Elementals and the Shroud

My understanding (perhaps incorrect, as I haven't played CNJ since I don't enjoy healers) is the Elementals are supposed to be a universal force found all over the world. So was it ever explained why they were so much more concentrated and active in the Black Shroud compared to anywhere else?

As far as I am aware, they are only located within the Black Shroud. The Elementals differ from normal elementals in that they are like guardian spirits specifically watching over and policing the Black Shroud. Prior to 2.0 angering them invoked the Green Wrath, which varied from having Treants rip you apart to having an Elemental physically manifest and melt you in a green hazy cloud. This is supposedly the reason that Gridanians wear masks, so that if they do invoke the Green Wrath, The Elementals won't be able to recognize who done it.

After the Calamity with Bahamut, the Shroud was damaged, and this in turn weakened The Elementals, such that all they can really do now is communicate with the Padjali to try and exercise their will. One interesting thing about the aspect of having The Elementals around is that typical Gridanians use them as a way to shun outsiders and pick and choose from refugees, such as when the folks at Quarrymill shunned the male Ala Mhigan refugees, but accepted the females, "Because The Elementals willed it."

The elementals being found throughout the entirety of creation (and thus throughout Eorzea) was old 1.0 lore that may still be current or not - it was meant to explain why elementals could actually be found and fought as enemies gameplay wise in every zone of the game. ARR though kind of altered that in elementals as enemies were replaced by the non-sentinent 'sprites' encountered everywhere (it's interesting to note these particular later enemies were actually called 'elementals' earlier in FFXI) and it was kind of retconned that the Calamity seemed to depower them in a sense so they now remain generally out of sight (two showed up during the level 30 CNJ class quest fight in ARR, or did, I did the CNJ class quests back in 2013 so I have no idea if SE has kept this intact or not).

There was never as far I know any explanation given as to why the elementals are more focused and potent within the Black Shroud, but given the Shroud's close proximity to Mor Dhona (and thus, Lake Silvertear), which is the nexus point of the rivers of aether within Hydaelyn, it's possible this may have resulted in them being more concentrated there by default.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

One interesting thing about the aspect of having The Elementals around is that typical Gridanians use them as a way to shun outsiders and pick and choose from refugees, such as when the folks at Quarrymill shunned the male Ala Mhigan refugees, but accepted the females, "Because The Elementals willed it."

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That's multiple unfounded assumptions together there.

What we know is that some refugees were accepted, some rejected, "according to the will of the elementals". The one accepted refugee we talk to is female. Meffrid's rejected group are all male as far as we see.

That does not mean there was a selection based on gender, and certainly doesn't mean the Gridanians are lying when they say that it's the will of the elementals.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

(two showed up during the level 30 CNJ class quest fight in ARR, or did, I did the CNJ class quests back in 2013 so I have no idea if SE has kept this intact or not).

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Yes, they still appear. I noticed them recently.

They can also be encountered in Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That's multiple unfounded assumptions together there.

What we know is that some refugees were accepted, some rejected, "according to the will of the elementals". The one accepted refugee we talk to is female. Meffrid's rejected group are all male as far as we see.

That does not mean there was a selection based on gender, and certainly doesn't mean the Gridanians are lying when they say that it's the will of the elementals.

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It's not an assumption. A sidequest in Quarrymill has a Wood Wailer or God's Quiver pretty much admit to it. Nothing's unfounded about it at all. Gridania's only real flaw is its citzenry's fear/hate of outsiders.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

It's not an assumption. A sidequest in Quarrymill has a Wood Wailer or God's Quiver pretty much admit to it. Nothing's unfounded about it at all. Gridania's only real flaw is its citzenry's fear/hate of outsiders.

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You're going to have to source that one. I've been looking through the South Shroud MSQ and sidequest dialogue and can find nothing of the sort. The only thing I see is a Hearer saying that the Elementals have not given them permission to heal the Resistance soldiers.

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Originally Posted by Annana

You're going to have to source that one. I've been looking through the South Shroud MSQ and sidequest dialogue and can find nothing of the sort. The only thing I see is a Hearer saying that the Elementals have not given them permission to heal the Resistance soldiers.

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I don't have access to the game right now, as far as the Quarrymill sidequests go. As far as Gridania's flaw. Idk, just start in Gridania and don't skip the dialogue/CSes. They give you death threats and warnings for not being from Gridania from the very start, and it doesn't stop until you're a local hero for defending the Guardian Tree.

Also, so I'm not just stinking up this thread with my stuff, I got curious and started googling. Found this pretty interesting read up on the Elementals and Nophica as well as other of The Twelve.

https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showth...5665#pid275665

Nophica's like half way down, if the link doesn't automatically take you to it. Thought it was very cool, and makes me wish 2.0 kept the strict plot beat about The Elementals around. Like with the WHM AF being an Elemental manifesting itself as clothing.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Also, so I'm not just stinking up this thread with my stuff, I got curious and started googling. Found this pretty interesting read up on the Elementals and Nophica as well as other of The Twelve.

https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showth...5665#pid275665

Nophica's like half way down, if the link doesn't automatically take you to it. Thought it was very cool, and makes me wish 2.0 kept the strict plot beat about The Elementals around. Like with the WHM AF being an Elemental manifesting itself as clothing.

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I feel like there is some miscommunication going on.
At the risk of sounding like an idiot because you were indeed addressing this; In the case of the Quarrymill refugees, we wanted to know where it is specifically said that only the female refugees were granted permission by the elementals to reside in the Shroud?
The link only says the elementals decide who is allowed to stay.
And Gridania having a fear of outsiders. Which are things that are known by a few of us here already.

The Hearer in the Leatherworker 60-70 quest-line, Marmaduke, does make claims about the Will of the Elementals that turn out to be false and just him trying to support his own opinions, so there's definitely some leeway and bias in what Gridania can claim is the Will of the Elementals versus what the Elementals actually care about.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

I feel like there is some miscommunication going on.

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The link is for the OP, that post is basically to try to make up for me semi-derailing the thread, albeit to a related point.

As far as Quarrymill goes, shucky darn, NPC dialogue changes after Stormblood completion, so I went to one my alts that's around 2.4. I redid all of the Quarrymill quests, looked through all the leves there, and shucky darn could not find the line I remembered.

I thought Wlfric on the upper partition said it after you do his quest, but no, he just says something along the lines of, "If the refugees are of no use to the wood, then they must be ousted. Call me a bloodless demon if you will, but they must go." After Stormblood completion he says, "With Ala Mhigo now free, you'd think the refugee situation would improve but..." In my memory it was something along the lines of, "The refugees are of no use to us, save the women, they'll do quite nicely, hehehe." But I guess I dreamed that up. Sorry to detract from the thread.

Of course, Albreda is a spurned, single woman. She's the only readily apparent Ala Mhigan allowed, though Deidra has the same pants and shoes as her and the other refugees. The way the Leves portray Quarrymill, there's enough accepted Ala Mhigans that they form a band of "free swords" that help the Wood Wailers deal with bandits and poachers.

Insofar as the Elementals' approval goes, foreigners are required to spend one night in Quarrymill, as that's the amount of time the Elementals need to judge them worthy or not, apparently. Prior to POTD I don't believe that Padjali was there, but even without him the place has two Hearers. But I mean, reading through stuff about Hearers there's no way to tell how good they are, and if they tell the truth or not all of the time. Basically, non-Hearers have to take it on faith that what the Hearers are saying is true. The angle my wrong-memory has is that the Gridanians basically can lie to outsiders on a whim, because the Elementals largely do not care about the affairs of men, so long as they do not harm the balance of the Black Shroud.


Alas, it seems all I was able to come up with, directly from Quarrymill, is mere implication. I was really hoping to comeback with what I remembered.

The whole "We obey the elementals' will, even when that will is to leave this poisoned man to die for no apparently good reason." is definitely the thing that turns me/my WoL off the most about the Shroud. Like... the elementals are jerks. Or the people interpreting their will are.

The Elementals might have their reasons about not allowing extra people in for settlement, like "the ecosystem can only handle so much", etc. And that's fair enough. The Elementals were there first, after all.

But in the Quarrymill case, the Ala Mhigans were already rejected. They'd accepted the rejection. They were trying to leave. They just needed some aid before doing so. And rando adventurer WoL just kills some antelope for horns, trades em to Buscarron for powdered horns, gives the Ala Mhigans the aide they need... and nothing happens to us. Thus, the Elementals seemingly didn't have a problem with Meffrid's man being cured. But the Gridanians who refused aide sure act like they think that was the case.

So either the Elementals are bluffing about the consequences of defying them, the Gridanians aren't interpreting the will of the Elementals correctly, or the Hearers are lying about what in particular the elementals have said/they are embellishing the answers cus the elementals aren't giving a complete answer to everything they ask. Or, they assumed Meffrid's group being rejected meant that they were untouchable, even if the Elementals are in reality indifferent. Safer to let the strangers die than incur the green wrath. And unless you become a Hearer (which I assume is WHM?) then there's no way to tell the right of it.

Gridania may be one of the most pleasant areas geographically, but its got some real drawbacks. Gimme my freedom loving ruffians, volcanic isles, and Mediterranean climate with a mild chance of earthquakes and tidal waves, anytime. lol

...and then the guy goes on to be one of the Griffin's helpers and convince a whole lot of people to join a cause that would lead them to their deaths.

I don't know if the elementals can sense the future, but things have unexpected consequences.

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[EDIT]

I'm out of posts for the day so I'm going to do that annoying sequence-breaking thing of replying to a post made after this one.

I'm saying the elementals aren't human and may not have human sympathy, just a sense of the larger scale, but maybe if they can sense the future then they judge him on that sense that "this man will do terrible things and we don't want him here".

It's hard to know how it works exactly, but it's one possible explanation why they'd do it. I'm not saying I agree with that decision.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

...and then the guy goes on to be one of the Griffin's helpers and convince a whole lot of people to join a cause that would lead them to their deaths.

I don't know if the elementals can sense the future, but things have unexpected consequences.

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Not really okay with punishing people for what they might do in the future, personally, even if the Elementals could see it. (Again, not the the Elementals seemed to have actually cared if he got healed cus they don't react when we do it anyway. lol)

Plus, maybe he wouldn't have gone extremist and had more faith in the alliance's efforts visa vi Ala Mhigo if he'd been shown some reason to think its official members actually gave a darn about him/his people/cause and were willing to provide the bear minimum of aide. I mean, fact is, they were trying to leave. They couldn't b/c he was poisoned. The group was being ostracized for not leaving, but couldn't leave b/c they were being ostracized. Someone was being dumb, and those someones were the locals.


EDIT:
I just realized I may have misinterpreted the tone of your post, Iscah. Were you saying that their chickens came home to roost with this guy precisely b/c of how he was treated in Quarrymill? Or were you saying he should have been treated like that b/c of how he would act in the future?

The thing about minority reports is that we don't know which Elementals are making judgments. Gridanians make it sound like all Elementals are in consensus when they aren't. They differ in power, fury, location, element, sound, influence, and pretty much everything other than being intangible aetherial beings. The Hearers can't even hear all of them. Most foreigners aren't going to know that though, which makes it really easy for Gridania as a community to take advantage of them, and cite what basically amounts to their God. The 1.0 Elementals at least had the very real furious Elementals that disintegrate people with Woodsin.

But I digress, basically, even if they could see the future, we don't know which ones can. How far they can see. What parts of the future they see and so on and so forth. If they could see the future of each individual with 100% certainty, then they would know that the WoL was going to help the man anyway. At that point, why forego having the Gridanians aid him? Why not attempt to change the future by having him fall in love with the Twelveswood, such that he leaves the Resistance to stay there.

I think it's simpler. We know from Kan-E-Senna's dialogue that the Elementals don't actually speak. They communicate their feelings about other beings as, "whispers" to those receptive to them. The Hearers in Quarrymill spend the night communing, and they get the feel from The Elementals of, "Bad" or "Anger" or "Grief" etc. Interpret it as condemnation.

Also, there's a daily post limit? :O What's the daily posting limit?

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Basically, non-Hearers have to take it on faith that what the Hearers are saying is true. The angle my wrong-memory has is that the Gridanians basically can lie to outsiders on a whim, because the Elementals largely do not care about the affairs of men, so long as they do not harm the balance of the Black Shroud.

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In support of this theory, there IS an in-game example of a Hearer using their influence to throw their weight around, with the implication that the decrees he was laying down were his own self-righteousness at work rather than any actual whisper from an Elemental. The Stormblood Leatherworker quests feature just such a Hearer, who finds the taxidermy we practise during that questline to be personally distasteful, and uses his influence to put an end to it. So it's at least POSSIBLE that the plight of the Ala Mhigans was a plot by a bigoted Hearer who wants them run out of town - but there are few or no clues in the quest dialogue to support this interpretation.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

But in the Quarrymill case, the Ala Mhigans were already rejected. They'd accepted the rejection. They were trying to leave. They just needed some aid before doing so. And rando adventurer WoL just kills some antelope for horns, trades em to Buscarron for powdered horns, gives the Ala Mhigans the aide they need... and nothing happens to us. Thus, the Elementals seemingly didn't have a problem with Meffrid's man being cured. But the Gridanians who refused aide sure act like they think that was the case.

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The Elementals have a weird relationship with the WoL that doesn't always make sense. The WoL can apparently do whatever they damn well please in the Shroud, and we never get any flack for it.

There's some evidence that the Elementals are less powerful than they used to be, following the Seventh Calamity. It's possible that the Elementals are a whole lot less able to bare their teeth than they used to be, but the Gridanians are hesitant to test their limits anyway. They know what the Elementals can be like when they're at their worst, after all - is it worth the risk to start rebelling, just in case they MIGHT be more passive than they were before?

I'm also of the opinion that the "worst" the Gridanians are so fearful of (basically, the Great Flood of the Sixth Calamity, which the elemental Oha Sok unleashed upon the world to end the War of the Magi), can never actually be repeated - at least, not to the same degree. We've since learned that the disasters of each Calamity have been massively magnified by the flood of Aether from a Rejoining world. While it's likely Oha Sok could have caused a lot of damage on its own, the Rejoining is what caused it to become a flood large enough to put an end to all civilization in Eorzea.

It may well be that the Gridanians are on more equal footing with the Elementals, now - but it's entirely sensible that they'd approach this possibility with an enormous amount of caution!

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Gridania may be one of the most pleasant areas geographically, but its got some real drawbacks. Gimme my freedom loving ruffians, volcanic isles, and Mediterranean climate with a mild chance of earthquakes and tidal waves, anytime. lol

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You left "Systemic oppression of the natives" off the list! XD Each nation has its dark side, no doubt about it.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

You left "Systemic oppression of the natives" off the list! XD Each nation has its dark side, no doubt about it.

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Systematic oppression of some of the natives while also encouraging friendlies to enter the city and trade. But I have not forgotten the ways Limsa has screwed up and that part of the reason there are unfriendlies in the first place is their own fault.

So here's a thought: I wonder if the viera's forests have a high concentration of elementals too.

In FF12 the viera personified and revered the forest. They could hear the Wood's voice, did as it said, and asked it for guidance. It was portrayed in a similar way to 14's conjurers and padjal. So if we ever explore more of the viera in this game I wouldn't be surprised to learn Skatay Range and Golmore Jungle have elementals as active as the Black Shroud's, it's a perfect way to translate the Green Word into this game's setting.

Gridania is... pretty much a PG-13 take on "Shadow Over Insmouth" by HP Lovecraft. Only it's with tree spirits instead of Great Deep Ones and people don't get born half-fish people on purpose, they get born that way by accident.

The key thing to realize about Gridania is that everyone in the Shroud basically gets no say in how they live there. The Padjal and Hearers are there to hear the Will of the Elementals and make sure people know what it is. They aren't there to tell the Elementals what the people in the Shroud want. Complicating this is that Elementals aren't human and have a very hard time telling individuals apart. So they tend towards "punish the group for the sins of the individual" logic. Which makes leaving people who don't obey the Elmentals out and about in the Shroud really dangerous. The only reason why Gridania exists is because the Elementals gave the people of Gelmora permission to build it in the first place.

For better or for worse though, the Elementals have been loosing power since the Calamity. They used to be able to keep the ruins of Amdapoor (both the city and keep) warded so people couldn't find them. Now that is no longer the case. So the Elementals probably aren't following up on people doing stuff they don't like how they used to before the Calamity. Which... actually could have some interesting implications going forwards for some parties.

What makes Gridania stand out from Limsa Lominsa and Ul'dah is that... the problems it is facing are supernatural in nature. Limsa Lominsa and Ul'dah's problems are entirely human in origin and therefor human when it comes to finding solutions. Gridania's problems ultimatly stem from them being in the same place as the Elementals are and can't really be fixed unless the Elementals change their minds about things for whatever reason.

The most interesting thing about the elementals at this point of time is how little power they have. As someone mentioned, Elementals in 1.0 were capable of causing a Treant to rampage and causing a child to be turned to stone. Another interesting thing is the elementals were also a convenient excuse for a Gridanian splinter group designed to protect the woods in secret from major threats under the excuse of being taken by woodsin in 1.0. The only groups that seemed to have any sort of authority over the elementals were the Padjali and Moogles. Even then they were only able to quell their fury for a short time. A ceremony was still needed to prevent the adventurer, Yda (Actual one as the woodsin storyline took place in a echo flashback) and Papalymo from succumbing from woodsin. Which turned out to be real due to what happened to the child.

Now they don't appear to be capable of retaliating against anyone with some exceptions. And those exceptions are rather weak attempts. The Ixali are not only able to set up logging camps in the Shroud but they were also able to desecrate trees and locations sacred to the elementals with little punishment. While they were initially punished as an Ixali was found dead early in the Gridanian storyline in 2.0 there have been examples were they gotten away with it as well such as the quest Harriers of the Hedgetree where the Ixali ambush the player after desecrating the tree. This is providing I'm not misremembering how that quest played out as it is a very early quest.

Another few notable groups that the elementals don't seem to be able to have any power over currently are the Coeurl Claw clan and the Redbellies. Both groups are poachers and naturally are threats to the ecosystem. Hey no effort by the elementals seem to have been made to put a end to either group. It's usually woodwailers, Ala Mhigan Freeswords and adventurers that end up having to deal with them.

It seems the most elementals are capable these days are command the seedkin to go on a rampage or occasionally take matters in their own hands, albiet weakly (though still dangerous to the average person) as seen in conjuerer 30.


Another thing of note is that Eurekan elementals are considerably more friendly in comparison to their Black Shroud counterparts. I'm afraid I haven't gotten far in the Eureka storyline so if there is a explanation I don't have much to go off of.

A bit tangential but I'd like some clarification on a few, if possible: are the elementals to be found throughout the world? If not, how does conjury work outside the shroud?

As I understood it, conjury is a bit of a process in the sense that you have to go through the elementals to obtain the desire effect (flinging rocks at a target or manipulating gusts of wind to a destructive effect). I always took that to be one of the key differences between base conjury and white magic: the conjurer asks whereas the white mage takes. Of course, I realize that this last point might be one hell of an oversimplication, if not outright incorrect... in which case please explain the difference to me ^^;

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

It's not an assumption. A sidequest in Quarrymill has a Wood Wailer or God's Quiver pretty much admit to it. Nothing's unfounded about it at all. Gridania's only real flaw is its citzenry's fear/hate of outsiders.

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and the duskwights. they treat duskwights pretty damn bad.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

and the duskwights. they treat duskwights pretty damn bad.

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And Moonkeepers. They aren't treated that well either as seen in the archer questline. Seems like anyone who isn't a Wood Elezen or Hyur are generally distrusted or even hated in Gridania.

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Originally Posted by Hazama999

A bit tangential but I'd like some clarification on a few, if possible: are the elementals to be found throughout the world? If not, how does conjury work outside the shroud?

As I understood it, conjury is a bit of a process in the sense that you have to go through the elementals to obtain the desire effect (flinging rocks at a target or manipulating gusts of wind to a destructive effect). I always took that to be one of the key differences between base conjury and white magic: the conjurer asks whereas the white mage takes. Of course, I realize that this last point might be one hell of an oversimplication, if not outright incorrect... in which case please explain the difference to me ^^;

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Yes, but actually no. There are elementals that can be found everywhere, but they are not the same as The Elementals in the Black Shroud. There are elementals for every element, and this is true for The Elementals in the Shroud, but the ones in the Shroud seem to be more akin to restless nature spirits.

The ones in Eureka come out only to buff people who approach them with their blessing, and eventually blow themselves out existence. I don't remember there being very much lore on them at all.

As for Conjurers and conjury, well... not every Conjurer can hear The Elementals. Some can only hear certain elements. Others can hear them all. They had a robe color scheme system for it in 1.0, and I think it most holds true till today. All Conjury really is, is aetherial command over the elements of earth, air, and water. They use these, because they can be used to heal or to hurt without disrupting the ecosystem very much. White Magic is different in that White Mages directly manipulate the umbral aspect of a body's aether as a whole, i.e. cast Holy/Light aspected spells. It has been a really long time since I did the quest lines, but normally white magic is reserved for The Elementals chosen, the Padjal, because it's powerful and easy to abuse, as it was one of the magic schools that was abused in the War of The Magi.

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Originally Posted by Hazama999

A bit tangential but I'd like some clarification on a few, if possible: are the elementals to be found throughout the world? If not, how does conjury work outside the shroud?

As I understood it, conjury is a bit of a process in the sense that you have to go through the elementals to obtain the desire effect (flinging rocks at a target or manipulating gusts of wind to a destructive effect). I always took that to be one of the key differences between base conjury and white magic: the conjurer asks whereas the white mage takes. Of course, I realize that this last point might be one hell of an oversimplication, if not outright incorrect... in which case please explain the difference to me ^^;

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They are indeed found all over the world:

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/L...ouls_Gone_Wild
"If you are planning to stay a while, you might want to learn a bit about the elementals. They reside within all creation, and are the organizing principle at work throughout the world. The ancient elementals of the Twelveswood are much more powerful and wise than those from other parts of the world."

Which brings me back to my original question: do we know why they're so much more numerous and active in the Shroud?

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

They had a robe color scheme system for it in 1.0, and I think it most holds true till today.

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What is this color scheme for future reference?

As far as I was aware there was never any specific meaning given to the colour of the robes worn by the hearers and CNJ npcs in the CNJ's Guild in 1.0. SE just gave the npcs outfits in default random colours, but most seemed to be dull beige similar to the starting robes a mage player started 1.0 wearing (at least, I do not recall any info stated to that effect in 1.0 anyway).

Elementals being found all over the world and not just the Twelveswood is why there are records of some Padjal leaving the Twelveswood. That's why the Padjal who made your soul stone died. It's also why the HQ WHM job quest had you and the other Padjal going to Dravania. There was a person there messing with Dravanian elementals to mess with the headwaters of streams that went into the Shroud eventually.

One of the consistent themes of the WHM quests has been that things outside the Shroud do affect what goes on in the Shroud. So the Padjal need to remember to look beyond their borders at times if they really want to fix problems. And leaving the Shroud was something the Elementals really didn't want the Padjal to do since it put the Padjal beyond the reach of the Shroud Elementals... who are the ones who determine who is born a Padjal and who isn't.

The Elementals in the Shroud really don't look beyond the Shroud... because "outside the shroud" isn't where they live, so anything outside the Shroud isn't their problem to fix. They are very location bound.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

It's also why the HQ WHM job quest had you and the other Padjal going to Dravania. There was a person there messing with Dravanian elementals to mess with the headwaters of streams that went into the Shroud eventually.

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I don't recall that being about elementals - just that the Shroud elementals could sense the taint that was spreading as a result of her actions.

I find it weird that no elementals appear in Rak'tika Greatwood. The only reference we see of them at all was that cave mural in Qitana Ravel....depicting Hydaelyn & Zodiark as elementals.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

I find it weird that no elementals appear in Rak'tika Greatwood. The only reference we see of them at all was that cave mural in Qitana Ravel....depicting Hydaelyn & Zodiark as elementals.

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It definitely implies that whatever reason they're so active in the Shroud came post-Sundering.

Is it just to hide Amdapor? Do we know if they were so active before the War of the Magi?

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

I find it weird that no elementals appear in Rak'tika Greatwood. The only reference we see of them at all was that cave mural in Qitana Ravel....depicting Hydaelyn & Zodiark as elementals.

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Comparing the situation on the source to the shards is hard to do, simply due to the sheer number of calamities that have utterly decimated the source as a result of the rejoinings means that most circumstances on the Source are a result of its unique situation. For all we know the Elementals may only manifest on the source the way they do due to those special circumstances.