What do you think makes Astrologian so strong?

Personally, I believe it's access to some of the best heals in the game (only Cllective Unconcious is worse than the other healers) and the ability to use them at 0 cost while White Mage and Scholar have to spend a weave slot and/or an aetherflow stack.
The free healing, which is enough to cover most damage instances alone, empowers their cohealer to spend more time DPSing, leading to more damage overall. (I don't think it's a secret that SCH performs far worse alongside a WHM than AST)

I'm curious about others' opinions as well. Thanks for reading.

Collective is better in some scenarios. Unlike SS or Asylum, you don't need to be under the dome to get the effects, just to apply/refresh them. This allows you to pass a lingering Regen or defensive buff, which lasts a decent chunk of time, good for taking a radewide (better for Diurnal) or having a defensive buff for a group of mechanics (better for Nocturnal). The only way to make CU better is to add a boost to healing on the Noct defenses.

But, in addition to above, movement doesn't really hurt AST as much as the other two. Part of this is due to their reduced cast time on their main damage spell, but they also have a buff that temporarily allows them to remove cast times on most spells (save res). This is on top of their decent personal damage and really good party buffs. AST is in a crazy good spot, so it's weird people aren't really playing it.

Few things

1. The same reason all 3 healers are so strong that we can spend 60%+ of gcds on dps, content design is not tailored to healer output very well, reason Ast's healing is strong is due to how you can script uses of everything in a fight, Shiva Savage you can pop most every cd pre pull and it will be up before you need it later.

2. It has DPS boosts, this scales far better than just raw damage as ilv increases especially party wide ones.

3. Weaving, this is necessary with the card system but when not using it as on cd etc, this allows easy usage of ogcds without dps loss, something both other healers suffer from a little bit

4. It recieved potency buffs, it was the weakest out of all 3 healers in every aspect on 5.0 launch but SE buffed it twice, 1st time was a page long list of healing buffs/skill changes, 2nd time was pDPS increase, Whm has barely been touched since launch, and Sch got Energy Drain back but not touched since, it was the 2nd wave of buffs that pushed Ast to be the strongest healer before then it was Sch 2nd and Whm 1st.

What's ironic, is that most AST mains didn't want to be the "strongest" healer -- we simply wanted our buffing (and buff extension) abilities to be versatile, interesting, and engaging. Making all cards a scaled-down Balance buff not only killed the card system's enjoyment, it also smashed all the lore and questing advancement on astro. And as if destroying the card system and its buff enhancement wasn't enough, they also killed the ONE stun (time stop) ability the class had, while another heal job kept theirs.

I'm happy for the hardcore proggers and min-maxers who can eek out an extra hps, but if we're gonna call this a game, shouldn't the top priority be.. well... fun?

Way more ogcd heals: new opposition being reworked from a cool ability too a rather (strong) ocgd aoe heal, collective being a 5 second dmg reduce and a strong hot just for pressing the button once and it has a min cd and 2 essential dignity’s that all is extrem easy too weave with the 1,5 sec cast timer on malefic. And earthly star in competent hands is a ogcd that heals the entire party full and also more dmg in extrem movement heavy phases with Lightspeed and malefic.

AST is best because it has a glam that makes you look like an Owl.

Because SE spends all their SFX budget on their spells so we forget the what nightmare they did to it.

TL;DR: AST suffers from SE's decision to make a hybrid healer in HW and it's too late to delete one of the sects.

Jokes aside. AST's design is actually quite problematic. While I love the job's overall aesthetic and job mechanics. The fact that it originally exists to fill in for WHM or SCH, makes it either too weak or too strong. There really is no inbetween. Similarly, BRD is currently suffering from the same problem but that's a different matter since AST is a bit different.

They have to design AST's kit around two different sects, a shielding and a regen one. It borrows from the other two. It's healing GCD spells literally mirrors most of WHM's save for the lillies and Cure 3 while it has many oGCDs like SCH. Since they wanted to break the dichotomy this xpac, hopefully they'll find better moldings for all the healers in 6.0, but considering that they have already buffed AST into the best healer slot and somewhat likely SCH come 5.3, who knows if they've learned their lesson.

But to add to why they're so strong, it's their card system. Their cards provide straight buffs along with Divination and this is problematic for one of many reasons: it provides an edge in parties that take advantage of it.

Overall, AST is so strong because if it isn't, no many would play it. It's current card system is a chore and if it's utility and rDPS didn't reward you for how much effort you need to put in than the other two, then people would complain and thus SE will buff it to high heaven.

Personally, I don't really see it as too much of an issue but rather that SE believes that continuously changing and buffing AST is the answer to getting more to play it is why some mains have swapped to DPS or the other two.

The job feels so inconsistent especially with how thy view the card system and why they keep changing it.

I do believe that adding a fourth healer with a ease of use but rewarding playstyle would help balance out the 3 we have now because having 4 rather 3 to fight for the 2 healer slots in a party would lead to better design compositions.

What I like:
- a lof of healing/mitigation option
- smooth use of ogcd (thx to 1.5 sec malefic)
- the only healer that can put dmg buff to other party member

What I hate:
- too much on switching target for card (especially during opener)
- no variety of card effect
- lost time magic aspect

What I want for 6.0:
- card system change --> less tarhet switching and more card variety. I rather combine different card before play it (can we set it like dnc step or ninja mudra)
- return of time manipulation skill

Ast is strong because of 3 reasons

Devs are buffing its potencies through the roof because they are trying to stop people from leaving the job
Its overloaded on ogcd healing now because they removed all its utility, time magic etc and its got endless windows to use them
its got damage buffs which is all raiders care about instead of fun so they percieve it as strong because it boosts them in the one area they care about. Even though you can't see it without a parser because its so tiny

in addition, like all healers, there's bugger all to heal in most content because its infrequent and weak and healers have excessive healing potencies and buttons

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ItMe

AST is best because it has a glam that makes you look like an Owl.

---

lmao owl for life :D

It's a very interesting question. I think the strength of the astrologer can be justified by the flexibility of the healing forms and the pure support in the form of a damage buff through the cards (which, however, is called an unimaginative idea by some of the community).

Let's take a look at Diuanalfrom:

Because of the possibilities that hots can put, there is a high HP for the astrologer, although this health output is influenced by OGCDs.

Thus, these OGCDs enable the astrologer to ensure a regulated healing flow. The problem with the story, however, is that players need to understand how these OGCDs pack together. e.g. let the bubble be stacked with CO by the astrologer and therefore no aspected Helios has to be used.

Now look at the Nocturnal form:

This healing form is underestimated by many players! Because in the first place this form should not catch up with HPS output. Rather, this form should negate damage as best as possible (so that it hardly needs to be healed). In this case, too, the nocturnal field (created by asp. Helios) and CO are both stacked together and a larger shield can be built up. If we look at the bubble astrologers it is so that they keep in line for 20 seconds (!!!) there is a 10% mitigation buff (which can be extended up to 40 seconds) on a 60 second CD additionally a healthy AoE heal with Helios.

Flexibility has its costs, doesn't it?

Since Shadowbringers and the neutral sect. the astro completely breaks through the force of the stances. (Only 20% boosted for 20sec and every 120 sec). So that the disadvantage "your stance influences your healing form" is no longer as important as ever.
In Diurnal there are shields that are welcome and in Nocturnal there are hots that support the Co. Healer in both forms.

If you feel you can do everything, where is the disadvantage?

The card system is stressful to play, which is also okay with the strong heal output from the GGCDs.Another weakness of the astrologer is the lack of a second mana regeneration effect the functionality of this spell is so enormous that the mana cost reduction cannot be taken as an integral part of this talent. This could be avoided by the piety of Marteria, which makes much of the community reluctant. However, it is noted for new players.

ASTs do better on average because they have better sustained healing output. WHM are still on top for raw healing with regens, SCH still have better shield abilities, but in terms of letting heal over time work their magic, AST beats them both due to stacking abilities in this specific scenario.

ASTs can both shield and stack regens - and Regens are known to be more effective in potency. However, they are hit heavier with a death because both regens and shields are weaker, which causes them to raw heal to make up for the loss when incoming damage is greater than what the regens can keep up. The problem is that ASTs lack mana sustainability compared to the other two so this problem is magnified significantly on death. Most of the times however, ASTs will not be dying as content is very easy or they are forced to learn content to use Earthly Star properly.

With pure raw healing and some regens, WHM has answers for a lot of mistakes. SCH naturally has answers to mistakes even if they don't have as potent as WHM in heals because shields add a pure HP buffer. ASTs have an answer for both but to a lesser extent. However, on a more general level - when players are playing optimally and doing mechanics, a lot of damage can be neglected - which means a lot of pure raw healing isn't needed. Damage doesn't happen as frequent so what this translates to is that ASTs are more streamlined to fit encounter design moreso than the other two by enabling regens to work.

They also have a lot of flexibility and variability with the card system - giving them a lot of things to do to support the team - at the same time they have a lot of weaving to do within A GCD window so they're constantly busy.

Basically, ASTs have a better average floor to adjust but a higher skill ceiling than the other two. This is also due to the ShB nerfs to healer kits overall. ASTs were technically supposed to be on the weaker side, but they were nerfed to the point where it becomes very difficult to play at the start of ShB since their HoTs/Shields aren't good enough that they had to be buffed to compensate. They were also buffed because a lot of people dislike the card system currently to the point lots of people still wouldn't play AST based on loss of identity.

Several reasons:

1. very mobile thanks to fastcasts, almost completely negates uptime loss even while learning fights; you can even ferry mechanics so others can move less and keep better uptime
2. free single weave every Malefic cast, making our oGCD heals 100% free while WHM and SCH have to pay opportunity costs outside of dot refresh or ED Ruin II for SCH
3. least dps loss and more gain from GCD heals thanks to Neutral/ Horoscope/ Synastry IF you actually have to hardcast - which doesn't happen at all in most fights
4. free mitigation from CU on relatively short cooldown (although timing and placement in Diurnal is admittedly more difficult than pushing Temperance)
5. wide array of oGCD heals, some of them extremely strong like Earthly Star
6. cards and Divination are % bases which are prone to power creep and outperform raw dps extremely early; escpecially if said raw dps is prone to dps loss from moving/ healing

AST combines powerhouse free healing with easily sustained dps uptime and least dps loss from GCD heals.
If not for the annoying "targets both healers" mechanics you would see a lot of solo heal parties with AST pop up.

The only minor drawback AST has is the MP economy which can be easily circumvented by melding some Piety or switching to Piety gear and buff food for prog.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Heilstos

Now look at the Nocturnal form:

This healing form is underestimated by many players! Because in the first place this form should not catch up with HPS output. Rather, this form should negate damage as best as possible (so that it hardly needs to be healed). In this case, too, the nocturnal field (created by asp. Helios) and CO are both stacked together and a larger shield can be built up. If we look at the bubble astrologers it is so that they keep in line for 20 seconds (!!!) there is a 10% mitigation buff (which can be extended up to 40 seconds) on a 60 second CD additionally a healthy AoE heal with Helios.
.

---

Why would you chose to hardcast before the damage just so you have a shield and have less to heal afterwards when you can simply eat the damage (provided that the shield isn't absolutely vital for survival) and let free, strong regens heal it afterwards? Unless you need the shield to survive, it's less efficien and costs you time and MP you could've spent elsewhere.
CI in Noct is crazy good for tank upkeep but the shields from Asp. Helios are probably the least interesting thing about Noct. Not to mention you can plan Neutral IF you absolutely need a shield.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

SCH still have better shield abilities

---

Quick PSA that Succor is literally worse than nocturnal Aspected Helios potency wise.


Now does that mean that SCH has worse shields? Not really but it's still ridiculous to me.


Nocturnal AST: has Celestial Opposition, a 250 potency aoe shield oGCD on a 60 seconds cooldown.


SCH: has Seraph's Consolation, a 300 potency aoe shield with 2 charges on a 120 seconds cooldown...and since SE decided to make the fairy braindead again after fixing it in SB that's basically also an oGCD.


Nocturnal AST: Aspected Benefic, a 500 potency instant cast shield.


SCH: Adloqium, a 375 potency (not factoring in the bonus on a crit) shield with a base cast time of 2 seconds. You could use Recitation to make it a guaranteed 750 potency shield but that means you're basically giving up 1 Aetherflow.


Nocturnal AST: Aspected Helios, a 250 potency aoe shield with a base cast time of 2 seconds.


SCH: Succor, a 225 potency aoe shield with a base cast time of 2 seconds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

Quick PSA that Succor is literally worse than nocturnal Aspected Helios potency wise.

Now does that mean that SCH has worse shields? Not really but it's still ridiculous to me.

---

Oh, when I refer SCH has better shields I mean they have better flexibility in shielding and potential shield values. For shielding values alone, AST and SCH shield values are in competitive range.

Yeah, looking at GCD AoE, potency wise Succor is worse. I do think SCH needs a buff in that regard. Thankfully the difference is that unlike AST, SCH has abilities to bolster their true potency value on their spells which are already fairly close in effective potency. I believe Nocturnal Asp. Benefic vs. Adlo is really a difference in job flavor - Adlo is weaker unless it crits and grants a double shield that it overpowers an AST asp. shield. Adlo is either a 375 potency shield or a 750 potency shield with a crit with 300 potency heal. With Fey illumination, Adlo becomes 412 potency/825 potency shield with crit and a 330 potency heal. With Dissipation, Adlo becomes 450 shield vs 900 shield with crit and a 360 potency heal. while AST's asp. benefic is a flat 500 that doesn't change with a 200 potency heal. If they gave more shield power to SCH, they would have to change the amount of raw healing done.

Don't forget Deployment Tactics too. Although it isn't as good as Celestial Opposition alone for raw mitigation or cd, if you pre-shield Adlo or Adlo before huge damage, SCH can spread that shield after in addition to Seraph's Consolation for more shield potency than succor. I do think Deployment tactics need a buff though, perhaps either lowering its cd and/or giving the Galvanized shield a boost even if it cannot extend Catalyze. Imo more ways to shield rather than dumping it all on one skill is much better as long as the shields aren't too weak.

That's not to say SCH isn't in a fairly terrible place right now and the fairy likes to ghost, but AST don't have as much shield flexibility than SCH - they have more survival power though thanks to being able to flop between regens and shields with their oGCDs. They do remain largely competitive with SCH though for that reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

SCH: has Seraph's Consolation, a 300 potency aoe shield with 2 charges on a 120 seconds cooldown...and since SE decided to make the fairy braindead again after fixing it in SB that's basically also an oGCD.

---

Consolation is 210 potency, actually. SCH's pet actions have a 0.7x modifier due to the fairies having lower stats than the Scholar. (Earthly Star, which acts as a pet as well, is ~1x)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

but AST don't have as much shield flexibility than SCH though for that reason.

---

SCH's only oGCD shielding is 2 within 20s on a 120s cooldown, versus AST's 1 per 60s. That's a lot more flexibility for AST than it is SCH.
SCH has an extra 10% buff they can put on their shields, but Neutral Sect's added regen more than doubles Aspected Benefic/Helios' potency.

Deployment Tactics is pretty worthless alltogether, as spreading a 375 potency shield is less effective than just casting a 405 potency Succor, also ensuring that peoples' HP is topped.
If I would change Deployment, I'd change its effects to restoring broken shields (Galvanise and Seraphic Veil, but not Catalyse) to full strength and refreshing their duration

Do you mean strength in DPS, or strength overall?

DPS is relatively simple - high potencies, high mobility.

Overall? Well, let's take a look at what made SCH god tier for so long. Mobility was also a component but what I wish to highlight more: "regen vs shield" has always been a very false dichotomy. SCH, despite being a "shield" healer, has some very strongest regen - and still has the strongest single-target regen in the game. ShB, then, marked AST gaining shields in its regen stance, and (more) regens in its shield stance. This, in combination with its high mobility and DPS capabilities, pushed AST to the point where SCH is no longer the guaranteed slot, and every optimal healer combination 'should' feature an AST.

SCH+AST is still very slightly stronger than WHM+AST, but that WHM+AST is competitive at all is a milestone in the game's balance history. Never before has Nocturnal Sect been this good.

As a side effect, this combination of capabilities has not only made AST such a strong asset in a standard party setting, it's also pushed AST to the point where it can solo heal content that no other healer can do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YusiKha

Consolation is 210 potency, actually. SCH's pet actions have a 0.7x modifier due to the fairies having lower stats than the Scholar. (Earthly Star, which acts as a pet as well, is ~1x)

---

I do remember the that the fairy has lower stats, I just left it out because I wasn't sure if that is still the case since the rework. But now that you mentioned it I'm reminded of another problem I have with the current terrible Fairy design, your complete lack of control over Embrace.

I can't remember the name of the move but it's the one that takes away cast times for a period of time, plus I like nocturnal stance's shields, so that's what off the top of my head I like about Astro.

As awful as the current card system is I like that it exists, it gives AST atleast something to do besides spamming the same button when there is no healing required. Being able to weave something between each Malefic cast makes it a lot less boring than the other two healers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

As awful as the current card system is I like that it exists, it gives AST atleast something to do besides spamming the same button when there is no healing required. Being able to weave something between each Malefic cast makes it a lot less boring than the other two healers.

---

Same feelings on the cards too, it makes downtime less dull but the cards are so one noted, there's really no thought process other than "who's getting a burst rn?"

The ability to go either way with Regens or Shields, and now to have both at once, even if at a limited rate.

But mainly something it's always had. The ability to grant AOE shields along with a standard AOE heal. Basically SCH if it had Medica. With the ability to make them instant with Lightspeed. This has let it pull off impressive solo heals, like solo healing Neo-Exdeath very early in that tier's cycle.

AST's tale is a funny one. It started out with strong identity, undertuned, weak cards with terrible RNG on top of weak weak heals, so weak that it was a joke compared to the other two healers. Buffing cycles ensue. By the end of Heavensward it's a job with strong identity and super duper strong shields of every type. This carries into Stormblood, and with the addition of Earthly Star, it becomes an insane healing powerhouse without real rival.

Despite being less complex than SCH used to be, it was perceived as the most complex, scaring people away from it, though tons of people played it solely for the identity. Now the identity is shattered, more or less, but its healing power is through the roof. Mechanically it's ridiculous, since every card buff will always make fights shorter, even if you botch who you use the cards on. It has more healing power than I know what to do with, honestly. But also honestly, its main power comes from being able to have shields. Without the shield stance, it wouldn't really be all that special.

And if SCH wasn't on the back burner for once/toned down like it has been, it'd probably be there right along with AST. Or if they just gave SCH an AOE GCD that is the equivalent of Medica.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

The ability to go either way with Regens or Shields

---

Wait - the ability to be played alongside both healers, putting everyone on an equal playing field, is OP?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

The ability to grant AOE shields along with a standard AOE heal

---

And people cast Helios?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

AST's tale is a funny one. It started out with strong identity, undertuned, weak cards with terrible RNG on top of weak weak heals, so weak that it was a joke compared to the other two healers. Buffing cycles ensue. By the end of Heavensward it's a job with strong identity and super duper strong shields of every type. This carries into Stormblood, and with the addition of Earthly Star, it becomes an insane healing powerhouse without real rival.

---

Strong shields don't mean much. The game is balanced that the weaker shields are still enough to cover 'requires shield' mechanics, and shielding mechanics that aren't lethal is a waste of a shield.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Despite being less complex than SCH used to be, it was perceived as the most complex, scaring people away from it

---

So multiple layers of RNG and potency calculations, as well as no weave slots (1.5s malefic was only added in patch 4.3), is less complex than a 2nd DoT?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

But also honestly, its main power comes from being able to have shields. Without the shield stance, it wouldn't really be all that special.

---

So AST should only be allowed to play with SCH then. Despite Nocturnal being the weaker of the Sects, it's very overpowered. Alright.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

And if SCH wasn't on the back burner for once/toned down like it has been, it'd probably be there right along with AST. Or if they just gave SCH an AOE GCD that is the equivalent of Medica.

---

So it's not having the fairy skills be ineffectual and unsatisfying, the requirement of sacrificing your own DPS to use healing tools WHM & AST get for free. That's not what makes SCH less desirable than AST.
Instead, it's the lack of access to the worst AoE heal in the game.
Alright.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YusiKha

Wait - the ability to be played alongside both healers, putting everyone on an equal playing field, is OP?

---

It would be too much of a good thing if the AST were able to distribute shields and hots all at once in a constant manner. It's just that you live with the consistency for the stance you choose. Or you just cheat with Neutral sec for 20s. ;D So there is still something missing for the status of "being an OP Healer".^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YusiKha

And people cast Helios?

---

Yep People cast Helios in 2020 xD Well fun aside. For me it is about to estimate whether it is enough with a horoscope with Helios to save mana (even if it is only 100 mana).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YusiKha

Strong shields don't mean much. The game is balanced that the weaker shields are still enough to cover 'requires shield' mechanics, and shielding mechanics that aren't lethal is a waste of a shield.

---

I usually get positive feedback from my co healers that the bosses' first AoE damage spells in particular do not need to be healed. And mostly an Assize is enough to top the group when I'm Nocturnal. That means not here that I portray every ability.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YusiKha

So multiple layers of RNG and potency calculations, as well as no weave slots (1.5s malefic was only added in patch 4.3), is less complex than a 2nd DoT?

---

I totally agree with that. If you don't worry about what you're doing. Especially since the idea came up in the forum to see Minor Arcana as an independent skill. As a conversion and then weioterhin play out.

But for Controler usere is help there in this form: ControllAST: Playing cards on Controller

And on the Base Idea from on of the greates AST I know "Bokchoy Mcnuggets" I made this Card play in ShB (for PC-user)

But its like Astesia Ahri explained in the balance Discord:

Quote:

---

There is one set of macro types I will excuse under the condition that using them, the player understands:
1) It is objectively unoptimal and is costing them DPS and performance
2) They are training wheels that should be worked out of ideally
3) They will likely cause hiccups with queueing at times and discombobulate you

---

Quote:

---

Despite being less complex than SCH used to be, it was perceived as the most complex, scaring people away from it, though tons of people played it solely for the identity. Now the identity is shattered, more or less, but its healing power is through the roof. Mechanically it's ridiculous, since every card buff will always make fights shorter, even if you botch who you use the cards on. It has more healing power than I know what to do with, honestly. But also honestly, its main power comes from being able to have shields. Without the shield stance, it wouldn't really be all that special.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YusiKha

So AST should only be allowed to play with SCH then. Despite Nocturnal being the weaker of the Sects, it's very overpowered. Alright.

---

For me it heard that AST should play in Nocturnal, because the Nocturnal playstil is easyer than play a SCH in his opinion.

Quote:

---

And if SCH wasn't on the back burner for once/toned down like it has been, it'd probably be there right along with AST. Or if they just gave SCH an AOE GCD that is the equivalent of Medica.

---

That has the SCH every 15s with "Emergency Tactics" so Succor has a HP from 405 (180 normal heal + the 225 HP [1.25*180HP] from the shildpart). And more you do not need in the most cases. But its like Yusi Kha said you try to avoid this. But you are right is easyer to use only Helios instand of using Tactics and Succor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YusiKha

Wait - the ability to be played alongside both healers, putting everyone on an equal playing field, is OP?



And people cast Helios?



Strong shields don't mean much. The game is balanced that the weaker shields are still enough to cover 'requires shield' mechanics, and shielding mechanics that aren't lethal is a waste of a shield.



So multiple layers of RNG and potency calculations, as well as no weave slots (1.5s malefic was only added in patch 4.3), is less complex than a 2nd DoT?



So AST should only be allowed to play with SCH then. Despite Nocturnal being the weaker of the Sects, it's very overpowered. Alright.



So it's not having the fairy skills be ineffectual and unsatisfying, the requirement of sacrificing your own DPS to use healing tools WHM & AST get for free. That's not what makes SCH less desirable than AST.
Instead, it's the lack of access to the worst AoE heal in the game.
Alright.

---

Cant agree more. Well said. Sometimes ppl express their opinions without having a single clue about the subject