On the class system and unreleased equipment

*Reposted from ZAM*

Hey folks, I'm Axl Klaavas from Besaid. I have made some pretty big observations and feedback posts regarding the class system, and how it could be improved to SE over the last few months, and I thought I would share it with you all, and get your opinions.

Before I start, let me touch on my standing in difference to FFXI. I would like to see this game in a similar state that XI is in. I know many of you shun the very idea of XIV being similar to XI, but hear me out.

1. How SE could implement the loads of unreleased (and rather cool looking) equipment without raising the cap: This goes in one aspect for weapons, but multiple for armor. We all know that armor and some weapons work in tiers, and categories. For this example, we'll use the haubergeon family. There is a haubergeon for every 10 ranks, starting from R27, up to R47 (Excluding Templar and Vintage, since they are special items.). It seems a bit odd in the first place that something as lowly as iron would be at the very top of the armor ladder (Iron Plate set), and there are known Steel, and Black Metal sets in existance, so, how would these be implemented? Easy. replace and rebuild. Since equipment works in tiers, it is easy to just 'bump it down a few notches'. SE could simply change the model, and change the name of a piece of equipment, and then rebuild it at a lower rank. So, for example, bronze haubergeon could be bumped down to R7, Iron to R17, Cavalry to R27, steel to R37, dark metal to R47, and then at the end, you have the upcoming class specific (artifact) armor, mentioned in this evening's Letter from the Producer for R50. BUT, this won't leave everyone with underpowered equipment. Anyone who had a Bronze Haubergeon in their inventory would find it gone, and in it's place, a Cavalry Haubergeon. It's simple. The same goes with weapons, even though they are mostly without tiers, they would just be replaced by their higher up replacement.

2. How unique classes would help the skill mixing system: In my opinion, having played every single class of war and magic, I feel like each class only has very small, but noticeable changes. To me, they all feel very much the same (Though you may disagree). It is my belief that classes that have skills that are not present, or similar to other skills in another class would be 100% beneficial, as it would give the player all the more reason to level up a class. To gain very specific skills that no other class could possess on it's own. This would require massive reassigning to skills in each class, but as the players poll showed; the majority of players would welcome a large overhaul. It would feel (and be) much more rewarding to level up a Black Mage, just to get those beautiful elemental spells (It also wouldn't hurt to make the spell effects look more specific) or a White Mage, to get buff spells, and healing magic. Although, if they do implement the older classes (It appears to be inevitable, considering current events) in replacement to the current, there comes to contradiction that Paladin, Dark Knight, and Red Mage, all have magic as well. Here is my solution: Make it so that the melee/magic classes have less spells/get them at a slower rate/lack some of the more powerful spells that the primary mages would get, if you leveled them on your own. OR, you could make it so that leveling certain classes to certain ranks would unlock another class, but who knows.

3. What I believe should happen to the classes (Changing them to the classic FF classes)

Gladiator (Rename Paladin): Remove tank skills, lesser white magic, ability to use a two handed sword.
Marauder (Rename Warrior): Inherit tank skills, revise current marauder skills to not double up on that, ability to use axe and shield.
Conjurer (Rename Black Mage): Umbral, Elemental, Debuffs
Thaumaturge (Rename White Mage): Astral, Healing, Buffs
Lancer (Rename Dragoon): keep the same, possibly inheriting a wyvern (I honestly don't care about this)
Fencer [Unreleased](Rename Red Mage): Lesser white magic, lesser black magic, rapier
Arcanist [Unreleased](Unsure): No idea
Samurai [Unreleased]: Gil Toss. 'nuff said, great katanas
Assassin [Unreleased](Rename Ninja): guild purchasable dual wielding trait that can be transfered to other classes, ninjitsu, katanas
Archer(Rename Ranger): Make more unique
Pugilist(Rename Monk): Make more unique
Musketeer (Corsair?): No idea
You get the picture.

Regarding guilds, and guild quests. There are many things that could be done, or left alone. Moving Guilds to different locations, completely rebuilding guild quests, it's really up to the developers.

That about wraps it up I think. I'm very tired.

~Axl Klaavas, Besaid

Ideas are good and all, but they would have to TOTALLY change the storylines and everything plus the lore behind the classes. I like the classes now, just need to unique them up is all

I think that there could be minor changes done to justify the bigger ones. For example, as a paladin, fighting in the arena, every once in a while, someone could make remarks about "Haven't seen a Paladin in the blood sands in quite some time"

Agreed, in order to change the names, they would have to change other aspects of the game like what DeadRiser said, the story. And yeah, some of the classes dont feel as exclusive as they should be so I'm hoping something is done about that. But in regards to the name changes, Yoshi P is already in the works of either making those next tier classes or implementing in the current classes. We'll see what he'll choose ^.^

I like the concept, but the different names are good, it makes it feel more like its own game.

I still want my Flayer and Fencer!!! :(

They'd have to redo the stories, so that won't be happening. Plus, THM wouldn't make a good White Mage at all, it's way too dark and sinister overall. THM is based on the Green Mage/Time Mage class, as they pretty much only use green magic.

Honestly, as long as I get Samurai, I don't care. *Rubs the back of his head*

In one of the recent interviews, Yoshida touched on where the armoury system is likely to go -- They're either going to add in advanced jobs or rework the current system to organically change your job title based on weapon and current skills equipped.

I'm interested to see what route they go with advanced jobs, if they take it in that direction. Unlockable jobs like in FINAL FANTASY XI doesn't really fit the current world very well. Maybe a job tree that allows the player to branch off once they hit 50 and above? Lancer could become dragoon, conjurer could split off into Black Mage or White Mage, etc.

I'm not sure dramatically changing the roles of the classes would go over well with people who leveled those classes to play those roles.

and multiclassing could easily negate the need for hybrid classes like paladin, the classic looks can easily be added with armor, heck you could even put advantages on the armor to encourage certain playstyles. (EG:red mage style armor would grant AOE and fast casting at the expense of some defense)

I'd like an overhaul but I really dont want the game to turn into XI.


Edit: Now ADDING the old classes that are missing or just adding new ones i'm totally for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Axl

Gladiator (Rename Paladin): Remove tank skills, lesser white magic, ability to use a two handed sword.

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Why would a paladin not have tanking skills? they were the first actual tanks in FFXI

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nephera

I'm not sure dramatically changing the roles of the classes would go over well with people who leveled those classes to play those roles.

and multiclassing could easily negate the need for hybrid classes like paladin, the classic looks can easily be added with armor, heck you could even put advantages on the armor to encourage certain playstyles. (EG:red mage style armor would grant AOE and fast casting at the expense of some defense)

I'd like an overhaul but I really dont want the game to turn into XI.

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They've gone on record saying they are doing everything they can to NOT cancel out any work players have put into their current jobs. They don't want to move backwards :)

I'm also sure they are being careful to approach the job system in a way that doesn't just copy/paste over from XI. The roles themselves will most likely carry over (red mage as support, paladin tanks), but the implementation is likely to be different or varied. I really hope they stay away from multi-classing, personally. Being able to focus on, say, Dragoon and have some horizontal movement within that job as far as what traits I focus on would be perfect for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rjain

They'd have to redo the stories, so that won't be happening. Plus, THM wouldn't make a good White Mage at all, it's way too dark and sinister overall. THM is based on the Green Mage/Time Mage class, as they pretty much only use green magic.

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zomg. Rjain! you're my favorite poster on Fanaji.


but anyway. Yeah.

OP's idea can be summed into "Make FFXIV into FFXI"

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Originally Posted by Rau

zomg. Rjain! you're my favorite poster on Fanaji.

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Haha. Hello!

I think the best choise is one system of Advance Job / Pestige Class with the chance to unlock the new skill ( G. Katana, 2h-Sword, Raiper, Scythes, etc... ) with varius combination of "base" skill.

For example : DRK → LNC/MRD + THM , now you can use all ability without penalty from LNC/MRD and THM and when you ranking Scythes you unlock unquic skill and traits to improve previus skill

The simply action to rename currenty class with the classic name from the saga, GLD → PLD / MRD → WAR / LNC → DRG, in my opinion it is not a godd idea because you must chance all storyline and skill/ability

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zamiel

I think the best choise is one system of Advance Job / Pestige Class with the chance to unlock the new skill ( G. Katana, 2h-Sword, Raiper, Scythes, etc... ) with varius combination of "base" skill.

For example : DRK → LNC/MRD + THM , now you can use all ability without penalty from LNC/MRD and THM and when you ranking Scythes you unlock unquic skill and traits to improve previus skill

The simply action to rename currenty class with the classic name from the saga, GLD → PLD / MRD → WAR / LNC → DRG, in my opinion it is not a godd idea because you must chance all storyline and skill/ability

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I made that suggestion a while ago and agree. I like the "Tactics" idea for advanced jobs where you have to level multiple jobs to unlock new ones. It'll give some players more incentive to level multiple classes.

Although I doubt you will see scythes as a weapon... that's a botanist tool. Unless they make a "war scythe" but it seems unlikely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rjain

I made that suggestion a while ago and agree. I like the "Tactics" idea for advanced jobs where you have to level multiple jobs to unlock new ones. It'll give some players more incentive to level multiple classes.

Although I doubt you will see scythes as a weapon... that's a botanist tool. Unless they make a "war scythe" but it seems unlikely.

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They can just have differnt classes. Like Great Sctyhe and Zaghnal

Leave the names alone, you guys just have nothing more to complain about so your making crap up. Leave the game the way it is its fine.

wow might finally get arcanist in 2.0