Difference in fight Design

The new trial deserves praise for a few things but the thing I really want to praise for is

Ex version does not have the story mode intermission, ty ty ty so much for not doing that, makes farming a lot more enjoyable as it is a lot snapper to get back to action, could you do this from now on please some cutscene intermissions every now and then is cool but when you may have to go to 99 runs or more they get tiring after a while.

Story modes having them sure as your telling a story for them EX not so much.

Without having run many Ex fights, how many do have the story intermission? I assume Dying Gasp Ex. Menagerie Ex I assume still uses it for platform transition...What else is there?

Thats sad the QTE is not in the extreme version. I like that part in the normal one. Look I'll take anything that makes our fights harder so people can stop saying XIV is a baby mode mmo. Tho I know extreme is a different beast anyway. I loved this fight and can't wait to get good enough to try the harder one. I'm scared to try if I'm being honest.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

Look I'll take anything that makes our fights harder so people can stop saying XIV is a baby mode mmo.

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I am fine with more difficulty in normal trials, but having one person fail the QTE and the whole group wipes because of it is a dumb mechanic.

That kind of stuff can go where the sun doesn't shine.

I hated Ruby EX for that reason. Why wasn't EX just a beef'd up Ruby weapon? That phase change is fine for story mode, but it feels so fillery and boring in EX.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

I am fine with more difficulty in normal trials, but having one person fail the QTE and the whole group wipes because of it is a dumb mechanic.

That kind of stuff can go where the sun doesn't shine.

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Maybe I'm dumb but I liked that part of the fight. It literally makes sure everyone is doing something to the max effect. I kindof want more things like that. Maybe not in QTE form but it does help people not be carried in content I think.

The EX version compensates for the lack of mashing by making the add phase have a huge dance party of like four different mechanics in sequence before you're allowed to focus on burning the adds down.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

I am fine with more difficulty in normal trials, but having one person fail the QTE and the whole group wipes because of it is a dumb mechanic.

That kind of stuff can go where the sun doesn't shine.

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Gods, imagine this in Shinryu. My first time doing it 5 people died on that and the other 3 died on the platform afterwards, aswell as myself who died because I never saw a QTE in the game before

Yeah, I'm glad the extreme doesn't have story-related down-phase. I hope they design them like this more. In savage raids it's a good design philosophy since it's a weekly clear, not so much in extremes. Though I do love some of the phase changes like in levi, sophia, zurvan. Small ones like that are nice, but Ruby's feels longer than it is/should be.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

Thats sad the QTE is not in the extreme version. I like that part in the normal one. Look I'll take anything that makes our fights harder so people can stop saying XIV is a baby mode mmo. Tho I know extreme is a different beast anyway. I loved this fight and can't wait to get good enough to try the harder one. I'm scared to try if I'm being honest.

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The QTE would be fine if it weren’t for it being a wipe if even one person fails. I can mash with the best of them, but there are those who can’t.

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Originally Posted by Conando

The QTE would be fine if it weren’t for it being a wipe if even one person fails. I can mash with the best of them, but there are those who can’t.

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I don't know... I'm in agreement with the person you qouted. I haven't gotten there yet but I like the idea that everyone must pass in order to clear. Sounds like something the game needed if I'm honest.

Cleared the ex trial today and I’m so happy that the transition isn’t in it. Having to memorize all those mechanics more than makes up for it, especially in second phase where they are random. I see people saying they wanted the transition in the ex fight but I disagree. It’s optional content that you farm for gear/mats. You wouldn’t wanna get wiped because someone d/c in transition and have to start all over again.

Haven't even thought about Ex, lol. The normal was challenging enough tight now. I do like the mechanic in story mode but I can see groups falling apart rather quickly in Ex if it were there.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

The new trial deserves praise for a few things but the thing I really want to praise for is

Ex version does not have the story mode intermission, ty ty ty so much for not doing that, makes farming a lot more enjoyable as it is a lot snapper to get back to action, could you do this from now on please some cutscene intermissions every now and then is cool but when you may have to go to 99 runs or more they get tiring after a while.

Story modes having them sure as your telling a story for them EX not so much.

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You might be inadvertently talking about two different things here. While it is nice that they don't make you do the ATE thing during the EX version of this fight, it's probably specifically because it takes a lot of time and forces you to do something (even if it's just mashing buttons).

They've said before that they add the transition and limit break/ultimate/whatever cutscenes mid-fight specifically for EX and Savage fights to give players a few seconds of a break before continuing. I don't have the source for this unfortunately, but I'm sure it was mentioned and thus not likely to go anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Controller

I don't know... I'm in agreement with the person you qouted. I haven't gotten there yet but I like the idea that everyone must pass in order to clear. Sounds like something the game needed if I'm honest.

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If it were something actually based on the general skillset you should have for the game, I’d agree. Button mashing isn’t part of that skillset, though.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

Maybe I\\'m dumb but I liked that part of the fight. It literally makes sure everyone is doing something to the max effect. I kindof want more things like that. Maybe not in QTE form but it does help people not be carried in content I think.

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I'm okay with a mechanic that requires everyone to be on point, but not that QTE garbage. It won't work with 1 button and it destroys my controller, disrespecting the players property. The QTE isn't difficulty in accordance of the game, so it's bad. It also disrespects physical disability for no reason.

They can do better than that QTE, I know this after 4 years of savage and all the ultimates. Plus, I hate that QTE in general, not only for the harm on my controller and my arthritis/tendonitis but that they tend to force tanks to be "AFK" and not let them play the game. IT ISN'T FUN NOR INTERESTING. Please quit that noise.

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Originally Posted by millktea

I'm okay with a mechanic that requires everyone to be on point, but not that QTE garbage. It won't work with 1 button and it destroys my controller, disrespecting the players property. The QTE isn't difficulty in accordance of the game, so it's bad. It also disrespects physical disability for no reason.

They can do better than that QTE, I know this after 4 years of savage and all the ultimates. Plus, I hate that QTE in general, not only for the harm on my controller and my arthritis/tendonitis but that they tend to force tanks to be "AFK" and not let them play the game. IT ISN'T FUN NOR INTERESTING. Please quit that noise.

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I'm sorry then. :c I feel bad now cause I generally liked it. Maybe not the QTE itself but the fact we all have to be on point. When I figured that out on day 1 my group was exploded cause at first we didn't know why we were failing. It felt so good to figure it out and now all my groups even with new babies in it never fail now. Maybe I'm just dumb but it felt really rewarding when I figured it out with my group. I felt proud :c. I haven't tried any extremes yet and never touched sav so it was the highest point in my career. So I got attached to it. And wish more of the game did things like that. Though I'm saying this as someone who's scared to touch higher end content so I guess I know nothing :c I want too though.

Something else I found out just now though. It revives everyone if everyone passes the QTE before the second phase. Like so I didn't know that. so even if people dye before the QTE long as even one person makes it to that then everyone revives for mashing. That was a funny moment to be sure.

Was so happy when I realized the QTE was not in extreme mode, that was hot garbage in normal mode.

I don't want them to get the wrong impression though, I loved the Byakko flying down thing, and suzaku's dance dance revolution phase. It just really depends how it's done; ruby extreme left a bad taste in our mouths though for some odd reason. Anyway, they shouldn't tone down their creativity just because it wasn't fun in one extreme trial (ruby).

They should collect a better data-set of opinions before adopting this philosophy for all extremes. I know for many/some of us it would've been tragic not to have Tsukuyomi's transition phase in the extreme version.

im pleased that the normal mode is somewhat challenging and forces people to pay attention instead of afk. About time we got some difficulty increase given that there's 80 levels of learning before.
that said, the moment to use the tank level 3 lb is hard to spot depending on your camera as me and my brother found out as the mt and ot respectively

good to hear as well no cutscene in the ex version. I haven't touched it yet, but these long ones aren't good for extreme/savage. short ones like Zurvan are, or if we have to have cutscenes make em like eden so we reset and get 2 tokens :P

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Originally Posted by Conando

The QTE would be fine if it weren’t for it being a wipe if even one person fails. I can mash with the best of them, but there are those who can’t.

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This one felt a lot stricter too. I'm used to rather lazily tapping a couple keys on my keyboard, this bar kept slowly dropping though, even when I perked up and started properly mashing my board.

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Originally Posted by millktea

I'm okay with a mechanic that requires everyone to be on point, but not that QTE garbage. It won't work with 1 button and it destroys my controller, disrespecting the players property. The QTE isn't difficulty in accordance of the game, so it's bad. It also disrespects physical disability for no reason.

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That last sentence is why I don't appreciate the QTE in the trial. People of all intellectual and physical abilities play this game. Having a QTE where, should my physical ability limit my ability to mash a button fast enough, leads to a wipe, that just leads to frustration and an inability to progress the MSQ (luckily I was able to after the third wipe, but holy heck my wrist hurt).

My hands are arthritic and I need to wear athletics tape to brace them when playing normally. The QTE made them throb like crazy and by the time it was over they were twinging in pain. Honestly speaking I wouldn't have minded the QTE if not for it's sheer length. Even the increase in button mashing needed compared to past fights wouldn't have been half as bad if it didn't go on for eight plus seconds. Well glad am I that it isn't in the EX version because there's no way in hell I'd be able to farm it.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Well glad am I that it isn't in the EX version because there's no way in hell I'd be able to farm it.

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God, can you imagine?
If they included a big ass cutscene like that in the middle I'd hope that like with Ruby Weapon they'd drop a checkpoint after it.
Enjoy the farm.

Yeah that button press mechanic was very strict, they might want to dial it back with a hotfix....since that trial will keep appearing in trial roulette. I understand the design philosophy behind making it a very strenuous mechanic considering the MSQ implications though, but making it slightly easier would still keep that intact; just don't super nerf it, as they are wont to do.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

Yeah that button press mechanic was very strict, they might want to dial it back with a hotfix....since that trial will keep appearing in trial roulette. I understand the design philosophy behind making it a very strenuous mechanic considering the MSQ implications though, but making it slightly easier would still keep that intact; just don't super nerf it, as they are wont to do.

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My only issue with them touching it in normal mode is they will super nerf it. There's no middle ground with SE it'll either stay strict which I like or turn into baby mode. Please don't give them ideas. PLEASE.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

My only issue with them touching it in normal mode is they will super nerf it. There's no middle ground with SE it'll either stay strict which I like or turn into baby mode. Please don't give them ideas. PLEASE.

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Yeah devs tend to to go from hot to cold, no middle ground for them.
I want to buy Enla a SNES turbo button controller so she can do that push button mechanic though..

It does need dialled back a little though, saying you want the challenge is fine, but there seeing as the trial is a requirement to progress the msq this is discriminatory against those who can't button mash that fast (see my previous comment on a lack of physical ability when I can otherwise play the game just fine)

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Originally Posted by Gomababe

It does need dialled back a little though, saying you want the challenge is fine, but there seeing as the trial is a requirement to progress the msq this is discriminatory against those who can't button mash that fast (see my previous comment on a lack of physical ability when I can otherwise play the game just fine)

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I see your point. Call it PTSD from Square going super hardcore on nerfs and you see why I don't want them touching it. Though there are other ways it can be dailed back. Maybe shorten the time you have to do it or something. I just want the everyone must pass or you die mech to stay in. I do not want that part of it to be taken away.

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Originally Posted by Conando

The QTE would be fine if it weren’t for it being a wipe if even one person fails. I can mash with the best of them, but there are those who can’t.

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This right here is a good point. Imagine the dad from Dad of Light story trying this fight.

I don't get why they randomly decided to make this the only QTE in the game where everyone has to pass it to prevent a wipe and made it so it actually takes enough effort to be difficult for some people.

It's also bad that you can't actually tell who is messing it up so you can replace them in an absolute worst case scenario unlike most party-wipe mechanics.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I don't get why they randomly decided to make this the only QTE in the game where everyone has to pass it to prevent a wipe and made it so it actually takes enough effort to be difficult for some people.

It's also bad that you can't actually tell who is messing it up so you can replace them in an absolute worst case scenario unlike most party-wipe mechanics.

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Simply they not want shaming, on top of two sides here, one sdie doing it on prupsoe which i agree should be seen, but then you have also the side which simply can't do it for alot of reasons, may it be the person itself because people are individuals and might not have the same response time simply, or even going so far about technical problems, controller or keyboard input delayd or not recognized, at worse lags on there side or even server lags or even DC. Those are things they should had considered overall and NOT make it wipe the whole group.

The lack of intermission will definitely have me participating in this trial more than Ruby Weapon or Hades. I feel like any time that you have to give up control of your character in an instance is disruptive. I don't care much for QTE's either, do they really add anything?

It's making up for Shiva savage having a 1min long cutscene with no half way point.