Please SE, do something about housing

Please SE, i beg you. Add more wards, more subdivisions, a third, a fourth but please. This housing is a mess. It's very tiring to click for hours and see so many people trying to get the house too.

Just add more please and now. We all want a house!

This topic is new and interesting, thanks for making a new thread instead of using one of the other 20.

You're welcome i guess? Lol

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Originally Posted by KadaRemnant

Please SE, i beg you. Add more wards, more subdivisions, a third, a fourth but please. This housing is a mess. It's very tiring to click for hours and see so many people trying to get the house too.

Just add more please and now. We all want a house!

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You are not the first nor will be the last to ask SE to do something about housing. The true question is when will people come to terms that clearly SE wants housing to be limited, and not readily available to all.

Those that say well God Yoshi said otherwise in a live letter. Fair, but their actions over the years clearly state otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Awha

You are not the first nor will be the last to ask SE to do something about housing. The true question is when will people come to terms that clearly SE wants housing to be limited, and not readily available to all.

Those that say well God Yoshi said otherwise in a live letter. Fair, but their actions over the years clearly state otherwise.

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I don't think it's that they want housing to remain limited. I think it's that they don't know how to bring it to the full playerbase without the server imploding. "Server limitations" gets tossed out as an excuse for why things can't be added all the time (including seemingly basic things) and I can't imagine a housing fix would be a small undertaking. Not to say that they shouldn't be looking for a fix, but that could be why we haven't seen one yet.

Auto demolish is STILL not active, also many many players own multiple homes on multiple alts and evade demolish somehow. Those issues take priority over “mAkE mOaR hOmeS”

There's like 2 other housing threads active right now. Can you at least look at the front page before making another one?
And they are adding more housing when the Ishgard wards drop (probably in 6.0). Due to how server intensive entire wards are, they can't just add new ones whenever they want, they gotta make sure the servers can support them.

And as I said, they are going to be adding an entirely new ward relatively soon, so assuming that they add an equal amount of Ishgard wards, that'll be a total of 21 wards, which will be 42 more intensive instances for every single server (it'll also be 1260 more houses per server).

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I don't think it's that they want housing to remain limited. I think it's that they don't know how to bring it to the full playerbase without the server imploding. "Server limitations" gets tossed out as an excuse for why things can't be added all the time (including seemingly basic things) and I can't imagine a housing fix would be a small undertaking. Not to say that they shouldn't be looking for a fix, but that could be why we haven't seen one yet.

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In the end the reason as to why is more so budget related and I get that. Housing change is not something they can fix with the snap of the finger. In the end does the why really matter? Does not change the fact housing is a finite resource and a complete overhaul probably not a worthy investment since we do not know how much SE gives the ffxiv team and nor do we know if said budget has restrictions in placed.

Maybe I am just jaded but at this point in time I think any shift from the status quo is a pipe dream.

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Originally Posted by Awha

In the end the reason as to why is more so budget related and I get that. Housing change is not something they can fix with the snap of the finger. In the end does the why really matter? Does not change the fact housing is a finite resource and a complete overhaul probably not a worthy investment since we do not know how much SE gives the ffxiv team and nor do we know if said budget has restrictions in placed.

Maybe I am just jaded but at this point in time I think any shift from the status quo is a pipe dream.

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I sincerely hope that they do put the time and funds into fixing housing, but I'm with you in the fact I don't think we'll see any major changes. My only hope at this point is that they are planning a new type of system with the release of Ishgard housing.

They can remove the rng timer too, first there first served, instead of making us click the placard 1000 times and more. One house in lavender bed is there since 14 hours. It's not normal.

Problem with "first there first served" are the people who bot and do black market reddit flipping and selling, which is the entire point of the rng timer was put in to prevent. (does it prevent it all? No, but it slowed it down)

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Originally Posted by KadaRemnant

They can remove the rng timer too, first there first served, instead of making us click the placard 1000 times and more. One house in lavender bed is there since 14 hours. It's not normal.

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I believe the timer was to cut down on potential RMT and the general price-gouging that was rampant before the timer was in place.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I believe the timer was to cut down on potential RMT and the general price-gouging that was rampant before the timer was in place.

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And now it only benefits bots who spam it every second for the whole time

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Originally Posted by Jin-

And now it only benefits bots who spam it every second for the whole time

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I don't disagree, but I can only assume they went with what they felt was the lesser of two evils. XIV's housing system needs a massive overhaul.

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Originally Posted by KadaRemnant

They can remove the rng timer too, first there first served, instead of making us click the placard 1000 times and more. One house in lavender bed is there since 14 hours. It's not normal.

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The thing I sincerely don't understand is that players through their own complaining on these very forums are the reason we have timers in the first place.

The housing system was first come first server, or purchase from someone. They added the timer because people complained day and night about high resell pricing costs and you know what is happening today?

The invisible timer punishes first time home buyers, which is insane... and people still sell FCs or plots for relocation for millions of gil.

I don't really see how the system is any different than before.

Also, for people still not informed. Owning multiple FC homes is not illegal in this game. Some people were grandfathered in and others purchased their FC homes after the temporary changes were finished back in 4.1... So please get informed and redirect your energy toward making useful suggestions SE might take us up on in regards to housing.

Also overall, I don't mind multiple housing threads, maybe SE will see this and realize that they are at the cusp of really needing to address this because the game is too big now.

Edit - - Didn't see the page 2 of this thread, the invisible timer history was already discussed! I'll just consider my post an add on to what was already said.

I think the timers were made in good faith, and something was needed for the very rampant and very easy to sell houses- now you have to sell through FCs which makes it a bit harder (though definitely not impossible). If you want to buy a house you're going to have to do something silly, rather than just straight buying it from a reseller.

The end issue though is just the housing system. There will always be severe issues so long as we have this system.

Remove the timer? Super easy to sell houses directly to players, the most rampant of reselling. Add the timer? Giant pain in the booty to buy a house in a semi-interesting location (can usually easily buy a small goblet and transfer into location you actually want, though you're spending a lot of gil for that. . .), and still players are selling houses through FCs which are a bit more cumbersome to deal with but it's possible. Add a lottery so players don't need to wait for a timer? Bots can still skew the results to their favor but it's less controllable... and houses can still be sold by the FC route.

Okay how about adding a bunch of wards? Since they're unable, so far, to add wards as each unique area needs it (and add them in bulk cross many servers).. each time you add to the system you're VERY likely killing whole neighborhoods and their potential. An area that isn't that interesting or an a server that just doesn't need it..? Too bad, we're going to help make your neighborhood more dead- congratulations the whole purpose of the system shooting itself in the foot. Besides that you'll still suffer from theme issues too, since the theme that is hot and desirable will fill up and everyone will be pushed into the less desirable areas which also makes them more likely to be dead areas.

Even if you add strictly based on amount of houses in each ward you still suffer from things like the actually desirable lots being taken over less desirable ones. Wanted that large? haha, no.

Ultimately the system will be the problem in every solution, as it always has been lol. As I don't value the scarcity in a game world that neither demands it, FFXIV's lore is very magical and not limited, and a game style that neither fits it (theme park)- I feel the system deserves my top shelf salt and disappointment. That doesn't mean I can't see how we got here, with the whole 1.0 -> 2.0 dance and the intense amount of work and resources it required already, as well as probably a surprise on popularity and maybe unsure fixed direction the game will go (clearly theme park now)- it unfortunately seems fairly logical there would be some thorns... Though I hope they're working on reworking core systems (kind of like WoW did in some sense) to fix things like our memory issues (glamour log, house stuff, account binding mog purchases), and perhaps a graphic update (the style is nice but game isn't the only good looking mmo lol), or maybe that they're working on their next MMO to be released in some time (not to release now but at least getting proper and non-dev crunch time to produce the systems needed).

In many ways, I wish they never made housing available to players and just kept it for FCs as originally intended. Apartments would have been able to solve most of the housing desires and the resources they could have put into it instead of adding new wards over and over again would have allowed for much larger instanced apartments. From what I understand about the wards for housing is that each ward is essentially a whole instance that uses the same resources as a dungeon / raid / trial. A server can only handle so many instances before its full, even idle, the instances still take up resources. The servers were upgraded for Stormblood and are probably up for replacement for 6.0. That is why Ishguard housing is probably not going to arrive until 5.5 or 5.55 when those servers will start to go online.

Instead of adding new wards over and over again, I'd rather see them focus on making medium and large apartments available. I know that still takes up storage resources but its better than endless wards and hard drives are cheaper than servers.

Ya'll asked for the RNG timer, whether you meant to or not, when you begged and begged for something to be done about house flipping, so I honestly have very little sympathy for that.

The best solution would be instanced housing but I don't think its really feasible to code, test, and implement it, rn.

With the current system, as soon as we don't request for an evolutive housing, they have almost everything to do some upgrade. The tricky part is mostly the data map.
Technically, the easiest way to fix everything without a big overhaul is :
- Three sizes of apartments
- Apartments opened to FCs
- Greenhouse available as an option with the access in the buildings hall
- Workshop available as an option with the access in thte building hall.

It is far from my dream (which would be close from the Wildstar system) but at least they don't need to erase what has already been done.

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

With the current system, as soon as we don't request for an evolutive housing, they have almost everything to do some upgrade. The tricky part is mostly the data map.
Technically, the easiest way to fix everything without a big overhaul is :
- Three sizes of apartments
- Apartments opened to FCs
- Greenhouse available as an option with the access in the buildings hall
- Workshop available as an option with the access in thte building hall.

It is far from my dream (which would be close from the Wildstar system) but at least they don't need to erase what has already been done.

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I agree. Althought having a garden per se would probably be nicer to some, having access to a greenhouse would be a great alternative.

I'm surprised they didn't implement such options when they added apartments. It seemed pretty logic from the get-go.

Hopefully they will add something like that at some point.

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Originally Posted by KadaRemnant

Please SE, i beg you. Add more wards, more subdivisions, a third, a fourth but please. This housing is a mess. It's very tiring to click for hours and see so many people trying to get the house too.

Just add more please and now. We all want a house!

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Assuming you do not own a plot, out of curiosity if you finally got yourself some housing today or tomorrow; what would you do with it?

If you do own a home, why are you begging SE to add more wards? I am going to dismiss the notion that everyone wants housing. While it is commendable to desire that everyone is happy with the housing market, it also isn't realistic by any stretch. So why do YOU want more wards knowing what you know about the game at this point?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I am going to dismiss the notion...

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Oh! Please No! Don't! You monster! :D

It's not unrealistic.

While it's impossible to have all players completely happy with the housing system (and this goes for any game), making housing available to all characters in a theme-park MMO should be the bare minimum they strive for.

For all the things they copied from XI, borrowing and expanding upon the moghouse system could have been a good idea. They were a similar size to that of an inn-room (I think slightly larger), but they could be fully decorated, had gardening via flower pots, gave access to and you could apply various buffs to your character. These were later expanded to add a second story, a patio, and a large gardening instance.

So with that train of thought...I wonder how the playerbase would feel about expanding inn-rooms as a starting point instead. They're already available to every character, and this could let each person choose a location of their liking. Open up decorating and allow pot-gardening (or preferably add a garden instance), and if they're feeling generous, maybe continue to follow XI and add that second-story and patio as well. I feel like that could appease the housing need for a large amount of players, while building upon an existing system in the game.

I do realize similar suggestions have been made for apartments. My reasoning for going the inn-room route is that even apartments are limited, and many servers no longer have any that are available. Also, with apartments you are still limited to The Mist, The Goblet, and whatever Gridania is called (totally drawing a blank) - opening up inn rooms in this way would give far more options for where someone can call home. All characters have access to inn-rooms, so it could be a nice place to start.

Is it my ideal housing? Nahhh, but it could be enough to make me give up my house.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Oh! Please No! Don't! You monster! :D

It's not unrealistic.

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It's definitely unrealistic. There are plenty of players who have stated they don't want housing. Not everyone wants their own space to decorate or cares about intercross gardening. They're perfectly fine going to one of the cities to use a Summoning Bell or Marketboard.

But I doubt those players are the majority. The majority would like to own a house.

The problem this game has is how the active player population is distributed and how housing is designed so that all worlds end up with the same number of wards (and houses). JP players tend to prefer lower population worlds so 5040 houses per world easily serves their majority on all but two JP worlds. Western players tend to prefer high population worlds so the number of houses only serves the majority on 4 EU worlds and 1 NA world. When you factor in the number of houses owned by what are essentially solo player FCs and multi-house owners (grandfathered or otherwise), that probably drops to only 2 EU worlds where the majority is served with those being the new worlds added just before Shadowbringers launch.

The ward system just isn't designed to handle rapidly increasing player populations or large disparities in population distribution. We know something is coming at the end of Ishgard Restoration but we'll have to wait to see if it's just a new housing district or if there's additional changes that will be introduced at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Awha

You are not the first nor will be the last to ask SE to do something about housing. The true question is when will people come to terms that clearly SE wants housing to be limited, and not readily available to all.

Those that say well God Yoshi said otherwise in a live letter. Fair, but their actions over the years clearly state otherwise.

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I've already come to terms with it. I'd be happy if they made apartments 2 floors and the ability to use more than 2 damn flower pots. Meh.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It's definitely unrealistic. There are plenty of players who have stated they don't want housing. Not everyone wants their own space to decorate or cares about intercross gardening. They're perfectly fine going to one of the cities to use a Summoning Bell or Marketboard.

But I doubt those players are the majority. The majority would like to own a house.

The problem this game has is how the active player population is distributed and how housing is designed so that all worlds end up with the same number of wards (and houses). JP players tend to prefer lower population worlds so 5040 houses per world easily serves their majority on all but two JP worlds. Western players tend to prefer high population worlds so the number of houses only serves the majority on 4 EU worlds and 1 NA world. When you factor in the number of houses owned by what are essentially solo player FCs and multi-house owners (grandfathered or otherwise), that probably drops to only 2 EU worlds where the majority is served with those being the new worlds added just before Shadowbringers launch.

The ward system just isn't designed to handle rapidly increasing player populations or large disparities in population distribution. We know something is coming at the end of Ishgard Restoration but we'll have to wait to see if it's just a new housing district or if there's additional changes that will be introduced at the same time.

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Not unrealistic, just not the best solution.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

While it's impossible to have all players completely happy with the housing system (and this goes for any game), making housing available to all characters in a theme-park MMO should be the bare minimum they strive for.

For all the things they copied from XI, borrowing and expanding upon the moghouse system could have been a good idea. They were a similar size to that of an inn-room (I think slightly larger), but they could be fully decorated, had gardening via flower pots, gave access to and you could apply various buffs to your character. These were later expanded to add a second story, a patio, and a large gardening instance.

So with that train of thought...I wonder how the playerbase would feel about expanding inn-rooms as a starting point instead. They're already available to every character, and this could let each person choose a location of their liking. Open up decorating and allow pot-gardening (or preferably add a garden instance), and if they're feeling generous, maybe continue to follow XI and add that second-story and patio as well. I feel like that could appease the housing need for a large amount of players, while building upon an existing system in the game.

I do realize similar suggestions have been made for apartments. My reasoning for going the inn-room route is that even apartments are limited, and many servers no longer have any that are available. Also, with apartments you are still limited to The Mist, The Goblet, and whatever Gridania is called (totally drawing a blank) - opening up inn rooms in this way would give far more options for where someone can call home. All characters have access to inn-rooms, so it could be a nice place to start.

Is it my ideal housing? Nahhh, but it could be enough to make me give up my house.

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Interestingly FFXI also managed making an entire garden island for everyone and expanding your mog room to a second floor.

While obviously the large houses are certainly larger than the mog rooms, and the island is separate from the inn room, I would definitely agree that if they had taken their system from FFXI and went big it would have been pretty cool (assuming improvements, and particularly the continued concept of smooth growth).

I really think it would have a far more impressive system if they started everyone on a journey of homely growth... As I think it is really interesting to have a home base, a certain sort of lodestone of return, that grows alongside your character, because heck most of us like RPGs because of the growth- it's great fun to grow your character, having more than just your character grow I think adds an interesting element.

Dinky little cupboard you're afforded early on simply for being part of the GC or something, congrats here is your cupboard under the stairs. Shortly there after upgrading it to an actual room, more impressively adding features to it since you can rely on everyone having access to it (can make it a core part of the game), and just keep upgrading the system. Gaining access to new floors, balconies, outdoor plots, larger and bigger, as the story does itself lol. Like finally after ShB we get Wild Star housing from starting at an inn room, made fairly logical via the MSQ of ShB as I can easily see ourselves finding a little pocket of 'that one place' that is manipulable, it would be an amazing journey. . .

Even though a lot of servers have apartments available they're still pretty hobbled by the system, in that the game doesn't really beckon you into the as I think would have been a much better choice (like FFXI's, a sort of progression mechanic), they are technically limited (which means you can't realistically bind interesting features to them without very potentially making a very sad system for some players, like houses and FC who don't own one), they're fixed and unwieldy which adds to potential buyer's remorse (picking the wrong location, wrong ward, don't upgrade smoothly if you had wanted to go house but weren't sure, etc), and they're clearly the worse version of actual houses (which has it's own issues, and leads back into buyer's remorse lol).

Anyway, yeah.. I think housing is a really interesting opportunity to add basically a second character to your character. Even in sRPG that weren't so customize-able I thought it was pretty neat, like seeing all your achievements in Bastion. Or the previously mentioned Assassin Creed games with limited decoration ability.

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Originally Posted by Awha

You are not the first nor will be the last to ask SE to do something about housing. The true question is when will people come to terms that clearly SE wants housing to be limited, and not readily available to all.

Those that say well God Yoshi said otherwise in a live letter. Fair, but their actions over the years clearly state otherwise.

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if korean servers are anything to go by each district can have 32 wards.

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Originally Posted by KadaRemnant

Please SE, i beg you. Add more wards, more subdivisions, a third, a fourth but please. This housing is a mess. It's very tiring to click for hours and see so many people trying to get the house too.

Just add more please and now. We all want a house!

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as far as i know from looking at past live letters, SE didnt plan ff14 to be as popular as it is, and housing from ARR. it was fc only, but players wanted FC housing as personal as well so they just added to it.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

If you do own a home, why are you begging SE to add more wards? I am going to dismiss the notion that everyone wants housing. While it is commendable to desire that everyone is happy with the housing market, it also isn't realistic by any stretch. So why do YOU want more wards knowing what you know about the game at this point?

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I own a home, which I got largely through Dumb Luck. When 5.1 hit and the new wards opened up, I went wandering the Goblet, the Lavender Beds, and Mist looking for vacant plots where people had relocated to larger plots in new wards (or to plots in a different housing area), and I found people camping literally every single one. I didn't want to get into a click war with any, so after like three hours I decided to give up; I teleported back to my FC house in Shirogane to deal with something... and then thought "Hey, maybe there's a plot in one of the Shirogane wards." I went and looked, and found one small plot free. I thought "Well, that'll be camped, but I'll go check" and it wasn't. And I thought "Oh, it must be on the timer still, but I'll click anyway..."

Boom, unexpected house. And I was lucky; as I started settling in over the next couple of hours, several of my neighbors came over with housewarming gifts and I made new friends. (I have since learned what an unusual experience that is, which makes me a little sad; meeting neighbors and making new friends who I've even gone and run content with was one of the best parts of buying the house, and I strongly suspect is what SquareEnix was aiming for originally.)

Two of my friends also were lucky and managed to snag houses once the new wards opened up to non-FC/non-relocation purchases a while later (though neither had the 'neighbors wandering over to greet and give welcome gifts' experience, which was where I started to realize I was unusually lucky that my ward is actually not dead).

But I have a lot of friends who also want houses who were totally unable to get them, and still haven't. That's why I don't use the garden plot at my house, though I love hanging out in my yard (I am happy with my landscaping work); I garden at the FC house and gave a friend permissions on my house so they can garden there. Another of the friends helps me with the FC gardening, and gave another of the friend group access to the garden plot at their house to do gardening there.

It feels a little silly to do this musical chairs with garden plots, honestly.

So despite having a house, why would I want more housing in some fashion? Because I have a lot of friends who want to experiment with gardening, or who want to be able to do exterior decoration/landscaping, neither of which you can do in apartments or FC private chambers. And doing the "I'll use this garden so you can use my garden" shuffle is a bit ridiculous.

I'm saving up for an Ishgardian House, whenever that comes up lol.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Assuming you do not own a plot, out of curiosity if you finally got yourself some housing today or tomorrow; what would you do with it?

If you do own a home, why are you begging SE to add more wards? I am going to dismiss the notion that everyone wants housing. While it is commendable to desire that everyone is happy with the housing market, it also isn't realistic by any stretch. So why do YOU want more wards knowing what you know about the game at this point?

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I had a house before but i needed to take a break and i lost it. Back then i thought i'll get one back eventually but after coming back... I tried 5 houses now and i spent 7 hours clicking on them only to see it bought by someone. I just see now that it's impossible to get a house, you have tp be lucky but it's okay. They should add new wards ans subdivisions to give everyone a chance and remove the rng timer and find something else. And with a house i'll always be in there, decorating, invite friends, listen the music, practice on my dummy, gardening etc. I really want my house back and a lot want one too but now it's veru frustrating and hopeless to buy a house.

Something needs to be done asap. It's very frustrating to see plots go free but you know you will never get it. Having a 24 hours rng timer window is not right, even cruel. Make it 2 hours max, it will be better. No one want to click on a placard for 24 hours, i have other things to do. SE do something quick. It's not right to do this to your players.

Want a plot better get that click on.

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Originally Posted by KadaRemnant

Something needs to be done asap. It's very frustrating to see plots go free but you know you will never get it. Having a 24 hours rng timer window is not right, even cruel. Make it 2 hours max, it will be better. No one want to click on a placard for 24 hours, i have other things to do. SE do something quick. It's not right to do this to your players.

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You do realize each server will have people from different time zone right?
It sounds quite selfish to me

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

You do realize each server will have people from different time zone right?
It sounds quite selfish to me

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Some people can't play on weekdays. Some can't play weekends. Some can only play an hour or two a day. Point is, it will never be a fair system for the playerbase as a whole. As it is now, the timer can take over 24 hours which is absurdly stupid.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Some people can't play on weekdays. Some can't play weekends. Some can only play an hour or two a day. Point is, it will never be a fair system for the playerbase as a whole. As it is now, the timer can take over 24 hours which is absurdly stupid.

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Exactly, that is why you get a system with random timer that no one knows how long.
It is the best thing you can get right now.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Exactly, that is why you get a system with random timer that no one knows how long.
It is the best thing you can get right now.

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But it's not really. Plenty of people will inevitably miss out depending on when the house was demolished.

Now if they insist on keeping the housing timer, lowering the timer from 24+ hours to something more reasonable, say maybe 3-5 hours, really wouldn't change all that much. It's still pure chance if you're online when it pops, still pure luck if you get the winning click, but at least people can move on with actually enjoying their time in-game far quicker.

Sure it can stand to be lower but that would not curb the complaints or even change the dynamic of what someone has to go through to get a plot. End of the day as it stands if you want a plot you have to either come to terms with being a "mindlessly" clicking drone, and will not be doing much else during that time frame, or move. At the very least the 24 hour timer gives a chance to the most people to at least try for the plot if they so desire.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Sure it can stand to be lower but that would not curb the complaints or even change the dynamic of what someone has to go through to get a plot. End of the day as it stands if you want a plot you have to either come to terms with being a "mindlessly" clicking drone, and will not be doing much else during that time frame, or move. At the very least the 24 hour timer gives a chance to the most people to at least try for the plot if they so desire.

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Quick preface to explain my point of view on XIV's housing: I think the system is crap and needs a massive reworking (and should be available to everyone). My thoughts have been hashed out in more detail in all the various threads, but that's at the base of it.

So now, you are correct that lowering the timer on houses won't change the actual process itself, but it will allow people to move onto other activities far sooner. It's a bad process as a whole, and it can also be quite unhealthy for the player themselves. In theory, having the potential for 24+ hours on a house would allow more people to take a stab at it, but plenty of houses open-up well under that time frame and so any perceived fairness that a longer timer may provide doesn't really hold that much weight in my opinion.