This was originally going to be a Necromancer but the more I got into the lore the less it made sense, and while Void Mages don't exist in previous FF games they are mentioned (vaguely) in FFXIV by Cait Sith in the Void Ark story and they still scratch the itch for a dark and edgy caster. So I stole some stuff from Necromancers to help flesh out this job.
Google Sheets link: FFXIV Void Mage Concept
Here's the gist:
Void Mage [VDM]
Tracing the annals of history, void magic has been rooted in at least two of the Umbral Calamities, and so perhaps it is for the best that it has been long forgotten following the deaths of the final practitioners of this dark art. Were the boundless dark energies of the Void ever to be drawn upon again, surely it would only result in yet another disaster.
But as it would happen the disaster came before the Void; following the events on The First there have been attempts to reach out to Hydaelyn's other shards - most of which resulted in failure - however one such attempt unintentionally made contact with the Thirteenth shard. The following wave of darkness and Voidsent ravaged the Source for years. It also gave rise to a new breed of Void Mages, utilizing the same destructive forces that now threatened them. Many believe no good will ever come of these dark magics, and they may be right, but the Void encompasses all. No one can escape the Void, it is only a matter of how much one will succumb.
Starting Level: 30
Specialty: Damage over Time
Weapon: Dagger and Chain
- Starting at 30 gives sufficient time to go through the job's progress route, explaining how each ability is acquired since it is a "new" and very much frowned upon sort of magic. Your trainers are by no means masters.
- VDM will spend most of its time managing, refreshing, and interacting with its dots. It also features temporary summons (essentially dots with skins) which mostly do their own thing.
- The dagger and chain are separate but at times are magically combined for short-range attacks. The dagger symbolizes sacrifice while the chain symbolizes binding (Voidsent) while also being bound to your own dire fate through your use of void magic.
Quick Rundown: Apply dots which help generate a resource, use said resource to summon various (uncontrollable) Voidsent, sacrifice said Voidsent to generate a second resource, and finally use that second resource to turn into a Voidsent yourself - the duration of which can be manipulated by sacrificing more summons at the right time. Mix in some channels, a filler that makes your dots tick, a couple short range abilities to emphasize the inherent danger of the job and you have a VDM.
There isn't much information about void magic in FFXIV but the general idea is that you, as a Void Mage, draw upon the aether of the 13th shard which has been flooded with darkness and all its denizens transformed into Voidsent - a source of power that is not without its consequences.
Job Gauge
- Up to 5 Black Auracite crystals for summoning Voidsent.
- A bar representing Corruption obtained from sacrificing Voidsent with a max of 100, used to temporarily turn into a Voidsent yourself.
- A small timer for each current summoned Voidsent, to better time their sacrifice.
What follows is a list of abilities ordered by type and a short summary of the job's quest line:
Abilities
General
- Degenerate - 2.5s cast
Damage the target.
Additional Effect: Advances each of your damage-over-time effects on the target once.
Primary filler
- Black Mark - 1.5s cast
Low damage to target.
Additional Effect: Your summons attack the target.
Low potency situational filler
- Evil Mist - 9s channel
10y radius around caster
Damage nearby enemies every 1.5s.
Primary aoe, have to be in close range
- Paroxysm - 1.5s cast
30y radius around caster
Damage every enemy in range that's affected by Torment or Agony. Can be used while channeling Evil Mist as an instant cast.
Spread cleave, long range aoe option, and something to do while channeling
- Deep Freeze - 6s channel | 60s cd
Damage enemies in a cone, 10y range.
Additional Effect: Apply Chilled to the Bone for 30s. Maximum Stacks: 3. Activates the Fracture ability.
The debuff lasts 30s (to interact with Fracture), the status that comes with it lasts 6s.
- Fracture - 1s OGCD cast
Consume 1 stack of Chilled to the Bone to deal damage.
Additional Effect: 2s Stun
Additional Effect: Advance Meltdown twice (6s).
Meant for burst with Meltdown and some utilityTraits
- Drain Touch - Instant | 15s cd
Drain HP from the target. Increased damage when far from the target, increased healing when close to it.
- Chilled to the Bone - Apply a status effect based on the number of stacks for 6s:
1 Stack: Heavy
2 Stacks: Bind
3 Stacks: Stun
- Degenerate only deals damage at first and gains the ability to force dot ticks later (after the dots gain their additional effects).
Damage over Time
- Torment - 1.5s cast
30s duration dot on target.
- Agony - 1s OGCD cast
24s duration dot on target.
- Meltdown - Instant | 30s cd
21s duration dot on target.
Traits
- Torment has a chance to grant you a charge of Dark Flare.
- Agony has a chance to upgrade your next summon.
Summon Spells
Auracite Generators
- Dark Flare - 1.5s cast | 10s cd, up to 3 charges
Additional Effect: +1 Black Auracite
- Osmose - 2.5s channel | 120s cd
Additional Effect: +1 Black Auracite every 0.5s (5 total).
Traits
- Black Auracite is initially capped at 3. The cap increases to 4 and 5 at later levels.
- Dark Flare starts out with 1 charge, the 2nd and 3rd come at later levels.
- The duration and max Auracite generated by Osmose changes based on your Auracite cap.
Basic Summons
- Oath 1 - 2.5s cast | -2 Auracite
Summon a Deepeye to attack the target for 21s.
- Oath 2 - 2.5s cast | -2 Auracite
Summon a Cubus to attack the target and nearby enemies for 21s.
- Oath 3 - 2.5s cast | -2 Auracite
Summon a Mindflayer to attack the target, applying a stacking dot for 21s. Each stack of the dot lasts 6s. Overwrites the Piscodemon's dot.
Upgraded Summons
- Oath 4 - 2.5s cast | -3 Auracite
Summon an Ahriman to attack the target for 21s.
- Oath 5 - 2.5s cast | -3 Auracite
Summon a Hecteyes attack the target and nearby enemies for 21s.
- Oath 6 - 2.5s cast | -3 Auracite
Summon a Piscodemon to apply a stacking dot to the target for 21s. Each stack of the dot lasts 6s. Overwrites the Mindflayer's dot.
Corruption
Corruption Generators
- Hecatomb - Instant OGCD
Sacrifice your oldest summon to gain +10 Corruption per Auracite spent on it with an additional effect depending on the sacrificed summon:
1 or 4: High damage to target
2 or 5: High damage to target and nearby enemies
3 or 6: Extra +10 Corruption
- Oblation - Instant OGCD
Sacrifice your oldest summon to gain a shield and +10 Corruption per Auracite spent on it.
Corruption Spenders
- One with the Void - Instant OGCD | 120s cd
Take on a Corrupted form, consuming -10 Corruption every 1s, granting the Harbinger/Doomsday ability and altering the following abilities:
Torment: 2s cast, deals 5 ticks instantly (no dot applied)
Agony: 2s ogcd cast, deals 4 ticks instantly (no dot applied)
Dark Flare: Becomes instant
All Oath spells: Become instant and ogcd
- Harbinger - Instant OGCD | 90s cd
Begin the 15s countdown to Doomsday. Becomes Doomsday.
- Doomsday - Instant OGCD
Deal damage to all enemies in range based on the amount of Corruption lost during Harbinger, with less damage the farther enemies are from the caster.
- Curasa - Instant | -10 Corruption
Potent self heal.
- Transfigure - Instant OGCD | -15 Corruption
Upgrade your next summon.
Utility
- Dark Haze - Instant OGCD | 90s cd
Blind the target for 10s, reducing their chance to hit with physical attacks.
- Veil - Instant OGCD | 90s cd
Renders you impervious to telegraphed attacks for 5s. Can use while channeling.
- Chaos Drive - Instant | 30s cd
Rush to a target that's affected by Torment or Agony and deal damage for each. Unable to cast if bound.
- Phylactery - 2.5s cast | 600s cd
Resurrect self upon death at 50% HP and MP.
Not in a weakened state.
Quest Line
Just a quick preview to get a feel for what the job's about:
- New Expansion - As the expansion starts a rift is forced open to the 13th Shard, unleashing a wave of Darkness and Voidsent upon the Source. Much anguish, such terror.
Early on in the MSQ you learn that due to the rift a once-extinct form of magic has returned: Void Magic. Which of course can be nothing but trouble, so you pick up a quest where you learn of increased Void Mage activity threatening the good folks of Eorzea and are sent to obliterate them. You do so, multiple times, weakening the Void Mages each time until they are a complete joke.
- Job Unlock - Once you have beaten the enemy Void Mages into total utter submission you are sent to exterminate them once and for all, but rather than fight back they instead beg for their lives, offering to teach you their dark arts.
- Lvl 30 - The few Void Mages that remain are young, bright-eyed and hopeful but woefully inexperienced. Lured to this particular brand of magic for various reasons they have yet to be corrupted; they really have the best intentions and have absolutely no idea what they're getting themselves into. They know a little about how Black Auracite works and can summon a couple weak Voidsent, and this is what they teach you.
You quickly learn it's for the best that your summoned Voidsent don't stick around for long, one of your new Void Mage friends tried to keep them out for longer and ended up losing control. That bloody mess over there is all that's left of him. Her? Can't tell anymore. [Learn: Oath 1]
- Lvl 40 - It seems the Void Mages are culling themselves almost as fast as you did as another of them exploded in an attempt to unsummon a Voidsent they lost control over. As it turns out, this explosion can in fact be used against individuals other than yourself! [Learn: Hecatomb]
- Lvl 50 - It's slow learning (you did kill the most experienced Void Mages after all) but after much practice you (and your trainers) are able to handle additional Auracite and summon stronger Voidsent. Horray! [Auracite cap increased to 4. Learn: Oath 4]
- Lvl 60 - Some of your fellow Void Mages are acting strangely... it's almost like the Darkness is corrupting them. Well I mean of course it is, that's what it does. Efforts are being made to combat this corruption but so far the only method devised involves feeding that corruption into more powerful Voidsent, which in turn corrupts the user more. [Obtain: Corruption resource. Learn: Transfigure]
- Lvl 63 - In a somewhat desperate attempt to stem this tide of corruption, some Void Mages have taken a more defensive approach (likely as a result of their more powerful Voidsent turning on them). [Learn: Curasa]
- Lvl 69 - N I C E. [Learn: Nothing]
- Lvl 70 - You and your fellow mages are getting quite good at summoning Voidsent. For better or worse. [Auracite cap increased to 5.]
- Lvl 73 - You return to your few remaining mages to learn something new and - oh... your trainer just turned into a Voidsent and attacked you. Well that's no good. It seems the corruption was too strong, despite all efforts to reduce it. Is this the fate of all Void Mages?
- Lvl 76 - It appears so, because another one has turned. This one you manage to contain for study. Hopefully the one remaining Void Mage other than yourself has an idea.
- Lvl 80 - Returning to your final VDM ally it turns out they may indeed have a solution! All you have to do is -
...
Ah, they turned too. At least they were considerate enough to leave notes. After dispatching them you learn what you can but you too begin to feel the corruption overtaking you. You however are no ordinary mage - blessed with Light you have the unique ability to combat the Darkness growing within. You still need an outlet for it though, which is what your friend was up to before they turned, and in order to do that you must allow it to overtake you - albeit in a more controlled manner. [Learn: One with the Void]
After all that, it looks like you're the last remaining Void Mage... until another small group comes to you looking for insight. It seems there was another branch having similar troubles and they wish to learn with you. All's well that ends well.
Void Mage - New Job Idea
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06-04-2020, 01:34 PMTulzschaNew Job Idea: Void Mage
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06-07-2020, 05:49 AMVidera
There's one little snag in this lore-wise where there is no power to be drawn from the void. It's emptiness. There's nothing there but slavering creatures that want to eat you. Can't really draw upon aether that isn't there.
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06-07-2020, 06:59 AMGula
[sobs in lore]
The void could likely be restored at some point given its prominence to the current storyline. Most dot abilities were removed I believe at Shadowbringers launch so I doubt there will be much development into basing a job around it. -
06-07-2020, 08:14 AMKabooaEasiest retcon ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Videra
The opposite of stillness is activity. The aether just moves as such a high frequency that we can't detect it with devices or normal senses. -
06-07-2020, 08:25 AMVideraThe problem with that is that it undoes the reason for voidsent acting the way they do. Voidsent are violent creatures that feast on the aether of others or cannibalize their own because there's no aether. So. Take that as you will. You could retcon that, but it would cause a domino effect of inconsistencies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabooa
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06-07-2020, 09:48 AMMimilu
This is a very detailed job idea. :D
I have to reread this a little more to process it more but here are my thoughts/questions after my first read-through:
-I have a few questions with Degenerate and the DoTs.
1). Does it apply the damage the DoT ticks would have done or does it just skip them?
2) Does Torment and Agony get their procs at the end of their DoTs or from each tick?
3). Does Degenerate effect Meltdown too?
-This job looks like it focuses on just DPSing with no raid buffs/utility like BLM and SAM, so having utility for self survival is a given but Veil and Phylactery seem too powerful together. DRK and GNB would kill for invulns that were so user-and-healer friendly. I think if Veil was just a basic barrier ability, Phylactery could stay as is with a few tweaks (like having a small effect-time window). If you want a little more survivability, you could make One with the Void also decrease damage taken by maybe 5-10%. I think it would fit it, thematically.
-Are the upgraded Oath spells traits or additional spells? If they're additional spells, just to clean up the number of buttons the job has, you could instead have Oaths I-III upgrade via an ability that cost an additional Auracite. -
06-07-2020, 09:48 AMKabooaBecause there's no aether in a form they can consume.Quote:
Originally Posted by Videra
Ez. -
06-07-2020, 01:31 PMTulzscha1. Degenerate deals a little damage on its own and also makes the dots ticks which does deal their damage too (which gives more chances for their traits to trigger).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimilu
2. Each tick by a small chance. I'm not sure what the exact % should be, probably somewhere around 5-10% considering multi-dotting, Degenerate, and One with the Void. My gut says 8% with maybe an increased chance each time it fails like Aff Lock's Agony in WoW because that low of a % is kind of necessary to prevent it from going absolutely nuts but rng can be a filthy mistress at times, I'd really want to play test it to get a better feel for what it should be (but that's not gonna happen so meh).
3. Yep. Not really an overall dps gain there considering Meltdown's cd but with so much reliance on damage over time anything to allow for some additional burst when it's needed helps.
It's very selfish, yes. Veil is primarily protection while channeling because that locks you in place while melee can move freely, it's really only going to protect you from one attack every 1.5 minutes, and only certain attacks at that. A high % dmg reduction or fixed potency shield would also be fine though if invulnerability is too strong, the idea is just that the job demands you get into dangerous territory and stay there at times (it could probably use more of that but don't want to get too similar to RDM) so it's nice to have something to help with that. Phylactery is a very long cd, might be too strong regardless but it's neat and these two abilities allow the job to be extra selfish in a way BLM wishes it could be which I think is interesting. Hm if Phylactery had a small effect time window it'd probably have to be instant but that's pretty similar to DRK's Living Dead.
When this job was a Necromancer One with the Void was Lich Form and it'd make you undead and unable to receive heals from other players but it had more self healing to go with it and the Corruption resource was like a 2nd hp bar so there was more of a survival aspect tied in but it was um... very very messy. I'm think this design could be better too tbh. Damage reduction though... I could see if it also reduced the range of the spells it changes or maybe harmed itself somehow (half hp?), otherwise it seems a little too arbitrary to me, but that could be a neat addition. Would it have too much going on in one spell then? Arguably it already does but it is the pinnacle of the rotation so it should be awesome. Maybe if that part is added on via a trait it'd be fine.
The Upgraded Oaths replace the normal ones, like how Ruin 4 replaces Ruin 2 for SMN. Transfigure upgrades them for Corruption which is intended as a Corruption dump when One with the Void is on cd, or to get the extra powerful dot from Oath 6, or for extra burst situationally. So yep only 3 buttons for Oath total, not 6.
I was under the impression it was Dark aether because the Void Mages from Mhach must have used something, I may be mistaken and all they ever did was use Voidsent. Is Dark aether even a thing in FFXIV? Or are there only Dark versions of the 6 elements? Because it could just do that, combining aether from itself in combination with the environment to make something new. Or hrm... would it be feasible to say they take aether from actual Voidsent? Because they were being used essentially like batteries on the Void Ark.Quote:
Originally Posted by Videra
I mean I can see why they wouldn't, dot classes are inherently flawed in MMOs and there are technical limitations as well, but I love 'em and I made this for fun so :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Gula
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06-07-2020, 03:57 PMMirronTulaxia
I'm not sure why people are treating lore as if it would be an issue. "Something something, lost lore of Allag (because it's always Allag), they figured out how to make a pact with a Voidsent or something and now you too can use their magic". I mean, you can make up a thousand variations on the idea of "something lost to the ages now is discovered which changes our views on everything". They even did that in Shadowbringers with Astral/Umbral being Dark/Light instead of the opposite.
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06-08-2020, 03:09 AMGulaThis isn't WoW, story elements and gameplay actually have to make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia
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06-08-2020, 04:09 AMMimilu
I mean, lore is important and all that but what are people's thoughts on the job's design? :B
I can't speak for the OP or other people but when I post a job idea, I would rather have people say something about the gameplay and not the lore or image of the job. Mechanics, potency, cooldown and effect lengths, etc.
It kind of just feels like people couldn't be bothered to read the post and just needed to post something. :B
IF you need a suggestion for a lore-fix, how about if the Void Mage's Soul Crystal holds/traps a powerful voidsent the user draws power from instead of just the void? This way, none of the job's skills would have to change and it would explain why the user can summon voidsent so easily, because your voidsent is of a lower hierarchy (voidsent being stronger the lower on the hierarchy they are), summoning weaker/higher-hierarchy voidsent. -
06-08-2020, 06:11 AMKabooaGetting pretty heavy WoWlock vibes from it. The class never appealed to me, but looking at it there's a few issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimilu
Concerns
Everything's a GCD, and everything is in some way connected to each other / one of the resource systems. Some people like that, but I'm seeing 2 action bars of actions, 9 of which have some sort of finite duration you have to keep mind of, others having charges to keep mind of, dual juggling resources, etc. This isn't so much a criticism as it is an observation. This job is going to need its own HUD slot otherwise it's all eyes on Bars.
Pets look like glorified DoTs, but Pet (and Mob) AI in general brings with it a host of issues that greatly diminish effectiveness. That is not really a criticism of the job, though.
Without Potency numbers it's difficult to judge the priority system we're looking at, but I'm going to guess it's DoT > Generate Resource > Pets > Corruption > Filler, though I struggle to see any case where you're going to use that Filler that much.
Keep in mind the longest dot is 30s, or 12 GCDs. Just setting up your DoTs is 2 GCDs. Getting your pet out is a GCD. using your 10s Dark Flare to gain Auracite is a GCD. Your fillers reduce the timer by 1 GCD, if you ever get to use it around the Channels.
Another thing - Channels in this game are horrid. They feel horrid. They're more antithetical to Encounter Design than the heavensward Black Mage.
That said there's plenty going for it. Ability interactions are ace, and the DoTs don't feel like the kind of thing that are going to get removed precisely because the other actions are there to build off of them.
There's something to be said for the aesthetic of being a minion overlord, which with Summoner's direction is something we'll never see with them. -
06-08-2020, 10:41 AMTulzschaRofl so savage, I love it. Yeah I'd like it to make sense and I'll admit I'm no lore master.Quote:
This isn't WoW, story elements and gameplay actually have to make sense.
Great idea! (^.^)bQuote:
IF you need a suggestion for a lore-fix, how about if the Void Mage's Soul Crystal holds/traps a powerful voidsent the user draws power from instead of just the void?
Yuup I was a Lock main for many years (primarily Affliction ofc), definitely took some inspiration from that as well as Shadow Priest.Quote:
Getting pretty heavy WoWlock vibes from it.
Not sure what you mean by everything's a GCD, there are 9 OGCDs and a similar # of actions to SMN, fewer instants and ogcds but shorter cast times. There is a good amount going on yup, dot specs are all about managing timers and they tend to get incredibly boring when nothing needs refreshing because that's all they do. I don't think it's too busy especially with the Oath costs as high as they are (used to be 1 and 2 Auracite instead of 2 and 3), in practice and esp with mechanics it could be. Hm. Making the Oath spells a shorter cast time or even instant could help, as well as increasing the cd and perhaps the effect of Dark Flare (get 2 Auracite every 20s with 2 charges?).Quote:
Everything's a GCD, and everything is in some way connected to each other / one of the resource systems. Some people like that, but I'm seeing 2 action bars of actions, 9 of which have some sort of finite duration you have to keep mind of, others having charges to keep mind of, dual juggling resources, etc. This isn't so much a criticism as it is an observation. This job is going to need its own HUD slot otherwise it's all eyes on Bars.
They are exactly that, and being glorified dots reduces the potential AI issues to a minimum. They're mindless monstrosities after all, just sic 'em on something and blow 'em up when they're about done.Quote:
Pets look like glorified DoTs, but Pet (and Mob) AI in general brings with it a host of issues that greatly diminish effectiveness.
You're right that is the intention, though keeping resources from capping should probably be more important than dots. Another point which makes me think Oath spells should maybe be easier to use. Filler is filler, it's the least fun part of a job, that's why Degenerate forces dot ticks so you're doing more of what the job is meant to do. There is something to be said for having some relaxing downtime but at least my intention for this job is for it to feel somewhat slow and plodding (without restricting movement too too much) but relentless with its constant barrage of dots both glorified and not.Quote:
Without Potency numbers it's difficult to judge the priority system we're looking at, but I'm going to guess it's DoT > Generate Resource > Pets > Corruption > Filler, though I struggle to see any case where you're going to use that Filler that much.
It is 1 GCD to set up dots (1.5s cast + 1s ogcd) - very important - plus Meltdown which is instant and on a 30s cd so even with Degenerate and Fracture advancing it you won't cast it more than that. Dark Flare is also a short cast which can be used to weave 1 OGCD (like AST). It's another of those things I'd really like to play with and see how it feels to see if it needs tweaking though. Again making pets easier to summon and changing Dark Flare to a 20s cd would help if it's too busy.Quote:
Keep in mind the longest dot is 30s, or 12 GCDs. Just setting up your DoTs is 2 GCDs. Getting your pet out is a GCD. using your 10s Dark Flare to gain Auracite is a GCD. Your fillers reduce the timer by 1 GCD, if you ever get to use it around the Channels.
I don't know if any job in this game has cast time ogcds but I thought it'd be neat to try out and they'd help with the overall feel of the job.
Hehe. I thought on this quite a bit because you're absolutely right, they do feel horrid, so here are my thoughts on them with this job:Quote:
Another thing - Channels in this game are horrid. They feel horrid. They're more antithetical to Encounter Design than the heavensward Black Mage.
- They're different from what other jobs have and give a feeling of being rooted which I do want for this job to an extent
- If the time between ticks is shorter than 2.5s they are more efficient than normal 2.5s casts, less punishing to cancel
- There are 3 total channels: One lasts for 1 gcd on a 2 min cd, one lasts 6s on a 1 min cd, and one is for aoe only
- The only spammable channel (for aoe) has another ability to go with it which can be cast instantly while channeling so it doesn't feel as bad
- Veil (ogcd defensive) can be used with all channels to ease the feeling of being rooted
All that said I think Deep Freeze might have too long of a channel, I think I would prefer something closer to 3-4s with an additional channel for single target because there really isn't much in the way of channeling because as you said they're horrid but if they're as short as normal casts they're not so bad. -
06-08-2020, 10:47 AMMirronTulaxiaWe know, from the lore team themselves, that they are secondary to whatever the developers want to do. They make up lore to fit the changes they make, not the other way around. Lore that amounts to "something ancient or something new" is really all the justification needed. Allag had a method for dealing with Voidsent is hardly surprising given Cloud of Darkness. Maybe something from the New World given that's where Blue Mage hails from and it's completely different from what people expect. Any number of possible justifications. Again, we had a fairly sweeping change not that long ago with the Astral/Umbral switch. Dismissing the idea out of hand because of lore of all things is silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gula
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06-08-2020, 11:02 AMSophie_Lo
Just turning some brainthoughts here, but... since creatures of the Void seek to prey on others to devour their aether, even going so far as to prey on each other, because the Void has no aether of its own, per se; would not wielding void magic become more of a matter of summoning/and or binding a voidsent, thus using them as a battery, of sorts? The way Mhach powered the Void Ark was basically the same principle and application, no?
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06-08-2020, 12:24 PMKabooa
Ah, cast time abilities. Those threw me off. I see cast times, I think GCD, seeing as only Blue Mage has OGCD casts.
Instead of channeling, I'd suggest just doing longer than average cast times if you want to get the 'rooted to the ground' flavor. Cast time spells have all the same weight and problems that channeled do, but it's A) All or nothing, and B) A little easier to plan around.
Channels, especially those with a cooldown, are notoriously frustrating in a game where windows of opportunity often coincide with random forced movement.
My primary suggestions would be
1. Changing the nature of the filler. The GCD is 2.5 and Server ticks are 3.0. I can see this being a little off kilter. Nothing wrong with Shadowbolt.
2. The DoT reduction from the filler can be repurposed into a separate short CD ability (30-45s) that has a similar function, with a more pronounced effect as it's no longer on not-shadowbolt.
3. The Demonform timer seems unnecessarily short and likely a product of having the comparison from WoW. 10 seconds is an extremely small window of capitalization in FF14. 20-30s is more in line with FF14's pacing, and adjust auracite gain and Summon length accordingly. -
06-08-2020, 05:32 PMSeraphorSo basically the forbidden branch of Black mage...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophie_Lo
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06-08-2020, 06:37 PMVideraSo here's the deal, Dark and Light - according to The First and observably true - represent activity and stasis. Aether/magic that is aligned to dark is what you would expect out of a statement like activity, the problem being that the flood of darkness in the thirteenth had the mild consequence of all of the aether being snuffed out by too much activity - burning out, so to speak, or feasted upon by the transforming populace. The only thing that, per-se, has aether in the void is the voidsent themselves. Sort of like how vampires drink blood. The Ancient Sorcerers of Mhach were just ripping open holes in the fabric of reality like the reckless fools they were and reaching out to whatever would respond. Be it a powerful voidsent, or an imp. Voidcalling being in and of itself inherently unpredictable and dangerous as a result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulzscha
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06-08-2020, 07:15 PMSeraphorYou can also think of it as Order vs. Entropy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Videra
Umbral/Light aether is stasis and order, which means aether is preserved but inert.
Astral/Dark aether is activity and disorder. Aether is chaotic, and tends towards entropy, ultimately dispersing into space until it's concentration is so low as to not exist.
Voidsent must have 'evolved' to capitalise on astral energy in spite of this tendency towards entropy. Rather than containing and ordering it, they're in constant battle, consuming each other or their aether. The fact that they're always ravenous for this aether shows that they're not very good as storage for it exactly, but that is their goal, to store as much aether as possible because otherwise it will disperse into nothing.
But again, this is literally the Black Mage job quests. So I can't see it being the basis for another caster DPS. -
06-08-2020, 08:35 PMMirronTulaxiaThis would be what I’d expect too. But they could always come up with another answer that explains it. It really depends on how exactly they want to approach the concept in a hypothetical void mage. Some sort of ancient Mhach or Allag answer is pretty viableQuote:
Originally Posted by Sophie_Lo
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06-09-2020, 02:24 AMTulzschaWith how scripted this game is though it shouldn't be a problem once you learn the fights I would think. The only one I see being potentially problematic is Deep Freeze so you just have to find an opening once a minute and there's Veil if you get targeted. Plus if you do have to move you can still get part of the effect so it's not a total loss like a cast would be. As for Evil Mist you can move and re-channel no problem or just multi-dot and spam Paroxysm from afar if you really need to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabooa
1. They are mismatched but you never really notice dot ticks happening, if it is a problem the cast time could be changed to 1.5 or 3s but spell speed could always mess it up. Nothing wrong with Shadowbolt, it's just boring. Umm with that change the chance for the dots' additional effects could be increased slightly and the base dmg of either Degenerate or the dots increased so yeah that could work but I don't see the need. Would make balancing easier I guess.Quote:
My primary suggestions would be
1. Changing the nature of the filler. The GCD is 2.5 and Server ticks are 3.0. I can see this being a little off kilter. Nothing wrong with Shadowbolt.
2. The DoT reduction from the filler can be repurposed into a separate short CD ability (30-45s) that has a similar function, with a more pronounced effect as it's no longer on not-shadowbolt.
3. The Demonform timer seems unnecessarily short and likely a product of having the comparison from WoW. 10 seconds is an extremely small window of capitalization in FF14. 20-30s is more in line with FF14's pacing, and adjust auracite gain and Summon length accordingly.
2. Hrmm less consistency but more burst potential, that'd require more forethought, might not feel good refreshing dots then using that then having to refresh them again shortly after and if their extra effects procced that's a lot of stuff to deal with at once, would all of that be annoying or fun for a short cd? Another thing I'd like to play test. ><
3. It lasts 10s because it can be extended by sacrificing summons while it's active (notice Doomsday has a 15s timer and has to be used within this cd). So if you plan ahead and have a few summons up + enough Auracite for a couple more + Osmose you can extend it quite a bit, and everything is sped up during that cd so it's easier to handle everything going on. -
06-09-2020, 09:19 AMShougun
With creativity, and an idea interesting enough to warrant the effort, I feel lore should never get in the way unless the game has be designed with a super realistic ground work which FFXIV has not. Not to make lore not sound important though, you should absolutely put effort into the lore not being slapped around for no reason, and spend time using it to back your gameplay too when possible as that adds a lot of flow/immersive potential, but still that you can massage it and add material where you need. Particularly I find that because the world ages things develop and this adds a lot of leeway as long as you are willing to spend time making the changes- just like real life and technology or culture. Time can be a huge friend in making something happen.
Sometimes people use lore like some impossible wall to surmount, like it's a fact it can't be done any other way because lore, but I feel that ignores the natural progression of the world, well that and Yoshida has said gameplay before lore (but ideally we get both in matrimony lol), and so I unfortunately I often cannot see people using it any other way than to casually say no without putting more effort into the conversation. As because a lot of these people are quite knowledgeable in the lore and could come up with solutions to their own problems if they had cared about it themselves. I think it would be more interesting to hear that "your idea isn't worth the effort to move the lore around" which begins to tell the story of what specifically is the problem, maybe the idea was bad, maybe they don't personally like what you want, maybe the idea was okay but not as good as the lore, but if the idea was good then what can we do about it? Just saying lore is almost always it seems to be the easy way to close a conversation and it's almost never actually the lore, at least when I read more interesting/more effort driven desires (I'm sure there is stuff that's just like "uh no" like let's retcon the GC leaders to be Dodos who come from the third planet around KFC, but I feel I don't see that very often at all as much as I see lore walls put up). Not that I've anything personal against the few that used it here, actually contrary I think I've eagerly agreed with a few I know by name a few times lol- still "lore no's" as I call them get my metaphorical hackles going as I've seen them proven wrong a few times and seem more like "I don't want this idea".
For a more context related example it reminds me of Summoner when I was asking for them to have more impactful spells and larger primals even if temporary. I was told impossible, cannot be done. I even tried to come up with reasons that didn't give the lore a giant middle finger, because I dont want to give lore the middle finger if I can help it lol, like creating battery like mechanics and using aether already laced in the air thanks to bahamut or other events as well as perhaps new studies found from the tomestones. Interestingly, and I'm not saying SE listened to me specifically as it could have easily been something they intended/divined themselves, that was pretty much what happened- battery mechanics and laced aether. Though things like that, more than just that example, is also why when people say SE doesn't listen I'm fairly certain they do.
Anyway, my suggestion to lore if the void is absence then might be to say that the void mages use the absence of aether to damage their foes. Just run right into the lore and agree, void is hunting for what it lacks. I'm pretty sure getting akin to blackhole magic tossed inside you is going to hurt lol. Create a miasma of absence, a plague desiring what it lacks- life force.
To add I really enjoy the idea of a morally questionable job, a job that fights fire with fire, fire right in their veins, or jobs that have a cost, like Blue Mage in FFXI, funnily something I actively go against this in real life but in games it's great lol (two wrongs don't make a right). Something I'd like to see for such a job if it happens too though is being questions, perhaps with multi-choice answers that the game then responds to. It's just a game so we shouldn't take it too seriously but I would find it interesting to have a semi-real life discussion on using powers that may be just TOO dangerous and is it morally acceptable. Maybe add a few lines with making the Scions uncomfortable.
Personally I would suggest if you must keep the voidsent part of the job, actually demons being bound to you, that the lore of the job is more accidental. Like you somehow fell into the void world while hunting down a terrible necromancer/demon thing. Soaking in the void, being assaulted from every angle, nearly dying, and then something reaches out that you somehow are able to feel into, their mistake, and you bind it to your will it allows you to attune to the others around you and you absorb/bind them too, you've not bound the entire void plane just a tiny fraction of it. Could even give the job it's own little void plane, as if you were growing an empire lol. In this way you didn't really intend to summon the demons as much as you had to, and even the quest you can try to find a way to disconnect it. The quest line could let you choose at dialog choices whether you're accepting your fate and using your powers as best you can or if you are fearful of yourself and trying to unbecome what you had. That said I would.. if possible suggest moving further away from specifically summoning the voidsent as pets in the fight just because it'd take less lore forklifting lol. Perhaps to keep summoning but remove them being demons you make it more iike creating structures that empower your other attacks, void stabilizers that help you manipulate the void warp (turrets and support structures, perhaps crystaline void). Honestly keep doing whatever you want though, just my 2 gil :D.
It is an interest of mine enough that I made two threads (morphing job, healer job) on something dark :3. To be fair, and selfishly I admit, I'd prefer to have a dark transforming job over purely a dark mage, but a dark mage could be interesting and I know some others have voiced desire for a void mage (dark theme'd jobs are probably a more niche desire but eey we are out there lol). -
06-09-2020, 12:23 PMSophie_Lo
In theory, learning the ancient Mhachi techniques of Void summoning/binding need not even be so complicated. There is one creature alive on the Source that has the required knowledge, but convincing Cait Sith to teach you such forbidden things is another matter altogether, I suppose.
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06-09-2020, 09:55 PMTulzschaJust about every idea thread I've ever seen has people saying "no because [reason]", whether that reason be lore or they want something else fixed first or something else added instead and to be frank those posts aren't worth the time it takes to make them. Everything in this game is stuff that people just made up. If the devs have a cool idea they absolutely have to put in the game they'll find a way to make it fit. When it comes to random player ideas they're just that, ideas. We're essentially pissing in the wind but it's fun talking about things that could be and how they might work and that's as far as it goes.Quote:
I often cannot see people using [lore] any other way than to casually say no without putting more effort into the conversation.
Pretty much the only information I could find on Void Mages is that they summoned Voidsent by opening rifts, and there aren't any Void Mages left. So it's a very open design space, but I do think summoning Voidsent is important to the job. That being said I wouldn't be against a version that doesn't use Voidsent because it's essentially an entirely new job that can be taken in many directions, this is just my take on it. There's something to be said for the mechanical aspect as well since there currently are no jobs with expendable minions, or a focus on dots.Quote:
Anyway, my suggestion to lore if the void is absence then might be to say that the void mages use the absence of aether to damage their foes.
Personally I would suggest if you must keep the voidsent part of the job, actually demons being bound to you, that the lore of the job is more accidental.
Using the absence of aether is a cool idea, I don't think anything like that has been done before. It's like anti-aether. Could be used like a vacuum that drains aether from things, a controlled black hole of sorts. That certainly has potential.
Yep, for sure. I imagine unlocking the job would give you the choice of saying "this is too dangerous" and turning down the job, more stuff along that line would be good too. The Scions most definitely wouldn't like it and Cait Sith might even become your enemy for using it - at least until you can convince them you're only using it for good though they'd still be wary.Quote:
Something I'd like to see for such a job if it happens too though is being questions, perhaps with multi-choice answers that the game then responds to. It's just a game so we shouldn't take it too seriously but I would find it interesting to have a semi-real life discussion on using powers that may be just TOO dangerous and is it morally acceptable. Maybe add a few lines with making the Scions uncomfortable.