Droprate unbalanced

Just heard from some friends they are thinking about quitting FFXIV cuss they do so much end game its very stressing if they never get any of the drops. I can understand them because I'm what you call an unlucky person. I only get 1 good drop out of every 20 drops. Can't SE introduce a system that increases the chance of getting something good if you haven't gotten a certain item yet? So less chance for someone that already got it/something recently, compared to someone that hasn't gotten it/anything.

Breaking news - people got screwed by RNG.

More at 11.

no /character

What excatly are you talking about?

For most items there are already certain fail-safes in place and some items are intentionally rare (mostly glamour/vaniety items like mounts, minions, music, galmour-gear etc.)

Failsafes that are already in place include...
...automatic drops from all leveling dungeons since HW (one item for the job you're on; cant get items you have in your inventory, so after a maximum of 12 runs you'll have the whole set even if you get extremly unlucky with chests)
...tomestones and crafted gear as alternatives to raid drops
...people not being able to roll on certain items if they already own them, like primal mounts
...a weekly limit on loot from raids
...a wider variety of drops (and more drops!) from NM raids - instead of only getting accessories from the first and second tier, being able to get them from all etc.
...EX-primals dropping tokens that can be exchanged for weapons and, after a while, even the mounts
...Savage raids dropping tokens that can be exchanged for gear (aswell as the "new" coffer system that is infact better for everyone, even if you might feel differently)
...a lot of things being able to be traded on the marketboard
...making crafting so easy that crafted gear is super cheap

In terms of gear there are quite a a few ways to alternative gear - if you're refering to the NM raids and people outrolling your friends on loot there: The crafted gear has the same ilvl and tomestone gear is a thing - and as long as your friends arent overly intrested in "difficult" endgame, they can even get the ilvl470 tomestone sets. While not getting a drop can be frustrating, its also not as if not getting those drops is hindering their progress.
As for glamour items: Well, those are "nice to have" or even "want, want, want... NEEEED!" but again not something that will make playing the game impossible.

I mentioned all the failsafes that are already in place - and I certainly dont agree with your suggested one. If everyone in a party puts the same amount of work into that one clear that now drops the loot, everyone in that party deserves an equal chance of rolling on it. Why does someone deserve a better chance of getting their loot because they got unlucky a few times? Thats completly irrelevant to the other 3/7/23 people in that run who put in the same amount of effort - and it would be unfair to them aswell.

There is also one last and sometimes easy solution to this problem: Depending on the content in question, making your own, full party and setting lootrules that ensure that everyone gets what they want, isnt to difficult and might be quicker than running the content 20 times.

Again... not sure what you're refering to and whats so frustrating for your friends, but we have a safety net already and your solution would only create more frustration.

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Originally Posted by SXTC

Just heard from some friends they are thinking about quitting FFXIV cuss they do so much end game its very stressing if they never get any of the drops. I can understand them because I'm what you call an unlucky person. I only get 1 good drop out of every 20 drops. Can't SE introduce a system that increases the chance of getting something good if you haven't gotten a certain item yet? So less chance for someone that already got it/something recently, compared to someone that hasn't gotten it/anything.

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So much endgame? The raids all have coffers, the trials all have totems. What exactly are they trying to get?

Huh? I'm confused as to what you are referencing.

Most things that matter have a token system attached to get you a guaranteed drop if you have bad luck rolling.

My friend just told me I forgot to mention that it's mainly an issue at savage where everyone gets to need all the items. So the frustrating part is that some people that do almost nothing run off with the drops while the people that do the most get nothing over and over. RNG or not.. this should be adressed as it discourages players to stick around. The freeloaders/selfish people will ofcourse love this system as it gives them an edge to get something they haven't earned... but I doubt SE is aiming to please only those.

And I realize barely anyone will still want to play if they knew they were no longer able to optain more items. But giving a % boost to those that haven't gotten it yet that week would be a sollution for end game content, and ontop of that... its fair and just.

I do feel like it would be nice to have some kind additional "pity" mechanic in place if a player repeatedly fails to win any loot, because eight weeks is really not a reasonable amount of time to have to wait to get a single piece of gear from the last fight in a tier if you get RNG screwed repeatedly.

Even something like an extra book for failing to win anything would be nice.

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Originally Posted by SXTC

My friend just told me I forgot to mention that it's mainly an issue at savage where everyone gets to need all the items. So the frustrating part is that some people that do almost nothing run off with the drops while the people that do the most get nothing over and over. RNG or not.. this should be adressed as it discourages players to stick around. The freeloaders/selfish people will ofcourse love this system as it gives them an edge to get something they haven't earned... but I doubt SE is aiming to please only those.

And I realize barely anyone will still want to play if they knew they were no longer able to optain more items. But giving a % boost to those that haven't gotten it yet that week would be a sollution for end game content, and ontop of that... its fair and just.

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Anyone whos able to roll on loot in Savage hasnt gotten any loot in Savage that week. It has a weekly lockout AND a weekly token, that will allow you to eventually buy the gear piece you want.

I would also like to doubt that someone could get away with doing nothing at all and still see the group clear when it comes to current Savage raids.

And no, as I mentioned earlier its not "fair and just" that someone whos cleared the content a couple of times already gets a higher chance of getting loot than someone who put in just as much - or even more - effort than them to get the clear.

Our current Savage lootsystem is already an improvment: We got both the tokens and got rid of any useless drops. I know that a lot of people fail to understand that logic, because they're now rolling against 7 other - 1/8 chance to get the item you want - instead of either getting it straight away (if you're the only person able to roll on aiming stuff, you'll get it), but back then you first had to get the right piece to drop at all (1/7 chance) and if you were in a position of someone else being able to roll on it aswell (tanks and healers always are) your chance dropped to 1/14. Not to even mention the amount of loot that was just useless to everyone in the group and dropped to the floor (which was/is quite frustrating).

I'm always curious to hear suggestions that would make the system better that dont involve that people get their BiS in 2 weeks and then just drop that game - thats in no ones intrest. Not SE, because they do need/want our sub-money; not the community, because it will shrink the pool of people able/intrested in Savage even faster and I dare say not even in the intrest of the people gearing up in 2 weeks, because I would assume that they actually like playing the game and are out of meanigful content even faster now.

Your suggestion "punishes" the innocent who put in just as much work as those who were unlucky. It would probably lead to PFs that not only request two chests but also prohibit anyone with buffed loot-changes from entering. I can assure you that thats what I'd do. I'm okay losing out on a roll if its all indeed fair and square. But you not getting anything for weeks (except, you know, your token) shouldnt influence my chances of getting my loot when I put in just as much work as you did to earn it.

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Originally Posted by SXTC

My friend just told me I forgot to mention that it's mainly an issue at savage where everyone gets to need all the items. So the frustrating part is that some people that do almost nothing run off with the drops while the people that do the most get nothing over and over. RNG or not.. this should be adressed as it discourages players to stick around. The freeloaders/selfish people will ofcourse love this system as it gives them an edge to get something they haven't earned... but I doubt SE is aiming to please only those.

And I realize barely anyone will still want to play if they knew they were no longer able to optain more items. But giving a % boost to those that haven't gotten it yet that week would be a sollution for end game content, and ontop of that... its fair and just.

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Sounds like a pug problem, yea sucks always having to out roll 7 other people but that is where my sympathy ends(i've had to pug entire current tier so ik what it feels like). The hell this current tier has a good fair amount of mechanics that require all 8 party members alive and contributing, the Dps check for E7s add phase needs people to contribute sufficiently and E8s dps check holy hell help you if you cannot deal with mechanics and your rotation. Far as I can see and tell you have to contribute sufficiently or you will not clear everyone deserves the loot for killing a current savage fight you have a bias to your friends but do not diminish what other people do they earned it as much as your friends did.

There is a failsafe, books, I have yet to win head or foot wear next week (as I killed e6s 2nd week) I will be buying one of those pieces and the other most likely 6 weeks after that, not the end of the world I will get them eventually, do I deserve them more than anyone else hell to the kupo no, I ain't the best player but i'm good enough and still strive to improve more every week some days I flounder hard other days I do great, you friends are just whining that they can't have it now and because they haven't won an rng roll and they feel entitled to have better odds. Kupo kupo.

If that is what is the last straw they were thinking of stopping anyway because any other MMO has way way worse rng on good gear with no failsafe. Looks at BD and the enchantment system yea FFXIV stay away from that bs please.

And running it enough times there is bound to be a run where you run off with all the spoils.

Isn't it a bit presumptious to say that only the ones that get carried have the good rolls?

Everyone getting the same chance at getting a drop, you cant get more fair then that.
And like some others already mentioned you also get the guaranteed drop you can turn in for gear.

I do think it's genuinely stupid that the same player can win literally every single item that drops from a given boss due to there being no restrictions on how many items you can win.

The odds of winning something would be better if people had to actually pick and choose

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I do think it's genuinely stupid that the same player can win literally every single item that drops from a given boss due to there being no restrictions on how many items you can win.

The odds of winning something would be better if people had to actually pick and choose

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You mean a system similar to the NM one token per week limit?

What they did for the current savage loot system is good (chest for all class)
However, yes, sometime, you reach a point where you see some people getting one or two loot per reset while you get none for 5 weeks. (I only got my first piece from savage this week).
But that's not something that will make me quit however, that's a bit exagerated.
Gearing is not interesting and a bonus so it will be done through time with tomestone and weekly token anyway so.

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Originally Posted by SXTC

My friend just told me I forgot to mention that it's mainly an issue at savage where everyone gets to need all the items. So the frustrating part is that some people that do almost nothing run off with the drops while the people that do the most get nothing over and over. RNG or not.. this should be adressed as it discourages players to stick around. The freeloaders/selfish people will ofcourse love this system as it gives them an edge to get something they haven't earned... but I doubt SE is aiming to please only those.

And I realize barely anyone will still want to play if they knew they were no longer able to optain more items. But giving a % boost to those that haven't gotten it yet that week would be a sollution for end game content, and ontop of that... its fair and just.

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How are they freeloaders/selfish? Assuming everyone played at a relatively equal level and you weren't say, carrying a Samurai who died five times, then they contributed to the clear just as much as you did. How is it freeloading they want to roll on loot? Even if they already got something, that is simply the way RNG goes sometimes.

Frankly, I think they should just move to a personal loot system to avoid all this. Nevertheless, it isn't freeloading to roll on the coffers as it currently stands.

Your friend should have played during HW raiding then.
I remember I went a month without my SMN Book dropping from AS12 while my whole static had their weapon.
Or in SB when the same gosh dang nin gloves kept dropping every week and we didn't even have a ninja in the group.
Is that better? I don't think so.
At least we get books and you always have a chance to roll on something so nothing is ever useless to you.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Your friend should have played during HW raiding then.
I remember I went a month without my SMN Book dropping from AS12 while my whole static had their weapon.
Or in SB when the same gosh dang nin gloves kept dropping every week and we didn't even have a ninja in the group.
Is that better? I don't think so.
At least we get books and you always have a chance to roll on something so nothing is ever useless to you.

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Can always go back to the coil method. No books, no coffers, just RNG. We didn't see the Casting earrings from T9 drop until about halfway through Heavensward.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Can always go back to the coil method. No books, no coffers, just RNG. We didn't see the Casting earrings from T9 drop until about halfway through Heavensward.

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This. So your friend should be grateful honestly because if the dev's never changed anything, we'll be still in coil loot rules. Because then they'll really have something to quit over.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Can always go back to the coil method. No books, no coffers, just RNG. We didn't see the Casting earrings from T9 drop until about halfway through Heavensward.

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...also no "equal" places for your gear drops - play a tank? Grats, you can get your chest piece in T1 (if your lucky enough to see it drop and win against your co-tank! Play as monk and you better beat Twintania to have a chance to get your chest...

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I do think it's genuinely stupid that the same player can win literally every single item that drops from a given boss due to there being no restrictions on how many items you can win.

The odds of winning something would be better if people had to actually pick and choose

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Are you talking about first tier eden or nier? Those are uncapped. Current content does have restrictions to lootinv

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Originally Posted by Stepjam

Are you talking about first tier eden or nier? Those are uncapped. Current content does have restrictions to lootinv

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Eden's Verse Savage.

If they're gonna let people who are already in BiS roll on stuff they should at least limit how much they can win.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Eden's Verse Savage.

If they're gonna let people who are already in BiS roll on stuff they should at least limit how much they can win.

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Yeah no.... Run with a pre-made with set loot rules if you want 'fair chance' on things. Otherwise it's fair for anyone who worked on the fight to roll what they can. If you don't discuss loot before hand, it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Eden's Verse Savage.

If they're gonna let people who are already in BiS roll on stuff they should at least limit how much they can win.

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This really wouldn't change anything. People will simply switch to the job that doesn't have gear in order to roll on things if some of restriction were put in place.

I'm pretty sure you still can only win one item a week from savage

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

This really wouldn't change anything. People will simply switch to the job that doesn't have gear in order to roll on things if some of restriction were put in place.

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I was mostly wishing they'd enforce the "one item per week per fight" rule that's present in normal mode on top of the existing restrictions for the sake of preventing scenarios where one player screws the entire group out of loot by winning everything when they're already BiS.

I've also seen only one on-class weapon drop and won zero weapon coffers out of the 30-40ish clears of tier endboss fights I've been in, so I have some seriously cursed luck.

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Originally Posted by Stepjam

I'm pretty sure you still can only win one item a week from savage

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Just had someone win both the weapon and chest armor coffer from E8S this week, so definitely not the case.

This is reminds me why I never raid. Last time ran the Nier raid took me over 10 runs to finally win a item from it for the week.

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Originally Posted by Stepjam

I'm pretty sure you still can only win one item a week from savage

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You can win multiple items aswell as winning multiple items from the same type and winning an item for a slot that your current character already has the gear for - aka you can win a chest coffer even though your character is currently wearing an Edenchest-piece. Thats something a lot of people are upset about, because before, if (lets say) your co-tank already had the tank-chest you were going to get it for sure. Now you have to (potentially) always roll against 7 other people if you pug and dont agree on certain lootrules before (something people seem to be totally uncapable off).

I'd still like to emphasis that this system is still an improvement. Back in Coil days you could see someone walk away with all the loot just aswell and get nothing for weeks without any books to trade in. I'm not saying that our current system is perfect, but I'm not sure if limiting the amount of loot one person can get after the clear is really the right solution.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Eden's Verse Savage.

If they're gonna let people who are already in BiS roll on stuff they should at least limit how much they can win.

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People gear up multiple jobs from the same role, which has different weapons, and sometimes jobs from other role as well.
And they play with their BiS job to make the encounter go faster and/or easier.
Plus if they already got their weapon, then other party members can greed on the weapon of those players' job when it drops. So there's an advantage there as well.

If you want specific loot rolling, you can just set up a PF with lootmaster.

Loot in savage is mild for static, so items never go to waste

In same time, if You are alone and going alone with strangers - everyone will press need even if they have item already -

( this is same issue as for Nier Outfit - Coffer )

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I was mostly wishing they'd enforce the "one item per week per fight" rule that's present in normal mode on top of the existing restrictions for the sake of preventing scenarios where one player screws the entire group out of loot by winning everything when they're already BiS.

I've also seen only one on-class weapon drop and won zero weapon coffers out of the 30-40ish clears of tier endboss fights I've been in, so I have some seriously cursed luck.



Just had someone win both the weapon and chest armor coffer from E8S this week, so definitely not the case.

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Yes the weapon and gear are seperate in E8 (any last tier has always been that way(except at launch and through HW iirc) you can get weapon AND a piece of gear since the weapon coffer change . So definitely still is the case.

You need to learn what you are talking about and if getting gear evenly in your group is so important, MAKE A STATIC. There is nothing that needs changing here except your understanding of it

and how exactly is the game supposed to know you're in "BiS"? all it knows is whether you have a piece of gear in your inventory or not. the game doesn't decide what best in slot is, you do.

get a static if you want to distribute gear evenly. otherwise you're at the mercy of pugs and rng. if you don't like that too bad so sad.

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Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

Yes the weapon and gear are seperate in E8 (any last tier has always been that way(except at launch and through HW iirc) you can get weapon AND a piece of gear since the weapon coffer change . So definitely still is the case.

You need to learn what you are talking about and if getting gear evenly in your group is so important, MAKE A STATIC. There is nothing that needs changing here except your understanding of it

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I'm aware of that and was responding to someone who was under the mistaken impression that you could get only one item per lockout from a fight, so pay attention before you start saying I don't know what I'm talking about.

Anyhow, my schedule doesn't really permit me to be in a static, so I guess I'm out of luck unless people are willing to join a lootmaster party (Which they usually aren't due to trust issues) that prioritizes giving the gear to people who actually need it.

I still don't see what would be so unreasonable about having a "Can win only one item per fight via need roll" restriction, though, or really, just anything to help it not take over a bloody month to get a single piece of gear from a specific fight if you can't win rolls on anything.

the game is here forever. eventually it gets unlocked. farm to your hearts content then. no one "needs" the gear right away.

Valid point I suppose, considering that the only new content that will be available to even use the 500 gear on is going to be easier then Savage anyways (Since we're not getting a new Ultimate in 5.3 and the 5.4 crafted gear/ EX trial weapon are going to replace it immediately).

I still feel like there's something they could do to make the whole system more satisfying for everyone, though.

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Originally Posted by SXTC

Just heard from some friends they are thinking about quitting FFXIV cuss they do so much end game its very stressing if they never get any of the drops. I can understand them because I'm what you call an unlucky person. I only get 1 good drop out of every 20 drops. Can't SE introduce a system that increases the chance of getting something good if you haven't gotten a certain item yet? So less chance for someone that already got it/something recently, compared to someone that hasn't gotten it/anything.

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End game (Savage fights) have this... it's the books you get from a kill. Your weapon never drop? Buy it then using 8 books.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm aware of that and was responding to someone who was under the mistaken impression that you could get only one item per lockout from a fight, so pay attention before you start saying I don't know what I'm talking about.

Anyhow, my schedule doesn't really permit me to be in a static, so I guess I'm out of luck unless people are willing to join a lootmaster party (Which they usually aren't due to trust issues) that prioritizes giving the gear to people who actually need it.

I still don't see what would be so unreasonable about having a "Can win only one item per fight via need roll" restriction, though, or really, just anything to help it not take over a bloody month to get a single piece of gear from a specific fight if you can't win rolls on anything.

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It literally IS that way currently. You can only get one ARMOR piece, per week, PER FIGHT, in the current raid tier. The only exception is the last fight where you can get a Weapon Coffer AND a Piece of Gear ( still only ONCE per week) The books are there to supplement if you cant win any rolls.

There is no need to change it further

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Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

It literally IS that way currently. You can only get one ARMOR piece, per week, PER FIGHT, in the current raid tier. The only exception is the last fight where you can get a Weapon Coffer AND a Piece of Gear ( still only ONCE per week) The books are there to supplement if you cant win any rolls.

There is no need to change it further

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I'm pretty sure you're confusing Savage with NM... yes, in NM you can only win one token AND you get the sword in E8, but in Savage you can roll on all pieces of gear that drop AND win all of them. So as long as more than one piece of armor drops (which is always the case with 2 chests at the very least) you can win multiple pieces.
You can only get loot once per week, but then you can get as much as you manage to outroll your partymembers on.

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Originally Posted by SXTC

My friend just told me I forgot to mention that it's mainly an issue at savage where everyone gets to need all the items. So the frustrating part is that some people that do almost nothing run off with the drops while the people that do the most get nothing over and over. RNG or not.. this should be adressed as it discourages players to stick around. The freeloaders/selfish people will ofcourse love this system as it gives them an edge to get something they haven't earned... but I doubt SE is aiming to please only those.

And I realize barely anyone will still want to play if they knew they were no longer able to optain more items. But giving a % boost to those that haven't gotten it yet that week would be a sollution for end game content, and ontop of that... its fair and just.

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Well here's an issue with that. Running in party finder outside of a static is probably not a good idea for terms of loot especially in savage. We can't have raids that are dependent on who does the best job out of the group, that would alienate certain people from even having a chance for those items. It's not a matter of the RNG it's more of a low tolerance level for patience in the game, you do not get to earn everything at once. Some things might take longer to get but it's worth it, especially when the raids give you books to exchange them for gear even if you do not earn anything you will eventually get it regardless. Also stating to give a % boost to people who haven't earned it that week, would create such a mess in programming, not to mention there are other people out there that might have the same horrible RNG luck too so I can't see that working. Yes it does suck believe me it took me 10 weeks to earn my belt from Eden Savage 1 because RNG and greedy DPS members that I've kicked out for loot hoarding. Now I run it on lootmaster Council for my Static.
Also everyone has to do their part in a savage raid, there is a DPS requirement.

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Originally Posted by SXTC

My friend just told me I forgot to mention that it's mainly an issue at savage where everyone gets to need all the items. So the frustrating part is that some people that do almost nothing run off with the drops while the people that do the most get nothing over and over. RNG or not.. this should be adressed as it discourages players to stick around. The freeloaders/selfish people will ofcourse love this system as it gives them an edge to get something they haven't earned... but I doubt SE is aiming to please only those.

And I realize barely anyone will still want to play if they knew they were no longer able to optain more items. But giving a % boost to those that haven't gotten it yet that week would be a sollution for end game content, and ontop of that... its fair and just.

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Yoshi-p has already adressed this. This new system is no more or less fair than how it was for omega or alexander because ultimately you have just as much chance to get ALL the loot yourself as you do to get nothing. So yes, its bad RNG and not something that needs to be discussed. If you want more a more controlled environment, join a static.

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Originally Posted by SXTC

Just heard from some friends they are thinking about quitting FFXIV cuss they do so much end game its very stressing if they never get any of the drops. I can understand them because I'm what you call an unlucky person. I only get 1 good drop out of every 20 drops. Can't SE introduce a system that increases the chance of getting something good if you haven't gotten a certain item yet? So less chance for someone that already got it/something recently, compared to someone that hasn't gotten it/anything.

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Bad luck is adressed. Not everywhere, but in a vast majority of contect.

• All leveling dungeons give you an armor piece after last boss is dead. Not that long ago they added even weapons there, so you can collect the full set in 12 runs at max even if you were unlucky to the point of not getting a single piece from coffers.
  
  
• Savage raids give you books from each clear (1 per week if Savage is fresh, like E5S - E8S now). In case if you do your runs with random players or your static doesn't use lootmaster, you still will get a piece you need after enough books are collected. It will take quite a long time, yes, but it's there.
  
  
• Instead of giving a concrete armor items, Savages now drop coffers. Some can argue that it's a bad change, but it is, in fact, better. There are 17 battle jobs by now (without BLU), so recieving the weapon alone without a coffer from E4S/E8S or any other savage weapon floor is a gamble. Armor pieces are somewhat shared, but you still were need to actually drop them, and after that there was a contest as to who will outroll it if there are few players going for the same piece. On top of that, during weekly restriction period you could get only one item per run, so even if you were lucky enough to drop two needed pieces, you could get only one. With coffers you can get all of them unless you already have one locked in your inventory. Let's be honest: the chance of recieving hands coffer is higher that a chance of recieving hands for specific job, when there's a chance to not get any hands in loot at all.
  
  
• All Extreme Trials (with few exceptions) give tokens for clearing them, so even if you didn't drop your weapon - you can buy it after 10 Runs (5 for one certain EX Trial). Same goes for mounts starting from HW, though you would need to collect 99 tokens for them.
  
  
• There is an armor for tokens. While it hasn't anything to do with luck, it's still an easily obtainable and decent equipment, and only thing you need to do for it is clearing Daily Roulettes and Dungeons that give appropriate tokens upon completion.

Content that is based only on luck with coffers and Roll:

• Expansion max level dungeons (50/60/70/80)
  
  
• Alliance Raids
  
  
• Some ARR EX Trials

Content that is based only on luck with Roll (as parts in coffers are mainly the same from run to run):

• Normal (non-Savage) Raids

That said, while there are still some instances where you can only rely on luck and pray, SE did an actually decent work on how to ease the harshness of random. Maybe it could be expanded to Alliance Raids and Max level dungeons with some sort of tokens (let's say 15 runs for one piece, since this content is generally easier than EX Trials, so more runs required would make sense), but outside of this there are plenty of ways to get what you want even with being unlucky at Rolls.