Dungeon Finder System - Whats the problem?

I've seen multiple threads with people whining about the cross server dungeon finding system. And i really don't understand or see any of the points people make against the system as valid.

People say "It ruins the community".

THIS DOESN'T RUIN THE COMMUNITY. You can still do the same dungeons with the linkshell members or server. Hell, theres even content that specifically WON'T be world crossed, such as High NM's, Hamlet and other features they've mentioned that will be non instanced. This feature encourages play at any time of the day, which encourages more people to play regardless of time constraints. It keeps people PLAYING. More people playing = bigger communities.

Another "argument" is that you get bads in the group.

Guess what. Just because people are on your server, doesn't make them pro. WoW's dungeon finder system had a "Gear Level" requirement to weed out the inexperienced, undergeared types. It was rare that I was ever grouped with someone who didn't know the fights or griefed. And guess what, you still get that by forming groups on your own server.

Other people say "It hurts immersion".

Guess what, you can't FORCE people to stay segregated into their little shell if they don't want to. Immersion is a choice. For the less populated of servers during off-peak time (when they make new ones), having an option to play the content you need regardless of how many people are online is a pure asset and convienence.

We are living in a world where people have less time than ever to sit around waiting to assemble a party. All this feature does is bring people together.

Wether you like it or not, FFXIV is a casual game, and this feature caters to both casual and hardcore players who just want to do the dungeon without the time saping constraints of gathering a group.

Please, someone. Enlighten me as to why this feature is doomsday.

coz someone say so, and others just copy + paste

I will place what I said in another thread here:

I honestly do not get it.. How is Easy to get a party for said content "bad"? I mean what if this "content finder" just places you into a group of 8 people and then you just go there like you normally would, and not be plopped there? Of course people are going to use it, because its easier to do that, rather than to search for people. But there also something that people fail to see:

-For Harder content, people aren't going just "Get random people and wing it" they will use the PC search to search within there server, or have their own Linkshell to tackle the hader content down. That much is fact.
-For Exp, the only way to get Via Content finder is through dungeon content ( which we all know is pointless, but hey some people will use it for that as well, but its not the most Optimal way of getting exp.)
-For Exp parties, People will do what they would normally do "Use PC search to find people within their server to exp all around Eorzea.
-Frontlines (PvP) is Non-Instanced ( They are making it in a way that enemies won't interfere with non-participating players, so Content finder will most likely won't be used for this)

The only thing Content finder will be used for honestly is for the High-end content (sometimes). I say sometimes because some content.. you just can't do it with random members, so you have to do it within your home server, where you know everyone and what they do, to really get any of that accomplished.

Content Finder will only really be used if:

-Content is Easy enough to tackle down Via Random people
-If People dont have enough time to looking for "awesome people" and just want to get in a quick match before doing there real life duties or have other things planned.
-People that are impatient to find people on their Server, so they resort to content finder
-If it takes to long to finder people Via PC Search to do Content that's easy enough to tackle down with random people they will use it.

I been thinking about this all this morning while over my aunts house Drinking Coffee and randomly talking about it, I got her laughing a lot :P, All of what I said was me thinking for a couple of hours trying to find pros and cons.. but really there's isn't any cons.. You have to realize that there is going to be a lot of potential players of all types, not everyone is going to use content finder. Some people will use it some people won't, but its only made for Dungeons/Primals. If we all start out at lvl 1, we will be exploring the world as normal, because Content finder is made for.. well content! Exping isn't really content.. its just leveling up from point A to point B that's it.

In Conclusion, Content finder won't disrupt the balance of the community that some people say, because it's only ment for Easy/medium hard content (If people choose to use it for that). However, the harder content, I do not foresee people using the Content finder to get Random people to do hard content, unless they just want to kill time.

These are my thoughts for today on Content Finder!

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Content finder to allow input of information such as class, job, and level, to find other players across all
worlds for groups for dungeons, instanced raids, primal battles, etc.

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There really isn't a problem, just 3-4 people just don't understand the logic behind it, which is why I posted this long "essay like" paper on how Content finder won't hurt anything, Its an Option.. people say your FORCED into it, because they thing the whole community is going to use it. False again, refer to my List of reasons why it won't be that way in my long post above.

They just want to stir up trouble

Exactly. Players whining for the sake of whining. It's just stupid.

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Originally Posted by LazyBarakat

coz someone say so, and others just copy + past

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Lol that made me laugh, great points all around people, I'll distribute +1 when I get home, no option for it on the i browser.

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Originally Posted by Cendres

Lol that made me laugh, great points all around people, I'll distribute +1 when I get home, no option for it on the i browser.

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Actually it does work if push the star icon, wasn't working yesterday.... He he ;)

More like necrobumping for the sake of necrobumping.

I think the posts against the Dungeon Finder all come from like 3 people. lol

Nothing's wrong with content finder. It's just the "If Rokien doesn't like it, then no one should use it" mentality that gets tiresome :(

Yeah, they're coming from Rokien & Co. The Tea Party of MMO gaming.

In my case, it's more of a concern because I've not experienced a dungeon finder system before, and also because I worry as the most enjoyable part of the game for me is growing friendships over time by partying with them regularly - without the need for them to be in my linkshell. But it's a concern, not an outright rejection. I'm very interested in seeing how it all turns out, it will be an experience if anything. I have adored the Sargatanas community since I rejoined the game, and I hope that this does not impact it on any real level. Fingers crossed!

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Originally Posted by Loony_BoB

In my case, it's more of a concern because I've not experienced a dungeon finder system before, and also because I worry as the most enjoyable part of the game for me is growing friendships over time by partying with them regularly - without the need for them to be in my linkshell. But it's a concern, not an outright rejection. I'm very interested in seeing how it all turns out, it will be an experience if anything. I have adored the Sargatanas community since I rejoined the game, and I hope that this does not impact it on any real level. Fingers crossed!

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As someone who has now played two MMOs with a content finder, let me tell you that it was easier for me in those MMOs to make friends after the content finder than before. People in general wanted to play with others on their server because it meant that they would see them again. Granted I played a highly sought after role in WOW, but I would receive tells from 4-5 different people within a minute of logging in.

Content finder acts simply as a net for the people who don't have a good linkshell or friends, and who are having no luck shouting or recruiting from their local player pool.

I think some people just want to complain? Kinda like my two year old...she likes to whine to hear herself whine...seriously...

Makes my head hurt.

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Originally Posted by LillithaFenimore

I think some people just want to complain? Kinda like my two year old...she likes to whine to hear herself whine...seriously...

Makes my head hurt.

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Some people are just anti-progress man. I think most of the people who valued their sanity left the forums a long time ago. I'm only sticking around because I'm both masochistic and because I have this valiant mission of combatting people whose suggestions would harm this game in a serious way.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Some people are just anti-progress man. I think most of the people who valued their sanity left the forums a long time ago. I'm only sticking around because I'm both masochistic and because I have this valiant mission of combatting people whose suggestions would harm this game in a serious way.

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Yeah I can see that...

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

As someone who has now played two MMOs with a content finder, let me tell you that it was easier for me in those MMOs to make friends after the content finder than before. People in general wanted to play with others on their server because it meant that they would see them again. Granted I played a highly sought after role in WOW, but I would receive tells from 4-5 different people within a minute of logging in.

Content finder acts simply as a net for the people who don't have a good linkshell or friends, and who are having no luck shouting or recruiting from their local player pool.

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If people wanted to play with others on their server following the party finder being implemented, why would they want a party finder? Surely using a party finder is a method to party with people of other servers rather than their own? Sorry, a little confused, and perhaps a little naiive. xD

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Originally Posted by Avraym

I've seen multiple threads with people whining about the cross server dungeon finding system. And i really don't understand or see any of the points people make against the system as valid.

People say "It ruins the community".

THIS DOESN'T RUIN THE COMMUNITY. You can still do the same dungeons with the linkshell members or server. Hell, theres even content that specifically WON'T be world crossed, such as High NM's, Hamlet and other features they've mentioned that will be non instanced. This feature encourages play at any time of the day, which encourages more people to play regardless of time constraints. It keeps people PLAYING. More people playing = bigger communities.

Another "argument" is that you get bads in the group.

Guess what. Just because people are on your server, doesn't make them pro. WoW's dungeon finder system had a "Gear Level" requirement to weed out the inexperienced, undergeared types. It was rare that I was ever grouped with someone who didn't know the fights or griefed. And guess what, you still get that by forming groups on your own server.

Other people say "It hurts immersion".

Guess what, you can't FORCE people to stay segregated into their little shell if they don't want to. Immersion is a choice. For the less populated of servers during off-peak time (when they make new ones), having an option to play the content you need regardless of how many people are online is a pure asset and convienence.

We are living in a world where people have less time than ever to sit around waiting to assemble a party. All this feature does is bring people together.

Wether you like it or not, FFXIV is a casual game, and this feature caters to both casual and hardcore players who just want to do the dungeon without the time saping constraints of gathering a group.

Please, someone. Enlighten me as to why this feature is doomsday.

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On the community aspect, I do believe it'd hurt the community aspect of the game. The whole "hey I know that guy from x" or "don't party with x, he ninja loots stuff". Where it feels like a closer community instead of a bunch of random people who happen to inhabit the same world. Your actions make much more of an impact if you're stuck on your server and people know you from stuff like pick up groups. If you ninja loot or are a general asshole, people will find out about it and you might start getting a lot less invites to groups. With content finders that are cross-server your actions make much less of an impact because who cares? You're probably not going to see these people again and you have a shiny new sword. There's much more incentive to be a selfish asshole.

In addition, content finders work well with the type of content we have now: Spam a dungeon/encounter a shitton of times with their abysmally low drop rates and weather or not you're rewarded is mostly based upon luck. I'd like to see instances with cooldown timers of like 3-4 days but the drop rates are higher so almost every time your group runs it someone will get something or at least progress towards something. With a content finder if they do implement content like this, people will bitch about how they "got grouped with a bunch of bad players" or "so and so d/c'd" or whatever so "SE should make it so if you fail there's no lockout" or "if you use the content finder there's no lockout." or just "get rid of lockouts." People would bitch so much that SE would cave and comply to their requests because that's what the player base wants. Also "the content is too hard! no one can clear it in a pick up group make it easier QQ" so difficulty gets toned down. Then what's the point of linkshells? If you can spam content finder to get a group quickly and do the endgame content and get the best gear whenever you want instead of having to worry about linkshell schedules or if the right people are on, people will just not join linkshells and solo constantly.

Granted a lot of these reasons are implications but they're not baseless, it's happened in other games. I'd like to see FFXIV stay closer to party, group and community-oriented play instead of solo play. If I wanted to play a single player game I have plenty of choices out there, but I play this game, an MMO, to play with other people and be a part of a community.

I don't understand the problem either. If you want to run with friends run with friends. If they aren't available run with new people. Content finder just seems to make it easier to do the latter.

For those of us who haven't experienced it, it is a legitimate concern. Having never played a game with a content finder and hearing stories from WoW about people just standing in town and queuing, it does scare me that the game will turn into a lobby/full instance game.

Other than Odin, I can't think off the top of my head of any confirmed Open World content for 2.0 which only adds to the concerns. Obviously just hating something for the sake of it is stupid - as long as it is handled right I don't mind at all, but if handled wrong it is probably a deal breaker for me.

It really does hurt the community. Though I'm not going to cry too much because our community is pretty worthless as it is.

Everytime I've ever used a content finder in an MMO I never ever have spoken with the other party members. Also the social aspect of forming the party is removed. It also pushes MMOs closer to a First person shooter feel where all you do is sign up for a fight, Fight, win/lose, next fight. I thought MMOs were more than that.

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Originally Posted by Excer

Other than Odin, I can't think off the top of my head of any confirmed Open World content for 2.0 which only adds to the concerns. Obviously just hating something for the sake of it is stupid - as long as it is handled right I don't mind at all, but if handled wrong it is probably a deal breaker for me.

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This is also a major worry for me.

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Originally Posted by Loony_BoB

If people wanted to play with others on their server following the party finder being implemented, why would they want a party finder? Surely using a party finder is a method to party with people of other servers rather than their own? Sorry, a little confused, and perhaps a little naiive. xD

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The dungeon finder in WOW helped fill out the last 1-2 party slots with random people, and choosing the "random dungeon" option offered you a minor reward.

You know what I think? I think everyone is overreacting over the very very very very VERY Little info we have...

Dungeons and Primals are Instanced... THEY SHOULD BE IN A MMO!

Do we know anything else?

We have Open World.. whats going to be in the Open world? I'm sure they aren't just going to leave it there in the dust to rot... :/ I'm sure there's going to be a lot of questing involved, Grand Company missions, Free Company Missions, Frontline PvP.

Just refer to my Long post to see the details as to why I believe this is more than just an Instanced game!

Again all were doing is Over speculating, in which a lot of it is getting blown out of proportion!.. But that's the forums for ya right? :O

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Again all were doing is Over speculating, in which a lot of it is getting blown out of proportion!.. But that's the forums for ya right? :O

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I haven't seen anyone blow anything out of proportion ever on these forums. /sarcasm

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Originally Posted by Ruri

I haven't seen anyone blow anything out of proportion ever on these forums. /sarcasm

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Haha! "Color:White" You think I wouldn't Notice! :P hehe :p

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Originally Posted by Lyndis

It really does hurt the community. Though I'm not going to cry too much because our community is pretty worthless as it is.

Everytime I've ever used a content finder in an MMO I never ever have spoken with the other party members. Also the social aspect of forming the party is removed. It also pushes MMOs closer to a First person shooter feel where all you do is sign up for a fight, Fight, win/lose, next fight. I thought MMOs were more than that.

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Seem like you didn't need content finder to form an opinion of your community...........

Yes but theres nothing wrong with speculation, SE is showing us this info for a reason - to find out the playerbase's opinion. At least that's what I think, otherwise why only provide us with such a small amount of information?

There is nothing, from what I can remember reading, about any open world end game content. When I say this I mean zones like Sky, NMs, Besieged etc - with content finder we don't know to what extent it will be used which is where my concerns come from. As long as there is a fair balance between open/instanced and same-server/cross-server I will be fine with the implementation.

I recently returned to FFXIV a couple weeks ago; started with a fresh character. Needless to say, I'm far behind my new linkshell friends who are downing Ifrit and the King on a regular basis.

My highest class right now is 39, and I can't recall a time where I've seen someone shout for an instance grp. This would be helpful for me in tracking down players w/ the same current goals.

Standing in Uldah (where everyone seems to cluster up on Durandal) and shouting is not my idea of "immersion." Biggest recent example of this same Failure = SWTOR.

I say just deal with the dungeon finder. Whenever a "new MMO" released there are the exact same arguments as being said right now against AND for dungeon finder. This sounds like something YoshiP will not change his mind on. It benefits low population servers and non-peak server time activity. The benefits must outweigh the risks in YoshiP's mind.

All they have to do to promote community is add something like Blizzard's RealID (You don't have to show your full name anymore, battletags allows a username now) party. Say what you want about WoW, but that is an example of a great feature. It allows you to party with people on other servers of the same faction (no factions on FFXIV currently so this limitation doesn't exist at the moment) if you have them on your RealID list and queue for battlegrounds/dungeons/previous raid tiers together. You can still talk to them if they are the opposite faction. Made friends with someone doing a dungeon run? Ask them for their "RealID" details/authorization.

Besides, from what the community reps are saying, this is just for "instanced raids," this game won't completely turn into a lobby and queue game. Need more clarification on this feature.

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Originally Posted by Dianic

Standing in Uldah (where everyone seems to cluster up on Durandal) and shouting is not my idea of "immersion." Biggest recent example of this same Failure = SWTOR.

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Hilariously enough there are people fighting in the SWTOR forums against group search because it would also 'ruin' the community... We all know it does not and we're all okay with it so far as to expect it because it was in XI.... Same thing with this dungeon/content finder thing. It's not the end of any universe.