[DEV1313] [DEV1314] Howling Fist combo bonus change suggestion

Well I guess every monk out there know that Howling Fist in the combo adds extra damage when we hit on sides.

That is my issue here and is being wasted because every monk does the Howling Fist all as back combo buffing with Queling Strike + Blood for Blood + Blindside + Keen Flurry after the Pounce and Demolish.

The damage output of using those buffs is around 1300-1500 on Miser.
Using the attack on side although no one buff Blindside or anything else does around 900 damage. Maybe with Blood for Blood buff could get to 1000-1100 but still stay way behind with the Blindside.

So if we did the combo all on back and the combo bonus was on back the Howling Fist could do even more damage.

Tell me your opinion about this.

Thank you.

I actually think this would be convenient. Howling Fist is a great skill already and I think they didn't want it used on the back for a reason. Because it would totally own!

Monk is the one class I'm saving to level post 2.0, so I'm asking for my own education here:

What happens to the total damage of the combo if you spread the abilities out?

Instead of stacking them all and hitting from the "wrong" side of a mob why not use Blindsideon one of the WSs that has to hit from the back anyway and Blood for Blood on Howling Fist while striking from the side?

I know that doesn't make Howling Fist hit for a maximum, but my understanding of combos has been overall damage not just a single skill.

Again, just asking for my own education.

Pretty sure the sides bonus is an accuracy bonus. The combo bonus is increased damage, which you just have to combo it with Pounce>Demolish.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Monk is the one class I'm saving to level post 2.0, so I'm asking for my own education here:

What happens to the total damage of the combo if you spread the abilities out?

Instead of stacking them all and hitting from the "wrong" side of a mob why not use Blindsideon one of the WSs that has to hit from the back anyway and Blood for Blood on Howling Fist while striking from the side?

I know that doesn't make Howling Fist hit for a maximum, but my understanding of combos has been overall damage not just a single skill.

Again, just asking for my own education.

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Well out of the three tier 3 skills(Howling Fist, Simian Thrash, Dragon Kick) only howling fist is a single hitter. Personally I would prefer to BfB and Blindside Dragon Kick but multi-hit weapon skills are only enhanced by buffs on the first hit. Since this happens Howling Fist is what most people use the buffs on.

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Pretty sure the sides bonus is an accuracy bonus. The combo bonus is increased damage, which you just have to combo it with Pounce>Demolish.

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Yes that is the case.

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Deliver's a melee attack, Accuracy increased when executed from the right or left of the target.
Combo Action: Demolish
Combo Bonus: Increased damage.

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Is the exact wording on the ability.

So as some have pointed out above the only benefit you gain from using Howling Fist from the side is increased accuracy, you will always gain a bonus to damage as long as you combo into Howling fist.

Meaning the 1300-1500 Howling fist crits you get on mistress from using blood for blood + blindside are indeed gaining the increased damage combo bonus effect from comboing.

So the side bonus is only for the accuracy and not the damage as well? So we can continue like we have been doing and stay on back getting the increased damage on combo?

I thought the increase of damage was also staying in side but seeing we do a lot of damage doing with Blindside and Blood for Blood people didn't care much.

Also the damage of Dragon Kick with Blindside wouldn't be so great... that's why we usually buff all for Howling Fist.

in combo you get increased damage +acc out of combo you can get +acc only

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Originally Posted by Shiki_Lockhart

So the side bonus is only for the accuracy and not the damage as well? So we can continue like we have been doing and stay on back getting the increased damage on combo?

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Correct.

Atleast that is how it seems to work, its kind of hard to test with the combo's we have available since damage variation can be quite big at times and i personally don't know if the combo bonus is +5 damage or +5% damage for example and no clue if anyone has done extensive testing on it.

But since Howling fist is an end combo and you cannot combo that into anything else it would make the most sense that it would not require you to meet the positional requirement for the final combo to gain the combo bonus.

Edit: Even if somehow SE designed it to require the side combo to get the bonus which would be silly, changing it to increase monks damage output doesn't really make much sense, monk from my personal testing seems to have the highest single target sustained dps out of all the classes currently, BLM has more burst sure but over time their damage drops off heavily due to MP issues where as monk atleast with Ballad can continue a close to perfect rotation much much longer and maintain a higher sustained dps for a longer period of time.

Dragoon isn't that far behind but due to accuracy issues with dragoon and having to stack accuracy to overcome this problem dragoon just wont be able to hit hard enough to maintain the same dps.

And i think this is perfect because monk sacrifices aoe capability to be able to output the highest single target damage out of all the classes.

It also is the most susceptible to AOE's, which is finally a fair tradeoff considering how crazy its damage output is.

Was my misunderstood on reading the combo and position effect. But we learn always new things everyday. My main was always PGL/MNK but since I saw we would more dmg on back I couldn't care less if I was losing the combo bonus.

And thank you Penguin, for the explanation. I can now do what I have been doing as usual without any worries :p

The combo bonus is damage not accuracy. Boosted Accuracy is something that is inherent to the WS if done from the side similar to Sucker Punch's MP drain. If you do not perform the WS from the side you do not get boosted damage in combo nor the inherent boosted acc if it was done in/out of combo. The simple way to tell is the combo sound effect/visual that surrounds your character when you successfully perform a combo action. So if you don't have buffs available, do Howling Fist from the side for maximum damage.

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

The combo bonus is damage not accuracy. Boosted Accuracy is something that is inherent to the WS if done from the side similar to Sucker Punch's MP drain. If you do not perform the WS from the side you do not get boosted damage in combo nor the inherent boosted acc if it was done in/out of combo. The simple way to tell is the combo sound effect/visual that surrounds your character when you successfully perform a combo action. So if you don't have buffs available, do Howling Fist from the side for maximum damage.

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You have tested this right?

Because the small amount of testing i have done would indicate either the damage bonus is very small or the damage bonus effects both, but again i have done a very small amount of testing and with the variation in damage being so large at times it would require a decent amount of testing to be 100% sure.

The problem with the example you gave is for example with Sucker punch it is actually required that you hit it from the side to gain any mp at all since hitting it from the front or back will not provide any mp, and since the combo bonus is based on mp absorption its impossible to test if it were to work from any other direction, also not to mention Sucker Punch is a mid combo weaponskill and so it makes much more sense that it would require you to fulfill the combo requirement to hit the combo bonus which as i said before may not be the case for final combo weaponskills.

I would love to see someone with a decent amount of patience test this though because it could be useful information for the future.

The placement of the WS in the combo is a non issue. The game checks for 2 conditions to give the player any kind of bonus for a WS: Positional Requirements and Miss/Resist. Howling Fist is unique in the sense that it's the only current combo finisher that has a positional requirement to attain the bonus. If you don't get the purple effect around your character when you perform a WS/Spell, you gain no bonus.

As far as Sucker Punch is concerned, it was at one time a combo finisher (still is for PGL). I'm not exactly sure I'm following you 100% on the rebuttal but a comparison to Howling Fist still has merit and can be tested. Howling Fist/Sucker Punch performed from the side, in or out of combo, will always give you boosted accuracy/MP absorption. Done in combo, you get boosted damage/increased MP Absorption. You get two quantifiable values with each scenario, Damage/MP absorption.

As far as how much the actual damage is boosted, I can't give you any concrete info at this time as I haven't thoroughly tested it. That is something that I'm currently doing, testing unbuffed Howling Fist out of combo from behind and the side, and Howling Fist from behind and the side in combo. It may end up being similar to your tests where the boost is negligible but I'll try and get on it to put it out there.

EDIT: After a bit of testing, it seems the game still applies the damage bonus regardless if you complete the directional requirement for Howling Fist. Runs contrary to how the combo bonus works for other spells/WS finishers. So you were right Peng. Damage increase is 100~ dmg btw.

It wouldnt make sence to not give the damage bonus since it's comboed anyway.
The last positional requirement is for the accuracy bonus and has nothing to do with combos, otherwise the description of the skill is wrong.

The only reason that this purple effect at the end exists is to act as a visual indicator to inform the players that a next comboable action is ready (last hitters also have the effect because they will probably have other skills that combo from them in the fututre).

Meh, I was incorrect in regards to when the bonus actually affects the WS which threw the concept of how I thought Combos worked, out. Now I understand what Peng meant with the Sucker Punch explanation. Live and learn~

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

Meh, I was incorrect in regards to when the bonus actually affects the WS which threw the concept of how I thought Combos worked, out. Now I understand what Peng meant with the Sucker Punch explanation. Live and learn~

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/Comfort___

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

Meh, I was incorrect in regards to when the bonus actually affects the WS which threw the concept of how I thought Combos worked, out. Now I understand what Peng meant with the Sucker Punch explanation. Live and learn~

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cheers! :)