More flavorful dialogue choices in the future

Dear SE,
Not all of us look at our toons and see a noble "warrior of light" hero and all that blah blah blah

I am a murder hobo. Point me at what you want dead and pay me, or else.

Along those lines, can we get more insulting and "mercenary" dialogue choices in the future? Most of the npc's are idiots and I would love to tell them that. When an NPC asks me to fight for their great and noble cause? My preferred response, "I get paid right?"

Being good all the time is 1-dimensional and boring AF. Let us be bad too. Some people will still want to see the goody-goody response choices and keep those, but really try balancing it out with mercenary and mean too.

And if I can smack Alphinaud in the head every damn time I answer him. That would be a bonus too.

You might get some 'sassy' or teasingly 'mean' comments, but mercenary, cold, and cruel ones? No. Not at this point. Story wise you've gone too far to be doing what you're doing, to still be just another dick mercenary. The MSQ is set up for you to play the role of the good hearted hero, and it doesn't really bend to what you really want your character to be.

You get paid? I'm just here to blow shit up. The money's kinda not even a factor.

But yes. Alphinaud needs smacked upside the head once in a while. Nice that his sister has been along more, she just about fits the purpose.

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Originally Posted by Kidria

You might get some 'sassy' or teasingly 'mean' comments, but mercenary, cold, and cruel ones? No. Not at this point. Story wise you've gone too far to be doing what you're doing, to still be just another dick mercenary. The MSQ is set up for you to play the role of the good hearted hero, and it doesn't really bend to what you really want your character to be.

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I really dont agree with this. Our characters motivations are left extremely vague, its up to the player to decide what their characters motivations are. If its money or bloodlust, so what if the rest of the world views you as some good samaritan? You're in it for yourself.

So yes, i do think there is room for cold or cruel dialogue options. We should have more than just 3 different ways of saying yes.

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Originally Posted by VenKitsune

I really dont agree with this. Our characters motivations are left extremely vague, its up to the player to decide what their characters motivations are. If its money or bloodlust, so what if the rest of the world views you as some good samaritan? You're in it for yourself.

So yes, i do think there is room for cold or cruel dialogue options. We should have more than just 3 different ways of saying yes.

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I don't think they're that vague at all, esp at this point. You could say it's a problem of the not-varied responses and 'choices' we've had. It's also under the assumption you're still around doing this because you're that 'good samaritan' and you do view the Scions as friends/family. If the personality the OP wants to express is what the character has, they would not be in the role they are in. The benefits and perks really don't outweigh the risks and losses.

Basically we've already been shoehorned into the role and I don't see them giving optional choices that could undo that, aside from being a sass or teasing. Especially with the whole "gone through hell and back and came home with stronger friendship bonds" ShB had. I'm sure there could be a "I should get a paycheck" humor option but it wouldn't be written in the way the OP would want.

That’s all part of the running gag at this point. FF as a franchise is if nothing else an extremely railroady RPG series that is more interactive movie than not.

There is a reason NPCs poke fun at our neck muscles, or even the Nier quest,one where some answers were a joke (along the lines of “not like I have a choice anyway”).

I get what your after, but if the story needs to flow in a specific direction, there are just some archetypes that wouldn’t work.

Not saying I disagree with you, just that the game really isn’t built for this. There was more than one occasion I wanted to absolutely destroy an NPC and disintegrate whatever corpse remained... but noooo, gotta be the better person.

Were this open world, I would have made my peace with Ul’dah’s syndicate at 3.0 launch. And by made my peace I mean May they Rest In Peace.

Quietly nod yes.

I mentioned this in another thread but I would love if we could select a "personality" in character creation...maybe to replace the part where we select a god (does the deity do anything since Stormblood even?)

Personality could bring up different dialogue options (without actually changing anything, these never change anything) and would replace some of the animations our characters do in cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Kidria

You might get some 'sassy' or teasingly 'mean' comments, but mercenary, cold, and cruel ones? No. Not at this point. Story wise you've gone too far to be doing what you're doing, to still be just another dick mercenary. The MSQ is set up for you to play the role of the good hearted hero, and it doesn't really bend to what you really want your character to be.

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How many fates have you participated in that involved riding into a settlement of NPC's that were minding their own business and massacring them? Their crime? They are ugly and dared to be independent of the dictators we serve. No warnings. No negotiations. No survivors. Some gil thankyouverymuch.

Even the MSQ's can easily include a mass murderer, who just happens to be on our side and that makes him/her a "hero". Is "our side" the good guys? Dude, every side thinks they are the good guys.

So yes, I would like dialogue choices that reflect that point-of-view.

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Originally Posted by Kidria

You might get some 'sassy' or teasingly 'mean' comments, but mercenary, cold, and cruel ones? No. Not at this point. Story wise you've gone too far to be doing what you're doing, to still be just another dick mercenary. The MSQ is set up for you to play the role of the good hearted hero, and it doesn't really bend to what you really want your character to be.

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This. Whether you like it or not the WoL has developed a personality as of ShB and it's incredibly sassy and a touch 'I lick rocks' levels of absurd. They're only going to let us be edgelords if it's to make a joke at our expense. Case in point, the ONE time SCH got a specific shout out during the Eden questline and could act all smarty-pants immediately resulted in Urianger calling us on our shit.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/35382886...0199f27f40.png
https://i.gyazo.com/e3fe52091ae816be...5a98500b37.png

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Originally Posted by kaynide

or even the Nier quest,one where some answers were a joke (along the lines of “not like I have a choice anyway”).

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-dOmu-X4AAS1ml.jpg

I still love that line. But I'm a sucker for tongue-in-cheek lampshade-hanging.

*stoic nod*

“Hey guys. Can you guys put in dialogue choices so I can rp as literally the worst D&D/Role playing game stereotype?”

How about no.

'Fairly' solid grasp. Hebe

I see what you did there.

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Originally Posted by Razard

“Hey guys. Can you guys put in dialogue choices so I can rp as literally the worst D&D/Role playing game stereotype?”

How about no.

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It'd be entirely optional and you'd have the ability to simply...not pick the dialogue options that you dislike. I wouldn't pick them myself, though I also don't pick the options that make the Warrior of Darkness come across as utterly stupid. For those who find such things hilarious, though, it's an option. So there's minimal downside to adding further choices as to how our character chooses to react to situations.

It's also completely subjective as to whether it's the 'worst' stereotype in the first place. Personally I'd consider the obsession with 'zany' characters to be far more irritating but that's just me.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It'd be entirely optional and you'd have the ability to simply...not pick the dialogue options that you dislike. I wouldn't pick them myself, though I also don't pick the options that make the Warrior of Darkness come across as utterly stupid. For those who find such things hilarious, though, it's an option. So there's minimal downside to adding further choices as to how our character chooses to react to situations.

It's also completely subjective as to whether it's the 'worst' stereotype in the first place. Personally I'd consider the obsession with 'zany' characters to be far more irritating but that's just me.

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The problem is with people like that, they can't understand why different people enjoy different things, hence you get the negative and narrow-minded responses like his. Much as he may protest otherwise, it's clear to me that he is utterly incapable of putting himself in the shoes of others and tries to hide this through the veil of "literally the worst" to try shut it down.

For people who just want RPGs to be feel-good hugboxes and utilise the euphemism of "heroic fantasy" to describe this (as if these don't have their own darker elements), of course anything veering off that course - which many of us enjoy in other RPGs - is anathema.

The dialogue choices are already fine as they are. Give me branching dialogues and maybe slightly different outcomes instead. You know, real choice.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

The problem is with people like that, they can't understand why different people enjoy different things, hence you get the negative and narrow-minded responses like his. Much as he may protest otherwise, it's clear to me that he is utterly incapable of putting himself in the shoes of others and tries to hide this through the veil of "literally the worst" to try shut it down.

For people who just want RPGs to be feel-good hugboxes and utilise the euphemism of "heroic fantasy" to describe this (as if these don't have their own darker elements), of course anything veering off that course - which many of us enjoy in other RPGs - is anathema.

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Adorable.

Or it would go against the established tone of the setting and themes. No matter what you or Mr."Garleans did nothing wrong" think.

Just a thought dearie :)

Ah, you're one of those types. That explains it.

I suppose you're free to pretend as though the game is lacking in nuance and different perspectives if that makes you happy, though not everybody is going to stand with you on that.

Yup, as and when it suits, the "established tone" is muh hugbox "heroic fantasy". Adult daycare with rainbows.

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Originally Posted by Razard

“Hey guys. Can you guys put in dialogue choices so I can rp as literally the worst D&D/Role playing game stereotype?”

How about no.

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But its OK to RP literally the worst story telling character trope? You know, that perfect, never does anything wrong, always succeeds, every NPC gushes over how awesome he/she is Mary Sue character? There's no growth. No suspense. It's boring. That's your character. My character. Everyone's character.

So yes, RPing an individual who is flawed is way more interesting and believable. You should be so lucky as to role play a "Murder Hobo". Its leagues ahead of anything we have now.

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Originally Posted by EmmetOtter

But its OK to RP literally the worst story telling character trope? You know, that perfect, never does anything wrong, always succeeds, every NPC gushes over how awesome he/she is Mary Sue character? There's no growth. No suspense. It's boring. That's your character. My character. Everyone's character.

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I mean, if you ignore all the times the WoL does fail (the bloody banquet in Ul'dah, Haurchefant's death, jobbing to Zenos twice and later to Ran'jit, among others), or does do something wrong (recruiting known traitor Laurentius into the Crystal Braves, keeping the poison vial that gets used as evidence in the aformentioned bloody banquet, attacking Zenos in Doma when secrecy was our entire reason to be there in the first place, etc). The dark knight story is literally about how our character has PTSD from all the horrible crap they go through all the time. And those signs of trauma don't just magically disappear when the scene ends; check the scene where we have dinner at Aymeric's mansion. Even in as safe a place as can be, the WoL is still leery of someone pouring a drink for them after they got poisoned at the peace conference.

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So yes, RPing an individual who is flawed is way more interesting and believable. You should be so lucky as to role play a "Murder Hobo". Its leagues ahead of anything we have now.

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The question is how "flawed" do we get before it becomes just as unbelievable the other way. Murderhobos are, if anything, even less believable than a good hero, because there's no reason at all that someone else wouldn't kick our face in for it. Either the combined forces of good would put us down like a mad dog, or we'd crush them all and swing completely into Mary Sue territory.

It'd be an optional dialogue choice that people could avoid picking if they do not feel that it reflects their character's personality. Much the same way that if their character isn't silly, then they can avoid picking the dialogue options that are clearly written to be that way.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It'd be an optional dialogue choice that people could avoid picking if they do not feel that it reflects their character's personality. Much the same way that if their character isn't silly, then they can avoid picking the dialogue options that are clearly written to be that way.

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It's a waste of coding time. Some of the choice dialogue I envision the OP desiring would be anathema to the game itself, and would certainly create a reputation as "that kind of game".

While we are at it, can I have an option in-game to turn all of the characters and scenery into World of Warcraft clones? It would be optional, and a toggle, so only those who chose it would see it? Can I, huh, can I?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It'd be an optional dialogue choice that people could avoid picking if they do not feel that it reflects their character's personality. Much the same way that if their character isn't silly, then they can avoid picking the dialogue options that are clearly written to be that way.

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The problem here is that the WoL isn't /our/ character. Much in the same way that Shepard from Mass Effect doesn't truly belong to the player either, Paragon or Renegade. The WoL has a base personality of a hero that is kept throughout the storyline - a snarky, tired, and PTSD ridden hero but a hero none the less. Having this basic template in mind is useful when writing scenarios for the WoL and how they'd react within a certain frame of reference.

What OP is asking for is to have the option to make the WoL basically be so completely unaligned with the heroes' journey the WoL is taking that at a certain point you'd have to wonder why they'd even be participating in the plot to begin with. Or, more importantly, why the Scion's would be okay with it either because I can't see any of them willingly working with such a character based on their reactions to known murder hobos in the actual narrative. Which then would cause debate about why we can't change the story to fit us better and it's just one hell of a slippery slope that doesn't need to be considered.

You can headcanon your WoL as being different, I certainly do, but from a pure writing perspective it's a recipe for disaster if the writers start trying to accommodate everyone when they've already built the basis of a personality to help their narrative along.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

It's a waste of coding time. Some of the choice dialogue I envision the OP desiring would be anathema to the game itself, and would certainly create a reputation as "that kind of game".

While we are at it, can I have an option in-game to turn all of the characters and scenery into World of Warcraft clones? It would be optional, and a toggle, so only those who chose it would see it? Can I, huh, can I?

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Anything I don't like = waste of coding time.

Okay.

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Originally Posted by EmmetOtter

Dear SE,
Not all of us look at our toons and see a noble "warrior of light" hero and all that blah blah blah

I am a murder hobo. Point me at what you want dead and pay me, or else.

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Perhaps you are that, but the main character in FF14 is not. There are games where you can play a bad guy. This is not one of those games, nor is it supposed to be,

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Perhaps you are that, but the main character in FF14 is not. There are games where you can play a bad guy. This is not one of those games, nor is it supposed to be,

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I mean, i kinda do want to revive amaurot but only cause then i would regain my whole power, and having enough aether to summon with a simply thought and a snap of my fingers sounds more fun, plus i will be able to recreate every spell in existence. Man i wish i could be unnerfed summoner

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Originally Posted by EmmetOtter

How many fates have you participated in that involved riding into a settlement of NPC's that were minding their own business and massacring them? Their crime? They are ugly and dared to be independent of the dictators we serve. No warnings. No negotiations. No survivors. Some gil thankyouverymuch.

Even the MSQ's can easily include a mass murderer, who just happens to be on our side and that makes him/her a "hero". Is "our side" the good guys? Dude, every side thinks they are the good guys.

So yes, I would like dialogue choices that reflect that point-of-view.

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I don't recall any such FATEs, and if you're referring to the beast tribes, the ones being attacked are aligned with their primal and would kill the rest of us if given the chance. The only other one I can think of is the Hive in the Shroud, and those are known lawbreakers and criminals.

I'm not saying we have to be complete goody-goody, but the 'mass murderer' who actually DELIGHTS in that, is not going to fit any of the MSQ tones. You're basically Zenos at that point, you just happen to want to be paid instead of doing it for 100% pleasure. It doesn't fit, and the dialogue choices to convey that, would not be appropriate. The Scions would not stand for it, and they are also protagonists in this tale. If you portrayed that personality, the Exarch and the others of the ruined timeline wouldn't go through so much shit to revive you.

You have to think of the context, theme and tone of the story as well, not just the character you're being inserted into.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

...or does do something wrong (recruiting known traitor Laurentius into the Crystal Braves...)

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That was a terrible outcome, yes, but our mistake of judgement wasn't with him.

I'm certain he was genuine at that point. Trying to turn over a new leaf. And what do we do? Invite him into the worst kind of company that twists his weak-willed self right back into villainy.

And then there was Wilred...