Really hope next savage tier is delayed.

Just like on the start of the expansion. I hope savage is delayed 1-2 weeks so raiders like myself don't have to rush, rush.
To unlock savage as fast as possible and ignore everything and skip cut scenes from the normal mode.

they won't. savage is only delayed for the first tier.

Unless you're participating in the world-first race, I don't really see why you'd feel the need to skip through the ~1 hour of normal-mode content. That's a very small subset of people.

well, then don't skip the scenes. enjoy the game story that you paid for. idk what else to say.

Or if you're not in a WF static, but they want to start progging immediately and you're in a situation where yo work all day and come home and would rather enjoy the cutscenes... just communicate that with your static?

Nothing is forcing you to rush.

So just because you feel like savage mode must be tackled the first day it is available (to the extent that you feel like you must skip all other content in order to rush it) or else it presumably just isn't worth doing, that means it should be delayed for everyone else just to accommodate you?

Sounds like the epitome of selfishness to me.

This seems pretty reasonable to me. The difference between the first tier and second/third tiers is actually quite noticeable. With the first tier you have time to take in the normal fights and enjoy them, they're not immediately mechanically and - in terms of gearing - obsolete, and you get a window to gear up to the base ilvl that the Savage fights require. Then, when the Savages unlock, if you're not in a static then you don't feel pressured because you've had time to take everything in. The second tier is a lot less enjoyable to start, in my opinion. If, like a lot of people, you want to try and enjoy the fights before guides have dropped, then you're pushed into grabbing the new crafted gear immediately, melding it and rushing through the story, all so you can hit the savage fights before everybody knows how to do them. Like, yeah, you're not forced to rush but when the first tier is already doing this and people who, for whatever reason, can't join a static get a more pleasant experience (and people in statics don't get a worse one) then it doesn't exactly seem too unreasonable?

Unless you are world first you don't need to rush the story of the normal mode. I know my group does the normal content release day and then we wait a day or two and start it. Really you have a whole week to get it done, unless you're getting paid to rush and beat it, beating it later in the week is no different. Same rewards.

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Originally Posted by phantomr23

If, like a lot of people, you want to try and enjoy the fights before guides have dropped, then you're pushed into grabbing the new crafted gear immediately, melding it and rushing through the story, all so you can hit the savage fights before everybody knows how to do them.

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You shouldn't need to rush through Normal mode to do Savage before guides are released, especially if you're in a static, as they're not released that fast.

I'd rather not see yet more content delayed when it's already stretched so thinly. Compared to how much 'meat' there is in MMO's such as WoW and ESO whenever a new content patch goes live, it's a real shame to see FFXIV shy away from releasing everything all at once.

Sorry but "I can't/don't want to do X, so nobody should be able to do X." sounds almost comically entitled. You know that the next raid tier exists until the end of the expansion, right? If you don't want to do week 1 prog then just don't, nothing is forcing you to.

Granted, I'm not a hardcore content person, but I don't really see the issue with putting Savage back a couple of weeks. It's gives everyone a chance to do the rest of the content and gear up as necessary without having to skip through other content they may want to do just to get to Savage ASAP. Even people within the more hardcore community who do chase world firsts have said this and it's not like being a world first chaser means you have no interest in the rest of the game.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

Granted, I'm not a hardcore content person, but I don't really see the issue with putting Savage back a couple of weeks. It's gives everyone a chance to do the rest of the content and gear up as necessary without having to skip through other content they may want to do just to get to Savage ASAP. Even people within the more hardcore community who do chase world firsts have said this and it's not like being a world first chaser means you have no interest in the rest of the game.

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Neither does day 1 savage keep you from enjoying the content. You want to do world first progression? You have to make some sacrifices for it or you simply take it easy, there's nothing but bragging rights in being one of the first people to beat the newest savage tier, and once you're done you can simply go back to the rest of the content that you enjoy. That's the reason the raids are tied to side-stories, so you don't have to rush through the MSQ just because you want to raid.


I don't do day 1 prog either but I'm not gonna run around and demand that nobody is allowed to. I also honestly don't see why savage should be even more timegated when the other content isn't, should we maybe do that with the MSQ as well? Let you do half of it on patch day but for the most interesting part, and probably the story trial, you'll have to wait 2 weeks for it to be unlocked?

It really depends if the handful who do day 1 Savage actually enjoy it being available immediately, or if it's more that they enjoy the race itself and the rush to get crafted gear and skip through Normal mode is a necessary sacrifice to enjoy that race. If it's the second, then delaying Savage a week doesn't really hurt anyone.

I think we should be listening to opinions and feedback from actual world first racers, instead of people who barely dabble in Savage or haven't even ran it stating how it should be to dig for upvotes when it doesn't even affect them.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I think we should be listening to opinions and feedback from actual world first racers, instead of people who barely dabble in Savage or haven't even ran it stating how it should be to dig for upvotes when it doesn't even affect them.

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Delayed content affects everybody, though. Pushing content back results in a likely delay for everything planned to go live later on. To say nothing of the fact that the development cycle has already been thrown off course by Covid-19.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It really depends if the handful who do day 1 Savage actually enjoy it being available immediately, or if it's more that they enjoy the race itself and the rush to get crafted gear and skip through Normal mode is a necessary sacrifice to enjoy that race. If it's the second, then delaying Savage a week doesn't really hurt anyone.

I think we should be listening to opinions and feedback from actual world first racers, instead of people who barely dabble in Savage or haven't even ran it stating how it should be to dig for upvotes when it doesn't even affect them.

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Actually, it does affect other people because delaying Savage would also delay release of new tomestone.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Neither does day 1 savage keep you from enjoying the content. You want to do world first progression? You have to make some sacrifices for it or you simply take it easy, there's nothing but bragging rights in being one of the first people to beat the newest savage tier, and once you're done you can simply go back to the rest of the content that you enjoy. That's the reason the raids are tied to side-stories, so you don't have to rush through the MSQ just because you want to raid.


I don't do day 1 prog either but I'm not gonna run around and demand that nobody is allowed to. I also honestly don't see why savage should be even more timegated when the other content isn't, should we maybe do that with the MSQ as well? Let you do half of it on patch day but for the most interesting part, and probably the story trial, you'll have to wait 2 weeks for it to be unlocked?

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I mean, Day 1 prog would still exist though, no? The only difference between Savage Tier 1 / Ultimates and the other 2 Savage tiers is that they have no gap between the release of the best gear available to start the raids and the raids themselves. The world prog for the first tier of Savage isn't diminished or anything, it just has a small gap between the normals and the Savages that make it ever so slightly less of a rush to prep.

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Delayed content affects everybody, though. Pushing content back results in a likely delay for everything planned to go live later on. To say nothing of the fact that the development cycle has already been thrown off course by Covid-19.

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That's slightly less the case here - the updates in 5.0 weren't affected by them dropping Savage two weeks after normal. Worst case they'd bundle it in with 5.41, for example, which would clash with Ishgard Restoration, but realistically they could do 5.405 and have the base patch drop, then the Savages drop a week later, then 5.42 (or insert any future even patch set here).

The pandemic is delaying content by a noticeable margin, so wish granted I guess?

Obviously a troll .

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I think we should be listening to opinions and feedback from actual world first racers, instead of people who barely dabble in Savage or haven't even ran it stating how it should be to dig for upvotes when it doesn't even affect them.

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Similar to the OP, it's super entitled of you to think that the opinions of "world first" (rofl) raiders should be the only ones that matter.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Actually, it does affect other people because delaying Savage would also delay release of new tomestone.

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That's the thing though.
NM gear and crafted gear become obsolete(unless you're rich enough to pentameld) because savage is released same day. Crafters have to rush get the new mats for their group and everything ready its quite hectic, it totally kicks anybody not rich as well to even buy the crafted gear. Which can be fixed if savage was delayed 2 weeks so they can at least have some normal mode pieces as an alternative to the crafted gear they can't afford. There are no downsides waiting at least two weeks for savage.
It gives everybody an equal amount of time to prepare.
Also they wouldn't have to delay the tomestones? you know we get 2 new dungeons every even patch...wait..I forget. I hardly do dungeon.

Hmm, some people here seem to be conflating "world first race" with "day 1 raiders." Plenty of people like to raid day 1 but have no intention of trying to get world first. These people typically do it because they just enjoy the raids and the experience of progging day 1/week 1. Instead of getting up at the crack of dawn on release day, they go through their normal daily routine and then meet up with their static that night to begin going through the new fights.

These people do not need savage to be pushed back. Why would they? They already have their raiding schedules set up before the tier ever comes out, pushing it back or not won't change the hours they plan on raiding. Prior to raid time, they can simply use any free time they have to go through the other stuff they want, then meet up with their crew at the designated time to go into the savage version.

Do the people who care about trying to get world first need savage to be pushed back? I'm no mind reader, but I doubt it tbh. Even if they did, I still wouldn't agree with it, because there's no reason why all the other people who like to raid day 1 but *don't* feel the need to try to world first it should have to wait just so that people who actively take it upon themselves to prioritize savage above all else should not ever have to make any sacrifices to do so.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

That's the thing though.
NM gear and crafted gear become obsolete(unless you're rich enough to pentameld) because savage is released same day. Crafters have to rush get the new mats for their group and everything ready its quite hectic, it totally kicks anybody not rich as well to even buy the crafted gear. Which can be fixed if savage was delayed 2 weeks so they can at least have some normal mode pieces as an alternative to the crafted gear they can't afford. There are no downsides waiting at least two weeks for savage.
It gives everybody an equal amount of time to prepare.
Also they wouldn't have to delay the tomestones? you know we get 2 new dungeons every even patch...wait..I forget. I hardly do dungeon.

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Because then people have higher ilvls than expected. There's a reason tome and savage release on the same day.

They would have to push the tome gear release.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Similar to the OP, it's super entitled of you to think that the opinions of "world first" (rofl) raiders should be the only ones that matter.

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We're talking about an issue that directly concerns the world-first race; Of course people with direct experience with the matter are going to have more valuable opinions.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Similar to the OP, it's super entitled of you to think that the opinions of "world first" (rofl) raiders should be the only ones that matter.

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Entitled to what? I'm not a "world first" raider and never plan to be and don't really care that much if Savage is available week one or not. It's a subject that really has very little impact for the regular player.

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We're talking about an issue that directly concerns the world-first race; Of course people with direct experience with the matter are going to have more valuable opinions.

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And that's precisely what makes it entitled.

World firsters (rofl) are not the only people who do savage.

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Entitled to what? I'm not a "world first" raider and never plan to be and don't really care that much if Savage is available week one or not. It's a subject that really has very little impact for the regular player.

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Having content you want to play arbitrarily rolled back for 2 weeks when it doesn't have to be is impacting you, whether you are willing to raise a stink about it or not.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

And that's precisely what makes it entitled.

World firsters (rofl) are not the only people who do savage.



Having content you want to play arbitrarily rolled back for 2 weeks when it doesn't have to be is impacting you, whether you are willing to raise a stink about it or not.

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You're assuming that people participating in the world-first race would be supportive of a delay, which in my experience generally isn't the case.

Also the constant inclusion of (rofl) makes it seem like you have some kind of personal issue with high-end players, and severely undermines whatever point you're trying to make.

I don't think there's any real need to push savage back, though I guess I don't really mind either way, I don't have a dog in this hunt. But if I did have to take a side, I feel like it's not particularly necessary. Also crafters would hate it because they tend to make a lot of gil off selling gear during week one, but if savage was pushed back a week, then raiders could skip either chest or legs and just get the tomestone version which is higher ilvl, which would cut into crafters' profits.

The story isn't really going anywhere, unless you are like raiding constantly for the entire week, you can presumably find 1-2 hours to do the MSQ within week one.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

You're assuming that people participating in the world-first race would be supportive of a delay, which in my experience generally isn't the case. .

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In your experience? Maybe. But actually a vast amount of them would love a delay so they can do other content and enjoy the story before we hardcore prog.

How I see it is, they would delay the new capped tomestones along with savage like they do with the 1st tier, that alone affects far more people negatively as they have to wait longer to get the new gear, than the positives that come to those who benefit from a small delay in savage.

This is actually something I'm sure the devs have already done the risk assessment themselves on, or we probably would've seen something by now.

Also this current PvP season came with the patch should anything and everything get delayed because people want to enjoy everything else at their pace, no, sometimes you have to pick your battles on what is important to you, getting to savage asap(which are the only people who suffer right now from this issue) or enjoy story mode then hop into savage after(my old raid group did this, people couldn't get on before raid times so decided that 1st raid night, which was always Tuesday, we would do story and everyone can watch at their own pace if we got to savage in raid time, yay, if not we go in starting next raid night and generally better strategies as well)

No one is forced to rush anything so... No.

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You're assuming that people participating in the world-first race would be supportive of a delay, which in my experience generally isn't the case.

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I'm talking about the ones that are. You're making assumptions about my argument.

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Also the constant inclusion of (rofl) makes it seem like you have some kind of personal issue with high-end players, and severely undermines whatever point you're trying to make.

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{That's too bad.}
read: I don't care.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I'm talking about the ones that are. You're making assumptions about my argument.


{That's too bad.}
read: I don't care.

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My dude, I (think) I agree with you on whether to delay savage or not, but you are kinda coming off like a douchebag.

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My dude, I (think) I agree with you on whether to delay savage or not, but you are kinda coming off like a douchebag.

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Read the last two lines of my previous post again if you want my response.

I have always been a serial cutscene skipper. That is until lately when I made an alt and rewatched the whole of FF14 from level 1-80. So my solution (albeit not really Something I’m suggesting as a global solution) was to make a second character. Thus on patch day I rushed through the story and such, got myself raid ready, did all my crafting. Then when I have more time (work, family life etc permitting) is go back and enjoy the story at my leisure. I agree with the OP. Those who want to raid or are in a static and yet have busy work lives do feel compelled and more rushed into skipping. You don’t need to be in a world first race, there’s people who have statics because that’s what suits their life styles.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

That's the thing though.
NM gear and crafted gear become obsolete(unless you're rich enough to pentameld) because savage is released same day. Crafters have to rush get the new mats for their group and everything ready its quite hectic, it totally kicks anybody not rich as well to even buy the crafted gear. Which can be fixed if savage was delayed 2 weeks so they can at least have some normal mode pieces as an alternative to the crafted gear they can't afford. There are no downsides waiting at least two weeks for savage.
It gives everybody an equal amount of time to prepare.
Also they wouldn't have to delay the tomestones? you know we get 2 new dungeons every even patch...wait..I forget. I hardly do dungeon.

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You talk about wanting to not make NM and crafted gears obsolete, but want to make tomestone gears available before Savage? That would make them even more obsolete and that's why SE won't do that.

In fact, SE probably would also delay crafted gears if they also delay Savage. So it's not just tomestone gears being affected.

Really, the solution is already available: don't rush. And if you'd rather get NM gears instead of going full set of crafted gears, then do that.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

We're talking about an issue that directly concerns the world-first race; Of course people with direct experience with the matter are going to have more valuable opinions.

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Direct experience means less in this case because it affects people outside of that experience, especially since the issue is a player-created problem.

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Originally Posted by linayar

You talk about wanting to not make NM and crafted gears obsolete, but want to make tomestone gears available before Savage? That would make them even more obsolete and that's why SE won't do that.

In fact, SE probably would also delay crafted gears if they also delay Savage. So it's not just tomestone gears being affected.

Really, the solution is already available: don't rush. And if you'd rather get NM gears instead of going full set of crafted gears, then do that.

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Not really. Because sometimes crafted pentameld is better than a non upgraded piece from tome and not the mention you can only buy like 1 piece in 2 weeks...or two? but if you buy two it's most likely acc which you're not gonna do because crafted acc is way better if you 5 sloted.
Also with savage, you can get fulled decked out in the highest ilv (granted if your static feeds you.)
Though overall, yeah guess it IS probably best if the tomes came in the savage patch if it does get delay to avoid being too geared for the first fight (not that it will carry you)

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Not really. Because sometimes crafted pentameld is better than a non upgraded piece from tome and not the mention you can only buy like 1 piece in 2 weeks...or two? but if you buy two it's most likely acc which you're not gonna do because crafted acc is way better if you 5 sloted.
Also with savage, you can get fulled decked out in the highest ilv (granted if your static feeds you.)

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This just shows that a static already has the freedom to do what it needs to without having to delay Savage.

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Though overall, yeah guess it IS probably best if the tomes came in the savage patch if it does get delay to avoid being too geared for the first fight (not that it will carry you)

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And that's why there is value to not delaying Savage.