I think Limit breaks need a bit of a rework. Before release, ARR's battle system was named around Limit breaks, and yet they're incredibly underwhelming. 9 of 10 times you'll see the same level 1/2 limit breaks, both of which are role-specific instead of Job-specific.
There are two main problems with limit breaks.
First one that comes to mind is their 'utility'- it's practically nonexistent, for anything except DPS or Healer LB3. There's a meta to Limit Breaks, and i feel like that ruins the fun of the entire system.
Two, LB3 is far too rare to see, and even rarer to use. It only ever appears in certain fights. And the fact is has to be charged within that fight alone as a result, while it is only one bar, tends to limit its usage to 'take the last 5% off a boss's HP', or the occasional Emergency Mega-res if people REALLY screw things up at the end. And given how the LB3 is the big draw of the system, the job-specific Limit break... Yeah, the issue kinda speaks for itself.
In my opinion, there a few ways this could be resolved.
One, to resolve the second issue, with the severe lack of the Job-specific Limit breaks, is to just give Job-specific LB1/2s. That way it feels a bit more special when you use it.
For the first issue, more LB1/2s need to be buffed. There needs to be a better incentive to using LB1 as healer or as tank. For example:
Tank:
LB1 - 40% Damage decrease. 10 Seconds.
LB2 - 60% Damage decrease. 10 Seconds.
LB3 - Cannot go below 1HP by regular means. 10 seconds. [Does not include mechanics that would kill from higher than X-% health, for Raid mechanic reasons.]
Healer:
LB1 - Restores 40% of HP for all party members. Regen effect for 12-ish seconds, healing up to an extra 40%. Completely restores MP for all players.
LB2 - Restores 80% of HP for all party members. Completely restores MP for all players.
LB3 - Restores 100% of HP and MP for all party members. Revives all fallen party members.
DPS:
Basically, just make each LB do the damage of the LB above it, honestly.
NOW. Before i catch hands for that- i have zero raid experience so i have NO idea how bad this would break things. All i know is that, having a lot of these be a one-time use per dungeon is already a SERIOUS consequence- because using an LB1 as tank could easily mean no LB3 from your Healer later. However, as it stands, it's less of a debate on which is more valuable and when, and more of 'you literally do not have a choice, leave it to the healer, unless we're almost done with the last fight in which case the dragoon can have it lol [if he isn't fucking dEAD]'.
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Limit Breaks are kind of underwhelming
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09-28-2020, 02:21 PMDrMaverickLimit Breaks are kind of underwhelming
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09-28-2020, 02:22 PMDrMaverick
Or Solution 2, and the far more nuclear one...
just make LB meter player specific ._.
It'd work. If LB meters were player specific, it'd mean that EVERY party member's LB can be of some value. However, to prevent LB-spam, there'd have to be some kind of global cooldown across the entire party. That way, everyone gets a turn, but without it being an immediate LB-fest that just breaks entire fights.
And if LB meter was player-specific, then there'd be no need for limitations. Just have it be three bars, always. People can utilise their LB as they see fit- it's just another resource to consider.
Of course charging would need to be faster, since currently Limit breaks are charged by entire parties performing attacks or taking damage, not just one person. And extra rules could be applied as necessary- for example, if you perform an LB3 at any point, you cannot charge any more Limit break. At all. Period. Entire dungeon, you're out of it. Or the cooldown is longer the higher-level LB you use. Stuff like that.
And come to think of it- LBs are never really taught to newer players. Their effects are never taught and the circumstances which dictate how they work is never really taught. I had to actually CHECK how and when you can get an LB3 to make sure i was right when making this post, and i'm STILL scared i got it wrong. -
09-28-2020, 05:30 PMSeraphor
A third option that I'd like to see (maybe in conjunction with your first suggestion) is that all LB's only consume one bar.
Basically, if you have 3 full bars, using an LB would trigger your LB3, but only one bar would be consumed, making an LB2 still available.
Not quite as OP as 'everyone has their own LB meter' but it would at least allow for you to have multiple LB's in a dungeon.
And if you blew a LB1 as a Tank/DPS earlier, while you might not have an LB3 saved, your healer could at least get some support from an LB1 or 2.
This should at least get some use of LB 1 and 2, considering that these aren't actually a dps gain at all at higher levels, and I think LB2 may actually be a dps loss considering the animation lock. So with a little buffing as well, that would be useful. -
12-27-2020, 11:27 AMAceofRains
This is a seriously under-discussed topic. I hope for changes to the LB system in the next expac as it is indeed showing it’s age.
I’d be in favor of a system where everyone gets their own, and it’s most likely they’ll only get to use it once in a run. There is only 1 LB bar. In order to charge it efficiently, you have to be doing your part correctly. -
12-27-2020, 01:53 PMItMe
Limit breaks are underwhelming?
My fix: make every LB as bright and intense as RDM's LB3, and ratchet that one up to a new extreme. -
12-28-2020, 02:05 AMQooEr
tank lb is actually very useful in prog, minimum ilevel raids and ultimate. as recently as this patch our group used tank lb1 in e11s (cycles of faith) and in e12s (quietus + pulsars).
the reason tank lb rarely ever sees use in most other content is because LB is the last resort for mitigation. for one to consider tank lb, ALL of the party's mitigation would have to be insufficient or on cooldown (addle, reprisal, HoL/shake/veil/missionary, succor/noct helios, soil/CU/temperance, troub/samba/tact). This will never happen outside of flashy transitions and high end content; even with the buffs you suggested, simply cuz its not needed at that gameplay level.
The most use it could see in a casual setting is a tank doing a mass pull running out of cooldowns, and even then its a stretch.
as for healer lb, healers actions can bring people from 1 hp to full in less than 10 seconds, so LB1 and LB2 will always be underwhelming, but the mp restoration would give them niche uses.
I agree that DPS lb1 and lb2 are kind of underwhelming though, the huge animation lock kind of makes using them not worth missing the gcds, as youd do comparable damage vs just not using it. Dps Limit breaks should be slightly buffed either in damage or by reducing animation lock -
12-28-2020, 02:42 AMItMeOh yeah man.Quote:
Originally Posted by QooEr
This.
My mind was blown recently when I learned how weak LB2 is.
Turns out LB2's animation is so long that any DPS (with CDs up) will do more damage in that time than an LB2 can. I had no idea I needed to prioritize my own CDs over LB2. I figured I could always throw out a limit break for DPS gain.
And LB1 has a short enough animation that it's actually super DPS efficient.
If you can't build an LB3, launching multiple LB1 is generally better for you unless you know you can weave an LB2 in when your CDs are down (or during a filler phase in your rotation).
This LB system is wack. -
12-28-2020, 02:52 AMOrdoric
My only issue here is I dont like the visual animations of the melee or caster dps. Yes monk dragoon and ninja all summon the buster sword.
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01-03-2021, 01:26 AMKyeria
I'd honestly just like to see the entire system revamped if possible.
A: Greatly reduce the effectiveness of limit breaks and make them player/individual specific.
B: Make the limit breaks job-specific instead of role-specific.- Obviously we can't have 6 healers in alliance raids with a party-wide Full Cure/Full Revive mechanic etc, etc.
C: Make them one time uses per run/attempt.- Make them more similar to 2-hour abilities from Final Fantasy XI in terms of power and uniqueness. Poor Examples Below - I realize these are unbalanced and unrealistic, it's just an example of the difference between "Role" Limits and individual limits.
- White Mage: Sacrosanct- Fully Restores HP&MP to all allies, and reduces incoming damage by 30% for 10 seconds. During this duration, the Lily cost and GCD for Solace & Rapture are ignored.
- Scholar: Faerie Circle - Eos/Selene mimic all of the Scholars Healing/Shield/Support abilities at a reduced potency and allowing shields to stack.
- Astrologian: Celestial Stasis- Freezes all enemies & active aoes on the battlefield for XYZ seconds and making all enemies/allies invulnerable to damage. During stasis, Synastry is applied to all allies - At the end of stasis, apply all effects of all Cards, Diurnal/Nocturnal Sect, Divination, and Horoscope to all allies at an increased potency and duration.
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01-03-2021, 02:17 AMItMeYou'd have to be careful with tank LBs though considering fights have been made assuming they all reduce damage by 80%Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyeria
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01-03-2021, 02:20 AMKyeriaAh, I didn't know that. I'm not into any end-game savage content yet which is where I'm assuming these mechanics are placed?Quote:
Originally Posted by ItMe
I would add to that though at least ( IMO ) that having a boss fight built around a limit break seems stupid and I'd rather see that dropped in place of unique limit breaks, lol. -
01-03-2021, 04:49 AMItMeThey're in Ex content too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyeria
For example, they're necessary in fights as recent as Seat of Sacrifice Ex.
That might be a valuable mindset going forward, but SQEX has shown they don't wanna change the way the old content functions. They like leaving/preserving older content so I dont think we can expect the raids that require tank LB3 to suddenly lose those parts, and if they did make unique limit breaks they'd def be made with these old requirements in mind so old fights don't become unclearable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyeria