Immersion Breaking Mini-Boss Music in Dungeons

This is something that's bugged me for a really long time and I now feel like speaking up about it, but has anyone ever felt like the songs selected in the new endgame dungeons are kind of unfitting and out of place?

Let's take Amaurot as an excellent example of this. Nice story telling dungeon, really get's you moving, pumped up. You get this really beautiful track that is incredible to listen to and really sets the mood very well. Then you reach the mini-boss and you get unfitting boss music used all the way from ARR 2.X. Like, you're at the end of the story and everything hangs in the balance and we're listening to FATE music. In a dungeon like Amaurot, I think it would have set a much better tone if the dungeon music had continued to play all the way through until the dungeon's final boss.

I do not know what SE's metric is for where they decide to place certain Mini-Boss music at. I don't know if they even have one at all, but in story driven dungeons like Amaurot, it's not FATE music all the way from 2.X. I really want to encourage SE to consider more immersive mini-boss tracks when they make newer dungeons.


Also for reference, here is the music I am referring to:
(Possible Story Spoilers if you watch those videos)


Amaurot Theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtxR97bgF-Q
Amaurot's Mini-Boss Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hCwKNrT6Jg

They just changed all the miniboss themes for 5.0 dungeons. Or at least, it's been changed in all the dungeons I've run through.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

They just changed all the miniboss themes for 5.0 dungeons. Or at least, it's been changed in all the dungeons I've run through.

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Most of them. Mt Gulg still has a few so I wonder if it's just end game.

Honestly I like the remix - but I feel like it's guitar theme is more suited for PVP. But given that Shadowbringers doesn't have PVP on the first...well...

I will say though I do like all of the tracks, it's the first time I've turned off the battle music in game because it feels too loud. Soken has a pretty good track record though I just feel the placement isn't suiting for where they were.

parts of High Treason feels more like great music for overworld fights as well as dungeon bosses.

Honestly though, even though I feel the mix may miss the mark in style - I do like the idea that each Xpac should not get the same "generic mini boss" music in each dungeon and *should* be expansion specific.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Most of them. Mt Gulg still has a few so I wonder if it's just end game.

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I think Mt Gulg kept its theme because its titled Torn From the Heavens, which is really fitting

It does seem a little odd when you get the super hype banger for like the second boss. Not really immersion breaking, per se, but definitely a little out of place feeling.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Honestly I like the remix - but I feel like it's guitar theme is more suited for PVP. But given that Shadowbringers doesn't have PVP on the first...well...

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IMO, it's one of the those songs where I dislike maybe 5% of it, and love the other 95%.

The intro is what I hate about that song.

I wasn't a fan of this change at all.

It would have been fine for them to do just in the new 5.2 dungeon because I would have been able to accept it as them trying something new, but the new track is basically just a remix of Insatiable (the last boss theme from Shadowbringers dungeons) which is normally a pretty impactful track, particularly the first time you hear it. But when you're basically hearing it for every single boss encounter, it loses a lot of that impact, and now it will just suffer from overexposure.

It does seem pretty unfitting, depending on the boss and setting. First and second bosses of the level 73 dungeon and Grand Cosmos probably could have just kept what they originally had (A Fine Death, I think it was? Alternatively, if he could/were allowed to, Soken could have given those dungeon bosses the theme 'Reign of Pain,' Shantotto's theme. Definitely would fit well in Grand Cosmos). Amaurot could have had Phantoms on the Lake or Nemesis and Twinning Tumbling Down or Shattered.

I dunno. I don't mind the theme, but it definitely doesn't fit for some fights. High Treason and Paradisaical Predicaments could have worked, too.
One good thing I will say though is that at least Persistence is gone. I hate that boss theme the most in FFXIV and wish it would stop being used.

It does seem SE went way overboard with people's comments about the mid-boss music being out of place in certain fights. Like, people were only really complaining about Amaurot's midboss music being the super boring, tame music for what were supposed to be apocalyptic, final dungeon opponents. The music for the rest of the midbosses throughout ShB was fine and didn't need changed. Now it's way worse than before because it ruins the best dungeon final boss music in the game by overplaying it everywhere. It's annoying that SE can never seem to find a happy medium with adjustments and always has to go to one extreme or the other. Glad I got to experience the amazing Insatiable theme while it was still impactful.

And what's really a shame is that Soken has so many amazing themes that can be used, but just aren't. The guy does such an amazing job continually pumping out kickass music every patch, but the people implementing his music do such a lazy job putting it the game sometimes, preferring to either use the same old music over and over, or pick one new song and use it to death instead. And this doesn't just apply to boss battles, the whole game suffers from this. I really enjoyed the new Qitari beast tribe theme, and yet it is not used for the beast tribe mount. Nor are any of the other unique beast tribe themes, which are all good, ever used for their beast tribe mounts, except the Namazu.

Yeeh, there is a lot of dungeons that would be better off if he mini-boss theme was removed, like Sohm Al (Hard).

Also wouldn't have minded it if they decided to reuse some of the trails and raid themes for certain dungeon bosses to mix it up.

There are some dungeons where there doesn't really need to be boss music, like how they removed battle music in the final shadowbringers area. The immersion just returns afterwards though.

They did just change the mini-boss music in that dungeon in 5.2 so the post is incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

This is something that's bugged me for a really long time and I now feel like speaking up about it, but has anyone ever felt like the songs selected in the new endgame dungeons are kind of unfitting and out of place?

Let's take Amaurot as an excellent example of this. Nice story telling dungeon, really get's you moving, pumped up. You get this really beautiful track that is incredible to listen to and really sets the mood very well. Then you reach the mini-boss and you get unfitting boss music used all the way from ARR 2.X. Like, you're at the end of the story and everything hangs in the balance and we're listening to FATE music. In a dungeon like Amaurot, I think it would have set a much better tone if the dungeon music had continued to play all the way through until the dungeon's final boss.

I do not know what SE's metric is for where they decide to place certain Mini-Boss music at. I don't know if they even have one at all, but in story driven dungeons like Amaurot, it's not FATE music all the way from 2.X. I really want to encourage SE to consider more immersive mini-boss tracks when they make newer dungeons.


Also for reference, here is the music I am referring to:
(Possible Story Spoilers if you watch those videos)


Amaurot Theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtxR97bgF-Q
Amaurot's Mini-Boss Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hCwKNrT6Jg

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It depends on the dungeon. Personally I envy the new blood that will be going into Amarout blind with the new boss theme. I would've personally only used the new miniboss theme for the 80 dungeons, not the 71-79 dungeons. I'm of the mind the more intense version of Insatiable would've hit the players as making the situation feel more...well intense. But what do I know? The more unconventional battle themes of this game are what keep me coming back.

I feel like it'd be MORE off-putting if the dungeon theme played over boss battles. Should they have recycled "To The Fore?" No, even though it is a good tune, its time has long since passed. As a potentially odd aside, I feel like I could barely hear it sometimes in the new dungeons. Can't explain that one though. Could just be me or my setup. Anyway, we should get a new mid-boss theme every expansion. Not to say no battle music can ever be reused, but it should be fitting as with "Torn From The Heavens." To The Fore just wasn't it. If they really want to be daring they could have unique mid-boss themes for climactic dungeons like Amaurot.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

It depends on the dungeon. Personally I envy the new blood that will be going into Amarout blind with the new boss theme. I would've personally only used the new miniboss theme for the 80 dungeons, not the 71-79 dungeons. I'm of the mind the more intense version of Insatiable would've hit the players as making the situation feel more...well intense. But what do I know? The more unconventional battle themes of this game are what keep me coming back.

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I know I was kind of blown away when I entered my first 24-man raid and the dungeon end boss music started playing for the first boss. I got exactly that feeling.

I love changes that do absolutely nothing for the game.

I like the new boss music
Way more than the old music tbh

Amaurot is the only dungeon that it really bothers me in. Like, the theme for the dungeon is so good, they should just leave it playing till the last fight. The music of Amaurot really puts you in the moment, and unless your party is really bad, you get a snippet of the song, and then it's immediately interrupted.

It's just reminiscent of every turn based ff out there. Music change on encounter. Don't really see anything wrong with it. Could even debate that it's not breaking immersion in the sense it's an integral part of ff culture at this point.

It's like the victory music.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I wasn't a fan of this change at all.

It would have been fine for them to do just in the new 5.2 dungeon because I would have been able to accept it as them trying something new, but the new track is basically just a remix of Insatiable (the last boss theme from Shadowbringers dungeons) which is normally a pretty impactful track, particularly the first time you hear it. But when you're basically hearing it for every single boss encounter, it loses a lot of that impact, and now it will just suffer from overexposure.

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And hearing it from every single last boss of a dungeon wont?

It's a dungeon - Not a raid, the music may be impactful but by the time you're lvl 80 and you've been through atleast 5-8 dungeons with that last boss music theme, it kinda looses its impact, so i dont see the harm in changing the 1st/2nd boss music as its just an extra incentive to have ingame music turned on for most people, imo.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

Amaurot is the only dungeon that it really bothers me in. Like, the theme for the dungeon is so good, they should just leave it playing till the last fight. The music of Amaurot really puts you in the moment, and unless your party is really bad, you get a snippet of the song, and then it's immediately interrupted.

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but the 1st and 2nd boss music in amaurot before was generic 14 boss music, so why is this bad that they made a track specifically for non-final bosses of dungeons for an expansion?

Honestly, in general the only reason people are complaining here is because people didnt even notice the generic boss music before, because its been played in dungeons for years, and then suddenly when Soken puts in the effort to make a theme and add it in to existing dungeons for verity, and people get annoyed? Wew.

Can we request a new FATEs theme for 6.0 as well.

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And hearing it from every single last boss of a dungeon wont?

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Not really, no. At least it feels appropriate for the final boss, particularly when most of them throughout the 5.0 dungeons have been Lightwardens, which were rather central to the plot (not to mention appropriate to Insatiable's lyrics).

Now though, with even the mini bosses basically playing the same theme, running into your first Lightwarden (for instance) isn't going to have the stage set for it nearly as well as before.

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Honestly, in general the only reason people are complaining here is because people didnt even notice the generic boss music before, because its been played in dungeons for years, and then suddenly when Soken puts in the effort to make a theme and add it in to existing dungeons for verity, and people get annoyed? Wew.

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The problem isn't that it's something new, the problem is that it isn't technically new at all. Again, it's just a less intense remix of the same music you hear at the final boss. That diminishes the impact of the final boss encounter, because you've basically heard it already in the very same dungeon run, twice.

No previous dungeons in earlier xpacs just remixed the final boss music and just used it for all of its bosses. No final boss themes in dungeons felt like they were just retreads of what you already heard for the first two midbosses.

Again, it wouldn't have been such a big deal if this was something they only did in the new dungeon in 5.2 as a once-off stylistic change, but to just take all the previous dungeons and do the same thing feels egregiously lazy.

I'm just glad they changed the mid-boss music, I was getting very sick of the old themes.

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Originally Posted by VenKitsune

but the 1st and 2nd boss music in amaurot before was generic 14 boss music, so why is this bad that they made a track specifically for non-final bosses of dungeons for an expansion?

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The problem (for me at least) is that they haven't "made new music", they've effectively taken the final boss music and added it to the midbosses, thus diluting its effect as epic final boss music. It becomes overplayed and instead of only hearing it for the final encounter, you've already heard it twice per dungeon before you get there.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The problem (for me at least) is that they haven't "made new music", they've effectively taken the final boss music and added it to the midbosses, thus diluting its effect as epic final boss music. It becomes overplayed and instead of only hearing it for the final encounter, you've already heard it twice per dungeon before you get there.

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I agree. I like all the music, but I do dislike the melody being overused because I think it does take away the impact of the final boss fight.

I'm in a difficult spot right now because while I love the music, I do think that they shouldn't over-saturate it.

I find any combat music off putting in this game.
Overworld combat music is the worst offender by far.

There you are, having a nice track playing only for it to be changed to noisy, screechy electric guitars because you happened to venture too close to a mob.

Ugh. In the Overworld you can deactivate it but in dungeons you are stuck with it.

Solution: use a media player instead and feed it the games soundtrack.

With the exception of a few places, the majority of the tracks in this game are all remixes of the Final Fantasy iconic main theme anyway. The generic boss fight themes that were removed are part of this exception..

I like 'remixed' version of those major boss themes for Shadowbringers, but I think it's not very fitting for all the boss encounters for the expansion, just a few.

On one hand, I'm glad that the old music was replaced. Having heard some of it in pretty much every single dungeon throughout multiple expansions it did become a bit grating. On the other hand, I think a better move would have been to create a handful of new 'mini-boss' themes and spread them around to bring about more variety.

It's not as immersion breaking as the older ARR dungeons, where battle music plays for the trash mobs, but I think the dungeon music continuing to play until reaching a mini boss started happening as early as 2.1

There are definitely some dungeons where I wish the music would continue playing up until the final boss, but there are also some dungeons where the mini boss music is welcome. I think maybe the issue could possibly be that a standardized mini boss track won't fit in all dungeons, as is the case with Amaurot. In this case they could either use an existing track more fitting, compose another, or just leave the dungeon music playing.

The good news is that the music for dungeons continues to evolve and get better. I even thought the radio tuning in Akademia Anyder was briliiant.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I even thought the radio tuning in Akademia Anyder was briliiant.

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It's a great touch, though sadly it isn't present on the orchestrion roll. :(

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Originally Posted by Gemina

It's not as immersion breaking as the older ARR dungeons, where battle music plays for the trash mobs, but I think the dungeon music continuing to play until reaching a mini boss started happening as early as 2.1

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Kinda. Haukke Manor and Copperbell Mines Hard both used the same theme (which was the original dungeon theme back in 1.X), while Pharos Sirius' theme was nearing two minutes long and didn't loop (and was actually a hard dungeon in 2.1 that people wiped in/left frequently). I think it was thanks to Pharos Sirius that dungeons now have music play until boss fights, as I'm pretty sure there was some backlash that a nice theme just played once at the start and then never again.

I hated the old music (repetition and stark contrast with expansion themes), and the ShB last boss theme (Insatiable?) is a personal favorite of mine, so I don't mind hearing it some more.

I'm also one of the apparently few people that absolutely hates the Amaurot themed dungeon musics, so I greatly appreciate the boss music breaking it up.