Just wanted to share some ideas I have for ways to see the White Mage change come 6.0.
The 5.X healers struggle with feeling unique, but probably the most interesting thing added to the lot of them is Afflatus Misery.
Something that's been talked about before was that Afflatus Misery is a DPS loss currently if you compare it to casting Glare 4 times (which is how many casts it takes to reach AM). This means AM is more or less "DPS forgiveness" for when you need to use your GCD healing tools and not really something you want to strive to use. I want to flip this dynamic and make AM (along with a new Afflatus Agony) the thing you want to work toward while healing as a WHM.
Here are the major goals I set out to achieve with this build:
1. Flip the dynamic of WHM's rDPS contribution to be less about spamming Glare and more about getting Afflatus Misery/Agony as quickly as possible and using that as often as possible through GCD healing.
2. Try and create more opportunities for every action to have a place and a purpose, include regular Cure.
3. Expand upon the Lily system and make it accessible earlier so that it's more intrinsic to the WHM's mechanics and less of an accessory.
NOTE: This is ultimately just one perspective on what I think should improve with the WHM come 6.0, but I can't speak for everyone else. I would love to make every WHM player happy with this design, but not everything in this kit may resonate with the rest of the community. Let me know what works and what might be a bad idea.
The things that are Bolded are things that are new/have changed.
White Mage Rework
ACTIONS
Stone Level: 1 Spell
Effect: Deals earth damage with a potency of 150.
Range: 25y Radius: 0y
Cast: 2s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 400
Cure Level: 2 Spell
Effect: Restores target’s HP.
Cure Potency: 450
Trait Effect: When HP is restored to target, generate 1 Lily.
Range: 30y Radius: 0y
Cast: 1.5s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 400
Aero Level: 4 Spell
Effect: Deals wind damage with a potency of 50.
Additional Effect: Wind damage over time.
Potency: 30
Duration: 18s
Range: 25y Radius: 0y
Cast: 0s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 400
Medica Level: 10 Spell
Effect: Restores own HP and the HP of all nearby party members.
Trait Effect: When HP is restored to 4 or more party members, generate 1 Lily.
Range: 0y Radius: 15y
Cast: 2.5s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 1000
Raise Level: 12 Spell
Effect: Resurrects target to a weakened state.
Range: 30y Radius: 0y
Cast: 8s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 2400
Water Level: 15 Spell
Effect: Deals water damage with a potency of 400.
Range: 25y Radius: 0y
Cast: 0s Recast: 60s
MP Cost: 400
Presence of Mind Level: 30 Ability
Effect: Reduces spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay by 20%.
Range: 0y Radius: 0y
Cast: 0s Recast: 120s
MP Cost: 0
Afflatus Solace Level: 30 Spell
Effect: Restores target’s HP.
Cure Potency: 700
Additional Effect: Nourishes the Blood Lily.
Additional Effect: Grants 1 Stack of Cure Mastery.
Healing Gauge Cost: 1 Lily
Range: 30y Radius: 0y
Cast: 0s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 1000
Regen Level: 35 Ability
Effect: Grants healing over time effect to target.
Cure Potency: 200
Duration: 30s
Range: 30y Radius: 0y
Cast: 0s Recast: 30s
MP Cost: 0
Cure II Level: 40 Spell
Effect: Restores target’s HP.
Cure Potency: 700
Trait Effect: When HP is restored to target, generate 1 Lily.
Cure Mastery Cost: 1 Stack
This action cannot be set to the hotbar — Replaces Cure when there is 1 stack of Cure Mastery. Stacks are consumed upon use.
Range: 30y Radius: 0y
Cast: 2s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 400
Holy Level: 45 Spell
Effect: Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 140 to all nearby enemies.
Range: 0y Radius: 8y
Cast: 2.5s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 600
Aero II Level: 46 Spell
Effect: Deals wind damage with a potency of 60.
Additional Effect: Wind damage over time.
Potency: 60
Duration: 18s
Range: 25y Radius: 0y
Cast: 0s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 400
Regen II Level: 50 Spell
Effect: Restores own HP and the HP of all nearby party members.
Cure Potency: 200
Additional Effect: Regen
Cure Potency: 100
Duration: 30s
Range: 0y Radius: 20y
Cast: 0s Recast: 60s
MP Cost: 0
Benediction Level: 50 Ability
Effect: Restores all of a target’s HP.
Range: 30y Radius: 0y
Cast: 0s Recast: 180s
MP Cost: 0
Asylum Level: 52 Ability
Effect: Envelops a designated area in a veil of succor, granting healing over time to self and any party members who enter.
Cure Potency: 100
Duration: 24s
Trait Effect: Increases HP recovery via healing actions on party members in the designated area by 10%.
Range: 30y Radius: 8y
Cast: 0s Recast: 90s
MP Cost: 0
Afflatus Misery Level: 54 Spell
Effect: Deals unaspected damage to target and all enemies nearby it with a potency of 900 for the first enemy, and 25% less for all remaining enemies.
Can only be executed when the Blood Lily is in full bloom.
Trait Effect: Apply 3 stacks of Efflorescence to initial target.
Range: 25y Radius: 5y
Cast: 0s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 0
Stone II Level: 54 Spell
Effect: Deals earth damage with a potency of 170.
Range: 25y Radius: 0y
Cast: 2s Recast: 2.5s
*Stone III Animation*
MP Cost: 400
Assize Level: 56 Ability
Effect: Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 400 to all nearby enemies.
Additional Effect: Restores own HP and the HP of nearby party members.
Cure Potency: 400
Additional Effect: Restores 5% of maximum MP
Range: 0y Radius: 15y
Cast: 0s Recast: 45s
MP Cost: 0
Thin Air Level: 58 Ability
Effect: Reduces MP cost of all spells by 100%.
Range: 0y Radius: 0y
Cast: 0s Recast: 120s
MP Cost: 0
Afflatus Rapture Level: 60 Spell
Effect: Restores own HP and the HP of all nearby party members.
Cure Potency: 300
Additional Effect: Nourishes the Blood Lily
Healing Gauge Cost: 1 Lily
Range: 0y Radius: 20y
Cast: 0s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 1000
Stone III Level: 62 Spell
Effect: Deals earth damage with a potency of 190.
Range: 25y Radius: 0y
Cast: 2s Recast: 2.5s
*Stone IV Animation*
MP Cost: 400
Cure III Level: 64 Spell
Effect: Restores HP to target and all party members nearby target.
Cure Potency: 700
Trait Effect: When HP is restored to initial target, generate 1 Lily.
Cure Mastery Cost: 2 Stacks
This action cannot be set to the hotbar — Replaces Cure/Cure II when there are 2 stacks of Cure Mastery. Stacks are consumed upon use.
Range: 30y Radius: 15y
Cast: 2s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 400
Divine Benison Level: 66 Ability
Effect: Creates a barrier around self or target party member that absorbs damage equivalent to a heal of 500 potency.
Duration: 15s
Range: 30y Radius: 0y
Cast: 0y Recast: 30s
MP Cost: 0
Plenary Indulgence Level: 70 Ability
Effect: Generate 3 Lilies and Max Stacks of Cure Mastery.
Range: 0y Radius: 0y
Cast: 0y Recast: 120s
MP Cost: 0
Dia Level: 72 Spell
Effect: Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 100.
Additional Effect: Unaspected damage over time.
Potency: 60
Duration: 30s
Range: 25y Radius: 0y
Cast: 0s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 400
Glare Level: 72 Spell
Effect: Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 210.
Range: 25y Radius: 0y
Cast: 2s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 400
Banish Level: 72 Spell
Effect: Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 450.
Range: 30y Radius: 0y
Cast: 0s Recast: 60s
MP Cost: 0
Afflatus Agony Level: 74 Spell
Effect: Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 1200.
Can only be executed when the Blood Lily is in full bloom.
Trait Effect: Applies 3 stacks of Efflorescence to target.
Range: 25y Radius: 0y
Cast: 0s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 0
Temperance Level: 80 Ability
Effect: Reduces the healing gauge cost of Afflatus Solace and Afflatus Rapture by 1 Lily, their MP cost to 0, and enables their use while 0 Lilies are present.
Additional Effect: Temporarily halts the nourishment of the Blood Lily.
Additional Effect: Increases healing magic potency by 20%.
Range: 0y Radius: 0y
Cast: 0s Recast: 120s
MP Cost: 0
Efflorescence Level: 82 Spell
Effect: Plant a seed on a target enemy that will blossom when that target is attacked with Glare, Dia, Banish, or Holy; The effects of the blossom change depending on the spell that triggered the effect.
Duration: 15s
Glare Effect: Deals earth damage with a potency of 250.
Dia Effect: Deals wind damage with a potency of 120 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Additional Effect: Wind damage over time.
Potency: 60
Duration: 30s
Range: 8y
Banish Effect: Deals water damage with a potency of 400.
Additional Effect: Generates 1 Lily
Holy Effect: Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 200 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Range: 8y
Range: 25y Radius: 0y
Cast: 0s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 400
Cure IV Level: 84 Spell
Effect: Restores HP to target and all party members nearby target.
Cure Potency: 1000
Trait Effect: When HP is restored to initial target, generate 1 Lily.
Cure Mastery Cost: 3 Stacks
This action cannot be set to the hotbar — Replaces Cure/Cure II/Cure III when there are 3 stacks of Cure Mastery.
Range: 30y Radius: 15y
Cast: 2s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 400
Holy II Level 86 Spell
Effect: Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 160 to all nearby enemies.
Range: 0y Radius: 8y
Cast: 2.5s Recast: 2.5s
MP Cost: 600
Undying Wish Level: 90 Ability
Effect: Blesses self and nearby party members with Reraise. A party member who’s HP is reduced to 0 while under this effect is immediately revived to a weakened state.
Duration: 10s
Range: 0y Radius: 20y
Cast: 0s Recast: 180s
MP Cost: 0
TRAITS
Maim and Mend Level: 20
Increases base action damage and HP restoration by 10%.
Secret of the Lily Level: 30
Adds a Lily to your Healing Gauge for every 30 seconds you are engaged in combat, up to a maximum of 3.
Cure Mastery Level: 30
Generates stacks of Cure Mastery when Afflatus Solace is used. Upgrades Cure to Cure II while 1 Stack is present.
Maximum Stacks: 1
Maim and Mend II Level: 40
Increases base action damage and HP restoration by 30%.
Aero Mastery Level: 46
Upgrades Aero to Aero II.
Stone Mastery Level: 52
Upgrades Stone to Stone II.
Transcendent Afflatus Level: 54
Adds a Blood Lily to the Healing Gauge that blooms after three uses of Afflatus Solace or Afflatus Rapture.
Stone Mastery II Level: 62
Upgrades Stone II to Stone III.
Cure Mastery II Level: 64
Increases maximum stacks of Cure Mastery to 2. Upgrades Cure II to Cure III while 2 Stacks are present.
Stone Mastery III Level: 72
Upgrades Stone III to Glare.
Aero Mastery II Level: 72
Upgrades Aero II to Dia.
Water Mastery Level: 72
Upgrades Water to Banish
Enhanced Asylum Level: 78
Adds an additional effect to Asylum that increases HP recovery via healing actions by 10%.
Cure Mastery III Level: 84
Increases maximum stacks of Cure Mastery to 3. Upgrades Cure III to Cure IV while 3 Stacks are present.
Holy Mastery Level: 86
Upgrades Holy to Holy II.
Efflorescent Blood Lily Level: 88
Causes Afflatus Misery and Afflatus Agony to apply 3 stacks of Efflorescence to their initial target.
EDIT: Skillset has been updated based on the conversations of the chat.
Another WHM Redesign - 6.0 Possibilities
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04-14-2020, 10:07 PMty_taurusAnother WHM Redesign - 6.0 Possibilities
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04-15-2020, 02:46 AMJaelommiss
I like the look of Water and Banish. It's unclear whether they are oGCD or GCD. Water's MP cost makes me think it's and instant GCD with a long CD.
Efflorescence is a great looking ability, though I think it would be benefit from making it GCD and attaching some damage to it. WHM really can't support an extra weave every 15 secs. Whether the damage gain is worth clipping Glare will depend entirely on how long the animation is. Maybe instead of a GCD with damage make it a GCD that nourishes the B.Lily when the effect triggers? That's worth 300 Pot and might be too strong when combined with its additional damage effects. It'd match thematically if nothing else.
I'm not going to go into too much detail about why it's a really bad idea to have the Afflatus spells automatically replace the regular spells as soon as a Lily is acquired. It largely comes down to eliminating resource management as a player choice. If a healer wants to heal a tank after a buster they should have the option to use Cure II in order to save a Lily for upcoming forced movement.
Having GCD heals speed up Lily generation is an interesting idea, but as you have implemented it this won't give WHMs any incentive to use GCD healing spells. It's almost as much of a trap as using Cure I to proc Freecure. I want to be clear that I like the idea, but the execution would need significant reworking.
You've reduced Glare to 250 Potency, so I'll use that as a comparison.
Afflatus Agony spends a Blood Lily to deal 1200 Pot. Three Afflatus spells to prepare the B.Lily and casting the spell itself gives 300 Pot per GCD. This is a 200 Pot gain over glare for 90 secs of Lily generation. We can equate one second of Lily generation with 200/90 = 2.22 Pot damage gain over Glare.
Plugging that value into Cure, Medica, and Cure II we see that they give 13.3, 6.7, and 6.7 Pot respectively. Comparing that to the 250 Pot that Glare offers we see that Cure I is a 237 Pot loss. Medica and Cure II are a 243 Pot loss.
To break even each of those casts would need to generate 250 Pot worth of Lilies. This would require 250/200*90 secs = 112.5 seconds of Lily generation. The cap on Lilies would need to be increased to four to prevent overcappinig. Alternatively, the damage of Afflatus Agony could be increased. To find the balance point for Cure I we solve x = (250*90/6)+1000, giving a potency of 4750. Medica and Cure II would require a potency of 8500. That's starting to pass into LB territory. Both potency difference and Lily generation time could be modified along the line x = (22500/y)+1000, where x is the potency and y is the Lily generation time awarded by a spell. If either values are below what the formula gives then the GCD heal will be a dps loss compared to Glare.
Best case use of Cure, Medica, and Cure II would be spamming them during downtime in fights and ignoring them in favour of Glare everywhere else. This assumes that healing burdens do not increase significantly and that the healing itself is not valuable.
I don't think it's a bad idea to give GCD spells a way to generate Lilies. Personally, I'd make Glare restore 3 secs of Lily if used on a target under the affect of Dia, and have Cure, Medica, and Cure II generate a full Lily to partially mitigate the opportunity cost of healing. This would reward WHMs who are meaningfully contributing. -
04-15-2020, 04:05 AMty_taurusWow, thanks so much for the response and the detailed breakdown. You make some really great points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaelommiss
Regarding the Water/Banish, I was thinking it could be a long CD Spell like the reworked Egi Assaults on Summoner or Standard Step for Dancer. It could just be an oGCD ability and it would be fine, but seeing as it would match Stone and Aero in theme, I kinda like the idea of it just being classified as a Spell.
I really like the idea of Efflorescence--an ability that changes depending on the DPS spells you use on it. With it being on a 15 second cool down, the optimal order would look like:...
Eff. + Banish -> Eff. + Dia -> Eff. + Glare/Holy -> Eff. + Dia -> Eff. + Banish...
If I change it to 30 seconds it would change to...
Eff. + Banish -> Eff. + Dia -> Eff. + Banish -> Eff. + Dia... and Glare/Holy would never get used. I could extend the DoT duration on the Dia effect to 60 seconds to remedy that, but that's a pretty long DoT. We've never gone passed 30 seconds. This is if it's left as an ability.
Your idea of making it a spell that also Nourishes the Blood Lily is an interesting concept. Rather than Glare Spamming, you'd essentially have a combo of Efflorescence -> Glare, but with the caveat that you'd also be using Efflorescence with the other spells when they apply as well. To make it desirable, having it Nourish the Blood Lily is also pretty interesting, but as you said, it's extremely powerful. That's kinda what it already does when you use it with Banish, since that generates a Lily. I'd hate to make the nourishment a proc chance because then you're rolling the dice on whether it's a DPS gain or loss outside of using it with Banish. Perhaps the solution is just making it a Healer's Combo, and up the damage on the effects? 300 Potency for use with Glare, 100 Potency + 50 Pot DoT with Dia, 200 Potency with Holy, 150 Potency + Lily Generation with Banish?
You make an interesting point regarding Afflatus spells vs regular spells... At the moment, this applies to Cure, Cure II, Medica, Medica II, Regen, and Raise. That could be a lot of extra buttons if they all are moved onto their own slot... That's 28 buttons to 22 if they overlap the existing spells, and then throw in the cross class actions for 34 buttons (33 if you ignore Repose). I imagine the most expendable are Af. Regen and Raise. I mainly wanted to work toward this idea that your GCD heals would all be able to either work with or benefit from the Lily system, but that isn't necessary, per se.
Lastly, I see what you mean with the current Lily speed ups being not really worthwhile in the long run. Making Cure, Medica, and Cure II generate a full lily with use also seems like quite a bit, because then each of them is effectively granting 300 Potency. It would obviously need the caveat that the generation only occurs when HP is restored, and with that set up, DPS tools aren't completely thrown out off the equation since you'll use them while everyone's HP is full but immediately switch to healing as soon as someone takes damage.
You also have to think about how you could probably generate all 3 Lilies in certain phases of the fight. I'm not sure whether I love this or think it's a bad idea, tbh. I might be inclined to propose that Cure generate a Lily, but Medica and Cure II only speed up Lily generation by 15 seconds to give players more incentives to use Cure over the other two. Medica will still be better at healing your team entirely based on time required, and Cure II will still have usefulness after tank busters if the Tank needs to be healed. -
04-15-2020, 06:54 AMLeidiriv
I have to say I love the idea of Efflorescence, but for some reason I've always pictured WHM getting Banish as a "Fire IV" type of ability, with a major MP cost and somewhere between 400-500 potency along with maybe a longer cast time (not sure). Expanding the uses for lilies is definitely interesting though, but I agree with Jaelommiss that the lily refresh on the GCD heals is a tad undertuned. Also I feel like the loss of Cure III is very unfortunate, given its major role in burst AoE healing for raids.
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04-15-2020, 07:09 AMJaelommissI agree that a GCD spell would probably be best. It might be a good idea to make Banish cost some MP instead of being free. Either 400 or 600 would be fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
Simply boosting the damage for all three affects works well enough. Having it worth more for less frequent spells adds complexity to the class in an incredibly efficient way. The numbers you suggest look good apart from Banish.Quote:
I really like the idea of Efflorescence--an ability that changes depending on the DPS spells you use on it. With it being on a 15 second cool down, the optimal order would look like:...
Eff. + Banish -> Eff. + Dia -> Eff. + Glare/Holy -> Eff. + Dia -> Eff. + Banish...
If I change it to 30 seconds it would change to...
Eff. + Banish -> Eff. + Dia -> Eff. + Banish -> Eff. + Dia... and Glare/Holy would never get used. I could extend the DoT duration on the Dia effect to 60 seconds to remedy that, but that's a pretty long DoT. We've never gone passed 30 seconds. This is if it's left as an ability.
Your idea of making it a spell that also Nourishes the Blood Lily is an interesting concept. Rather than Glare Spamming, you'd essentially have a combo of Efflorescence -> Glare, but with the caveat that you'd also be using Efflorescence with the other spells when they apply as well. To make it desirable, having it Nourish the Blood Lily is also pretty interesting, but as you said, it's extremely powerful. That's kinda what it already does when you use it with Banish, since that generates a Lily. I'd hate to make the nourishment a proc chance because then you're rolling the dice on whether it's a DPS gain or loss outside of using it with Banish. Perhaps the solution is just making it a Healer's Combo, and up the damage on the effects? 300 Potency for use with Glare, 100 Potency + 50 Pot DoT with Dia, 200 Potency with Holy, 150 Potency + Lily Generation with Banish?
Consider:
Eff > Banish > Spend Lily is 150 + 350 + 300 (1/4 of 1200 by spending Lily) = 800
Glare > Glare > Banish is 250 + 250 + 350 = 850
Eff > Glare > Banish is 300 + 250 + 350 = 900
The extra Lily is worth 50 Pot from turning a Glare (250) into 1/4 of Afflatus Agony (1200/4 = 300). To break even with Glare it needs at least another 100 Pot. I think it would be a great opportunity to give WHM some rdps by putting 5% vuln on the boss for 10 secs. I'm not a fan of one-button raid buffs, but I think this could work because it's effectively a spell combo that needs to be kept aligned to burst windows. If you'd rather take the rdps approach I'd suggest 250 Pot + Lily to give it +50 over Eff>Glare.
The 250+Lily approach gives an opener of Glare (prepull) > Eff > Dia, then Eff > Banish at 15 secs for raid buffs.
If the 5% vuln approach is taken then the opener would be Glare (prepull) > Dia > Glare x2 (Delay to raid buffs) > Eff > Banish. Here Banish would be cast at 10 secs, but adding or removing Glares would let it shift around based on when the party can best use the damage boost.
I took a closer look at how you set up the Afflatus spells to work. You're right that it would be a lot of spells, though I don't think that it's an unreasonable amount. I play AST and have 32 spells and abilities bound to my main three hotbars. I also have an auxiliary hotbar for some other things. Upon a closer look there are a few things I would adjust or remove with how you set those up.Quote:
You make an interesting point regarding Afflatus spells vs regular spells... At the moment, this applies to Cure, Cure II, Medica, Medica II, Regen, and Raise. That could be a lot of extra buttons if they all are moved onto their own slot... That's 28 buttons to 22 if they overlap the existing spells, and then throw in the cross class actions for 34 buttons (33 if you ignore Repose). I imagine the most expendable are Af. Regen and Raise. I mainly wanted to work toward this idea that your GCD heals would all be able to either work with or benefit from the Lily system, but that isn't necessary, per se.
First and foremost is Afflatus Raise. No cast time and removing weakness is excessive. Barring the absolute worst situations no cast time alone is venturing into RDM levels of raise shenanigans. RDM at least needs to cast a spell to proc Dualcast. Removing weakness is incredibly potent. If we equate -25% weakness to -25% damage done and assume someone dealing 12k dps, that's worth 3k dps for two minutes plus 8 secs at 100% by eliminating the cast time. (3000*120)+(12000*8) = 456k damage gained. I'd remove this entirely. If it must stay it should cost a Blood Lily at the absolute minimum.
Next I'd look at Regen and Afflatus Regen. I'd remove Regen entirely and drop Afflatus Regen to level 35. Increase the duration to 24 or 30 secs, remove the aoe component, cost a Lily, nourish the Blood Lily. This alone will make Cure I/II more necessary. Maybe reduce the Potency to 150 if it's a 30 sec hot. I'll admit that I'm incredibly biased towards finite healing resources and that it heavily influenced this.
I would also remove Afflatus Cure II and Afflatus Medica II. Both suffer from being procced by RNG. This works fine for damage because it averages out over a ten minute pull, but is a serious problem for healing. With how potent healing and incoming damage is in this game you can't rely on it averaging out over a run. If healing was designed like a leaky bucket (see WoW and most other MMOs) then it work fine, but in FFXIV it's closer to someone kicking over a bucket and trying to fill it back up with a fire hose.
RNG procced healing is also completely worthless in an optimized environment. When planning out heals you can only plot out resources that you're certain will be available. 30% proc chances means that there's a 0.7ⁿ chance that Affltus Cure II / Medica II won't be available, where n is the number of times you used Aff. Cure I / Med I previously in the fight (assuming the proc lasts indefinitely). If you really want to keep those effects you could make them automatic upgrades to Aff. Cure I / Med I. It's free healing that can't be relied on in optimized environment, but has no cost, uses no extra buttons, and could save a GCD heal in panic or solo heal situations. Maybe the proc could be 15 secs towards the next Lily? Or a 10 buff on everyone healed that restores 50% of the original amount when it expires? A 12 second buff that restores 10% of the amount healed every tick?
A full Lily per Cure would still be a dps loss compared to Glare spam.Quote:
Lastly, I see what you mean with the current Lily speed ups being not really worthwhile in the long run. Making Cure, Medica, and Cure II generate a full lily with use also seems like quite a bit, because then each of them is effectively granting 300 Potency. It would obviously need the caveat that the generation only occurs when HP is restored, and with that set up, DPS tools aren't completely thrown out off the equation since you'll use them while everyone's HP is full but immediately switch to healing as soon as someone takes damage.
You also have to think about how you could probably generate all 3 Lilies in certain phases of the fight. I'm not sure whether I love this or think it's a bad idea, tbh. I might be inclined to propose that Cure generate a Lily, but Medica and Cure II only speed up Lily generation by 15 seconds to give players more incentives to use Cure over the other two. Medica will still be better at healing your team entirely based on time required, and Cure II will still have usefulness after tank busters if the Tank needs to be healed.
Consider:
Cure x3 > Afflatus Cure x3 > Afflatus Agony is 1200 Pot for 7 GCDs (171 Pot per GCD)
Glare x7 is 250*7 = 1750 Pot in the same time
The balancing factor is that even after getting a Lily it still takes another GCD to use it to nourish the Blood Lily. I can definitely see why that might be considered too much compensation for using those spells. The question then becomes how much of a refund should the WHM get for GCD healing? Would it be fair to award 30 secs of Lily for Cure I / Med I and 15 secs for Cure II / Med II? Eliminating any rewards for using healing GCDs elevates the skill ceiling (I'd argue this is a good result), but the increased complexity has the potential to raise the skill ceiling in a different way.
In any case, this system looks like it has more thought than anything the designers have produced to date. It'd certainly be more interesting to play with. -
04-15-2020, 08:26 AMty_taurusI already do consider an MP Cost for Water/Banish actually. I think it would be necessary as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaelommiss
I see your point with the numbers on Eff uses. Seeing the numbers and how Eff > Glare turns into 1/4th an Afflatus Agony has me a little worried. A big part of the idea is to try and make White Mage the healer who's rDPS comes from burst damage gated by healing--something balances the "Green DPS" situation with more emphasis on GCD healing. Perhaps it would be better if Efflorescence also had a longer CD? If it was a spell on a 15 second cool down for example, it slows down a bit, keeps Eff > Glare in check, and I think would feel like a bit less pressure on players. Although adding that CD also adds a different kind of pressure to ensure you're using it whenever it's up... Maybe I'm overthinking this concern on Efflorescence. I do love the idea though, especially for making Solo questing as White Mage a bit more fun and less button-mashy.
You're absolutely right on Afflatus Raise. It was mostly a decision made to try and make all of the GCD healers transform to use Lilies, but it's really not necessary for an effective kit. Regarding the other Afflatus tools, I think the result is really to take all this Afflatus Cure/Medica/Etc. and revert it back to Afflatus Solace and Rapture. I feel like Afflatus Solace would still need something though, since it struggles to find opportunities where Afflatus Rapture or Cure II aren't better options. Perhaps Afflatus Cure II can stick around as Afflatus Solace II as an oGCD free heal.. but it's a 100% proc from Afflatus Solace, one that sticks around until you use it.
In this circumstance, Solace becomes a tool that unlocks what is essentially the removed Tetragrammaton, so you might want to have that accessible at times, and thus will want to find times to use Solace? Afflatus Medica II can be removed though, and probably Cure III could return. As for Regen, I like the idea of removing normal Regen and connecting it to the Lilies. My biggest concern would be how the WHM community would feel. Regen's a pretty useful and powerful tool, after all.
As for the Lily rewards for GCD healing... It's a tough call. It seems really excessive to just hand out Lilies for casting Cure/Cure II/Medica, but there's also a line between what is a true incentive to want to prioritize healing with GCDs outside of afflatus spells, and what's simply "DPS forgiveness?" Regardless, Cure needs something. Thematically, it should be your staple healing tool, yet we avoid it like the plague in favor of every other healing tool in the kit. if Regen is now exclusive to Lilies though, that does place more pressure on WHMs to consider it over the MP-burning Cure II.
I'm not sure if you saw, but I did add onto Plenary Indulgence more Lily time shaving--1 second per target with Confession healed. Now especially, I'm not fond of the tool. I kind of hate Plenary because it feels so excessive. What are your thoughts on it? -
04-15-2020, 04:35 PMJaelommissMost jobs with burst windows have low throughput most of the time and multiple strong abilities that are all used together. How would you feel is Aff. Misery/Agony applied three stacks of the Eff debuff to the target? Aff. Agony would then deal 1200 Pot in damage and a further 900 from three Eff stacks used on Glare.Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
Assuming one minute per B. Lily and 24 GCDs per minute you would have:
Eff x4, Dia x2, Banish x1, [spend Lily] x3, Aff. Agony x1
That's 11/24 GCDs. Supposing each Cure/Medica generates 15 secs of Lily you will need two of them.
That leaves 11 Glares per minute. Four of them will be buffed by Eff. To keep the same Pot/minute we need to remove 900 Pot. Taking a straight 80 Pot from Glare would leave WHM incredibly weak until gaining Aff. Misery/Agony, though you reduced Misery to L54 so that's less of a problem. If the bonus for using Glare with Eff drops below Glare's Pot then it becomes a dps loss to use Eff with Glare. Perhaps drop Glare to 200 Pot and Eff > Glare to 250 would work? That's a reduction of (11*50)+(4*50) = 750 Pot which matches the 3*250 = 750 that would be gained from adding three stacks of Eff.
Balancing this depends entirely on how often a Blood Lily is supposed to be gained. Every 60 secs sounds like a good idea to me because it'll align well with raid buffs. Perhaps instead of awarding a n seconds of Lilies it would be better to gain +y% Lily generation for (1/y%)n seconds? This way a minimum time per B. Lily can be implemented. Using +50% would give 60 secs per B. Lily if the increase can be maintained at all times. +100% would reduce that to 45 secs. If duration from spells is additive then a maximum cap would be required.
The more that time between B. Lilies is reduced, the less that Glare will be used. If Cure I awards all three Lilies at once there is a minimum time per B. Lily of 30 secs.
0.0 — Eff
2.5 — Dia
5.0 — Cure
7.5 — [Spend Lily] x3
15.0 — Eff
17.5 — Glare
20.0 — [Spend B. Lily]
22.5 — Glare x3
Ends at 30.0
The times listed correspond to the start of the listed casts. Banish would be used in place of the 17.5 Glare. 30 secs per B. Lily gives seven Glares per minute. This feels far too frequent to me. I only worked it out for comparison's sake.
Why not remove Cure II entirely? You're right that it has massive design overlap with Solace. If Lilies are going to generated more frequently and you want to use Cure to make that happen, then is there any downside to getting rid of Cure II? If you want to keep it then I'd suggest making Solace apply Benison to the target. Maybe reduce the strength of either the heal or the shield. Around 1000 Pot combined should be fine. Having 100% chance to unlock Aff. Cure II would definitely work instead. As long as it's not RNG then it can be reliably planned around. If Regen is converted to a Lily spell then I'd make Solace around 75% of Regen's cumulative potency.Quote:
You're absolutely right on Afflatus Raise. It was mostly a decision made to try and make all of the GCD healers transform to use Lilies, but it's really not necessary for an effective kit. Regarding the other Afflatus tools, I think the result is really to take all this Afflatus Cure/Medica/Etc. and revert it back to Afflatus Solace and Rapture. I feel like Afflatus Solace would still need something though, since it struggles to find opportunities where Afflatus Rapture or Cure II aren't better options. Perhaps Afflatus Cure II can stick around as Afflatus Solace II as an oGCD free heal.. but it's a 100% proc from Afflatus Solace, one that sticks around until you use it.
In this circumstance, Solace becomes a tool that unlocks what is essentially the removed Tetragrammaton, so you might want to have that accessible at times, and thus will want to find times to use Solace? Afflatus Medica II can be removed though, and probably Cure III could return. As for Regen, I like the idea of removing normal Regen and connecting it to the Lilies. My biggest concern would be how the WHM community would feel. Regen's a pretty useful and powerful tool, after all.
I pulled up a couple WHM logs from E8S. My cohealer used 66 GCD heals + Tetra over the 14 minute fight. My friend used 49. Let's call average use somewhere around 50 GCDs. I included tetra in those numbers because you removed it and it'll need to be replaced with a GCD heal. Accounting for downtime and rounding up gives an average of 5 GCDs per minute.Quote:
As for the Lily rewards for GCD healing... It's a tough call. It seems really excessive to just hand out Lilies for casting Cure/Cure II/Medica, but there's also a line between what is a true incentive to want to prioritize healing with GCDs outside of afflatus spells, and what's simply "DPS forgiveness?" Regardless, Cure needs something. Thematically, it should be your staple healing tool, yet we avoid it like the plague in favor of every other healing tool in the kit. if Regen is now exclusive to Lilies though, that does place more pressure on WHMs to consider it over the MP-burning Cure II.
This represents the upper maximum of necessary healing outside of Ultimate. Other than solo healing or brute force healing through people standing in aoes I can't see more healing than this ever being required.
Assuming we aim for 60 secs per B.Lily, there will be three Lily heals per minute. That leaves 2 GCDs for Cure/Cure II/Medica. If they each generate 15 secs of Lily (or +50% generation for 30 secs) then we get the three Lilies per minute. A third GCD heal would require for 10 secs Lily generation / +50% for 20 secs.
I think I would use +50% for 30 secs, to a cap of 60 secs. This rewards using two GCDs per minute on top of Lilies and gives them an average potency of (2100+3*250)/6 = 475 Pot per GCD. Heals used in excess of this wouldn't award anything. Optimal play would involve using those GCD heals even if no one is hurt to ensure that an extra Lily is generated every minute.
For comparison, those two WHMs used 28 and 31 GCD+Tetra heals in E6S this week. Both pulls were 9 mins. Three Lilies per minute would have them needing only a third of a non-Lily GCD (on average) per minute. More B. Lilies means more normal Lilies means less non-Lily healing is required.
I would revert Plenary to how it was at the end of Stormblood. Medica I/II, Cure III all generate a Confession stack on whoever they heal for 30 (60?) secs. Using Plenary converts those stacks into HP. I wouldn't have a problem if those stacks also conferred some time towards a Lily. I'm not sure if Aff. Rapture should generate stacks or not. A Lily heal generating Lilies is going to make it more desirable if it'll save a Cure/Medica.Quote:
I'm not sure if you saw, but I did add onto Plenary Indulgence more Lily time shaving--1 second per target with Confession healed. Now especially, I'm not fond of the tool. I kind of hate Plenary because it feels so excessive. What are your thoughts on it?
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04-15-2020, 08:41 PMty_taurus
Okay, so I've been thinking a bit about a lot of the conversations, and I've had a few ideas to clean up the concept based on them. The thing is, this might be a tad crazy. Bear with me and if I'm going in the wrong direction, pull me back in.
GCD Healing Tools:
Cure
Medica
Afflatus Solace
Afflatus Rapture
Raise
Afflatus Solace comes at level 30 in place of Cure II. Cure and Medica generate 1 Lily when used at this time in addition to the normal 30 seconds per Lily generation. Cure II and Cure III will return at later levels. The way it works is that Afflatus Solace grants a stack of Cure Mastery when used. At 1 Stack, Cure upgrades to Cure II, and at 2, it upgrades to Cure III (when those spells are learned). Cure II and Cure III are essentially the same as in vanilla now, but at the 400 MP cost of Cure (and still generate 1 Lily). When used, the stacks are consumed and you go back to Cure I. Solace fuels more potent healing while Rapture continues to be the go-to GCD AoE heal for raid damage.
oGCD Healing Tools:
Regen
Regen II
Benediction
Asylum
Assize
Medica II goes away, but Regen II basically does the same thing. Both it and Regen could work off 60 second cool downs, granting a potent Regen for 30 seconds. Keep things simple.
Support Healing Tools:
Thin Air
Divine Benison
Plenary Indulgence
Temperance
Undying Wish
Main thing is Plenary Indulgence. Let's simplify this tool. Instead of the current or old effects, it's now a self-buff that grants 3 Lilies and 2 stacks of Cure Mastery per 120 seconds. Temperance continues to be the same changed effect I have for it: 20% Healing buff plus unlimited use of Afflatus Heals (i.e. they don't consume Lilies but also don't Nourish the Blood Lily at this time). I realize I forgot to add a duration for the effect in the initial post. Let's say it's a 15 second buff.
DPS Tools:
Stone/Glare
Aero/Dia
Water/Banish
Holy
Afflatus Misery
Afflatus Agony
Efflorescence
Let's stick with Efflorescence just being a Spell without an unusual cool down. Glare sits at 200 Potency, Eff > Glare is a 250 Potency attack. Eff > Banish sits at a 200 Potency attack + 1 Lily. Afflatus Misery and Agony apply 3 stacks of Efflorescence to the main target.
Only thing not listed so far is Presence of Mind, which can support healing or DPS really, though I suppose Thin Air can do the same. -
04-17-2020, 06:34 AMRosa_Frandlia
I noticed a change not bolded, but one that I would welcome. Recast on Presence of Mind is currently 150 seconds so it doesn't line up with well anything. Changing it to 120 makes so much sense as I usually delay thin air to line up with PoM.
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04-17-2020, 06:46 PMty_taurusThanks for the catch. I updated the ability list based on the conversation I had with @Jaelommiss as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia
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04-17-2020, 10:17 PMJirah
I always love these super elaborate dissection of a Job and it’s fundamentals. Props. But Healers shouldn’t worry about DPS and White Mage of all jobs should be a mellow healer with a few attacks. If anything Scholar was known as the offensive healer. But I’ll take Banish over Glare anyday tbh. I’ll also take that variant of Auto-Res with Undying wish too if abit OP. Water is a enigma holding off on that for Geomancers holy trio of Earth Wind Water
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04-17-2020, 11:39 PMty_taurusThe mentality that Healers shouldn't worry about DPS at all is not really realistic for FF14. Raid damage will never be high enough to the point where healers won't be given time to DPS because the developers want to make healing as approachable as possible, and that means giving room to breath between moments of high damage. This way, less skilled healers don't drown in the damage and find themselves unable to catch up. Damage high enough to make us unable to DPS means no room for error as any missteps will cause you to come crashing down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jirah
Additionally, healing is a pass or fail responsibility--either you keep the team alive or you don't. There will always be ways to optimize your healing performance, and your ability to contribute to rDPS, either directly or indirectly, is the way to show off your mastery of healing. Just keeping the team alive doesn't make you a master healer, it just means you're doing your job, but a healer that can do that AND shorten the boss fight? That's a master healer.
The point of this build is not to deny that fact, but to try and do something different so that your rDPS doesn't have to come from mindlessly spamming Glare whenever possible. In fact, the point of this build is actually to give the WHM more emphasis on GCD healing. By gating potent DPS in bursts behind GCD heals, we're pumping value into those healing spells beyond just your pass or fail job. Right now, GCD healing is treated as a last resort. Ideally, you should never have to cast Cure or Medica or even Aff. Solace/Rapture. Currently, Aff. Misery is a DPS loss compared to Glare. This just means it's a form of DPS forgiveness for when you're forced to GCD heal, but by taking power away from Glare and putting it into other places, including a new Afflatus Agony, suddenly you want to find reasons to use Aff. Solace/Rapture when you have Lilies available.
Would this not be better for players that want to DPS less? -
04-18-2020, 12:07 AMYusiKhaWhether or not we should is another discussion for another time. Fact of the matter is that the game mechanics make healer DPS mandatory, and so we treat it as mandatory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jirah