SCH: Deployment tactics slight adjustment request.

Since SHB, we lost Eye for an Eye that used to be spreadable and we can't spread a "critlo" double shield anymore since catalyze was introduced and that's not spreadable. The new seraphic shield isn't spreadable either.

So the only things we can currently spread is: galvanize and slightly higher number galvanize (but not double the value like it used to be)

Considering how the delay from cast of shield to deployment is temperamental even if you wait long enough sometimes it still doesn't do it, and it's impossible to spread from fairy anymore so the shield sometimes gets eaten by mechanics before it can even be deployed, would it be crazy to ask for deploy to come with the shield built in? AST got their QoL with Minor Arcana including the card draw in the minor arcana application button. I feel like this is a similar enough change.

For example, it could act like cure 3 where instead of just healing from the target in a short radius, it would heal + shield from the target, so you keep the effect of spreading a shield from a distance in the same smaller radius it currently has, but it's still casted to avoid making it overpowered (and too similar to celestial opposition in nocturnal stance). So if you wanted a "critlo" you would still be able to do recitation > deployment and it would do the same effect it currently has except this time it would guarantee the spread instead.

Since there's nothing else that can be spread I don't fully understand the reasoning behind removing bane but keeping deployment tactics as it is.

I would like to see that a change made that would benefit us a lot considering we already deal with so many fairy delays and bugs as it is already.

What do people think? Would this become OP or do you think this would make it worse?

You shouldn't be deploying 1-3s before any mechanic/raid wide aoe/any damage, but at least 10s before.
Shields are meant to be prevention, and prevention has to be plan earlier.

I dont think that's really what they are saying; I agree with her, all the things they took out but left in deployment tactics.

I think they are more saying it's an unusual thing, and asking why it didnt either get removed or get updated.

I feel it's just a sign the state the job is in, nothing is cohesive anymore, nothing flows together anymore, it's all this hodgepodge of a job.

When you try to weave fast and adlo spread but the spread is 0,5 sec to early after the critlo spread nerf I would give deployment a shield base line and make it always crit with recitation

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Originally Posted by Mortex

When you try to weave fast and adlo spread but the spread is 0,5 sec to early after the critlo spread nerf I would give deployment a shield base line and make it always crit with recitation

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I tend to find popping a Ruin II right after casting the Adloquium gives enough time for the game to register that I have a shield on me (most of the time I deploy off myself since if the tank is taking autos it will eat shields.)

I think that a good change for that skill would be to become a buff, similar to excog you could apply deployment tactics to a party member (or yourself) and if that party member has a shield or gets a shield while the buff is active the shield is spreaded to nearby allies. That would solve both the weaving problems of Adlo->Deploy and the malfunctions created because shield's delay.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

I think that a good change for that skill would be to become a buff, similar to excog you could apply deployment tactics to a party member (or yourself) and if that party member has a shield or gets a shield while the buff is active the shield is spreaded to nearby allies. That would solve both the weaving problems of Adlo->Deploy and the malfunctions created because shield's delay.

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So technically similar to Plenary Indulgence or Horoscope, in that they only take effect after you cast the heal? Sounds much better than it's now.

I just want catalize to take damage before galvanize. I don't understand why this isn't a thing. Feels like a bug or an oversight, but since we're still chasing fairy bugs nobody's really been complaining about that.

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Originally Posted by Sabrenn

I don't fully understand the reasoning behind removing bane but keeping deployment tactics as it is.

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Don't worry, nobody does. Don't think even SE does.

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Originally Posted by Sabrenn

What do people think? Would this become OP or do you think this would make it worse?

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It really is a criminally underutilized skill for what unique things Scholar can and could do. With E4E gone and a critted deoplyed Galv shielding less than eight of a tank's hp, and like a fifth of a healer's, with the introduction of the kneecap injury called Catalyze SE's coined phrasing SCH as "shield healer" is awfully quaint.

As much as I love my inconveniences of waiting a second to deploy, having to combo Recitation into DT could force a spreaded 250% Galvanize shield originate from your target or yourself and would maybe stop people being tripped up from server ticks not registering there is a shield on your target resulting in "DT has no effect."

Despite having a ton of utility hacked out there is the hope that we could see more skills work in different combinations both offensively, restorative and supportive. ET already has short cooldown and the Fey Gauge is just beeing to have more meaningful use.

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Originally Posted by Sloprano

Don't worry, nobody does. Don't think even SE does.



It really is a criminally underutilized skill for what unique things Scholar can and could do. With E4E gone and a critted deoplyed Galv shielding less than eight of a tank's hp, and like a fifth of a healer's, with the introduction of the kneecap injury called Catalyze SE's coined phrasing SCH as "shield healer" is awfully quaint.

As much as I love my inconveniences of waiting a second to deploy, having to combo Recitation into DT could force a spreaded 250% Galvanize shield originate from your target or yourself and would maybe stop people being tripped up from server ticks not registering there is a shield on your target resulting in "DT has no effect."

Despite having a ton of utility hacked out there is the hope that we could see more skills work in different combinations both offensively, restorative and supportive. ET already has short cooldown and the Fey Gauge is just beeing to have more meaningful use.

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First off I'm going to start with OP. It's true that deployment tactics has some issues with reactability, unfortunately until that's addressed, the best you can do is learn to be more preemptive and space out your abilites.

Now for the post I quoted.

The whole point of nerfing critlo the way they have is because SCH now has Recitation to give a guaranteed critlo. There was no way we where getting that cooldown without critlo being nerfed.

Critlo was balanced around the rng of critical heals, and now that rng can be mitigated. Which makes it way to powerful. I can give an example, in O9s deploying a critlo during the earth phase completely nullifies the debuff tanks and healers get that requires them to be healed for full. Whereas the dps arent harmed by it if they fail their mechanic properly because they'll take more then enough damage irregardless.

Tl;dr Critlo was too strong of a mechanic and had to be nerfed in order for Recitation+Deploy make fights a joke (or if your a 'good player', even more of one)

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

The whole point of nerfing critlo the way they have is because SCH now has Recitation to give a guaranteed critlo. There was no way we where getting that cooldown without critlo being nerfed.

Critlo was balanced around the rng of critical heals, and now that rng can be mitigated. Which makes it way to powerful. I can give an example, in O9s deploying a critlo during the earth phase completely nullifies the debuff tanks and healers get that requires them to be healed for full. Whereas the dps arent harmed by it if they fail their mechanic properly because they'll take more then enough damage irregardless.

Tl;dr Critlo was too strong of a mechanic and had to be nerfed in order for Recitation+Deploy make fights a joke (or if your a 'good player', even more of one)

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Critlo was absolutely too strong a mechanic and absolutely needed to be nerfed, and I think that's part of the reason why SCH has been in such a weird place. A lot of SCH's really OP things were removed, and now, because of the loss of the really good things we had, SCH's now left with the things that aren't so good. SCH's problems are becoming more glaring, but, because of how hated AST is by the current playerbase, I doubt SCH will be fixed before the next Expansion. It's a shame, too, because I love this job, but it feels so frustrating to play sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Tl;dr Critlo was too strong of a mechanic and had to be nerfed in order for Recitation+Deploy make fights a joke (or if your a 'good player', even more of one)

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Indeed, I kept hearing that it trivialized savage runs. If that is so important to kneecap it begs the question why SE hasn't touched on tank invulns. How many times haven't we have a great big scary Extreme/savage boss who spends half a minute casting a double-whammy tankbuster you're supposed to mid-cast provoke or share, as it was designed for. All of them just trivialized by the tank popping HG, HolmG, LD or SuperB.

We're getting off-topic, but still an important one that I think deserves recognition about deployed critlos: they're fun. If SE allows us to cheese any tank mechanic with invulns, whats stopping them from letting healers feel just as powerful. Spread critlo (that, note was completely random before 5.0) made everything from T.G Cid to God Kefka a joke. If that made SCH OP, then the other healers should have something as equally powerful. Just off the top of my head:

WHM:
Might Wings is a juiced up Passage of Arms, everyone in range takes zero damage next five seconds, with an cooldown equivalent to HG.

AST:
Taking a leaf from King Crimson you bend fate to your will, any damage that is lethal or would take more than 50% of each party member's HP is simply erased from existence and nobody even remembers there even was an incoming attack.

These are just quick drafts that Im sure could work in some random surprise element like critlos was for getting that moment of relief and respite knowing you got lucky and can relax for a moment.

Because if SCH was OP before then it's simple: OP is fun, and everyone should have OP skills to feel OP on their job.

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Originally Posted by Sloprano

Indeed, I kept hearing that it trivialized savage runs. If that is so important to kneecap it begs the question why SE hasn't touched on tank invulns. How many times haven't we have a great big scary Extreme/savage boss who spends half a minute casting a double-whammy tankbuster you're supposed to mid-cast provoke or share, as it was designed for. All of them just trivialized by the tank popping HG, HolmG, LD or SuperB.

We're getting off-topic, but still an important one that I think deserves recognition about deployed critlos: they're fun. If SE allows us to cheese any tank mechanic with invulns, whats stopping them from letting healers feel just as powerful. Spread critlo (that, note was completely random before 5.0) made everything from T.G Cid to God Kefka a joke. If that made SCH OP, then the other healers should have something as equally powerful. Just off the top of my head:

WHM:
Might Wings is a juiced up Passage of Arms, everyone in range takes zero damage next five seconds, with an cooldown equivalent to HG.

AST:
Taking a leaf from King Crimson you bend fate to your will, any damage that is lethal or would take more than 50% of each party member's HP is simply erased from existence and nobody even remembers there even was an incoming attack.

These are just quick drafts that Im sure could work in some random surprise element like critlos was for getting that moment of relief and respite knowing you got lucky and can relax for a moment.

Because if SCH was OP before then it's simple: OP is fun, and everyone should have OP skills to feel OP on their job.

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OP is fun, but it doesn't seem to be healthy game design as OP-ness can cause one element of a game to overshadow another. The main difference between Tank invulns and mechanics like shielding your entire party for 50-70% of their entire health on a lucky draw is the fact that while, yes, players do use them for cheese. Tank invulns are a nessecary tool for self preservation when things turn south.

I'm also under the impression that a majority of the time, tank invuln cheesing tends to mainly only directly effect the tank, as opposed to protecting the entire party. While there are absolutely scenarios where a tank invuln could cheese group damage, such as tanks taking a stack marker and invulning the damage away from the group, a majority of the time it's used to either smooth out tank swaps, or negate the need for it, depending on the fight in question.