What we can learn from AST and what I'd like to see going forward
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11-24-2020, 09:30 PMCeasaria
Not agree, we don't need more homogenization.
AST smooth gameplay with the 1,5s cast time is for his use of cards (and was already there since 4.3)
I know everyone want this for WHM, but I would go for a BLM treatment.
Both were compared before as a raw powerful job. I think WHM should follow the BLM path and have more tools to deal with movement, that's it
Why not a water ability where you can do a quick dash on a line and doing damages ? Even rework the Presence of Mind to have a kinda Leylines maybe if it can please people.
SCH should function the same as before, Fairies skills independent from SCH toolkit, so we don't have a tons of oGCD to throw (and so reducing largely the use of Ruin II).
One of the idea I like from me, is having an ability upgrading Medecine into Science (instant heal) and when using it, it transforms into Steel (instant damage), and vice-versa for 15sec.
So it adds a bit more instants, gives interest to Medecine, use the lore of SCH, innovate the healer and healing gameplay (interaction between skills, rotation changes, etc). -
11-25-2020, 12:09 AMLiam_HarperDisagree. Smooth gameplay is not a class identity and removing atrocities such as forced clipping, immobility, damage leaking and ghosting is not homogenization. DNC, BLM or SMN all play very differently for example, but all have smooth flowing gameplay that clicks together. They're not homogenized because they don't clip or feel clunky to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceasaria
It doesn't have to be AST's 1.5s cast (although it would be nice because it feels great to play), but giving WhM the BLM treatment is much more than a random line dash. BLM has Triplecast, teleport, Between the lines and far more weave windows without sacrificing anything while WhM has a far smaller handful of weaves and has to sacrifice healing tools to move with them. -
11-25-2020, 01:59 AMQooEr
theres other ways to let healers have weave spots or smooth gameplay. think if white mage's dots had a proc like thundercloud, or if scholars had something like ruin iv so that theyre not so averse to using ruin ii. having another instant or low cast time dots would also free up weave spots for both of them.
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11-25-2020, 04:39 AMAnotherPerson
Agree that clipping needs to be fixed.
Disagree that all healers should receive a 1.5 sec cast time on their main DPS GCD spell.
I don't want all the healers to play the same with a 1.5 sec cast time DPS spell. The reason why AST has that is because they also have cards in addition to their oGCD healing, so they need their weaving on every GCD to give a card at the best time for optimizing their card usage.
The way for WHM to have smooth gameplay is giving them weave windows - but this can be done by taking advantage of their GCD and MP economy by allowing their GCD healing to be treated as a more complicated oGCD heal. This can be done by 2 ways - one way is similar to misery where GCD healing abilities eventually pays the cost back with a strong DPS spell. The second is disabling their GCD DPS skill with a debuff for #X GCDs and giving the same DPS output that WHM could have done as a buff to another player for #X hits - like how Nin's Bunshin currently works - this frees up WHM to GCD heal and oGCD heal without DPS issues and gives them room to move around. The time locked away from DPSing also ensures MP is gained back and coupled with Thin Air + Assize, WHM's ridiculously strong MP economy will do just fine.
For SCH, Ruin II can prevent a lot of clipping, but using Ruin II is already a DPS loss compared to their nuke when used for weaving. Consistently using it to use healing skills means a huge sustained DPS loss overall. Unlike WHM with Afflatus Misery, SCH has no way to play catch up with the DPS loss depending on how the party performs. Aetherflow healing is very costly because using Aetherflow healing means you lose an Energy Drain (which gives +500 MP and makes Ruin II not a DPS loss). While Energy Drain should be used as a way to dump excess aetherflow, it also affects SCH's MP - which means SCH's MP economy is directly tied to the performance of the party - a party that doesn't dodge mechanics means less MP overall since SCH will have to use more aetherflow healing as opposed to Energy Drain (which gives the +500 MP per energy drain). This is in contrast to WHM and AST where Assize, Draw, Sleeve Draw, and Thin Air do not share a resource or cooldown to use. While I think having energy drain is a great way to dump excess aetherflow, Energy Drain currently restoring MP also inherently hurts SCH since it affects SCH's total potential MP regenerated based on party performance.
The less costly option would be to use Faerie skills, but it's still a DPS loss since Faerie skills require the use of at least 1 Ruin II to weave and some skills cannot be used back to back, making the SCH require multiple uses of Ruin II. Sometimes Faerie skills will also ghost or get consumed without activating (ex: using whispering dawn and then dissipation because dissipation erases the faerie before whispering dawn activates due to pet delay).
I don't think Ruin II is the issue here since there should be some form of limiting factor to prevent too much mobility for any one healer for optimal play. I believe the issue is how SCH's faerie skills and aetherflow skills work as a whole. I rather see SCH's faerie skills be independent from the SCH toolkit - something similar to the pets [Place] and [Heel] Actions being able to be used independently from SCH. As for the MP issue, I rather they adjusted/expanded on the SCH's Aetherflow gauge as well. Maybe give SCH 2 types of aetherflow gauges - the old ACN aetherflow that uses Energy Drain to gain 2 aetherflow stacks for DPS, and the current Aetherflow ability on SCH that gives 3 stacks for healing actions. The ACN energy drain + 2 aetherflow can be used for DPS actions and make Ruin II a feasible tool for mobility and for weaving. ACN Energy Drain can also get a trait that gives MP when using it. Meanwhile, excess Aetherflow on SCH's Aetherflow skill can give faerie gauge before being replaced with 3 new aetherflow stacks or be moved over into the ACN's aetherflow gauge. -
11-25-2020, 09:05 AMRaikai
Before I had this idea that WHM's "utility" should be added selfish dps, much as in a BLM mentality. But honestly after reading feedback on this, it's not ideal, simply because having extra DPS would basically make WHMs required, especially on high end fights where healers are expected to have a steady amount of personal dps as well. And as they are right now, of their bonus being just the extra healing... That also doesn't work because it's too much overhealing.
I think they need to introduce an utility niche to WHMs. Perhaps with the inevitable addition of a fourth healer, they can rebalance the utility each brings, while also revisiting their gameplay. I honestly believe they will clap back to healers having a more complex dps rotation once more. The thing I loathe right now is that every healer follows the same copypaste Nuke + Dot formula. -
11-25-2020, 04:51 PMglamazon
Yeah healer is pretty bad. When I need a fox I can go play Druid on wow.
Just give all three healers different ways of accomplishing the same thing. That’s the identity people want.
How can they get it so right with dps but fail so utterly with healers? -
11-27-2020, 10:41 AMMPNZ
In general: Please, like, shape jobs by their themes/identity and lore around them better. A lot of what was thrown out was lore and their individuality as jobs. And, that extends to the Ranged Physical DPS, which went the opposite direction of stormblood bard's success (machinist feels unfinished but good, dancer does a lot of things but I totally can't understand what it's does, and Bard feels like they just don't really understand what they made or are afraid of it and just keep trying to make abilities for a ranger which they should just totally make already). Ast is totally playing the Balance only with zero time/space abilities, WHM is just recycling abilities and is really boring (they also didn't think about how the spells like glare should have been like "the first" exclusives with upgraded stone and aero spells on the source for lore purposes), and SCH still doesn't feel like a tactitian to me
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12-03-2020, 03:21 PMKyeria
I hate to sound stupid, but can someone explain to me what "Clipping" means in terms of gameplay mechanics? People keep saying that the clipping for healers is bad but I'm not following lol.
I'm assuming we're not talking about graphical clipping...right? -
12-03-2020, 04:28 PMRein_eon_OsborneAs an example, let’s take a look at how generic WHM starts a boss battle in first 10s. In first case, let’s assume the WHM is not using any oGCD. Most likely they would do something like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyeria
Glare —> Dia —> Glare —> Glare
Glare has the same cast time as its GCD duration
Dia is an instant cast but counted as a spell, hence keeps the GCD rolling (notice how the hotkey bar also telling you which skills are greyed out for that 2.5s duration as well). What we get here is, a WHM rolling a successful 4 GCDs without clipping.
Now second case: let’s add oGCD usage to the mix.
You will know a skill is an oGCD when the tooltip describes your tool as an ‘ability’ instead of ‘weaponskill’ or ‘spell’. These are the skills that are not greyed out while the default 2.5s GCDs are rolling & have instant casts as well, hence usable in said moments.
Do you see now where it’s ideal to use those abilities within first 10s? Exactly. Right after Dia cast when your GCD is rolling but you can move around, not locked in casting stance, thus maximizing the actions done within the first 10s.
Those ‘instants’ however are not an actual instants due to animation lock. These animation locks out character from casting any other actions, which give or take has about 0.7s duration depending on the players’ connection. Few exceptions that lasts longer exists. In the end, the first 10s rotation will look something like this:
Glare —> Dia + Assize + Divine Benison —> Glare —> Glare.
Glare = 2.5s cast
Dia = 2.5s instant & 0.7s animation lock
Assize = 0.7s animation lock
Divine Benison = 0.7s animation lock
Now moving on to clipping... The possible ways for this WHM 'clip' are:
1. Performing an oGCD after any Glares (swiftcasted are exception);
2. Adding the third oGCD after that Divine Benison;
3. Bad internet, prolonging the animation lock.
Any of these actions will cause this WHM’s GCD to stop rolling constantly and suddenly, their last Glare cast won’t go off within 10s. It will probably go off in 11s or later depending on how bad the clipping they had caused.
Basically, “Clipping” means using an oGCD (or literally any actions that doesn’t get your GCD rolling) while your GCD is idle. You are delaying yourself off from potentials casts by being locked in those few seconds of animations, unable to get your next GCD rolling. Over the course of an encounter, these small drifting can adds up to some potential missed casts. -
12-03-2020, 04:30 PMKabooaAll actions have animation lock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyeria
Think of your GCD as a box that's somewhat filled. That's the GCD's animation lock.
[XX ----]
if the GCD is instant cast, that empty space can be filled with OGCDs without impacting your ability to do another GCD action.
[XX ZZZ] Where Z is the space your OGCD animation lock takes.
Clipping refers to the inability to work around an Action's animation lock without impacting your ability to do another GCD.
[XX ----][XX ----][XX ----][XX ----] You want it to look like this, or
[XX ZZZ][XX ZZZ][XX ZZZ][XX ZZZ]
For casters, who have both a cast time and an animation lock, the length of the cast time directly impacts their ability to use off-GCDs without impacting their next GCD.
[XXXXX Z]ZZ
Each time you clip, your next GCD is delayed, and over time, you end up "losing" the benefit of that particular GCD.
[XXX ZZZ] [XXX ZZZ] [XXX ZZZ] [XX ZZZ] - Ideal, compared to
[XXXXX Z]ZZ [XXXXX Z]ZZ [XXXXX Z]ZZ -
12-03-2020, 07:53 PMAnotherPersonTo add onto what the previous two people have saidQuote:
Originally Posted by Kyeria
Essentially Clipping multiple times is prolonging the use of the next GCD due to animation lock on the current oGCD skill. This translates into lost casts throughout an encounter. Kabooa's example is pretty much what clipping is, but I'll elaborate what GCD and oGCDs are too.
When you use a skills, sometimes there will be other skills that you haven't used go on cooldown for a brief moment before they are available to be used again. That means those skills are on the GCD.
A GCD is a skill that shares a global cooldown - generally this cooldown is 2.5 seconds before the next skill that shares a global cooldown can be used. This is without spell or skill speed modifiers. GCDs may have their own cooldown in addition to a global cooldown.
Examples of GCDs are:
Cure I, Cure II, Benefic I, Benefic II, Physick, Regen, Aspected Benefic, Adloquium, Stone, Glare, Broil, Dia, Combust, Bio, Malefic, Medica, Medica II, Succor, Aspected Helios, Helios, Afflatus Solace, Afflatus Rapture, Afflatus Misery, Art of War, Raise, Ascend, Resurrection, Shadow Fang
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An Instant GCD means a skill that is on the global cooldown and can be used instantly, but still requires you to wait the global cooldown before using the next skill with the global cooldown. This is why White Mages cannot cast 3 Afflatus Solace or Afflatus Rapture in 2 seconds even if they have 3 lilies ready and the spell is instant cast. The global cooldown prevents them from doing so, so there is a wait period between casts.
Examples of Instant GCDs are:
Regen, Aspected Benefic, Dia, Combust, Bio, Ruin II, Afflatus Solace, Afflatus Rapture, Afflatus Misery, Art of War
oGCDs are skills that do not share a global cooldown. They can be used without having the 2.5 second wait on all skills that share this timer. These skills have their own cooldown timer associated with them. However, like all skills, they are also subject to an animation lock - so you won't be able to use another skill immediately while you are in animation lock. This animation lock is usually 0.7 seconds. Some are longer - such as Red Mage's Displacement - because you can't also do anything while you are dashing backwards, resulting in a 1.1 second animation lock.
Examples of oGCDs are:
Benediction, Essential Dignity, Lustrate, Indomitability, Celestial Opposition, Tetragammaton, Divine Bension, Assize, Emergency Tactics, Deployment Tactics, Aetherflow, Energy Drain, Lucid Dreaming
While some oGCD skills are weaker that GCD skills, their inherent advantage is that they can be used between GCD skills, thus making them beneficial to use even if they are weak since there would be no downsides to using it. GCD skills are the only skills that have an associated cooldown between multiple skills in addition to their own cooldown in order to be used, so the idea is to use oGCD skills between the GCD skills so you can repeatedly use GCD skills continuously. This is how healers who need to burst heal can keep their GCD rolling while using multiple skills to get the maximum output in a small timeframe without losing casts and how Ninja bursts an enemy down with multiple uses of their oGCD skills per GCD within their Trick attack window.
Example of a GCD with oGCD usage:
Say a box [ XXX(#)--XXX(#)--XXX(#)--(#)] represents a GCD, around 2.5 seconds of time, XXX is a skill, and the (#) in the box represents the duration of that time.
For White Mages:
[ Afflatus Solace (0.7) -- Tetragammaton (1.4) -- Divine Bension(2.1)-- (2.5)] [Glare(0.7)----Glaring(1.4)-------Glare Done(2.5)] ====== total time 5 seconds with 2 GCDs and 4 total skills used in that timeframe.
[Dia(0.7)---Swiftcast(1.4)--Plenary Indulgence(2.1)--(2.5)][Medica II(0.7)---Assize(1.4)--Lucid Dreaming(2.1)--(2.5)] ====== total time 5 seconds with 2 GCDs and 6 total skills used in that timeframe.
[Afflatus Rapture(0.7)--Swiftcast(1.4)--Thin Air(2.1)--(2.5)][Raise(0.7)--Tetragrammaton(1.4)--Assize(2.1)--(2.5)] ====== total time 5 seconds with 2 GCDs and 6 total skills used in that timeframe.
For Astrologians:
[Malefic(0.7)--done(1.5)--Celestial Opposition(2.2)--(2.5)][Malefic(0.7)---done(1.5)--Essential Dignity(2.2)--(2.5)] ==== total time 5 seconds with 2 GCDs and 4 total skills used in that timeframe.
[Malefic(1.5)--Lightspeed(2.2)--(2.5)][Malefic(0.7)--Celestial Intersection(1.4)--Draw(2.1)--(2.5)][Malefic(0.7)--Play(1.4)--Horoscope(2.1)--(2.5)] === total time 7.5 seconds with 3 GCDs and 8 total skills used in that timeframe.
For Scholars:
[Biolysis(0.7)--Aetherflow(1.4)--Chain Strategem(2.1)--(2.5)][Ruin II(0.7)--Sacred Soil(1.4)----(2.1)---(2.5)] === total time 5 seconds with 2 GCDs and 5 total skills used in that timeframe.
[Broil(0.7)---Broiling(1.4)--Broiling Done(2.5)][Ruin II(0.7)--Aetherflow(1.4)--Swiftcast(2.1)--(2.5)][Broil(0.7)--Recitation(1.4)---Excogitation(2.1)--(2.5)] == total time 7.5 seconds with 3 GCDs and 7 total skills used in that timeframe.
Example of a GCD no oGCD usage:
[Medica II(0.7)---casting(1.4)---casting(2.1)-done(2.5)][Afflatus Rapture(0.7)---done(1.4)---(2.1)--(2.5)] ====== total time 5 seconds with 2 GCDs and 2 total skills used in that timeframe.
[Aspected Helios(0.7)---casting(1.4)--done(2)--(2.5)][Benefic I(0.7)---done(1.5)--(2.2)--(2.5)][Benefic II(0.7)---casting(1.4)--done(2)--(2.5)] === total time 7.5 seconds with 3 GCDs and 3 total skills used in that timeframe.
[Succor(0.7)--casting(1.4)---done(2)--(2.5)][Adloquium(0.7)---casting(1.4)--done(2)--(2.5)][Broil(2.5)]=== total time 7.5 seconds with 3 GCDs and 3 total skills used in that timeframe.
Weaving oGCDs between GCDs allow a lot of healing without sacrificing time, eventually letting you cast more of the heavier GCDs that don't allow weaving in that time period, resulting in more potency for both healing and for damaging enemies in the course of the encounter. However, if you start to clip too much to use your oGCD, you essentially lose a GCD skill that you could have fit there in that timeframe. What that means is that you could lose a GCD by using oGCDs, causing oGCD skills to not be free since it costed you a GCD to use it. This eventually bleeds into less healing output and less damage output in the course of the encounter.
Examples of Clipping: Clipped skills in Italics
[Glare (2.5][Dia(0.7)--Assize(1.4)--Lucid Dreaming(2.1)--Plen]ary Indulgence(2.8)[Medica II(2.5)] ==== total time 7.8 seconds with 3 GCDs and 6 total skills used in that timeframe.
[Broil(2.5)][Adloquium(2)--Emer]gency Tactics(2.7)[Adloquium(2)--Reci]tation(2.7)[Adloquium(2)--Deplo]yment Tactics(2.7) === total time 10.6 seconds with 4 GCDs and 6 total skills used in that timeframe.
[Malefic(1.5)--Draw(2.2)--P]lay(2.9) [Aspected Helios(2)--Celestial] Opposition(2.7)[Malefic(2.5)] ===== total time 5.6 seconds with 2 GCDS and 5 skills used in that timeframe.
[Malefic(1.5)--Draw(2.2)--P]lay(2.9)--Neutral Sect(3.6)[Aspected Helios(2)--Essential] Dignity(2.7) === total time 6.3 seconds with 2 GCDs and 6 skills used in that timeframe.
Although the effect of clips may seem small, such as 0.6 seconds of clipping maybe every 30 seconds, if an encounter takes 10 minutes, and the healer is continuously clipping every 30 seconds for 0.6 seconds, that results into 12 seconds of clipping. 12 seconds could be almost 5 GCDs, which could mean 5 missed aspected helios, 5 missed Succors, 5 missed Cure II, or 5 missed glares. That's a lot of healing output and damage output lost overtime to simply clipping. Generally, it could be more depending on if the boss has phase transition mechanics or untargetable moments, causing each clip to prevent the last GCD from happening. -
12-04-2020, 12:02 AMMinitails
I don't hold much hope for AST since he's destroyed then rebuilded each expac...
But I had an idea that seemed like a good compromise between those that love the actual card system and those that prefered the previous one :
The red seal card could give a raw damage bonus (pretty much like they actually do or like the old Balance card)
The yellow seal card could give a casting/attack speed bonus (like the old Arrow card)
The blue seal could give a bonus on recast speed (like the old Spear card)
This way, we could regain the need to favor different jobs for the different card, while still having the seal system and Divination -
12-04-2020, 09:47 PMLariaKirin
Not a fan of the Malefic treatment for Broil and Glare.
What we can learn from AST is that having 20% of your dps contribution tied to raid buffs means a potency buff to other jobs is an indirect buff to your job. Meaning that AST will inevitably outperform other healers in dps because Squeenix is utterly terrified of nerfs and choose to powercreep the game instead. So we end up with the best dps, best free healing output, best mobility in one job.
SCH is currently a worse AST that needs to sacrifice more dps for less healing output.
WHM is completely crippled and requires an enabler to reach their dps potential. Why AST is allowed to still be above WHM in dps when WHM has to sacrifice the entirety of their healing output is baffling. Why haven't they moved Lightspeed to WHM yet? Why is PoM still 150s? WHM needs to not heal to match AST dps.
So now you want a WHM to reach their maximum dps output while being enabled (read: carried) by an almost solo-healing co-healer. And AST is just better for that.
WHM needs more mobility + more dps/cheaper heals. SCH needs fairy fixes. AST needs nerfs. -
12-05-2020, 01:22 AMQooErit baffles me why they made celestial opposition a heal, and reduced collective unconscious cooldown from 90 to 60. Ast can now solo heal almost all content now without ever casting gcd heals. and to make it worse they removed the only synergy ast had with its heals when they replaced the ability to extend regens with more free healing that was not neededQuote:
. So we end up with the best dps, best free healing output, best mobility in one job.
if ast was low on the healing department at the beginning of the expansion its because they nerfed all of its heals for no particular reason, but rather than returning them to what they used to be, they just buffed them significantly till we got to this point -
12-05-2020, 02:27 AMMortexIt is a time honored tradition now for astro. It sucks really badly at the start of every expansion and then gets buffed to heaven and beyond too outshine sch and whm. And whm being the same old bag since the game startet (as a former whm main it does hurt to see). Like at this point whms Job identity is being actually clipping mageQuote:
Originally Posted by QooEr
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12-05-2020, 06:44 AMSemirhage+1 to previous explanations. In addition to the mathematical inefficiency, it also feels wonky when you've established a good groove with your job. Keeping your GCD rolling has a rhythm to it. Using oGCDs between your instants (referred to as "weaving") are nice extra beats in that rhythm. 1, 2, 3-and-4, etc. Clipping is awkward stumbling over that rhythm that disrupts your job's flow. If you need to do it a lot your gameplay doesn't feel smooth anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyeria
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12-08-2020, 12:07 PMNefimmyrHow heavy a nerf are we talking? Because 5.0 AST is still fresh on my mind for how terrible healing was on AST. I'm more of a fan of first trying to buff the weaknesses a job ahs exposed before just shooting their competition in the knee caps for an artificial feeling of "progress".Quote:
Originally Posted by LariaKirin
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12-08-2020, 01:23 PMQooErrather than straight up nerfing Astro's potencies like they always do i want them to make the cooldowns longer so that heal planning is actually significant. However ideally i just rather them revert the shadowbringers changes and make Copp and Cu like in stormblood, where opposition isnt a heal but rather extends your already ticking regens. ast at launch was nerfed tremendously from stormblood which is why it felt so weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefimmyr
For some perspective, SB ast had about 1455 ogcd aoe heal potency per minute*; at 5.0 launch ast had 1320 aoe heal potency per min. Now its 2120 free aoe healing potency per min. Its beyond insane how much free healing AST has.
* this is if you always had asp helios up when you used copp. If you never casted gcd heals, ast had 1395 potency/min. if you always extended aspected benefic on a tank with copp it had 1605 p/min on single target. -
12-08-2020, 04:28 PMNefimmyrWhile I am not against reverting certain effects on a couple of AST's actions, wouldn't allowing AST to extend their buff durations on their regens (and presumably their shields too like the old CO) make their healing too strong when factoring in Neutral Sect buffs? And as for Collective Unconscious, it could use a recast increase. Maybe 90 seconds to be consistent with Assylum or 120 seconds. But I am against just removing a consistent AoE ogcd heal from AST in general. Horoscope still irks me with how I need to spend a GCD heal anyway if I want that ability to be comparable to Assize or Indom. And Collective Unconscious current strength is not 3 minute recast worthy in my opinion. I'm gonna start another thread about a more in depth reworking on AST as a job in this game after some time of really thinking over some changes that could be made both functionally and thematically.Quote:
Originally Posted by QooEr
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12-08-2020, 07:24 PMQooErwe can agree to disagree, but that Aoe heal shouldn't be as frequent and powerful since ast already had two consistent and powerful aoe heals. i mean just look at the jump of ogcd healing potency per min. copp as it is gives ast way too much free healingQuote:
Originally Posted by Nefimmyr
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12-10-2020, 04:18 PMSylvain
Tbh only SCH would need the 1.5s treatment. I mean, most of their healing comes from ogcd so it makes sense.
Whm don't need it as much because they simply don't have as many ogcd. Also the 120potency on dot refresh act as a tiny ruin2. Not ideal but since they don't have much to weave, I don't see it as a big issue. If anything lilies overcapping is a bigger one and I'd like to see a lily dump. -
12-10-2020, 07:12 PMSemirhageIf you (unspecified developer who isn't reading this) do it to one, please god do it to both. Let's not leave WHM as the only caster in the entire game that's still anchored to one spot (when the answer to 90% of XIV mechanics is "move") and still pays the caster tax.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvain
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12-10-2020, 07:59 PMRecon1o6
Here's what I think we can learn from AST
1. Don't destroy identity, potencies and actions playstyle and flavour, then lie about it unless you want to turn off 95% of everyone who plays it for 2 years.
2. Add reliable ogcd windows in to the job in order to have smooth play.
3. If the healer must be weak and have no damage, they need something to fill the gaps when no healing is required.
WHM is desperately in need of ogcd windows, not SCH. Sch can simply use ruin 2, and while a potency loss for the hysterical parsing high end toxic raiders, for the mast majority of the population its an excellent tool to get a gcd in
I would prefer WHM to get the sch style. Perhaps Water or Quake. Or better still Water AND Quake so it has aoe windows as well. -
12-10-2020, 08:40 PMBobsmiaw
I am hopping AST C.Opp give aoe heal of opposite sect effect with lowered potency:
Diurnal: 200 heal + 100% shield
Noct: 200 heal + 75 regen for 15 sec
Maybe also change CU effect a bit:
Diurnal: 100 regen for 15 sec (no dmg reduction effect when hold the bubble)
Noct: 10% dmg reduction for 20 sec (no regen effect when hold the bubble)
Perhaps this will nerf AST a bit while giving them more healing variety.
In addition it gives all "Calestial" ability a weaker opposite effect of "Aspected" spell. -
12-10-2020, 10:00 PMAnotherPersonThat statement is equally as toxic. The whole purpose of using weaving is to NOT lose GCD uptime and DPS while using oGCD abilities . Currently WHM has to use Glare so often because they suffer DPS when they move, so they use Afflatus spells for movement and for healing to minimize the loss as opposed to using Regen. SCH is now in the same boat because Broil III is way more effective than Ruin II that it's an absolute loss to use it even moreso than using Afflatus Solace/Rapture to eventually get Afflatus Misery. That's not to mention a bunch of SCH oGCDs are locked behind other oGCDs and some can't be used together in the same weave window, so they have to use Ruin II multiple times to even access their healing skills, all the while losing their DPS uptime. With the amount of Ruin IIs they have to use, it's essentially the same as clipping a Glare unless they use Energy Drain to actually make a 'free' weave window (which means less healing output). That means if you want to play Scholar effectively, they will sacrifice some of the healing skills you have because they are just not very optimal to use at all and maximize your healing efficiency by minimizing the amount of healing you have to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Recon1o6
3 Afflatus Solace/Afflatus Rapture + 1 Afflatus Misery = 4 instant GCDs and 900 potency worth of damage, losing 300 potency instead of 4 Glares.
4 Ruin II = 4 instant GCDs and 800 potency, losing 360 potency instead of 4 Broil IIIs.
Ruin II also does not heal HP.
If you truly don't care about potency loss, then WHM can just refresh the DoT on Dia since Dia does an upfront 120 potency and weave 2 oGCDs there. If that sounds terrible, don't say SCH can simply use Ruin II for "high end parsing toxic raiders". Both weaving options are currently just as bad.