Boy is the Zeta weapon grind dumb

Yes, I am unspeakably late to the party.

Yes, I am aware that it used to be a fair bit harder (particularly when you couldn't solo the instances, or when the required book mobs were camped, etc.).

But Jesus Christ is this bad content. I mean like dawn of MMOs, I would be 'scratching my head if this was a quest chain in Ultima Online'-level garbage. I cannot believe that anyone ever thought that any element of this stupidity might qualify as either A) fun, B) compelling, or C) epic. It's none of the above - it's just swill.

I'll be finishing the thing tonight, and will never repeat the process on another character or job. But boy oh boy do I regret the decision to begin it at all. This is just lousy, sloppy content of the first order.

The whole point of relic weapons are to have an avenue to get highest ilvl without being a raider. When it was relevant content, the parts of the quest released in chunks to make it more palatable, but you were still trading time and your sanity for not having to do some of the hardest content in the game. If relic were less of a slog, there would be less point for people to do savage.

If you’re complaining about this now, over half a decade after it stopped being relevant, that’s on you, not the game. No one is forcing you to do this.

It's a grind. It's the weapon that casuals tout showing that relics are for casuals.


I did 3 when they were current, and have since done about 4 or 5 more?


They aren't really that bad. Just time consuming. Used to be people doing them in parties, making it a community effort, so yeah, it's far worse solo cuz it's boring.

Also doing Zeta weapon and agree, very casually, and then think back to how people could have bothered with it back in the day when it clearly would have been more tedious, and crowded for objectives. I'm doing it very casually so it doesn't destroy my brain. Powering up aetherical activity at the moment.

Just got a new Nexus. I on the other did find it relatively fun and relaxing grind, feels decently rewarding as well. However I would have preferred it more if the grind was more evenly divided over the steps. Didn't particularly dislike the book phase but the discrepancy between that phase and the others is too much imo

It's supposed to be a long grind you know, you're in no way obligated to get those weapons. It's not supposed to be exciting or "compelling" content but rather something that keeps you busy, may scratch the grinding itch some people have.

edit: something else I don't like about doing the Zeta now is that you don't get to engage in decent combat, ever, during the whole questline. Lots of teleporting and one shotting instead, and when you do get to do decent combat you're synced to an overly gutted kit.

lol, being unable to solo instances and people killing your enemies would be the smallest thing for you to worry if this was unnerfed.

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Originally Posted by TeraRamis

if this was a quest chain in Ultima Online'-level garbage.

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it's funny you say that because Ultima Online was one of the first MMO's that Yoshi-p played and was a big fan of when it was originally out in play.

While I agree at how tedious the whole thing is, that really was the point of it on release- to be something “hardcore” players could grind out. There really wasn’t a lot of endgame or side content in 2.0 to 3.0. Things like wondrous tales, treasure maps, even gold saucer didn’t exist and a certain part of the player base complained there was nothing to work towards once you hit 50. (The cap in 2.0)

...so yeah! Relics!

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Originally Posted by TeraRamis

Yes, I am unspeakably late to the party.

Yes, I am aware that it used to be a fair bit harder (particularly when you couldn't solo the instances, or when the required book mobs were camped, etc.).

But Jesus Christ is this bad content. I mean like dawn of MMOs, I would be 'scratching my head if this was a quest chain in Ultima Online'-level garbage. I cannot believe that anyone ever thought that any element of this stupidity might qualify as either A) fun, B) compelling, or C) epic. It's none of the above - it's just swill.

I'll be finishing the thing tonight, and will never repeat the process on another character or job. But boy oh boy do I regret the decision to begin it at all. This is just lousy, sloppy content of the first order.

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If you think the ff14 one is bad, hate what you would say to the ff11 relic. At launch took 5 years to complete, unless you was rich.

Oh gee someone complaining about a relic chase. Let me just say it's standard fare for all relics and all relic steps. Just wait for the next segment of the new relic line.

This thing designed to take months to a year+ of time to do is taking longer than a couple days, please halp.

You'd have tons of fun with EQ epics.

Yeah I did it in HW when it was already easier, tho not as easy as now, and it was godawful. I haven't bothered to do it again either. Also haven't finished my HW relic because the next phase is light farming and screw doing that again. Never touched StB's because Eureka. And if I finish ShB's, I have a feeling I'll only have the interest and fortitude to do it once too. No idea how people can bring themselves to do more than one of these things, but more power to them. Glad someone enjoys it, or enjoys the rewards enough, at least.

I don't think Relics are something you rush through, it's something that you can do if you're bored.

I do think that ARR is the most tedious of all Relics, but I guess that's the main reason why they give you a title when completing one.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

I don't think Relics are something you rush through, it's something that you can do if you're bored.

I do think that ARR is the most tedious of all Relics, but I guess that's the main reason why they give you a title when completing one.

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And a housing item!

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Originally Posted by TeraRamis

I'll be finishing the thing tonight, and will never repeat the process on another character or job. But boy oh boy do I regret the decision to begin it at all. This is just lousy, sloppy content of the first order.

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Multiple ARR relic owners said the exact same thing.

To this day those designs are still some of the best they've ever released, and are reminiscent of a time SE didn't just give BiS away.

Did it for one weapon like two years ago and never did it again. HW relics are less brain death inducting imo. Then they slipped backwards with Eureka and made them actually cause physical discomfort/pain if you did long periods of grinding in Pagos. New relic is like an overcorrection because Pagos and Eureka was so shitty. Now they're super easy with lots of story. I personally prefer this and think that is how they should be. They're only relevant for the last 3 months of an expansion anyways when all the raids and content is played out and people are just waiting on the next expansion.

I do have a few questions: aside from randomly running dungeons, how do you figure out which dungeons are on 'the bonus'...? How often do the bonus dungeons switch? Is there more than one bonus dungeon at a time?

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Originally Posted by TeraRamis

I do have a few questions: aside from randomly running dungeons, how do you figure out which dungeons are on 'the bonus'...? How often do the bonus dungeons switch? Is there more than one bonus dungeon at a time?

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Its on a 2 hour window. It used to be tracked by reddit, though not anymore. It didn't tell you it's a bonus, you just have to know the differing tiers of light and infer from there.

I spammed stone vigil for my most recent one. 3ish min runs. Took me maybe 2 hours or so to finish

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Originally Posted by Gemina

To this day those designs are still some of the best they've ever released, and are reminiscent of a time SE didn't just give BiS away.

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Can agree with this. I'm working on both the ARR and HW relic in my own time and I'm quite happy with it. It's refreshing to have something that isn't just handed to you on a plate within a few days and where they actually aren't afraid to ask you to work a little for it. Sadly just a remnant of bygone days. Enix seem terrified to ask anything from their players at all this expansion, except rare obscure cases like "craft the same collectible for 500 hours for a mount" to try and shut the veteran crafters up.

Still several hundred times better than the Eureka grind, though!

(Yes, I would rather do one fun-at-first thing (say, run a dungeon) 500 times than do one was-never-fun thing (say, stand in one spot and hit damage sponge mobs) 50 times. Why?)

@MikkoAkure
So, why do the new relics require for me to have completed a raid? It's not a problem, i won't do them, just curious.

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Originally Posted by Tsaranoga

@MikkoAkure
So, why do the new relics require for me to have completed a raid? It's not a problem, i won't do them, just curious.

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Ivalice is not a real raid... We've already had an entire thread about how these are not the same thing. If you want to compare the difficulty of Ivalice or any of the 24-person content to actual savage difficulty raids, you are either a troll or you're deluded and you haven't run either content. Bringing that up also doesn't really make any sense when past relics ask you to go into 24-person "raids" to gather light as well. Both relics and Crystal Tower/Mhach/Ivalice/Nier are developed as "casual" content. If attempting to do one of those is too much for you, then you shouldn't be doing the other.

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Originally Posted by Tsaranoga

@MikkoAkure
So, why do the new relics require for me to have completed a raid? It's not a problem, i won't do them, just curious.

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"Raid" is a misnomer. XIV has 3 types of content with the word "raid" in them, but only one of them is proper "raiding" as in hardcore content. Alliance raids and Normal raids are both casual content, as in they can and should be completed during your first time running them without needing to read or watch a guide. There may be a few wipes, but if you run out of time in the instance, something is going horribly wrong.

Then there's Savage raiding which is proper hardcore raiding where you need to have fight knowledge and will no doubt wipe a lot, requiring possibly weeks of practice to clear. Aside from Binding Coil which was when Squeenix was still figuring things out, there is nothing besides BiS gear and mounts (and in one case a minion) locked behind savage, story content and other things are just in normal raids.

There is no reason to be afraid of alliance raids. You should go run crystal tower if you need proof of that, it's almost 100% face roll at this point (though ironically it used to have serious mechanics before overgearing made it a joke). It'll be a good way to ease into Alliance Raids if you are nervous about them, especially since it's becoming mandatory next patch.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

Still several hundred times better than the Eureka grind, though!

(Yes, I would rather do one fun-at-first thing (say, run a dungeon) 500 times than do one was-never-fun thing (say, stand in one spot and hit damage sponge mobs) 50 times. Why?)

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Yeah I'm still having a hard time trying to even motivate myself to go back into Eureka at all, even though there's a ton of stuff I want in there. It sounded unappealing from the beginning, but after an hour of taking an age and a half to kill anything alone and getting zero responses to trying to form the group you apparently needed to get anywhere, and then trying to follow a fate group, dying, and still being ignored... I left and never went back. :/

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Originally Posted by Tsaranoga

@MikkoAkure
So, why do the new relics require for me to have completed a raid? It's not a problem, i won't do them, just curious.

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You don't have to be a raider to clear an alliance raid. For most of them you barely even have to be awake. God knows some people sure aren't.

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You don't have to be a raider to clear an alliance raid. For most of them you barely even have to be awake. God knows some people sure aren't.

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Its why Ivalice is the worst of them.

You only need 4 awake people per alliance for the other sets, but Ivalice requires 6 (or 5 if one of them isnt a healer and you alternate rescues onto the STAND HERE PLEASE patch)

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Originally Posted by Tsaranoga

@MikkoAkure
So, why do the new relics require for me to have completed a raid? It's not a problem, i won't do them, just curious.

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1 very simple reason because a character from that story is in the level 80 relic story.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

The whole point of relic weapons are to have an avenue to get highest ilvl without being a raider. When it was relevant content, the parts of the quest released in chunks to make it more palatable, but you were still trading time and your sanity for not having to do some of the hardest content in the game. If relic were less of a slog, there would be less point for people to do savage.

If you’re complaining about this now, over half a decade after it stopped being relevant, that’s on you, not the game. No one is forcing you to do this.

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Even when it was released in its prime, as parts, it was horrible "content" due to how much dungeons/stuff you had to do to unlock some steps. I calculated back in the day that if you were to only do a reasonable amount of dungeons for one of the step each day, the next step would have been released before you completed the step for merely one weapon.

I made a zeta back in the day because I belevied SE would give special gameplay effects to the final step weapon, like how it used to be in FFXI or FFXIV V1, but never again will I do such a grind for merely a weapon with inflated ilvelvel that serves no purposes if you re not a raider.

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to begin it at all. This is just lousy, sloppy content of the first order.
If you think the ff14 one is bad, hate what you would say to the ff11 relic. At launch took 5 years to complete, unless you was rich.

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The difference with FFXI is that the insane grind in FFXI was well worth the effort. The relics were very powerful so the grind was justified. Additionally, they did remain current for years, not just 3 month at best (generally, it s less for relic weapons in FFXIV).

I kind of wish they'd bring back the old style of relic quest. Hear me out.

Relic quests in 2.X and 3.X were designed to help prop up the rest of the game's design by forcing max level players to engage in a variety of content that might otherwise die out. Fate grinding in unpopular zones for Atma, running a specific series of dungeons and trials, levequests, steps that required crafting and desynth, etc. It got players out in the world, engaging in the various game mechanics, and ensured that new players would always encounter content that was still being run by seasoned players.

Now we've got an enormous amount of content that exists, and no one touches any of it. There's a ton of dungeons and trials in the game, but roulette queue only ever dumps you in storyline required fights. And when was the last time you saw anyone touching fates after Heavensward? When was the last time you spent an hour in any of the zones in the game?

The zones keep getting larger, but the areas are underutilized and thus forgettable. Relic quests that get us engaged in the zone content would really make the game feel more alive. I'm helping a friend level her first Zodiac weapon right now, and I know each of the 2.X zones so intimately from farming relic weapons before. It's almost shocking how that changes between 2.X and 4.X.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

I kind of wish they'd bring back the old style of relic quest. Hear me out.

Relic quests in 2.X and 3.X were designed to help prop up the rest of the game's design by forcing max level players to engage in a variety of content that might otherwise die out. Fate grinding in unpopular zones for Atma, running a specific series of dungeons and trials, levequests, steps that required crafting and desynth, etc. It got players out in the world, engaging in the various game mechanics, and ensured that new players would always encounter content that was still being run by seasoned players.

Now we've got an enormous amount of content that exists, and no one touches any of it. There's a ton of dungeons and trials in the game, but roulette queue only ever dumps you in storyline required fights. And when was the last time you saw anyone touching fates after Heavensward? When was the last time you spent an hour in any of the zones in the game?

The zones keep getting larger, but the areas are underutilized and thus forgettable. Relic quests that get us engaged in the zone content would really make the game feel more alive. I'm helping a friend level her first Zodiac weapon right now, and I know each of the 2.X zones so intimately from farming relic weapons before. It's almost shocking how that changes between 2.X and 4.X.

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I really would like to see fate grinding return. Back in 2015 etc., it made the game world feel so alive - zones were always mobbed with groups running from fate to fate. And the camaraderie and competition that developed between different groups was nifty.

As you said, today's zones feel huge, empty, and desolate. I tend to believe flying was a mistake, too - it serves no real purpose, other than to oblige the designers to expand maps to accommodate the mounts, thus decreasing overall detail density in the process.

And for what? So we can fly when we're done with the stupid zone? I fly, maybe, once per day - 90% of my time is still spent in non-flying zones anyway.

I just hate light phases. Light phases have sucked and always will suck. Even worse when the game puts arbitrary limits on what can give light or not, depending on the level of content.

Everything else I find manageable.