Why is it....

That tanks in raids like to show off how big their junk is? Almost every raid I do, I try to push through quickly so I tend to be the first tank there and I pull. I will keep aggro until the tank uses provoke because they can't catch aggro so I have to use provoke. Every time I have to fight for it because the other tank wants to be a badass. And I wanna know why?

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

That tanks in raids like to show off how big their junk is? Almost every raid I do, I try to push through quickly so I tend to be the first tank there and I pull. I will keep aggro until the tank uses provoke because they can't catch aggro so I have to use provoke. Every time I have to fight for it because the other tank wants to be a badass. And I wanna know why?

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You're basically shadow boxing with like minded tanks. Take off your stance and let them tank, if they want it so badly. now their healers have to deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

That tanks in raids like to show off how big their junk is? Almost every raid I do, I try to push through quickly so I tend to be the first tank there and I pull. I will keep aggro until the tank uses provoke because they can't catch aggro so I have to use provoke. Every time I have to fight for it because the other tank wants to be a badass. And I wanna know why?

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Why do you fight for aggro? Because you want to be badass?
Well, whatever reason you have for wanting to have aggro is probably the same reason that other tank wants to have aggro.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

That tanks in raids like to show off how big their junk is? Almost every raid I do, I try to push through quickly so I tend to be the first tank there and I pull. I will keep aggro until the tank uses provoke because they can't catch aggro so I have to use provoke. Every time I have to fight for it because the other tank wants to be a badass. And I wanna know why?

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You're doing the same thing they want to do. They provoked? Don't provoke back. Screw it, let them have it. Maybe they'll get squashed in the process. Who knows.

Can Tanks Wars be petty and ridiculous that may have detrimental affects on the alliance or trial? Sure! Is it worth getting angry over? Nope.

Lol I'm just wondering why. It doesn't make sense to me. I mean I get its fun being MT but is it really worth being petty when the current MT is tanking better then you? I'll admit that in the past I used to to it on purpose when another tank pissed me off so I would troll them and wipe the whole alliance by taking the boss, but now that there is no DPS penalty, its like thats every tanks goal. They only run every Alliance/normal raid/trial with tank stance on at all times

Maybe those tanks are slightly new?

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

Lol I'm just wondering why. It doesn't make sense to me. I mean I get its fun being MT but is it really worth being petty when the current MT is tanking better then you? I'll admit that in the past I used to to it on purpose when another tank pissed me off so I would troll them and wipe the whole alliance by taking the boss, but now that there is no DPS penalty, its like thats every tanks goal. They only run every Alliance/normal raid/trial with tank stance on at all times

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Sounds to me that the problem here is not the pettiness of the other tanks...

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

Sounds to me that the problem here is not the pettiness of the other tanks...

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Then what's the problem?

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Originally Posted by Coletergeist

Maybe those tanks are slightly new?

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No sprout and lvl80.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

Lol I'm just wondering why. It doesn't make sense to me. I mean I get its fun being MT but is it really worth being petty when the current MT is tanking better then you? I'll admit that in the past I used to to it on purpose when another tank pissed me off so I would troll them and wipe the whole alliance by taking the boss, but now that there is no DPS penalty, its like thats every tanks goal. They only run every Alliance/normal raid/trial with tank stance on at all times

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Maybe being an overachiever and "first to grab the boss" has possibly pissed these tanks off, and you're starting to get a taste of what it feels like. I like to call it karma.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Maybe being an overachiever and "first to grab the boss" has possibly pissed these tanks off, and you're starting to get a taste of what it feels like. I like to call it karma.

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When nobody does anything then of course I'll be first to pull. Plus when you have run LoA every day for 2 weeks, you kinda wanna get it over with. Not wait 20 minutes for another tank to pull. Its not "karma," its called being a douche. :/ if you get pissed off in early content like that, you should rethink being a tank in the first place. With the Teleport, there is no reason to wait for every person especially when people purposely wait for tele. So instead of waiting, you can make it faster by pulling and some tanks do it with me. If they get there first, I let them pull and turn off aggro. Other tanks leave it on and fight. Its ridiculously childish.

Have you considered that they just wanna MT just like you? If you are fighting with them over whose MT, you are both basically in the same mindset

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

When nobody does anything then of course I'll be first to pull. Plus when you have run LoA every day for 2 weeks, you kinda wanna get it over with. Not wait 20 minutes for another tank to pull. Its not "karma," its called being a douche. :/ if you get pissed off in early content like that, you should rethink being a tank in the first place. With the Teleport, there is no reason to wait for every person especially when people purposely wait for tele. So instead of waiting, you can make it faster by pulling and some tanks do it with me. If they get there first, I let them pull and turn off aggro. Other tanks leave it on and fight. Its ridiculously childish.

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Then what seems to be the problem? OH I got it, you're tired of getting LotA in your alliance roullette. Stop doing Alliance roullette then.

It can be rather frustrating on bosses where you know you could position them better but that's pretty much all there is to it. Just turn your tank stance off and let them pull the boss around like a headless chicken, not much you can do about provoke spammers anyway.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Then what seems to be the problem? OH I got it, you're tired of getting LotA in your alliance roullette. Stop doing Alliance roullette then.

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Or. Come up with a better solution instead of being a jerk?

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Originally Posted by Stepjam

Have you considered that they just wanna MT just like you? If you are fighting with them over whose MT, you are both basically in the same mindset

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I have considered this and should be where communication comes in. I communicate about being MT they say nothing and just keep pulling it off.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

It can be rather frustrating on bosses where you know you could position them better but that's pretty much all there is to it. Just turn your tank stance off and let them pull the boss around like a headless chicken, not much you can do about provoke spammers anyway.

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Normally I'd agree, but I still hold the boss away from them even when they keep provoking so no way ima let the party wipe just because they wanna play dumb. I just want to know why people ignore common courtesy as well as blatantly ignore communication just because they wanna size me up. It's not a pissing contest :/

As someone who also likes being the MT of alliance raids, your "I rush to boss first to establish myself as MT" genuinely p***es me off.

My approach to MTing is asking "I'd like to tank the bosses, are the other two tanks ok with it? <se.10>", not trying to race to the boss to establish first aggro or claiming to be MT and arguing over it. You made it a contest by establishing your arbitrary rule that not many seem to agree with.

Key to your dilemma is correct communication.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

Or. Come up with a better solution instead of being a jerk?

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Not possible when op gradually flips a 360 and proves theyre posting for clicks. Complaining for issues they later claim don't really bother them. Again the solution has been stated, by several others. So I'll ask again really slowly. What Seems to be the
Problem then?

To no one in particular. If every group you are in has an issue, the problem is unlikely to be everyone else.

Wow. Never said I was complaining about it, dude. Its called A QUESTION or do you not understand human language enough to know what a complaint is?

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

As someone who also likes being the MT of alliance raids, your "I rush to boss first to establish myself as MT" genuinely p***es me off.

My approach to MTing is asking "I'd like to tank the bosses, are the other two tanks ok with it? <se.10>", not trying to race to the boss to establish first aggro or claiming to be MT and arguing over it. You made it a contest by establishing your arbitrary rule that not many seem to agree with.

Key to your dilemma is correct communication.

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And again. I say "I'll MT" and people dont respond. I say it at the beginning and nobody responds. And tbh, if that pisses you off dude, you really need to reevaluate your entire life. If somebody gets there first gtfoi. That is not a reason to get pissed off in any game or even irl. In a community where people seem to not give a crap about others, you should very well understand this. There is a reason Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium now have locked cutscenes. But in a place with no cutscenes and is easily finished quickly, it shouldn't matter anyways but that doesn't mean fighting for aggro wont kill a party.

Passive agressive topic with more than 10 "back at you" answers sounds more like a rant than an honest question but oh well...

You MT. They take aggro and don't toggle.

You don't mind ? Toggle off and let them have it.
Pisses you of ? I don't see why, unless you care about MTing (and I can't think of why unless you're actually part of the crowd you vilify...)

If that happens in a content where fighting for aggro will kill a party, it's called Extremes and Savages and require a strategy, so it shouldn't happen because people in there react quickly to "dude. stance." comments.

In other content where it could happen, aggro contest have no consequences whatsoever so we healers and DPS don't really care about this situation. Positionnals ? like I give a f in an alliance raid...

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Originally Posted by Karshan

Passive agressive topic with more than 10 "back at you" answers sounds more like a rant than an honest question but oh well...

You MT. They take aggro and don't toggle.

You don't mind ? Toggle off and let them have it.
Pisses you of ? I don't see why, unless you care about MTing (and I can't think of why unless you're actually part of the crowd you vilify...)

If that happens in a content where fighting for aggro will kill a party, it's called Extremes and Savages and require a strategy, so it shouldn't happen because people in there react quickly to "dude. stance." comments.

In other content where it could happen, aggro contest have no consequences whatsoever so we healers and DPS don't really care about this situation. Positionnals ? like I give a f in an alliance raid...

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I'm gonna have to stop you there. Improperly placed bosses in ANY Alliance raid can kill a party. And fighting aggro can always cause this. And I know this from personal experience when I let a tank have the aggro and we wiped cause he couldnt place them right. Also I never said it pisses me off. I'm not angry or ranting. You should reread what I posted cause I just want to know why tanks make it such a pissing contest. Like whats so great about being MT other then setting the pace. I like to MT only because I want things done faster and thats it. And I have shut it off on several occasions when someone else. Pulls before me so you really should read instead of saying that I'm saying things without actually seeing what I'm actually saying.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

And again. I say "I'll MT" and people dont respond. I say it at the beginning and nobody responds.

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A short "Ill MT" can quickly get drowned out for being short in text in chat and is a statement without asking for concrete approval. Again, make a request people can see in chat and if you dont like typing, macro it.

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And tbh, if that pisses you off dude, you really need to reevaluate your entire life. If somebody gets there first gtfoi. That is not a reason to get pissed off in any game or even irl.

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Ill be as angry and ranting as I personally god-damn wish mate, mind your own apparent problem first, after all you made this topic and people give their opinions on it, of which most seem to disagree with you. Maybe you're the odd one out here?

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In a community where people seem to not give a crap about others, you should very well understand this.

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Speak for yourself mate, not others. My perception of this community is nowhere near as grim as yours and I don't share your problems either.

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There is a reason Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium now have locked cutscenes. But in a place with no cutscenes and is easily finished quickly, it shouldn't matter anyways but that doesn't mean fighting for aggro wont kill a party.

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MSQ dungeons are their own design failure which would need a separate thread, but whatever.

If you are so heavily concerned about aggro dueling and the "dangers" behind it, be the first to drop it. Stop complaining about a problem while simultanously being the problem.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

A short "Ill MT" can quickly get drowned out for being short in text in chat and is a statement without asking for concrete approval. Again, make a request people can see in chat and if you dont like typing, macro it.


Ill be as angry and ranting as I personally god-damn wish mate, mind your own apparent problem first, after all you made this topic and people give their opinions on it, of which most seem to disagree with you. Maybe you're the odd one out here?


Speak for yourself mate, not others. My perception of this community is nowhere near as grim as yours and I don't share your problems either.



MSQ dungeons are their own design failure which would need a separate thread, but whatever.

If you are so heavily concerned about aggro dueling and the "dangers" behind it, be the first to drop it. Stop complaining about a problem while simultanously being the problem.

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Gonna have to top you there. I always say it before we get to the boss when there is no chatter and no way for it to get drowned out. I'm not stupid, unlike a few choice people getting easily angry at a simple question and something not worth being angry over. Don't like how I communicate, oh well. I dont like your attitude either but I gotta deal with that now, dont I?

And how are people disagreeing with me when it was JUST A QUESTION? CAN YOU READ? IS THE SIZE OF CAPITOL LETTERS MAKE IT EASIER FOR YOU? I WAS ONLY WONDERING ABOUT IT. WAS NOT COMPLAINING AS I FIND IT FUNNY. I HOPE MY CAPS HELP YOU TO REALIZE HOW LACKING YOU SEEM TO BE UPSTAIRS.

And no. I see it all the time. Granted its not the majority but tanks mainly dont care about other players. The MSQ dungeons were fine. Or at least they used to be. But Tanks began to refuse new players and either kick them, or just leave them behind completely forcing them to choose story or fights. So. SE forced cutscenes. The dungeons werent the problem as tanks started doing it everywhere. They did it in Alliance raids most of all. That's why they added in the Teleport. So toxic behavior cause all these issues because of tanks. When I run with a new player, I always hold the party to let them catch up but if it was me who was new, I'd never get the courtesy. I'm sorry that its a truth I'm sure you aren't willing to see but it was obviously a big enough problem that SE had to accommodate for. So yea. Its a community that doesn't care.

If it is a question then you're expecting an answer. Correct ?

So here is your answer : this happens because they don't give a crap / bother. Simple as that. If you don't mind either as you claim, toggle off and that's it.

What people are pointing out is : the issue that make you raise this question seems to be boss beyblading. If you see it as a problem, and toggling off is a quick solution, why not apply it ? Cause this 3 page topic won't, alas, magically make them toggle off. Since even telling them directly in game in chat doesn't seem to have an effect...
Is it your fault ? Absolutely not. Can you do something about it ? Absolutely Yes. Up to you then.

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Originally Posted by Karshan

If it is a question then you're expecting an answer. Correct ?

So here is your answer : this happens because they don't give a crap / bother. Simple as that. If you don't mind either as you claim, toggle off and that's it.

What people are pointing out is : the issue that make you raise this question seems to be boss beyblading. If you see it as a problem, and toggling off is a quick solution, why not apply it ? Cause this 3 page topic won't, alas, magically make them toggle off. Since even telling them directly in game in chat doesn't seem to have an effect...
Is it your fault ? Absolutely not. Can you do something about it ? Absolutely Yes. Up to you then.

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And your attitude is garbage? Absolutely! It's a 3 page thread because of people like you and those you mention accusing me of complaining. Especially when I'm baffled by what those tanks do. I find it ridiculous and I wanted to share it with like-minded individuals but instead I get a big batch of jerks throwing attitude and accusations.

Not every damn post is a complaint. Not every post is clickbait. Just chill and correct yourself dude. And everybody else here as well! This is exactly what I mean by a community that doesn't care. You guys don't give a crap about my views or what I'm saying, you just care about getting into a confrontation. Plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

And your attitude is garbage? Absolutely! It's a 3 page thread because of people like you and those you mention accusing me of complaining. Especially when I'm baffled by what those tanks do. I find it ridiculous and I wanted to share it with like-minded individuals but instead I get a big batch of jerks throwing attitude and accusations.

Not every damn post is a complaint. Not every post is clickbait. Just chill and correct yourself dude. And everybody else here as well! This is exactly what I mean by a community that doesn't care. You guys don't give a crap about my views or what I'm saying, you just care about getting into a confrontation. Plain and simple.

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My second post was a lot less toxic than my first one, so I don't particularly understand the lash out.

So what do you want to hear ? "oh my god, you're so right, hi hi hi " ? What do you want to point out ? That those tanks attitude you encounter is one of people who don't give a crap ? But of course it is ! I don't think anybody here disagrees with the fact that they should not do that. I was not sarcastic when saying it's absolutely not your fault that they don't know what they're doing.

But what will it change to post it here ? Will they suddenly have an illumination "hey I'm doing it wrong", when you have no clue if they actually come here and read this ? That is what I'm questionning, or confronting if you prefer the terminology.

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Originally Posted by Karshan

My second post was a lot less toxic than my first one, so I don't particularly understand the lash out.

So what do you want to hear ? "oh my god, you're so right, hi hi hi " ? What do you want to point out ? That those tanks attitude you encounter is one of people who don't give a crap ? But of course it is ! I don't think anybody here disagrees with the fact that they should not do that. I was not sarcastic when saying it's absolutely not your fault that they don't know what they're doing.

But what will it change to post it here ? Will they suddenly have an illumination "hey I'm doing it wrong", when you have no clue if they actually come here and read this ? That is what I'm questionning, or confronting if you prefer the terminology.

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No. Tbh I felt equal toxicity from both and I'm getting sick of getting that kind of attitude and the accusations. It happens on every forum. You do know that not every thread HAS to have an issue or a complaint or even a rant. Can be a friendly discussion about anything and that's all this was supposed do be. A thread of "dude! You know I was wondering that myself!" And "you know, the probably just pissed about [insert dumb joke here]" kinda thing. Not what you and everyone else brought forth. Wonderful community we got here, my ads.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

No. Tbh I felt equal toxicity from both and I'm getting sick of getting that kind of attitude and the accusations. It happens on every forum. You do know that not every thread HAS to have an issue or a complaint or even a rant. Can be a friendly discussion about anything and that's all this was supposed do be. A thread of "dude! You know I was wondering that myself!" And "you know, the probably just pissed about [insert dumb joke here]" kinda thing. Not what you and everyone else brought forth. Wonderful community we got here, my ads.

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The way you phrased your initial question it very much sounded like a complaint, and in your other posts here you have indeed been complaining about the behaviour you asked about.
So please don't try to pretend it was just an innocent question and not a way of complaining.

I don't get why this is even such a big deal.
As long as one of the tanks is holding aggro, who cares which one? But aggro dick fights and healbot dick fights seem to be a huge thing in alli raids. As if whoever is currently holding aggro/ healing the fastest is the most useful and important one.

If another tanks provokes, I'll even give them a Shirk high five, turn off my stance and mash my dps buttons. This constant aggro war between tanks just pisses off melees unless they all stack neatly on top of each other... which rarely happens because everyone needs to see from the boss turning that another tank now has aggro and is more important.
I like to run ahead and pull because I like to speed things up but if another tank wants to be on MT duty so badly and doesn't fall asleep while pulling, I let them have it. If it causes problems because poor boss positioning/ squishy, that's on them. They wanted it, they better know how to deal with it.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

The way you phrased your initial question it very much sounded like a complaint, and in your other posts here you have indeed been complaining about the behaviour you asked about.
So please don't try to pretend it was just an innocent question and not a way of complaining.

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Yes. Ive made complaint posts but most were done 6 years ago. I'm entitled to ask an innocent question. And no, my original post shows how baffled I am by the fact people have to be so selfish. If it was a complaint id be tell everybody to knock it off. But I just asked a damn question. You guys took it as a complaint just like every other forum on the internet. I could ask "why is the sky blue?" And you would take it as a complaint. So no. It was an innocent question so stay in your lane and find some other post to bully.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

I don't get why this is even such a big deal.
As long as one of the tanks is holding aggro, who cares which one? But aggro dick fights and healbot dick fights seem to be a huge thing in alli raids. As if whoever is currently holding aggro/ healing the fastest is the most useful and important one.

If another tanks provokes, I'll even give them a Shirk high five, turn off my stance and mash my dps buttons. This constant aggro war between tanks just pisses off melees unless they all stack neatly on top of each other... which rarely happens because everyone needs to see from the boss turning that another tank now has aggro and is more important.
I like to run ahead and pull because I like to speed things up but if another tank wants to be on MT duty so badly and doesn't fall asleep while pulling, I let them have it. If it causes problems because poor boss positioning/ squishy, that's on them. They wanted it, they better know how to deal with it.

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See? Idk why it is either. I'm not as nice to give it to the other tank unless the take aggro first but it begs me to wonder "why?" It doesn't change gameplay. So what is the "need" to be MT?

Tank Wars always make me laugh. More so when I'm playing tank and end up stealing aggro with my grey tanks dps not using provoke. Also I keep stance on just in case the MT randomly explodes.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

I don't get why this is even such a big deal.
As long as one of the tanks is holding aggro, who cares which one?

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I care because when I carefully placed the boss so that melee can have optimal positionals and boss abilities dont randomly screw up most "tactics" (for example O10 says hi on that regard).. and other tank provokes from other side of boss/arena.. just because they feel like provoke is part of rotation.

As for alliance raids (mostly ARR), I just find it funny how tanks fight over the boss while the adds are smashing healers into ground and no tank wants to touch them.

I mean sure, you can have the boss. But if someone wants to provoke it for no reason at least move the boss so it doesnt cleave everyone

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Originally Posted by InkB

I care because when I carefully placed the boss so that melee can have optimal positionals and boss abilities dont randomly screw up most "tactics" (for example O10 says hi on that regard).. and other tank provokes from other side of boss/arena.. just because they feel like provoke is part of rotation.

As for alliance raids (mostly ARR), I just find it funny how tanks fight over the boss while the adds are smashing healers into ground and no tank wants to touch them.

I mean sure, you can have the boss. But if someone wants to provoke it for no reason at least move the boss so it doesnt cleave everyone

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In those situations i go grab up all the adds, which one would assume an aware tank would do? Call me crazy but grabbing adds sounds like something a tank would do, if the boss is already being held down. I dunno, sounds really far fetched right? Like the person responsible for cutting the light switch on standing there yelling "why is nobody cutting the light switch on?!?!"