Hrothgar and Viera cant wear the newer items?

Like, OK, I completely understand that hrothgar and viera can't wear the older items from 7000000 years ago. However, it absolutely boggles mind mind how they can't wear the newer headgears and hairs? Like Did SE just completely forget about hrothgar and viera after releasing them or something? We'll maybe get a pity hat (bozja) or something that completely covers the entire head. You'd think that the newer stuff would be developed for our beloved hroths and vieras in "conjunction" with the rest of the races...They truly are making them feel more incomplete as they are left out from every new hair and headgear pieces.

I think it would be silly of someone to say "what if they'll release them later?". Why? Because why waste time and money releasing them later when you can release them at the same time as everything else?

I just think that it would make a lot more sense if they could wear the newer items and mogstation items (because I mean, lets face it, most of us dont buy the mog station items for the entire set. We typically buy them for a piece or 2....) and it makes no sense that items that people spend real life money on an item that is also limited (99% of my mog outfits were purchased when I still played Roes and Au Ras.

The new hair looks so nice and so do some of the older hairstyles and I really wish I could use them to add a bit more personality (?) or individuality to my hrothgar main and viera alt.

Also, side note: Whose good idea was it to tie specific hrothgar hairstyles to a specific head? That was probably the dumbest thing ever. Face two is my favorite, but its hair styles are not.....I like the more ronso looking face hair styles, but I dont like their actual face?

Can we stop test playing hrothgar and viera and actually get a full and complete race?

Personally feels like spite when they add something they apparently didnt want to, not sure what caused them to make hrothgar and viera at all. You guys are the new miqote, roegadyn. Something something, can't do butt sliders, nier automata raids become a thing, you still cant use slider see? Feels like "we gave you your bun buns and beast like race, stop asking for more"

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Personally feels like spite when they add something they apparently didnt want to, not sure what caused them to make hrothgar and viera at all. You guys are the new miqote, roegadyn. Something something, can't do butt sliders, nier automata raids become a thing, you still cant use slider see? Feels like "we gave you your bun buns and beast like race, stop asking for more"

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Players kept asking for Viera. Players kept asking for a race that didn't look essentially like a human wearing costume animal ears and tail.

So SE added Viera and Hrothgar. They warned players upfront that neither race was designed to be compatible with headgear.

There's no spite in it. If they wanted to spite players, they wouldn't have added them at all. And considering the way many players have been acting since, that would have been the better decision.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Players kept asking for Viera. Players kept asking for a race that didn't look essentially like a human wearing costume animal ears and tail.

So SE added Viera and Hrothgar. They warned players upfront that neither race was designed to be compatible with headgear.

There's no spite in it. If they wanted to spite players, they wouldn't have added them at all. And considering the way many players have been acting since, that would have been the better decision.

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To be fair, in a 2013 interview, there was already a race in in the planning stages (Not hrothgar specifically). They originally had no intention of adding Viera, but seeing how the playerbase reacted to Fran and how much they wanted them, they felt the need to satisfy their players. Not being compatible w/ older head gears is fine, but it makes no sense that they can't be compatible with different hair styles and what not. What kind of technical limitations are in place that prevents them from adding the newer (and older hairstyles as there aren't really that many) to hrothgar and viera. One could say its almost as simple as taking the hair, adding it to the head, fix clipping and other issues and bam done?

This sounds more like a "You got what you wanted, stop complaining!" type of response. Also, to be completely fair, I never knew people were asking for a more beast type race. I was pretty much happy playing a femroe until I fell in love w/ my hrothgar.

So many hats already have cat ear holes, wouldn't be too much trouble to just put bun ears through that.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

So many hats already have cat ear holes, wouldn't be too much trouble to just put bun ears through that.

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There has to be some reason why they're unable to do it....I just can't see that reason

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Players kept asking for Viera. Players kept asking for a race that didn't look essentially like a human wearing costume animal ears and tail.

So SE added Viera and Hrothgar. They warned players upfront that neither race was designed to be compatible with headgear.

There's no spite in it. If they wanted to spite players, they wouldn't have added them at all. And considering the way many players have been acting since, that would have been the better decision.

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This. Furthermore, the call for Viera is why there are not female Hrothgar in Bojza.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

So many hats already have cat ear holes, wouldn't be too much trouble to just put bun ears through that.

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Viera ears are positioned differently to Miqo'te ears so the hats wouldn't be interchangeable. There are also a lot of hats where they either just build ear shapes into it - often without bothering to check if they actually line up with the underlying ear shape/size - or don't leave holes at all, like the recent Moonfire straw hat which looks like there'd be no space at all inside. It doesn't look nice on Miqo'te and it would be an even worse effect on Viera.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

So many hats already have cat ear holes, wouldn't be too much trouble to just put bun ears through that.

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Miqo'te ears are in a different position than Viera and Hrothgar ears. The holes wouldn't be in the correct position.

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Originally Posted by Akimori

There has to be some reason why they're unable to do it....I just can't see that reason

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Could they do it? Of course but that's time spent remaking items in for a single gear slot instead of creating new gear for all players.

You're going to have a hard time convincing the player base that sacrificing new gears set (not just headgear but body, legs, etc) for the sake of modifying headgear to fit Viera and Hrothgar is a good deal.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

This. Furthermore, the call for Viera is why there are not female Hrothgar in Bojza.

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The call for a beast like race is why we have no male Viera. Argument goes both ways. There were far more players openly asking for Viera than for a beast like race. You're probably lucky Hrothgar exists at all.

This sort of situation is why I dislike heavy fan service in games. You end up with a huge disagreement within the player base over what should be picked for the fan service, whether the fan service was done "correctly", etc. and you end up with fewer new ideas expanding gaming in general.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Could they do it? Of course but that's time spent remaking items in for a single gear slot instead of creating new gear for all players.

You're going to have a hard time convincing the player base that sacrificing new gears set (not just headgear but body, legs, etc) for the sake of modifying headgear to fit Viera and Hrothgar is a good dealr.

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I think you're missing the main point. The point is not really the older stuff. Its more about the newer stuff. I does not make sense to me that hrothgar and Viera can't wear the NEWER things (newer head gear, newer mog station hats, newer hairstyles (especially the newer hair styles!!), etc)

Thats what I want to know.

So, my understanding is that the character models may have a specific limited number of attachment points—places where things can be linked to them. One is the scalp, which is where hats go. I suspect that for miqo’te, the ears probably normally take up that spot; this is likely why hats on miqo’te cover the ears rather than letting them “poke through”; there’s nothing there to poke through, as the hat probably replaces the ears. By covering them up with fabric, you conceal that the ears themselves are no longer there.

I would bet the Viera ears are the same way... but you can’t conceal them in the hat model itself like with miqo’te. Having them covered by fabric would be weird, having them just vanish would be weird... and since the ears are customizable, you cannot just make a hat model with generic Viera ears poking out; people would be upset that their ears changed to be different ears when putting on a hat.

So if that guess is right, then to let Viera wear most hats takes more than just making a model for them. Even for newer outfits. To let them wear hats and have ears at the same time, the whole character model rigging system might need to be revamped. And that would probably not be a small project, most likely.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

So, my understanding is that the character models may have a specific limited number of attachment points—places where things can be linked to them. One is the scalp, which is where hats go. I suspect that for miqo’te, the ears probably normally take up that spot; this is likely why hats on miqo’te cover the ears rather than letting them “poke through”; there’s nothing there to poke through, as the hat probably replaces the ears. By covering them up with fabric, you conceal that the ears themselves are no longer there.

I would bet the Viera ears are the same way... but you can’t conceal them in the hat model itself like with miqo’te. Having them covered by fabric would be weird, having them just vanish would be weird... and since the ears are customizable, you cannot just make a hat model with generic Viera ears poking out; people would be upset that their ears changed to be different ears when putting on a hat.

So if that guess is right, then to let Viera wear most hats takes more than just making a model for them. Even for newer outfits. To let them wear hats and have ears at the same time, the whole character model rigging system might need to be revamped. And that would probably not be a small project, most likely.

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I don't think that's quite right. Hooded cloaks and headgear can still be worn but the ears clip straight through. It looks rather odd but try on the vermillion doublet from eureka for example. I think the nier hood works too but I cant remember for sure.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

So, my understanding is that the character models may have a specific limited number of attachment points—places where things can be linked to them. One is the scalp, which is where hats go. I suspect that for miqo’te, the ears probably normally take up that spot; this is likely why hats on miqo’te cover the ears rather than letting them “poke through”; there’s nothing there to poke through, as the hat probably replaces the ears. By covering them up with fabric, you conceal that the ears themselves are no longer there.

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I don't know if that logic might hold for particular types of hats (with veils or feathers attached, maybe?) but it's not a blanket rule that ears can't show when wearing a hat. Some have ear holes that let them show.

The ears are designed quite differently for the two races though. For Miqo'te, the inner ear is part of the character model while the fur is part of the hairstyle, so design elements like coloured ear-tips are tied to the hair and not the character; the size and shape of the ears is the same for all characters because all the pieces need to be interchangeable. For Viera, the whole ear is added in one piece and there is an independent choice of ear shape that can be combined with any hairstyle.

Interestingly, the skin colour on the inner ear varies with overall skin colour for Miqo'te, but stays pink for Viera - whether that's an effect of the design approach or an oversight.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Personally feels like spite when they add something they apparently didnt want to, not sure what caused them to make hrothgar and viera at all. You guys are the new miqote, roegadyn. Something something, can't do butt sliders, nier automata raids become a thing, you still cant use slider see? Feels like "we gave you your bun buns and beast like race, stop asking for more"

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Its called caving into demands. The thing was once they did, they did tell the fanbase, that head gear and hairstyles will be extremely limited. I wasn't expecting head gear, but I was hoping for new hairstyles at the very least.

NGL, only some of the headgears fit my fancy. Glasses and some hoods they've given, so Im not really whining about that. Its just mainly the hair styles. Hrothgar have "8" hair styles, but depending on the type of head you choose, you really only have a choice between 2. So much for robust character creation for hrothgar....

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Miqo'te ears are in a different position than Viera and Hrothgar ears. The holes wouldn't be in the correct position.

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Technically, you don't even NEED holes. Ears that clip look like they had holes from most angles.

But yes, that's the point I'm making though. The amount of effort needed to punch a hole for the miqo'te, and punching a hole for veierra.... about the same. If one can do it, the other should be able to as well. Now, Hrothgar, that has heads that are different enough from eachother that you can't just ... punch holes... but at least the Vii should be able to.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

I don't think that's quite right. Hooded cloaks and headgear can still be worn but the ears clip straight through. It looks rather odd but try on the vermillion doublet from eureka for example. I think the nier hood works too but I cant remember for sure.

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I suspect the hooded things are specifically attached at different points than the scalp; I believe it’s connected at a neck point or something similar, like where a necklace model usually goes. That would let you animate the cloth turning with the head more easily without separating from the chest part of a hooded piece. (At least, that’s how I would’ve probably ended up doing that in a game engine that works like XIV’s.) Similarly, I suspect some of the NieR stuff may be anchored on the eyepiece attachment point (what with blindfolds and all).

Both of those would allow the ears to still be present, clipping through the model. But I also suspect that approach wouldn’t work well for all the headpiece designs in game, in terms of how the animation hierarchy works.

(Again, however, that’s just my gut feeling as a former game dev based on what I’ve heard of the FFXIV animation rigging. Though I’m tempted to go rip open the game assets and poke around in the models now to see how on-the-mark that is.)

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

So, my understanding is that the character models may have a specific limited number of attachment points—places where things can be linked to them. One is the scalp, which is where hats go. I suspect that for miqo’te, the ears probably normally take up that spot; this is likely why hats on miqo’te cover the ears rather than letting them “poke through”; there’s nothing there to poke through, as the hat probably replaces the ears. By covering them up with fabric, you conceal that the ears themselves are no longer there....

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Check out H'rhanbolo who hangs out in aleport. She wears a dated walking hat. Her ears poke through.

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/H...olo/Appearance

Miqote ears also poke through the pearl roselle capeline and several other hats.

It looks like it's not exactly that the ears "clip through" but that they're located outside of the hat to begin with.

This thread on Miqo'te ears has some pictures of character models without a hairstyle equipped and you can see that the ears float over the head rather than being connected to it.