Extreme Undercutting

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I do it because eventually I can buy out my competition and then resell their item for a profit. It's especially nice when you do it to a marketboard bot.

The usual reply is it’s not real money. It clogs up my inventory. I want a quick sale. I don’t care about what you want.

Pick one.
None represent my view. Just saving time for everyone lol

Yeah... the market gets murdered so fast now, its pretty annoying, from a solid 1-2m to 100-200k for new crafted gear, downed in a day. Unfortunately there isnt really a decent solution either...

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

from a solid 1-2m to 100-200k for new crafted gear, downed in a day.

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To be fair, that happens because new stuff starts at a higher price because people list them for a lot, but as more people craft them or become able to craft them, the price goes down because of supply and demand. Super rare items stay at high prices, whereas things that can just be crafted will gradually lower in price until it reaches a certain point. That's just how it is. Common things get sold for less. The end.

It's just kind of fun I guess. There isn't much to do in game atm anyway. I burned through the new patch content already.

Even the rarer stuff from like maps and such plummets fairly fast now, only things that stay costly are some extremely rare stuff that youre lucky to even see on the market, lol.

Gil has no value and item production is off the roof, all prices are inflated. The undercut prices might simply be the correct prices.

yeah its so bloody difficult to make money nowadays without doing the patch day market board slaughter compared to how it used to be. Rampant undercutting, marketboard bots SE refuses to tackle, worthwhile stuff to sell to vendors being destroyed etc
not to mention there's so few markets that stay at a decent price now. The only good ones are certain dyes which range between 230k and 350k depending, at least on adamantoise where everyone is stingy or ludicrously expensive (curative logos 3k on every other server a few weeks ago, 11k on adamantoise O_O)

its took me 5 months to make enough money to afford a mansion (50m gil) this year both at the start of patches and in between them
when i first bought an fc house a few years back before all these bots and exp showers for levelling crafting, i did that between patches in about a month for 60m gil

its absolutely ridiculous and despite people continuously asking SE to do something about the issue eg limiting price adjustments per day, item has to remain on for duration, delays before item is actually on the the market etc they still haven't done anything

It is kind of depressing how quickly items tank in price to the "barely profitable" range, though I think it's mostly the rampant bot farmers that are to blame for that, not so much impatient players.

It's a combination of things.

-Botting is becoming more and more rampant. Individual players are learning that bots rarely get banned.
-There is much less raw gil in the economy. The nerfs to vendor prices on items and gil income from collectibles hit hard.

Most importantly:
-Crafting is faceroll easy now.
-Crafters are easy to level, almost everyone has one.

Therefore items are worthless. Tens and tens of thousands of people out there can gather or throw them together in 5 minutes. Profitable crafting or accessible crafting. Pick one.
I notice people still like to delude themselves on it, "it's always like this near the end of a patch, there will be profit windows". There aren't and won't be. The days of big gil making are long since gone.

I do it because gil is meaningless. If I need something I can craft it, or gather it or farm dungeons etc for it, nothing for me to save gil up for. I also want to get as many items, into the hands of as many people as I can.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It's a combination of things.

-Botting is becoming more and more rampant. Individual players are learning that bots rarely get banned.
-There is much less raw gil in the economy. The nerfs to vendor prices on items and gil income from collectibles hit hard.

Most importantly:
-Crafting is faceroll easy now.
-Crafters are easy to level, almost everyone has one.

Therefore items are worthless. Tens and tens of thousands of people out there can gather or throw them together in 5 minutes. Profitable crafting or accessible crafting. Pick one.
I notice people still like to delude themselves on it, "it's always like this near the end of a patch, there will be profit windows". There aren't and won't be. The days of big gil making are long since gone.

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Which is the depressing part. I can appreciate people wanting prices to come down from the days of Heavensward where gear frequently stayed in the millions for months but this is the opposite problem. Within a couple weeks the gear just isn't worth making since you get so little out of it. That, in turn, is a big reason why crafters keep complaining how little content there is for them. Playing the market board was content. Frankly, I think the high end gear should be Expert locked. Maybe make the RNG slightly more forgiving but not by much.

Bots are honestly the biggest issue. SE is downright incompetent when it comes to handling them. That or they simply don't care.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

its absolutely ridiculous and despite people continuously asking SE to do something about the issue eg limiting price adjustments per day, item has to remain on for duration, delays before item is actually on the the market etc they still haven't done anything

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I think limiting the amount of undercuts allowed per day would make things worse. That only incentivizes players using bots to knock prices down even faster. You'd have to accompany it with a fix on how much you can undercut. If they did the latter—locking it at say, 0.1%—then you could make price change restrictions. Alas, people aren't going to support that since it only benefits sellers and not buyers.

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Originally Posted by Genz

Gil has no value and item production is off the roof, all prices are inflated. The undercut prices might simply be the correct prices.

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This is the right answer. There is zero risk for anyone who severely undercuts. Higher supply leads to lower prices. That's basic economics.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

It is kind of depressing how quickly items tank in price to the "barely profitable" range, though I think it's mostly the rampant bot farmers that are to blame for that, not so much impatient players.

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I think the most people who are complaining about selling prices are the ones who are making items from materials they bought off of the MB, because other than time gathering your own base mats is basically free.

I don't make millions per craft but I make a good daily grind side hustle selling mats.

The more the competition, the better for the buyers

Because demands are high and as soon satisfied no one needs it anymore, the problem is no item is relevant for long, crafting gear or materials, it is simply way to much, i keep saying it, no one needs each 2 levels a white gear, on top of every 2 levels a dungeon gear, while endgear you get with stones mostly and crafting is stronger in theory it is mostly used to skip up.

Main problem i see is how useless all becomes so fast, departing items is still not worth much since the materials you get out of are usless itself, i look at Guild Wars 2 here, rarely is anything to low in price, sure there are exceptions or useless items, but not to such degree, i still not know how they manage it but, every can be taken apart for materials you keep reuising or can sell more then at the vendors, or trown in the mystic forge, etc.

Items and gear simply has so many use and is worth something in any way, think this is the biggest difference here, on top of a ble ot sell under vendor price is one of the biggest issue in FFXIV.

I played alot of games but FFXIV has one of the worst market i have seen so far, undercutting in like 1 week, more other games do that to but not that fast, at least those i played.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Folks should just sell at the same price or do the -1 gil dealio. -1 gil might be annoying to some, but I'd prefer a million individual gil drops over time instead of huge undercuts back to back.

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I do it because of -1 gil people. You flip me off, I'm stabbing you in the kidney.

I freq tank items bc I hate having to camp my retainer to compete with ppl more inclined to -1 for days (and the bots). I don't care about squeezing the most gil possible out of an item, I just want it to sell so I can have the retainer slot back for something else. I'd rather just price the -1 ppl out of profitability and go back to doing something more fun than scrolling my retainers all day. Skip the 20 back-and-forths in between and just jump to the bottom.

The cheaper it gets, the faster ppl start mass-buying - which is consistent, no-undercut-req'd $.

It feels like the big gil (more so than usual) has shifted due to SE's accessibility changes, and is not in the "endgame" equipment items at least.
I mean, sure, I agree 100% that it's not as lucrative as previous expansions, where you'd just print $ hand in fist, but it's not too terrible.
I've only made like 60m so far since the patch (mostly not in gear since it's selling slow af), and I usually clear 120-150 day1. But it's also likely in part due to not being a raid patch, with a lot of ppl hedging their bets vs Ishgard P3 melds and Relics, just taking it slowly, whereas raid patches are more driven by the "must have it now" attitude.

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I was always of the mind making items should be pretty easy, HQing Top tier stuff for an expansion should be very doable at end-of-expansion, with end of expansion Crafting BiS, but not so easy it can be macro’d.

There was a sweet spot somewhere in Heavansward where I watched a friend make a HQ endgameish weapon and it took him some crazy number of steps to get it done, required some consumables etc. That felt like master craftsmanship.

Anyway, on top of all that, I think there should be an additional, 2nd level of HQ bar to get HQ+1 (so 3 levels of quality). The 3rd should require top shelf equipment, overmelding, the whole 9 yards. Would also say there should only ever be this 3rd level with crafted gear. 3rd set doesn’t even need better stats.. just add a gold border, maybe +1 materia slot and call it a night.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Kind of just a rant thread, but why do people undercut so freaking heavily to the point that nobody is making money anymore? It makes absolutely zero sense. You'll start off with say a 10,000 gil item, it'll drop to 9500, 8000, 5000, 1000, down to single amounts of gil. Im out here tryin to make gil! Stop killin my gil grind!

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But killing other peoples profit margins is content.

It wouldn't be so bad if the bots were not so prevalent. I don't mind actual people undercutting because I can just out wait them or buy and relist, but bots will be constantly crafting 24/7 and if you try buying and reselling or waiting they will always relist new items and keep undercutting and undercutting and undercutting until they're making margins so thin it's just not worth the effort anymore.

^^Pretty much this. Deflationary death spiral ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... my milllllliooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnsss.........

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Originally Posted by lolicon09

The more the competition, the better for the buyers

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Ugh they have found a way to disprove that. How is anybody supposed to afford anything? Everybody is crushing each other in the crafting economy and has no other way to get gil. People piling into the drops market have wrecked the prices already so same deal.

People who say gil in this game is useless should have to give it away. There's plenty of nice things on the market that I want, and I want to level a new character without having to craft every piece of equipment etc.

Everybody is now tight fisted in this game because there is nowhere near enough gil coming into the economy anymore, just gil leaving by sinks.

I undercut when something doesn't sell in a timely manner, or if it's an ongoing "battle" to the finish between a bunch of undercutters. If I have an item, or a bunch of items, that have sat for days then you better believe I'm going to throw them into the "bargain bin" so to speak just to get rid of them. Usually things sell that way. Either way, PvP happened in a PvP situation. So...gotta be persistent in an undercutting war.

I just sell it at half the lowest price or so usually. The amount of gil needed to make an item is usually relatively small, so there isn't any reason to charge a ton.

I have 3 crafter jobs at 80 - ALC, WVR, CUL.

I have a different idea of reasonable profit margin than MB MegaLords.

Low cost common example.

Hempen Camise.

NQ yellow camise sells for about 100 gil at the vendor in Ul’dah.

People routinely sell them HQ on the MB for 5000 gil.

They cost a pittance to make.

I sell 10-20 of them a week at a price that gets me 600 gil after market tax.

If another player is buying them and marking them up, great, we’re both happy.

But I am not going to charge 10 times (or more) than my cost of production, regardless of what everyone else is listing.

<shrug>

You just need to be patient and play the long game. Let people undercut you, buy their stuff and relist it if they undercut you by a lot. I used to adjust my prices every day and make very little. Now I adjust them once a week at the most and I'm making loads more than I did before and it's less effort. Obviously this doesn't help if you need the gil faster and if you're probably going to end up wanting to hire a few extra retainers.

Sometimes you don't even need to undercut to get a sale. I often list things for a higher price because I know the demand is big so I'll still get a sale.

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Originally Posted by Rhus

The usual reply is it’s not real money. It clogs up my inventory. I want a quick sale. I don’t care about what you want.

Pick one.
None represent my view. Just saving time for everyone lol

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Nothing like having that 1 ore of any kind taking the 175th place in your retainer that you can do literally nothing with.

Not your fault the person who makes a listing after at a lower price doesn't realize it's only a single unit like the blind monkey or bot they are.

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Originally Posted by CatStarPrime

I sell 10-20 of them a week at a price that gets me 600 gil after market tax.

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Wow, 6000 to 12,000 gil every week, don't spend it all in one place.

It wasn't long ago that my basic target was 100,000 to 200,000 profit per retainer sale slot every couple of days.

People undercut because inventory space is more valuable than gil.

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Originally Posted by Waaltar

Wow, 6000 to 12,000 gil every week, don't spend it all in one place.

It wasn't long ago that my basic target was 100,000 to 200,000 profit per retainer sale slot every couple of days.

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<shrug>

I don't need the gil.

I craft HQ hempen camise because the world needs more pretty Miqo'te girls idling in hempen camises.

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Originally Posted by CatStarPrime

<shrug>

I don't need the gil.

I craft HQ hempen camise because the world needs more pretty Miqo'te girls idling in hempen camises.

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Nothing wrong with finding a niche and working it. As long as you are making positive returns and are satisfied with your income, that’s a win. I want to say I started with buying candles off of NPCs and MBing them. Every little bit adds up!

There should have been buy orders so that sever undercutting can't happen without an inflation of goods.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

There should have been buy orders so that sever undercutting can't happen without an inflation of goods.

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I say what we need is listing fees that you won't recover unless the item is sold. That way pricing will be more stable and strategic undercutting will still happen.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...pg?format=750w

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Originally Posted by Enla

I do it because eventually I can buy out my competition and then resell their item for a profit. It's especially nice when you do it to a marketboard bot.

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I wonder, how they can profit selling an item less the price of its components? Did they got them for..(cough cough..) free?

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

I wonder, how they can profit selling an item less the price of its components? Did they got them for..(cough cough..) free?

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The cost of most items is zero in terms of money and "Whatever" in terms of time to go out and farm the mats, which is also basically zero if you're using bots anyway as they can farm all day long without you. So the more automated they are and the more product they can produce, the less actual money they need per sale..much like actual manufacturing.

Some of the more...extreme bot farmers actually have dedicated farming groups that spam instances for phantasmagoria tomestones so they can completely eliminate material costs from the equation.

Trying to bait them into selling low then buying them out is also only effective if their owners are stupid because the ones on Cactuar keep a huge surplus stock so that they can immediately relist something the instant it sells in order to maintain their price chokehold.

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Originally Posted by Rhus

The usual reply is it’s not real money. It clogs up my inventory. I want a quick sale. I don’t care about what you want.

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I usually just match the lowest price, and if it hasn't sold in a few days, chop my price in half (or the new minimum).

Idea: New vendor system, You can vendor your stuff for the last 30-day average MB lowest price, or the default vendor price, whichever is higher. This way, people just looking for a quick unload won't be driving MB prices down.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

Idea: New vendor system, You can vendor your stuff for the last 30-day average MB lowest price, or the default vendor price, whichever is higher. This way, people just looking for a quick unload won't be driving MB prices down.

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Problem with this is it doesn't remove gil from the game and could be easily exploited. The player sale tax is critical.

Harlequin gear usually sells for 15-30k and today I found one person selling them for 1k....
What is wrong with you?