Housing is the most toxic and frustrating aspect of this game, how can it be so bad?

I have spend weeks and 12+ hours multiple times to try to get the only plot miraculously opened up on the entire server only to have someone fly in and transfer to the plot or get super lucky on the timer, its beyond frustrating and forces many players into extremely toxic mindsets, both during the wait for sale and after the sale is made. I cannot believe just how far the system goes to discourage new players from experiencing content that a ton of the crafting system is built around.

And yet there are tons of dead, empty houses, all over but none for sale to new homeowners who would actually use it. Why is there not a build out/use requirement. At least have dead lots be required to at least look like someone cared about it once...

A limited resource isn't toxic.
Right now isn't the best time since auto demolition is on pause (meaning nothing had just opened up without someone manually doing it, thus the transfer you saw was probably planned). Once it's back into place I'm sure you'll see many plots open up as people continue to not use their houses as you say. They have to actually enter their houses to keep it, afterall.

I understand the need to vent due to frustration but calling housing a toxic system is going a bit far.

You don't have to own a house to experience housing. You can get a private chamber in your FC house or an apartment. You can be added as a tenant to a friend's house. The crafting system is not built around owning a house nor are housing items a majority of what can be crafted.

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Originally Posted by Zylphia

And yet there are tons of dead, empty houses, all over but none for sale to new homeowners who would actually use it. Why is there not a build out/use requirement. At least have dead lots be required to at least look like someone cared about it once...

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You don't know whether or not those houses are getting used. Players can use them in whatever way they want within the limits of the game rules and ToS. If someone wants to stick nothing but a Summoning Bell in their house and use it as a quiet place to craft away from others, they can do that. Some FCs buy houses solely for access to the company workshop, which requires house ownership. They leave their houses undecorated since it's something they only pass through to get to their workshops.

That last comment of yours is why most people refuse to buy a house in an area where HOA membership is required. Others don't buy a house to please you. You have no right to decide what they must do with their house.

I believe it is toxic, it poisons the community and the interactions around house buying are just plain ugly, cause harassment, and the worst this community has to offer.. by that metric alone it is a toxic system.

The hidden timer system is such a waste of time and unfairly gated in favor of those who already have ownership of such a "limited" resource.

There are many ways this system could be handled without being such an arbitrary and negative waste of time for almost everyone involved. How can you call a group of around 20 players all wasting dozens of hours for a tiny chance at claiming ownership of a small house plot, only to have someone fly in and relocate to it causing the timer to start all over again in a different location at no gain to the system or player base at all anything but toxic...(moving is not a positive, its just reshuffling of the resources among those who already have it.)

For instance if it is meant to be a lottery why is it not just an actual lottery with a time limit? Allow people to buy a ticket or 5, each for the cost of the plot and make a drawing at a set time or number of tickets sold, then refund the price of anyone who did not win. That would still provide the random chance and not further waste up to 24 hours per "auction".

I get that they tried other things and players broke and abused the system (see toxic) so they resorted to what we currently have but I am sick with shock at how bad this implementation currently is.

If apartments and private rooms allowed FC workshops, outside furniture, and gardening they would be more acceptable, but alas they do not they are just tiny little rooms with low item limits.

If you are so convinced it is toxic, why do you want to be part of it?

if there was a lottery system - the ones that lose out would still call it toxic. it's lose/lose.

Placard shouldn't be clickable when the house is not available. There should be some other mechanism for alerting those waiting that the house is available. Sitting there continually clicking the placard is uncalled for and needs to be done away with. I know I've done it numerous times and luckily I won once but that was cause there were a few afk and only one person actively working at it. The plot wasn't in a prime location but getting that first house is the key given you can later relocate to a better plot which I did.

people would still sit there and camp and complain. i've yet to see another acceptable solution presented other than reversing everything, wiping everything out. (which is 0.0001% chance of happening).

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

people would still sit there and camp and complain. i've yet to see another acceptable solution presented other than reversing everything, wiping everything out. (which is 0.0001% chance of happening).

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Nothing wrong with the camping but clicking for hours is certainly inhumane. An alert that the house is now available (perhaps a countdown clock of say 2 to 5 minutes viewable only at the house location similar to the start of a fate in Firmament) and for those who are awake and waiting they can then at least try and capture the house first.

And if you mean restarting the housing system from scratch by wiping everything out yes that won't happen.

I also think upgradeable apartments to medium and large would help a lot. I don't see them changing the size of the small given many have deco'd their places unless there is an option to buy an different small size which would require a transfer of furnishings to it. When housing first released small houses were one floor only. A basement was added at a later date and I don't remember how long that took after the initial release.

A lottery system would be better and fairer by far than this. I tried on my server getting a small plot in goblet for the last 4. The plots always showed up when i was checking in the evening and the timer for new house buyers always vanished when normal people sleep or need to get ready for work (for my timezones it was always between 5:00 and 6:30). Of course they where taken when i had the chance to check back. People also love to jump around the placard or popping up big mounts or/and pets to make it harder to target the card for other ppl. This especially happens when their is a group of friends or some guildis that try to support their FC member in the attempt getting a plot. At least that was what i could observe on my server the last days when i was trying to get a plot.

This is exactly what Zylphia is talking about and yes this is a toxic behaviour and bad mindset of those ppl. Be happy if you didn't had to experience this stuff, things shouldnt be like that. And yes if you experience this stuff to often it can make you mad as well, i already catched myself twice where i wished that i could punch one of those annoying morons in the face.

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Originally Posted by Zylphia

I have spend weeks and 12+ hours multiple times to try to get the only plot miraculously opened up on the entire server only to have someone fly in and transfer to the plot or get super lucky on the timer, its beyond frustrating and forces many players into extremely toxic mindsets, both during the wait for sale and after the sale is made. I cannot believe just how far the system goes to discourage new players from experiencing content that a ton of the crafting system is built around.

And yet there are tons of dead, empty houses, all over but none for sale to new homeowners who would actually use it. Why is there not a build out/use requirement. At least have dead lots be required to at least look like someone cared about it once...

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The system isn't toxic. On occasions, some people's behaviour may be toxic, but that is on them. You always have a choice about how you behave.

The system is not ideal, but SE are doing the best they can with what's available. They introduced the demolition timer to prevent house hoarding but, as you've already been advised OP, that's turned off right now because of Covid. So on high population worlds, there is likely to be a slowdown on available houses.

Generally speaking, there is enough housing available unless you live on a very popular server. I recently repurchased a small house, having not had one for a while; there was so much availability that I was able to walk up and buy it, no timer. And I'm on Omega, one of the larger EU servers. SE have also said they are looking at other improvements such as expanding apartments.

You have a few alternatives, OP. You can wait until the housing demolition is back in swing. You can move server to one with better availability. You can hope SE does expand apartments to fit your requirements.

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Originally Posted by Elladie

Generally speaking, there is enough housing available unless you live on a very popular server. I recently repurchased a small house, having not had one for a while; there was so much availability that I was able to walk up and buy it, no timer. And I'm on Omega, one of the larger EU servers. SE have also said they are looking at other improvements such as expanding apartments.

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EU doesn't have the population problem that NA has. It's not a matter of switching to another NA world to get a house because there are no houses sitting unoccupied for days or weeks. Everything is full even on the OP's server, which is one of the lowest pop NA servers if not the lowest pop.

Right now if you play on a NA server and want a house, you have to hope someone will voluntarily relinquish their house (which usually only happens if the player is transferring servers) then compete against several other players standing around a placard trying to be the one clicking it at the right instant when the purchase timer expires. Or you have to give up being in an active FC to spend millions buying a house from a flipper selling them through shell FCs.

Sure someone can transfer outside of NA to EU or JP and get a house but that means leaving behind everyone they know in game and being unable to play with them anymore. It means trying to adjust to a different player base with some different customs and expectations. No one should be placed in that position.

But people need to stop insisting they can't get housing. They can get housing. There are apartments available all over. If you're in a FC with a house, you can also get private chambers. What they can't get without an amazing stroke of luck is a house and that's not the end of the world no matter how much they want to convince others that it is.

A lottery system sounds good on paper but in reality all it does is make your chances worse then they are now. Look at the lottery in real life your chances of winning are already low, but the more people who buy tickets the more the odds stack against you. The number of players who would jump in on a lottery system would be far higher then those who currently haunt placecards just further lessening your chances.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

A lottery system sounds good on paper but in reality all it does is make your chances worse then they are now. Look at the lottery in real life your chances of winning are already low, but the more people who buy tickets the more the odds stack against you. The number of players who would jump in on a lottery system would be far higher then those who currently haunt placecards just further lessening your chances.

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I totally agree and its a lazy persons way of getting a chance at a house that they'd more than likely be unwilling to camp. At least campers care enough about getting one to work at it. I'd rather click that placard with 10 people there then enter a lottery with 500.

Sorry but who really things that a lottery system is worse than what we have now is either unemployment or does not know what he should do during his free time. Standing in one place and doing nothing else than clicking the Placecard over and over again as fast as you can for hours without even knowing when the timer will unlock is beyond idiotic. No even a monkey would be willing to do this, no matter how much bananas you offer him. This is nothing else a 100% pure waste of lifetime and i can understand everyone who use a bot or macro for this.

Its all ready a lottery, whoever clicks first wins. At least than you could use your time for something else again.

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Originally Posted by Missbone

Its all ready a lottery, whoever clicks first wins. At least than you could use your time for something else again.

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That's not a lottery. There might be some luck involved at having it available at a time you're there, but that's still not a lottery.
Also you're only competing against the players who are willing to stand the test of time like yourself. An actual lottery you may as well be competing with the entire server. It would lower everyones changes, and generally give it to people who don't actually have the determination to get it.
This has already been explained how it would be an overall worse situation. Those who don't understand this may have a hard time coming to this realization but you need to think about the system as a whole not just for you and your current immediate grievances with it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If you are so convinced it is toxic, why do you want to be part of it?

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The point is I want to be part of the house designing and ownership part of the game NOT the housing market part of it. The housing market just happens to be an unbearable barrier that you have to get lucky as hell to make it past or fork over ridiculous amounts of money to a real estate magnate selling shell FC's they have amassed on their alts..

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

people would still sit there and camp and complain.

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There would be no reason to, and it would give me and others a choice, to buy my ticket and leave, allowing me to avoid that interaction entirely, which you currently have no option of.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Also you're only competing against the players who are willing to stand the test of time like yourself. An actual lottery you may as well be competing with the entire server. It would lower everyones changes, and generally give it to people who don't actually have the determination to get it.
This has already been explained how it would be an overall worse situation. Those who don't understand this may have a hard time coming to this realization but you need to think about the system as a whole not just for you and your current immediate grievances with it.

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You either already have a house and are happy with your situation, have not done this in a long time, or both... Test of time is BS, I have lost 3 houses to the lucky random guy who shows up and gets it on their first click after sitting there for hours upon hours with the other 5-20 people praying that their fastest button click is the winner sometime in the next 24 hours...

The current system does not give anything more to a player who camps than a lottery system does to a person who buys a ticket.

I suggested a window of time (like 2hrs?) or a number of tickets (20? 50?) a trigger that occurs only when both have been met to do the drawing. (for example: if you were lucky and no one else noticed it was up you may be pulling against 20 players or you might be one of 2500 players in the 2 hours if it was spammed to the world.)

Either way you spend your gil and pray is a whole hell of a lot better than you spend your time and pray. As it is now you can't be doing anything else, not crafting, not checking retainers, not doing dungeons, or even talking to friends, its just spam the sign for hours on end wearing out those keys/buttons... It really is that bad...

Yes losing a house to a lottery pick would suck, but how is that any worse? At least then I could be enjoying other aspects of the game during that time.

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Originally Posted by Zylphia

The point is I want to be part of the house designing and ownership part of the game NOT the housing market part of it. The housing market just happens to be an unbearable barrier that you have to get lucky as hell to make it past or fork over ridiculous amounts of money to a real estate magnate selling shell FC's they have amassed on their alts..

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I think XIV housing system is garbage. I don't know why they didn't go with instanced housing to begin with like other major MMORPGs.

However, I think it should be pointed out that prior to autodemo suspension it was possible to get small FCs with houses at 4m gil and mediums at around 15m-20m from another player on low pop worlds. These prices are pretty close to buying from the system. Now, a small FC house on a low pop world will be around 15-20m.

Not everyone selling is a regular house flipper. Some just want to recoup their gil as they get off the server or because their friends in the FC have stopped playing or whatever.

We can moan and whinge about this housing system all we like but at some point those who really want a house, will find the means to do so.

I think the random timer was a nice effort to curb house flipping, but really even as someone with access to a private mansion I realize that housing mechanics need work.

The hoops you have to go to get through any house now are just bad for an individual's health, be it physically or mentally.

Camping near a placard for hours just to potentially have some bugger relocate is incredibly frustrating.

I think the simple solution to make a lotterly viable would be to implent a entry cap.

It could be set to a few dozen players, with a incremental increase for larger size houses.

This game is already designed to occupy a individual's time in a myriad of ways, we don't need to tether players to a placard just so most can end up completely wasting their time.

That being said, I'd advise you to please take a deep breath OP.

You'll be a lot more productive if you calm your stress levels.
It took me years to get a house, so I can understand the lingering feeling.

Honestly, if they added crossgardening to apartments then I'd sell my house in a heartbeat. I feel kinda guilty, since the only reason I got a house was so I could garden. (I love getting all the different kinds of seeds)
Granted, I'm on a lower population server so I suppose it doesn't matter as much, but still... :/