Necromancer thoughts

Just my thoughts on how I'd like to see a Necromancer played.

TLDR: A couple gauges. You cast debuff/drain spells that build up Necromantic Energy which you spend on spawning/buffing minions. Then as minions die, you gain bones, which you spend on direct attacks.

Gauge 1: Necromantic Energy
Gauge 2: Bones

Life Drain: Cast this DoT on an enemy that drains their life essence, turning it into Necromantic Energy.

Necrotic Spike: Cause Life Drain to flare up, dealing a % damage of Life Drains total damage instantly. Provides a quick boost for Necrotic Energy, the less you have the more it provides.

Essence Sap: A small DoT that also reduces the damage dealt by the enemies normal attacks. Also grants Necrotic Energy (Maybe also make it so Spike also effects his).

Raise Undead Warrior : Raise a skeletal minion that charges after the enemy, attacking them in melee. Raising an Undead Warrior costs more for each Undead Warrior active. Only lasts for a specified duration. When an Undead Warrior expires/dies, it adds to your Bones meter. (Cost Necromantic Energy)

Raise Undead Archer: Raise a skeletal minion that charges after the enemy, attacking them in melee. Raising an Undead Archer costs more for each Undead Archer active. Only lasts for a specified duration. When an Undead Archer expires/dies, it adds to your Bones meter. (Cost Necromantic Energy)

Raise Bloated Corpse: Raise a corpse that charges into the enemy, belly flops, and explodes doing AoE damage. Also provides bones. (Cost Necromantic Energy)

Raise Ultimate: I'd like some neat ultimate after summoning so many undead minions. Either a big bad undead, like a Lich or Death Knight, or maybe the choice between the two. A giant hand comes up and slams down on the enemy. Something flashy and cool.

Bone Spears: Create two portals into the abyss, each spawning a Bone Spear that launches towards your enemy. Chance on hit to refresh "Drain Life". (Costs Bones)

Bone Barrage: Create multiple small portals into the abyss, sending out multiple bone spurs at the enemy. Chance to debuff enemy with bleeds, and slow. (Costs Bones)

Bone Graveyard: Cause a multitude of bone spikes to shoot out of the ground in an area. For each enemy hit, there is a chance to proc a free + instant cast Bloated Corpse. (Costs Bones)

I would like to add a few extra actual debuffs to the enemy that could have the Necromancer be kind of a reverse Bard. Instead of buffs, they debuff the enemy. I just can't think of any off-hand.

LIMITED PLAY: The Necromancer can create a permanent Undead Minion from certain enemies they have killed. Only one can be active at a time. And only can be active where Chocobo's can be active. Basically adds a collection akin to the Blue Mage, and some limited playstyle to it, while still being a full class for dungeons/raids.

Sounds cool from gameplay perspective. For some reason though I don't really see the bones theme fit in FFXIV. I can see undead creatures like those zombie-like mobs in this game but when it comes to bones and skeletons and such, maybe I'm just not used to it in this art style. I think we'd just see void magic of sorts instead of bones for necromancers.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Sounds cool from gameplay perspective. For some reason though I don't really see the bones theme fit in FFXIV. I can see undead creatures like those zombie-like mobs in this game but when it comes to bones and skeletons and such, maybe I'm just not used to it in this art style. I think we'd just see void magic of sorts instead of bones for necromancers.

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/shrug Already bones and skeletons in the game. Don't see why not?

I'm personally big into skeletons, zombies less so. Personal preference really.

As for the actual attacks, kind of whatever there. Could be void magic instead of bone. I just wanted to add in flare for when your minions die, you still utilize their bodies. I would prefer if you could use corpse explosion, corpse lance, etc. But I don't see that working well in this game.

Appreciate the feedback though.

Necromancer is not a job you often see in a Final Fantasy.

We first need to identify its... Identity

It appeared in V with the additionnal content in the remakes and... As an ennemy.

They use Dark Arts such as Drain Touch, Dark Flare, Deep Freeze, Hellwind and so on. The problem I can already see, is that these abilities fits on Dark Knight and Black mage.
The other problem I see is that they use Death and Zombie. Death is a Blue Spell, Zombie can't exist as a usable spell for obvious reasons.

Another problem is tied to the lore and the world. You're the Warrior of light fightning against evil and for the weak, yet you summon the corpse of the deceased...?

In short, Necromancer should actually be a "Void mage", it's a recurrent theme and different enough from Black Mage/DRK. You could exploit existing spells such as Meteor or Black Hole. On top of that, it's already tied with Necromancy. Neat!

Then you have to look at the design.

You mainly want to keep the Dark Arts theme while not making the job a duplicate of Dark Knight and Black mage.
The other thing(s) you want to avoid are pets. They're badly designed or badly implemented, either a glorified dot (MCH, DRK) or a laggy extension of your character (SMN/SCH).
According to your design, you don't interact with a pet, you just let it do its own thing until it dies and they gives you resources.

You are going to use Dots that deals damage on their own. You are going to summon skeletons that deals damage on their own. To fuel a gauge that summons a bigger skeleton to deal damage on its own. I'm not exactly sure if XIV players wants to play cookie clicker.

"Bone-magic" also sounds... off. Unless it's Undertale, but doesn't fit in XIV. I don't think there was ever use of Bones as magic in past FF titles.

Limited play
Forget that.
Blue mage reception was so terrible they canceled/post-poned plans to implement Beast Master as a limited job.
Plus you'd have to design and balance all of this just for fluff. Too much resources to spend in a single job, you'd have to select the specific monsters to be used as pet, you'd have to manage a specific IA for that, unless you want it to aggro any monsters within range.

Overrall
It's a cool suggestion but it's more a design you want and not a design that would fit in the game, that the community would actually want.
One of its problem is that it takes a lot from existing jobs: Pets and dots (SMN), Life Drain and Dark Arts (DRK). Bone magic is unique, but there is no such thing as "Bone element". Ice or Void would fit much more, but I don't see how the WoL could actually use the Void, maybe like Exdeath to empower its attacks.
The first task when you design something for a game, is to ask yourself how much resources it will need and if it is feasible in a reasonable amount of time. The design also has to make sense in the World and you can't use the excuse "It's magic".

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Limited play
Forget that.
Blue mage reception was so terrible they canceled/post-poned plans to implement Beast Master as a limited job.

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Is that true? Can you link to where they said this? Feeling disappointed now - been hoping for a Beast Master job since I started exploring SB content. Especially now since Arcanists and SMN/SCH are no longer a real 'pet' class - one just has a reskinned fairy that does the exact same thing and the other is transitioning into big trance summons. Both classes have a pet hotbar but I don't see any real usage of interacting with it anymore since pets lost their HP bars.

I mean, honestly I can't see Necromancer working in this game. It just doesn't seem like something that fits the game style much, and of the possible options for a Caster DPS (which is really the only option we will see) there are just more reasonable ones to point at. I suppose if they keep reworking Summoner we could see them steal that gameplay style, but I'd imagine they'd give that to Onmyouji given Mystic is all about debuffs in FFT.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

Is that true? Can you link to where they said this? Feeling disappointed now - been hoping for a Beast Master job since I started exploring SB content. Especially now since Arcanists and SMN/SCH are no longer a real 'pet' class - one just has a reskinned fairy that does the exact same thing and the other is transitioning into big trance summons. Both classes have a pet hotbar but I don't see any real usage of interacting with it anymore since pets lost their HP bars.

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They mentioned BST and pup along with blue mage when first announcing limited jobs 2 years ago ish. Theres a theory that theyve cancelled BST as a limited job however as the Bozja Resistance npcs talk about a beast master in the empire, and other bits of BST lore, which is leading some to think "Beast Master" will be the Bozja verion of Logos actions. This also lines up with a Famitsu interview a few months back where yoshi p said 5.3 with have "Ranch-like content".

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Originally Posted by Klaleara

/shrug Already bones and skeletons in the game. Don't see why not?

I'm personally big into skeletons, zombies less so. Personal preference really.

As for the actual attacks, kind of whatever there. Could be void magic instead of bone. I just wanted to add in flare for when your minions die, you still utilize their bodies. I would prefer if you could use corpse explosion, corpse lance, etc. But I don't see that working well in this game.

Appreciate the feedback though.

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That's a no go in China. It's a common form of censorship, because showing skeletons goes against their ancestral culture. They have their own client, and I'm sure that bone enemies have been replaced or modified. Also, it's a massive affront to the lore. Necromancy is punishable by death in every single form of government in game. Especially Ul'dah.

Cool concept but this isn't the universe for it unless its an antagonist.

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Originally Posted by Gula

That's a no go in China. It's a common form of censorship, because showing skeletons goes against their ancestral culture. They have their own client, and I'm sure that bone enemies have been replaced or modified. Also, it's a massive affront to the lore. Necromancy is punishable by death in every single form of government in game. Especially Ul'dah.

Cool concept but this isn't the universe for it unless its an antagonist.

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I mean, skeletons are in the game currently as you realize. Just replace any Necromancy minions with zombies, or whatever is normal for China. Wouldn't be the first case of this happening. Nor would it be difficult.

Also, in the thaumaturge questline they talk about using Necromancy in Ul'dah, and its the cowardly brothers, can't be THAT bad. Also things can change, as it happens so often. When things get desperate enough, the enemy of your enemy is your friend no matter who it is.

I've been working on a Necro design myself and I couldn't get it to fit in the lore. I mean you can come up with an excuse for anything but some things are just too much of a stretch and Necros I think are one of them. So I reskinned everything to a Void Mage which worked pretty well, the design is kind of similar to yours in a way. The only aspect I couldn't really get to fit is the tankiness which is one of my favorite aspects of the class so meh. But expendable minions and dots, no problem.

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

I've been working on a Necro design myself and I couldn't get it to fit in the lore. I mean you can come up with an excuse for anything but some things are just too much of a stretch and Necros I think are one of them. So I reskinned everything to a Void Mage which worked pretty well, the design is kind of similar to yours in a way. The only aspect I couldn't really get to fit is the tankiness which is one of my favorite aspects of the class so meh. But expendable minions and dots, no problem.

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I'd actually drop the DoT's if I thought it was realistic. Replace them with pure debuffs that drain for Nectrotic Energy.

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

I've been working on a Necro design myself and I couldn't get it to fit in the lore. I mean you can come up with an excuse for anything but some things are just too much of a stretch and Necros I think are one of them. So I reskinned everything to a Void Mage which worked pretty well, the design is kind of similar to yours in a way. The only aspect I couldn't really get to fit is the tankiness which is one of my favorite aspects of the class so meh. But expendable minions and dots, no problem.

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I could see a Void Mage (funnily usually called Arcanist but not an option) being a thing. Granted I think the issue is the Void is... well, bad. If they want to give another "good" Dark option though they could possibly make it work. And really it's basically what Necromancers are in FF.

In wich Final Fantasy can you play as a necromancer ?

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Originally Posted by Klaleara

I'd actually drop the DoT's if I thought it was realistic. Replace them with pure debuffs that drain for Nectrotic Energy.

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What do you mean a debuff that drains? Like the same thing you have but without the damage aspect? Don't see why not, I just like dots.

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Originally Posted by Venur

In wich Final Fantasy can you play as a necromancer ?

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5

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

I could see a Void Mage (funnily usually called Arcanist but not an option) being a thing. Granted I think the issue is the Void is... well, bad. If they want to give another "good" Dark option though they could possibly make it work. And really it's basically what Necromancers are in FF.

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Yeah I think SMN was originally supposed to be something like a Necro but it didn't fit in the lore. I wouldn't say the void is bad any more than light is bad or burning things is bad though. We already saw how bad light can be in SHB, it's just another force. You could even justify its use with the same thing that happened on the First: We do our job fighting for Light too well and need to balance it out to save the planet.

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

What do you mean a debuff that drains? Like the same thing you have but without the damage aspect? Don't see why not, I just like dots.



5

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DoT's are all fine, I just always like "unique" jobs. Things that don't fill just the generic role. My preference would be Necromancer would be DPS/Debuff, much like how Bard is DPS/Buff.

Not only is it in 5, its also in another offshoot. And shows up (Usually as enemies) in numerous FF games. However, I don't get peoples obsession with previous FF games. All FF games are unique to each other, who cares if something new shows up in FF14? Is FF14 the only FF game that is banned from having something unique?

The best argument I've seen against it so far is the setting. We haven't really seen much Necromancy at all, and even when it is, its usually just a mention. It would definitely have to be part of the story in a new expansion, kinda how Death Knights became a thing in WoW (Which I think was superbly done).

1. Yep, FFV is the first FF where you can play as a Necromancer. In that game though they're more just generic "evil mage" style, and gain magic by killing enemies. Because of how you unlock them they're kind of just a bonus anyways.

2. I wouldn't say Darkness is evil certainly. The Void, aka the 13th Shard, is a shard that has tipped too far into Darkness and is evil. As for the Source leaning too far into Light that doesn't seem to be a concern just yet.

3. I could see an Arcanist being Damage and Debuff, but the damage being DoTs still works really.

4. Necromancers are only in FFV in anything resembling a meaningful name. There is technically the Deathlord in Dimensions 2, but he doesn't really do all that much in the way of Necromancy. Outside of that there is Airborne Brigade, but jobs in that game are all of two weapons and one of three stats, so not exactly meaningful there either. Outside of those, they're the name for a reskin of a generic Mage enemy that shows up sometimes in old school 2D FFs.

5. XIV can do its own thing, but part of that is representing existing jobs and themes in somewhat different light. That and while XIV can do some of its own thing I at least wouldn't want it to do something that doesn't fit FF much, which I think a full on Necromancer would count for that. Along with simply having other jobs I would want to see. Arcanist/Void Mage is about as far in this direction as I'd be interested in.

6. As far as the setting goes Necromancers really don't fit either. And the only one I recall us seeing was basically a Void Mage in all but name anyways.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

6. As far as the setting goes Necromancers really don't fit either. And the only one I recall us seeing was basically a Void Mage in all but name anyways.

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From what I know, there are the Thaum brothers who mentioned it. And there is the island off of Limsa that is full of undead that were raised by Necromancy (I think it was the Red Mage quest that noted the Necromancy). It's noted in several places, just not heavily defined. Hell, that might lend a hand to actually making ti playable. Less its talked about, the more you can do with it.

The island off Limsa is full of undead due to Siren from what I recall, unless they changed that since the last time I was there (which is certainly possible). And it's there, but that doesn't mean that it really fits. As I said, the only real dedicated Necromancer we've had is Edda, and she basically used bodies as vessels for Voidsent from what I recall.

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Originally Posted by Klaleara

DoT's are all fine, I just always like "unique" jobs. Things that don't fill just the generic role. My preference would be Necromancer would be DPS/Debuff, much like how Bard is DPS/Buff.

Not only is it in 5, its also in another offshoot. And shows up (Usually as enemies) in numerous FF games. However, I don't get peoples obsession with previous FF games. All FF games are unique to each other, who cares if something new shows up in FF14? Is FF14 the only FF game that is banned from having something unique?

The best argument I've seen against it so far is the setting. We haven't really seen much Necromancy at all, and even when it is, its usually just a mention. It would definitely have to be part of the story in a new expansion, kinda how Death Knights became a thing in WoW (Which I think was superbly done).

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I feel ya. That'd work, SMN used to have a debuff that increased the magic dmg the target took so just give that to them with some other similar things, ezpz. Only thing about that is it'd play out essentially the same except solo play would be worse so you're sacrificing that for flavor. But it wouldn't have to be by much, they could even have alternate debuffs that only benefit them. HmMmMMm.

Pretty much everything in FFXIV is based off something from a previous game (even if extremely loosely), just keeping that theme going.

Not only is Necromancy barely mentioned it's usually done through alchemical means or a long process, it doesn't really exist as magic that could be used in a combat situation. There's also the question of where do the undead come from which being a video game it's not a big deal but FFXIV seems to care a bit more about that kind of thing.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

I wouldn't say Darkness is evil certainly. The Void, aka the 13th Shard, is a shard that has tipped too far into Darkness and is evil. As for the Source leaning too far into Light that doesn't seem to be a concern just yet.

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I mean... define evil. The Voidsent are starved for aether so they try to satisfy their needs, kind of like how a hungry bear would eat you. (I'm not sure about the more powerful ones though). Too much of anything is bad, balance is important. If I remember right the Garleans unleashing Black Rose was supposed to trigger a calamity along with the First being overwhelmed in Light so it was close to something.

The way I would implement it in the game though is first having some of the Void pour into the Source through a big ol rift (a few different potential causes for that), and as a result it becomes a more accessible source of power because right now there are no Void Mages and afaik they have to open a rift to the 13th to access it which is potentially disastrous so we would need a way around that. Then once the Void is accessible why not use it to fight fire with fire so to speak.

The Voidsent can be starved of aether but that doesn't make them less evil. And as far as the Black Rose and Cataclysm goes, how it works is a shard gets pumped full of a particular type of aether, and then a viable outlet has to be prepared on the Source. Black Rose isn't a cataclysm without the Shard pumped full of Light.

And given Eden it seems like if anything they're moving towards fixing the Thirteenth.

Eh idk I get the impression most Voidsent are mindless and so incapable of premeditated evil deeds. The most evil thing about using them (assuming good intentions) would be forcing a creature to unwillingly serve you, and Voidsent used to be people so it's a bit of a dark grey area. (Edit: That's how it has been done in the past at least, there could be some pact made via magical means where we feed them the aether of our enemies in return for their service.)

Corpses used to be people too and using them is a no-no but Voidsent are what they are already and unlike corpses they'll kill people on their own so uh it could make for some interesting story if nothing else.

Ah using Eden on the 13th is an interesting thought. Could also be a reason we gain access to Void Magic if we're intent on going there. Not sure we would though since there's nothing left to save and even the Ascians can't use it.

I hunger for a caster which uses darkness as its main form of attack. Whether or not it'd be necromancer, I'm hoping we'll see one come in the future.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I hunger for a caster which uses darkness as its main form of attack. Whether or not it'd be necromancer, I'm hoping we'll see one come in the future.

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I mean, Black Mages have a fair number of spells one could call "Darkness". Next expansion is likely the last DoM, personally I'm expecting Onmyouji and Geomancer, neither of which are really "dark" themed casters. But they could always surprise us.

I would prefer necromancer to be a melee HEALER actually. They use scythe weapons to "rip" out enemies aether and use it to heal their allies. they summon a melee ghoul to help deal damage or summon a ghost that will every so often heal like how eos does. The ghoul uses the aether you collected to do big aoe heals. The melee ghoul uses it to buff allies nearby say like a %5 dmg increase that lasts 20 seconds on a 90cd.

As much as i want necros to be a dps job, i feel its better suited for the healer role.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I hunger for a caster which uses darkness as its main form of attack. Whether or not it'd be necromancer, I'm hoping we'll see one come in the future.

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https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...threads/367517

I made a pseudo Necromancer of sorts that has an undead minion but uses dark forces to inflict damage. It’s a ranged caster. (DoT based DPS)

But I’d love to see how they could implement a necromancer while tying it in to WoL lore wise.

I actually made a sort of post on Reddit about the Necromancer.

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I want a necromancer. I've given a lot of thought to how it would play.
Wields scythes and cloth armor. The necromancer already has a ton of abilities from FF5 that could be made into class features, and with the Oath ability, they could rapidly spawn short lived minions to attack enemies. Their Dark Arts could be used to inflict debuffs on enemies (if not bosses then just on mobs) and they'd have the ability to drain enemies to heal and/or buff themselves. And this might be a bit crazy, but what if they had a rez that didn't inflict Weakness? This is a class I really want to see.
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...Fantasy_V_job)
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Oath_(ability)
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...nal_Fantasy_V)

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