Just feels like bad design

This is just stuff that bothers me as it feels like SE's intended way of doing things baffles me.

So;
-Miasma, learned at lv6 on Arcanist use for 24 levels become Scholar and forget it ever existed, so dumb down things the moment you become a healer something you should have already fully gotten used to long before being a Scholar. I might've been ok if this was added later to not overwhelm people on the initial switch from dps to healer but full removal just feels bad.
-Fester, while originally a Summoner skill is now an Arcanist skill at lv 18 to teach spending aetherflow stacks, so for 12 levels you learn to gain stacks and spend them, then you go Scholar forget everything about aetherflow stacks for 15 levels, like what?!, that just looks silly a player has learned about a core mechanic of the job already but you with old it for 15 levels, why?
-Bane, you literally get this just before being able to become a Scholar, why is not available, is spreading 1 DoT really that bad for Scholars to do come on SE.
-Diurnal Sect, why is this glorified button bloat for 4 levels, why isn't it tied with Aspected Benefic or Aspected Benefic tied to it, 4 levels of a do nothing stance looks stupid and sounds stupid.
-Undraw, with the current card system this is just button bloat for the sake of it, no one in their right mind would Undraw ever now, this may have had a niche pre Minor Arcana in Stormblood now though get rid of it it is functionally worthless or give it an extra effect.


The above just really really baffles me with their job design team and highlights to me that they did not put as much effort as they should have when designing the healers for Shadowbringers.

SCH issues: This is because they regret their decision to tie two jobs to one class, making it difficult to balance them as two distinct jobs. You should really just consider SCH an entirely seperate job that you simply unlock via the SMN questline. After all, you don't remember all your black magic spells when you switch to WHM, so why would you remember anything from SMN when you switch to SCH?

Diurnal Sect: I'm not sure what you mean. The sects are tied to Aspected Benefic/Helios. But there's another topic on this page discussion turning Diurnal into an 'always on' sect or a trait to reduce button bloat.
EDIT: Oh I see, it is odd that you get Diurnal sect 4 levels before anything that it interacts with. I'm guessing they shifted Aspected Benefic to 34 for some balancing reasons, but the level 30 job quest had already established sects so they couldn't simply shift that up with it.

Undraw: Yes everyone knows this. You can just leave it off your hotbars and forget about it.

Undraw was added in Stormblood, and it was added due to no longer having a way to just throw away a card you didn't want, when they tied cards to the, "card gauge."

Diurnal Sect used to add 5% haste to your casting, which it no longer does, and that is why it was introduced prior to allowing Astrologian to have Regen... a full level earlier than WHM gets it.

Nocturnal used to add +15% healing.

The SCH /SMN thing is SE trying to separate the classes from one another, because they deem it too powerful to be able to level two roles at once, and claim that it is hard to balance. Nevermind the fact that SCH was never out DPSing DPS, and has been weaker than WHM DPS wise for quite a long time now. The 15 level difference is because at first in SHB they made it so SCH couldn't use Aetherflow for DPS, meaning it was pointless to have until 45. Bane used to be available, but no longer.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Nevermind the fact that SCH was never out DPSing DPS, and has been weaker than WHM DPS wise for quite a long time now. The 15 level difference is because at first in SHB they made it so SCH couldn't use Aetherflow for DPS, meaning it was pointless to have until 45. Bane used to be available, but no longer.

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For shadowbringers yes. But during all of stormblood and heavensward, sch was the highest dps of the three healers on average. Astro was next when the 3.3 change to their cast time happend and then whm was the lowest til 4.5 when they got the buff to Assize in potency and lower recast time but it was still on par with astro dps.

Also the astro haste bonus was changed from that to 10 percent healing back in stormblood and noct sect when from 5 to 10 to 15 percent over heavensward and stayed at 15 in stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Diurnal Sect: I'm not sure what you mean. The sects are tied to Aspected Benefic/Helios. But there's another topic on this page discussion turning Diurnal into an 'always on' sect or a trait to reduce button bloat.
EDIT: Oh I see, it is odd that you get Diurnal sect 4 levels before anything that it interacts with. I'm guessing they shifted Aspected Benefic to 34 for some balancing reasons, but the level 30 job quest had already established sects so they couldn't simply shift that up with it.

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It's probably because back in HW and SB the Sects had additional buffs on them. In HW Diurnal increased your Attack Speed by 5% and Nocturnal increased your Healing Potency by 10%, while in SB they both increased Healing Potency and decreased Enmity.
They probably left it because you get Diurnal Sect from the level 30 Job-quest, and while I can't remember what happens in that quest, I'm sure Diurnal Sect is important to it.

SCH: smartest job in the game
Also SCH: Is the only job in the game to straight up forget spells from its previous job.

It's really dumb. I fell in love with SCH because it was the closest thing this game had to a true healer/dps hybrid. Now I have nothing of the sort, all of the healers are just "stand in your corner and spam 1 button until someone gets a booboo so you can kiss it away"

Nah, it's just devs and their lack of care for healers.

I have never heard of anybody anywhere use Undraw, or Undraw spread before the latter was removed

That aside yup, here's to more SE idiocy

The AST thing is baffling. I mean it took two expansions for them to get an AoE pre 50, so hopefully they fix the Sect issue in 6.0. It initially looked like they didn't want to shuffle skills around too much, but with how they did a mass shuffle in Shadowbringers hopefully that means they can make more sense of skills that once had a reason to be where they were, like Diurnal Sect, but now are just there for the Lulz.

The SCH situation makes some sense, since they were trying to "separate" the two jobs moreso, but it has it's own issues now. Dont get me wrong some of the changes were good/nice. SMN doesn't need Aetherflow like SCH does, merging it with Energy Drain and adding Energy Siphon was a good move. Along with moving Fester to a lower level. Since many people said level 50 SMN was just Arcanist with Fester. Well now ACN has Fester, lol. But at the same time removing Energy Drain from SCH was dumb. It would of been okay had you replaced it with another stack spender, but that was just bad planning.

The Egi Assaults were a good move too, as it finally made each summon viable for it's own purpose, instead of just pick the one you want. I will say though it is annoying on SCH that I dont have Whispering Dawn prior to level 20 unlike before. I have no AoE on SCH pre 20 now. I know low level healing is meh, but sometimes my party is just that... uh... "danger prone" lol

I feel they need to make more skills that appear similar for both jobs, but function towards each ones specialty, like Aetherpact and Summon Bahamut/Seraph. Plus some skills thematically suit the other job better than the one they are on. The poisons fit SCH better. And while Dissipation is "better" than what it was, it would make more sense for SMN.

Maybe I can organize a list yo keep myself busy. Got nothing but down time anyway, lol

Trying to explain to me that sch and smn being tied to arcanist was a mistake is falling on deaf ears because guess what, I know, I've been around since ARR and I was around when they made that statement, they learned by never doing it again and tried to uncouple them as much as possible.

But they flat out still haven't because they don't want to, else they would've done it with Shadowbringers, they have the capacity to change job unlock quests requirements, since you used to have to level Cnj to 15 for sch now just Arcanist to lv30 and finish questline, so would have no issues changing sch job unlock quest to just require any lv30 class to unlock and make said quest give a sch book as a reward on top.

They want Scholar tied to Arcanist just like they want Summoner tied to Arcanist and I am going to judge that design as such, there is no conceivable way that Scholars should have to wait 15 levels for aetherflow something they should know for 12 levels, if SE wants to push healing have aetherflow and Lustrate at lv30 thus for 15 levels only heals can be spent on aetherflow stacks (boring oh yes, but keep in theme with what they apparently are intending with healer design), it's not good to be teaching a player to manage 2 DoTs and then strip them of 1 after 24 levels of using it. With bane your not even giving Scholar a chance at using the skill which they just learned in the quest prior.

As for egi assults I treat wispering dawn/fey illumination as them though their levels learned are weird but something I can overlook.

Now onto Ast again ik what Sects used to do I mained Ast for quite sometime, so i'm questioning how much an afterthought healers seem to be for them to completely miss a useless stance for 4 levels, do bear in mind lv34 is not a job quest level it is just a ding level up! Level they easily by this point could've moved Aspected Benefic from lv34 to lv30 to prevent this, they haven't, so i'm calling it out as bad design because it is, and i don't think they care about balance pre lv80 let alone pre lv 50 content so Ast having regen 5 levels ahead of Whm ain't going to hurt like at all, it isn't an sch have to wait to lv30 for esuna and a dungeon really wants esuna used at lv32 or a Ast aoe being lv52 so no aoe in lv 50 content type of situation.

Seriously the Scholar stuff gets me more baffled due to it feels like as you put the sch stone around your neck/wrist/wherever Lily is behind you with demon eyes and a giant hammer ready to beat the tar outta you to make you forget your skills and afterwards your like thx Lily I needed that.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

But they flat out still haven't because they don't want to, else they would've done it with Shadowbringers, they have the capacity to change job unlock quests requirements, since you used to have to level Cnj to 15 for sch now just Arcanist to lv30 and finish questline, so would have no issues changing sch job unlock quest to just require any lv30 class to unlock and make said quest give a sch book as a reward on top.

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They have the capability to split them completely, but probably won’t because it usually comes down to spaghetti code that they’re forced to work with that causes all these weird decisions. Just as a hypothetical, possibly making Scholar its own job akin to every new recent job would mess something up with how Sch’s level is currently tied to Arcanist. Stuff like unlocked abilities and quest progress can impact that too. They probably couldn’t find a feasible way to let players keep their current Scholar levels while splitting the two up.

There’s a lot of variables with why they made these weird decisions, but honestly, what splitting the two up really boils down to is the possibility that you’ll have to level Sch up back from scratch just to play it again. Sure, I have other jobs levelled, but what of players who only have Scholar unlocked? I know I’d hate to suddenly log in one day and be unable to actually do current content on the job I play because it’s basically reset to level 30.

Indeed, when it comes to the devs, I tend to not doubt them at their word. For all of the issues we have with healers, I believe there is enough here to reasonably deduce potential reasons why things turned out this way without having the devs be liars trying to sabotage their own game.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Just feels like bad design.

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That which had no preview of confidence, glossed over in presentation, felled on deaf ears as inquiries began, confusing answering, unrealistic statements, no attempts to defend a creative visiion, hemming and hawing as they remove and then re-add skills, seemed made in five minutes by the fruit deliveryman who comes around every second tuesday (who's excellency in delivery is only eclipsed by his inability to make games) and finally a work of design by commitee that shows not a single shred of conviction behind it.

If it feels like bad design, smells like bad design, plays like bad design, then it definitly is bad game design.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Seriously the Scholar stuff gets me more baffled due to it feels like as you put the sch stone around your neck/wrist/wherever Lily is behind you with demon eyes and a giant hammer ready to beat the tar outta you to make you forget your skills and afterwards your like thx Lily I needed that.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

SCH issues: This is because they regret their decision to tie two jobs to one class, making it difficult to balance them as two distinct jobs. You should really just consider SCH an entirely seperate job that you simply unlock via the SMN questline. After all, you don't remember all your black magic spells when you switch to WHM, so why would you remember anything from SMN when you switch to SCH?

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The SMN and SCH myth has been busted: It was a grand idea to have two jobs share one class. This understandably took a lot of time to make skills and attribute points that would work on both, time they didnt have when making ARR. This relationship has really not been a problem since HW and when they got rid of the attribute points: SCH and SMN have both been getting 100% exclusive skills and Arcanist none over the years. The only thing left has been shared xp for arcanist.

Which haven't stopped SE fucking over SCH with a scorching diesel rod every single expansion as SMN changes took precedence and they flat out keep forgetting the skills read "ACN SMN SCH": The untraited Ruin upgrade; the loss of debuffs; Miasma 2; Shadowflare is a use-on-cooldown; Energy Drain; the pet changes. What the fuck does SE think I've been doing since HW? Pressing Broil? Then manually replacing it with Ruin and press that at <52?

Oddly enough, Ressurection STILL is ACN. Something my money is down on being they saw how much of bleeding effort it was to write the three letters "S", "C" and "H" back onto (old) Energy Drain. Because, let's not forget there exists two Energy Drains in this game with exact same icon and name but completely different description. Chrust, what a mess.

You know, I could take all the hand-waving, lore destroying and poorly-thought-up excuses, even re-leveling, for 5.0 SCH with one single thing: Had the end result been good. They wanted to finally put the money where their mouth is and divorce SCH and SMN? Fine. Any organism possessing more than one cell would have the common decency to then treat Scholar as it's own thing, take a drive down the Aisle of History, see how it has largely worked for over HALF A DECADE, maybe even see my comments in HW saying "I'm good for leveling other jobs thanks, SCH is just so much fun even if we get Sastasha" and then come up with some unique, but retains the busy, engaging and rewarding feeling of from early levels being a dot-, debuff-, Aetherflow- and pet-management job that attracted people to it in the first place.

And they did nothing of the sort.

Come 6.0, I will personally make and deliver a five-hundred feet trophy in pure platinum if they somehow manage to NOT butterfingers-delete Bio, Ruin 2, Summon Selene and Energy Drain (again) while dislodging an eyeball with a drinking straw and the screams of pain is heard as "I'm balancing healers!"

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

They have the capability to split them completely, but probably won’t because it usually comes down to spaghetti code that they’re forced to work with that causes all these weird decisions. Just as a hypothetical, possibly making Scholar its own job akin to every new recent job would mess something up with how Sch’s level is currently tied to Arcanist. Stuff like unlocked abilities and quest progress can impact that too. They probably couldn’t find a feasible way to let players keep their current Scholar levels while splitting the two up.

There’s a lot of variables with why they made these weird decisions, but honestly, what splitting the two up really boils down to is the possibility that you’ll have to level Sch up back from scratch just to play it again. Sure, I have other jobs levelled, but what of players who only have Scholar unlocked? I know I’d hate to suddenly log in one day and be unable to actually do current content on the job I play because it’s basically reset to level 30.

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That's probably the only reasonable reason why they still tied up together but they still could have done as I said and put Sch job unlock quest at needing any lv30 class rather than tying it exclusively to Arcanist, just they would have to put in makes Arcanist lv30 upon finish if <lv30 Arcanist clause. So long as Scholar is exclusively locked to needing Arcanist I will judge the design as such.

Yea the 2 different energy drain phiasco just makes me want to point to Summoner's Physick and go why is this still Garbo but that I think is more for the Dps section of the forums.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

That's probably the only reasonable reason why they still tied up together but they still could have done as I said and put Sch job unlock quest at needing any lv30 class rather than tying it exclusively to Arcanist, just they would have to put in makes Arcanist lv30 upon finish if <lv30 Arcanist clause.

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I think it’s moreso that it’s too late for them to do much about it now. Had they split them up, say, in Heavensward, the possible backlash wouldn’t be as bad. As the level cap is at 80 now, having to relevel a job would likely get on people’s nerves (especially if they already maxed it out). One solution would probably be having the unlock at a higher level like level 60, but then there’s only one healer left to play all the way to Heavensward which would be pretty bad. Also would feel kinda bad for players that had spent the time levelling current Scholar and they randomly decide to make you level from scratch again.

I can also foresee a possible issue with players who don’t have Summoner unlocked and no equippable Arcanist book in their inventory. The game would probably freak out now that there’s players running around with no weapon or an invalid weapon equipped. Lots of possible reasonings for what they do. But that Diurnal Sect and Aspected Benefic thing definitely doesn't make much sense other than being just a relic from an old design. Should definitely do something about that, lmao.

They should just erase classes and we should lv up jobs from lv1 imo. Classes are useless for 95% of the game so....what is the point to keep it.

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Originally Posted by Loki

They should just erase classes and we should lv up jobs from lv1 imo. Classes are useless for 95% of the game so....what is the point to keep it.

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The point in keeping it: Not having to rewrite the entire set of ARR job quests from scratch. That part of the game is already written, and, sure, they're pulling stuff out in 5.3 to make it easier to get past the 2.0 storyline, but they would have to cancel the entire 6.0 series if they were to erase classes from this game.

It would be easier to do something like that in FFXIV: Next Generation.

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Originally Posted by Loki

They should just erase classes and we should lv up jobs from lv1 imo. Classes are useless for 95% of the game so....what is the point to keep it.

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agreed, they are just very useless, plus it takes away other FF jobs like Ranger and Thief, there is no point in classes. when you start up FFXI, you can choose a job right from the start.

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Originally Posted by Loki

They should just erase classes and we should lv up jobs from lv1 imo. Classes are useless for 95% of the game so....what is the point to keep it.

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I like classes as stepping stones, the idea that you have a base where the core of what you'll be doing comes from so you get that into your fingers as Guildmasters directly references your skills and techniques and when you equip the job stone you start getting additional enchancements and mechanics to think about.

But that would require SE to not try and ignore Classes into non-existence. With how they streamline with reckless abandon I'm surprised they haven't gone away with levels at all. You already get to max level with each expansion's MSQ and leveling up other jobs goes by so fast and is so mind-numbing when they store all the interesting skills at the last leg of the leveling process. Or nowhere at all on SCH.

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Originally Posted by Loki

They should just erase classes and we should lv up jobs from lv1 imo. Classes are useless for 95% of the game so....what is the point to keep it.

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FFXIV 1.0 was designed with classes only. Jobs were a later addition to the game (after Yoshi-P took over if I recall) because there were no classic/iconic FF jobs in the game. To keep everything in line with the original they decided to code in class->job progression for ARR rather than get rid of classes completely (because they are part of the original FFXIV lore).

Besides lore value, technically they can just get rid of the classes, but, depending on the coding (which was likely a lot of spaghetti code considering the time frame ARR was built) would prove it to be more difficult than it seems at a surface level.

Even converting the classes into jobs at a code level would likely cause issues elsewhere in the game code they would need to find and debug. There's a little coding song that goes "99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs in the code, take one down, patch it around, 172 bugs in the code"

Whether you like the way SCH or SMN are now or not, the way ARN transitions into them is bad design. Go show someone new the game and have them play ARN, learn the class, and then have to completely relearn either of its jobs.

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Originally Posted by StrumerJohn

Whether you like the way SCH or SMN are now or not, the way ARN transitions into them is bad design. Go show someone new the game and have them play ARN, learn the class, and then have to completely relearn either of its jobs.

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So you mean like whenever you change to any expansion job? Learning a job from scratch at level 30 isn't unique to SCH just because it has a base class that plays differently. Note that I'm not defending the 2 job for 1 class model here, just pointing out that this argument against it is quite flimsy.

Also, ACN = SMN. There's no relearning anything with that class to job transition.

I'll never understand why SMN got to keep Physic, which is 100% useless on them, but SCH can't keep Miasma or bane, or any other ACN skill that would have been completely useful for them. "SMN needs to keep everything from ACN" Then so should SCH, they're both stemming from the class. It's not fair to pick favorites.

Or even better, they got to keep Titan, who was incredibly situational and overall very niche. But they got rid of Selene on SCH, because it was incredibly situational and niche.... Nice favoritism. SMN is worth putting work into and SCH isn't. Absolutely ridiculous if you ask me.

The Scholar transition from Arcanist is bad design and is wholly unique to Scholar as it is the only job to suffer this.

I'll use Whm and Ast to prove why the design of this transition as it currently stands is so awful.

Whm stems from Cnj nothing you learn as Cnj is lost upon transitioning, no minor skill like a 2nd DoT you had for 24 levels and definitely no major mechanic of the job lost (imagine if had lillies on Cnj but when you switched to Whm you lost them for 15 levels). Cnj's transition flows freely into Whm.

Ast requires to be able to go into the Pillars section of Ishgard, you can be any job so long as you meet this requirement, thus its design intention is wholly seperate from every other job/class.

Sch transition is trying to be both and this is why it is such bad design, you have to pick one, it cannot be wholly seperate if you have to level Arcanist to lv30 and complete its questline, it cannot be connected because it wants to spread its skills in its own way yet these skills are major mechanics of the job that was already learned by the Arcanist, and SE didn't pick one so I'm pointing out how badly the design of it looks.


Arbitrarily locking the major mechanic of aetherflow for 15 levels is bad design, Arcanist learned it at lv 18 a person playing Scholar learned how to use aetherflow for 12 levels they are just gated for whatever reason SE can come up with from their poop shoot for 15 unnecessary levels.

Sch and to a lesser extent Ast are the Prime examples i'd show the developers they need to really look at what skills they are placing and where and that maybe just maybe that drawing board needs a second look at.

I don't think SCH getting its DPS guts ripped out had anything to do with it being one of two jobs to branch from the ACN class. But I do think it's a big part of the reason for the OPs gripes. What I do know is that after they eliminated the attribute point allocation and pre-SB Cleric Stance, the problems that existed with them being tied together were pretty much gone. Both jobs were fine at that point, and all they had to do to obtain this "separation" is through the skills they gain through their Aetherflow, and respective job gauges; with SCH's being more support focused, and SMN being more DPS focused.

Still, it probably would have been better if they each had their own class from the get go. It doesn't even seem like it was something they wanted to do at all. It seems more like a decision made based on time constraints, effectively giving SCH the short end of the stick from nearly the time of its inception. That's not official btw, just makes a hell lot of sense.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

SCH: smartest job in the game
Also SCH: Is the only job in the game to straight up forget spells from its previous job.

It's really dumb. I fell in love with SCH because it was the closest thing this game had to a true healer/dps hybrid. Now I have nothing of the sort, all of the healers are just "stand in your corner and spam 1 button until someone gets a booboo so you can kiss it away"

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And honestly, feeling like a healer/DPS hybrid is probably the best way they can do the job justice versus it in previous FF titles. Although /all/ healers technically DPS, but I see what you mean because it felt like it had a DPS rotation to it.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

SCH issues: This is because they regret their decision to tie two jobs to one class, making it difficult to balance them as two distinct jobs. You should really just consider SCH an entirely seperate job that you simply unlock via the SMN questline. After all, you don't remember all your black magic spells when you switch to WHM, so why would you remember anything from SMN when you switch to SCH?

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But I don't think it was a bad decision to have two jobs in one class. I see they're trying to separate them further to avoid many crossover abilities between them, however, it was fine TBH. Though what bugs me with it is that SMN is getting to keep its DoT aspect whilst it is taken away from SCH. The DoT mage aspect really suited SCH and not only that, but I think suited SCH better thematically than SMN, at least SCH has a history of DoT management (with FFXI's SCH, it was in helix spells and the abilities to enhance them) and this was a good throwback. Not only that, but there is a certain plague/disease element to SCH in XIV, obviously with leeches being a former spell, the Nymian plague in the SCH storyline, whereas SMN doesn't reference disease if I recall, rather it is inherited from Arcanist. I guess if they wanted to create any kinda of thematic and balance differences between SCH and SMN's versions, give SMN upgrades on their DoT's (might be cool to exploit a couple of Primal abilities in their upgrades) when they diverge, which we know they can do, because Biolysis is a SCH upgrade of Bio and SCH's Ruin upgrade is Broil whilst SMN gets another Ruin tier. It means they can keep SCH's versions weaker.

And even then, they've been moving away from a DoT focus on SMN anyway. Even then, why can't SMN and SCH remain counter parts to each other? After all they are separate roles.

I definitely agree. SMN uses Energy Drain in a completely different way than ACN and it's jarring. SCH loses Aetherflow and Energy Drain altogether in the transition. It's just a really weird jump into either job. You're definitely right that no one else gets a job stone and suddenly has to relearn what their abilities do up to that point or wonder where they went. The Jobs typically build on the base Class in a way that's intuitive and natural but ACN just breaks all the rules of convention.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

The AST thing is baffling. I mean it took two expansions for them to get an AoE pre 50, so hopefully they fix the Sect issue in 6.0. It initially looked like they didn't want to shuffle skills around too much, but with how they did a mass shuffle in Shadowbringers hopefully that means they can make more sense of skills that once had a reason to be where they were, like Diurnal Sect, but now are just there for the Lulz.

The SCH situation makes some sense, since they were trying to "separate" the two jobs moreso, but it has it's own issues now. Dont get me wrong some of the changes were good/nice. SMN doesn't need Aetherflow like SCH does, merging it with Energy Drain and adding Energy Siphon was a good move. Along with moving Fester to a lower level. Since many people said level 50 SMN was just Arcanist with Fester. Well now ACN has Fester, lol. But at the same time removing Energy Drain from SCH was dumb. It would of been okay had you replaced it with another stack spender, but that was just bad planning.

The Egi Assaults were a good move too, as it finally made each summon viable for it's own purpose, instead of just pick the one you want. I will say though it is annoying on SCH that I dont have Whispering Dawn prior to level 20 unlike before. I have no AoE on SCH pre 20 now. I know low level healing is meh, but sometimes my party is just that... uh... "danger prone" lol

I feel they need to make more skills that appear similar for both jobs, but function towards each ones specialty, like Aetherpact and Summon Bahamut/Seraph. Plus some skills thematically suit the other job better than the one they are on. The poisons fit SCH better. And while Dissipation is "better" than what it was, it would make more sense for SMN.

Maybe I can organize a list yo keep myself busy. Got nothing but down time anyway, lol

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Yes smn does need aetherflow, no it was a terrible move to merge energy drain with aetherflow.

I feel like i need to say some stuff. Cause sch thinks smn has favouritism over them. First of all we re both screwed this expansion, what i wrote to the comment above, smn needs aetherflow now that is removed for this stupid energy drain everything is uncordinated and clunky and for the most part work against each other. Who knew that a building drops if you break its foundation.

Something that triggered me was the acn breaks every conventional logic. Am i the only one Who has looked outside the window? Do people never heard of godamn specialists? Do you think that a diagnostician, a disease researcher and a surgeon not go through the same med school first before branching out?

Having the Jobs branch out from 1 class was the best thing they could have done imo. Its unique, its interesting and it allows for a better history behind it. What other class is involved with the ascians, the allagans, the spawns, the primals and the nyms. As for why smn kept miasma something that sch should also get along with all the other abilities the dumb heal overhaul removed that went with if dps is too boring People Will definetely heal more is cause while bio does afflictions miasma Just blocks the enemys aether.

Yes i did have to search Hard for that piece of info. The biggest problems with the Jobs isnt that they try to remove them from each other, its that people are giving affirmation to it. Its 2020 and there are still People asking to seperate the 2 Jobs.

Also another problem is and here i am going towards the summoner side, Peoples blind nostalgia, complete apathy for learning stuff, and mind boggling demand not only for nerfs on anything remotely Hard but also removals of anything niche or situational as well as anything that is easy game play with the logic this one Ball is easy to juggle that means juggling 2 balls is as Hard as 3, for example the aggro management and worst of all asking over and over to get the rewards for completing challenging stuff or goodness forbid some Light grind for free.

I keep saying this even though this is something i wont ever notice in game. Ff14 isnt league of legends kind of toxic but it is toxic its like my kid brother Who is moms favourite asks her to play the game i play only for it to delete my save that i had 100% and it only needed to redo the final boss to get the secret ending.