As the title states, this conversation will include spoilers. Please don't read ahead if you haven't finished the MSQ. This will also be a bit lengthy so please bear with me.
I'd just like to start by saying that I've been playing FFXIV for 5 years now and what seems to keep me invested 80% of the time is the story. I often look forward to that over most of the content if I'm being completely honest. After playing through 5.0, I was blown away by the story-telling considering Shb to be not only one of the best RPGs I've played in a LONG time but one of the best FF stories as well. I was looking forward to what would come next.
After finishing 5.2, I was extremely disappointed though. It was a complete slow burn that I struggled to get through:
- SE desperately needs to get rid of making the PC run these annoying errands. There is no need for us to come along with Ystola to clean her home. Why couldn't she have returned on her own shown through a cutscene? Go gather people in the Crystarium so we can tell them the truth about the Warriors of Light. Go talk to the soldiers to boost morale. At what point do we actually become the Warrior of Darkness and not the Scion's errand boy/girl?
- Not much happened and most of this felt like filler. With what I mentioned above, we sat around only to be interrupted by a group of thieves that were taken down by NPCs, ventured back to Qitana to solve riddles, briefly went back to the Source to check in with Raubhan only to return back to the First. The story on the First is much more interesting to me but it seems like it's becoming side content with the main focus getting the Scions back home. Some of the story involving the Acians and the people of Amaurot is kind of hard to follow. We already knew Elidibus was in Ardbert's body and is the vessel for Zodiark. And the cloaked Ascian in white STILL hasn't been revealed yet...and nothing interesting involving him has happened. These anticlimactic cliff-hanger endings are getting really old.
And I get that this is only 5.2 but man after such a strong start at 5.0, this just feels like a letdown. I really hope the future MSQ stuff lives up to what 5.0 started.
5.2 MSQ rant ***Spoilers***
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02-20-2020, 01:10 AMRenato5.2 MSQ rant ***Spoilers***
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02-20-2020, 01:18 AMHarmonea
The point of all the events you describe was to get us in the right place at the right time to see things happening.
We cleaned Y'shtola's room to watch her say goodbye to it and to see how sad Runar is about her leaving.
We went to stop the thieves to see our budding warriors of light beginning to feel the fire of adventure burning in them.
We cleaned barnacles off Bismarck so he could tell the story of how the Isle of Ken was named, reinforcing Elidibus' point about how men are incapable of keeping the history Emet-Selch was willing to entrust to us.
Yeah, it feels bad being given stupid chores, but they truly did all have a narrative goal for something they wanted us to see. It's fine if you don't think we need to watch Y'shtola say goodbye to Rak'tika and its people, but I disagree; it was a soft and humanizing moment for her, and I'm glad we got to see it even if my immediate reaction to being asked to go find a broom was "and we're putting off dealing with Ruby Weapon for this?"
Edit: if you are going to respond with sass about how I could've done Ruby Weapon first, as two others already have, you have completely missed the point of my post. -
02-20-2020, 01:28 AMAlleo
The only big thing that disappointed me with the story was the last part in the dungeon. I really thought we would see more of that building but one part was on Bismarks back, then another big part was outside and we barely even explored inside. And the information we got here also felt like it was not enough.
Honestly how much Yoshida teased us about it and how great the trailer was I kinda felt like: Thats all? Even the parts we found out about Elidibus were barely that much. -
02-20-2020, 01:29 AMRenatoThis is literally how I felt. And I get it...it's for the sake of "world building" and story progression. All I'm saying is that with the PC doesn't really need to be there for events like that. That could have just been a cutscene without us seemingly being dragged along. There are even options that you can choose where your character voices these annoyances. Eliminating those errand quests and just having them being played out in cutscenes wouldn't hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonea
Totally agree with this. Some were even hyping it to be the "climax of the Zodiark storyline."Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleo
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02-20-2020, 01:46 AMsarehptarI'm normally the first person to defend the choice to include humanizing moments in the story like this and I think that "does chores for people" is one of the core definitions of WoL/WoD, but in this case, it was so painfully shoehorned in to lengthen the patch content that it crossed over from "nice slower-paced moment to reveal more characterization" into "Pacing? Never heard of her."Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonea
There was no need for the aside with cleaning the room and the broom--Y'shtola could have had her moment of saying goodbye (and Runar his eavesdropping moment) just as easily in the same conversation in which she instructed us to go get the broom in the first place. If "genuine moment of rest" wasn't the goal of the table scene, it should just have been skipped in favor of a brief cutscene of the soldiers doing their thing elsewhere--we have plenty of cutscenes which occur without our characters seeing them, could have just done a quick cut to show these guys getting gung-ho about Warrior of Lighting, without the forced "Sit at this table for five lines of dialogue. Fly to this location for five more. Come back. Get back on the whale." The barnacles thing was... what? Just give us that Isle of Ken dialogue WHILE we were riding Bismarck through the first part of the new dungeon--they clearly demonstrated with Amaurot that dungeons are perfectly fine tools for storytelling. What was the point of the entire segue into La-Hee Land? Just for Y'shtola's ONE line of dialogue about the Final Days leaving an imprint on people's souls?
There's "whining because you got asked to do a few fetch quests" and then there's "I hope you like two-three hours of delay at a crucial crisis moment in the story before receiving 30 minutes of actual plot relevant material, most of it merely lead up for later."
I absolutely love this game's story, and even for me, the MSQ fell flat this time. I'm sure there will actually BE payoff later and I'll appreciate it then, but for now, this patch was basically carried entirely by the character interactions. :/ -
02-20-2020, 02:19 AMSigSauer
The only thing I'm upset about is that I was left craving for more because the story line is amazing.
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02-20-2020, 03:06 AMMaero
To each their own but i thought the story was great.
There was a moment like of course just send the warrior of darkness because we are too lazy to go moment but eh still loved the story. -
02-20-2020, 03:29 AMElladie
Very much disagree, OP. I didn't find this dragged at all, especially in comparison to 5.1, where I definitely felt like I ran around after Mr. Chai too much. But I understood then that we were setting up Eulmore's future prosperity etc. This time I didn't feel like any of the MSQ was at all long winded. In fact I was reeling from the various revelations and shocks that came think and fast.
Seeing you say 'not much happened' has me feeling like we are playing different games. So much happened, and so much of it was unexpected. Did you skip a lot? -
02-20-2020, 03:37 AMKikoten
I wanted more story about the ancients. As soon as Venat was introduced, I leaned forward in my seat, almost drooling for more. And then it's--"Y'shtola will stay here and discern what remains."
GREAT! WHAT THE F*** AM I SUPPOSED TO DO NOW?!
Seriously, I'm waiting to find out who our character, the WoL/D, REALLY is. Is it possible that ShB 5.0 end-story may have shown too much, too soon? As in the ancient standing in place of our character for that brief moment? Was Emet-Selch seeing things, or did that really happen? -
02-20-2020, 03:42 AMADarklore
Well, this is what happens towards the end of a storyline... they give players 'things to do' to keep them occupied in the game. Remember what ARR was like?!? All the fetch quests, especially towards the end, this is what most MMOs do when they are reaching the end of content. Let's add mindless/pointless content to keep the players occupied instead of having them rush to completion and then complain about no new content for the next few months.
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02-20-2020, 03:44 AMlinayI think it did happen as a result of our joining with Ardbert.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikoten
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02-20-2020, 04:05 AMFawkesAren't you the one putting it off, though? Ruby Weapon is a separate sidequest by then, and you can do it before going back to the First.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonea
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02-20-2020, 04:15 AMPeppermintBrownQuote:
Originally Posted by Harmonea
That's 100% on you nothing stopping you from taking care of the ruby weapon side quest before returning to the First. -
02-20-2020, 04:47 AMAveraxMy issue was that the trailer oversold it. A lot of the story stuff they showed us in the trailer was from the tail end of the patch. I knew not to really expect much story development from a .2 patch, they save the heavy hitters for .3 patches, but i can't help but have expected more from the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleo
The worst part was that they kind of gave it away that the Scions would be leaving the First in the next patch. After Eden, they say "Hey, we're leaving now, good luck" and it's way too early, but they have no choice but to say it now because the next wing of eden won't come until .4, when the story will be shifting over to the next expansion's arc. -
02-20-2020, 04:48 AMlinay
I actually went with Ruby Weapon first because it didn't make sense to put it off when I'm already in the Source.
How did they oversell it when you'll get everything that is in the trailer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Averax
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02-20-2020, 04:53 AMAveraxLike i said, they oversold it by putting all the very late story bits in the trailer. Like, the stuff that has been left open for the next patch. Typically the stuff being put into the story trailer is the stuff that's going to be covered.Quote:
Originally Posted by linay
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02-20-2020, 04:59 AMHarmoneaI understand what you're saying, but I think you should try to trust the devs more. Not everything is going to have a payoff, but the thieves that some other NPCs took care of, for example? You notice by the end of the patch, the guards were already tired of seeing us meddling in their adventuring? One of them said "You again?" That's going to be important. If all goes according to Elidibus' plan, they're going to be turned against us shortly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renato
Let them tell the story. They know players don't like chores and filler detours, so if they've included one, it's generally either to give us character insight or closure, or it's to foreshadow something. -
02-20-2020, 05:23 AMlinayI'm not sure what you mean by covered. Do you mean you wanted the resolution to what was raised in the trailer? I kind of figured there wouldn't be any considering they consider this as part 1 of a 2-part conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Averax
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02-20-2020, 05:42 AMValorak
Meh, I thought this patch did a good job of starting to build up Elidibus and make us question who he really is and what his scheme is on the First. It's also nudging us closer to fully understanding the Echo and Hydaelyn. Plus the Ruby Weapon side-story was a cool way to continue fleshing out Garlemald/Gaius, as well as the continuation of Eden which doubles as development for Ryne and healing the First. Now that I think about, I'd say that this patch was pretty rich in story, tbh.
As for the overall pacing of the patch; I don't really want the story to try to recapture the climax of 5.0 in every patch. We would quickly run out of meaningful story lines and it would turn into some theme-park ride of cheap highs and lows that I wouldn't really care about as much. I personally enjoy the little reprieves and character interactions. Not all of them resonate with me entirely, but I usually do end up more attached to the characters and it makes it seem less like the story is just a constant series of world ending crises.
Regardless, I'm not gonna pretend that I know better than Ms. Ishikawa or any of the members of the MSQ team when it comes to writing and dividing up their story. They've done a great job so far and I'm not gonna second guess them. -
02-20-2020, 05:58 AMStepjamIts the setup for the conclusion of ShB. Lest we forget, 4.3 was a pretty big and dramatic patch, but 4.2 was mainly just following Asahi around Doma and getting ready for a prisoner exchange. It wasn't until .3 that everything actually went down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renato
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02-20-2020, 06:38 AMUltimatecaliburThe MSQ of this patch was also the narrative definition of a climax rather than the common understanding of what a climax is. Most "climatic final battles" actually happen after the narrative climax of the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepjam
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02-20-2020, 07:46 AMAlleoYeah this was my problem too. First showing Zenos in Amaurot and it just being a dream and then teasing us about the Ancient stuff only to barely run through the building itself and only giving us a few scenes which raises more questions than answers. Its not that I really disliked it but after it ended I was left with the feeling of it not being enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Averax
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02-20-2020, 08:35 AMBiddyBatnana
I wanted to see that dead Viera :<
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02-20-2020, 09:13 AMMOZZYSTAR
I just want more. It felt a lot shorter than last time. I don't mind errand quests, tbh. My only complaint is "not enough" and "ugh, cliffhanger." (At the same time, I weirdly appreciate cliffhangers.) With one less dungeon, I was kind of expecting more MSQ time...? What exactly did the resources for the second dungeon go to cuz it does feel like we got less this patch, at least atm?
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02-20-2020, 01:20 PMAnimaAnimusI remember way back in 2013, when ARR was just released, I came here to the forums and said something about all the random fetch quests in the msq. I also stated that things like the 20m quests long chain to just get a stupid bottle of wine so we could fight titan was just ridiculous and that its really just not good game design.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renato
And h-o-l-y m-o-l-y the forumers nearly reached through the screen and strangled me were I sat.
"But immersion!" they said.
"But its such great story telling!" they cried.
"It adds so much flavor to the msq!" they decreed.
And now years later SE is changing it up because they knew they messed up. But a couple little quests that give us a more human look at the NPCs and ourselves is perfectly ok.
Just be happy we didn't have to go get a stick, then some grass, then some twine, then go to someone who was a master broom crafter only to be told he was retired but you could go to his protégé, then have that dude tell you he doesn't need that twine but a very special one from a specific spot that's on the other side of the map, which you do then come back to have him emote for 5 minutes out of sheer joy you got the twine, then go y'shtola only to be told you need to repeat the exact same thing for the dustbin before she can clean properly. Because that's how it would have played out in ARR lol -
02-20-2020, 01:22 PMAnimaAnimusThe FFVII reboot that SE is dedicating all their FF resources too currently.Quote:
Originally Posted by MOZZYSTAR
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02-20-2020, 01:23 PMKatalyn
- SE desperately needs to get rid of making the PC run these annoying errands. There is no need for us to come along with Ystola to clean her home. Why couldn't she have returned on her own shown through a cutscene? Go gather people in the Crystarium so we can tell them the truth about the Warriors of Light. Go talk to the soldiers to boost morale. At what point do we actually become the Warrior of Darkness and not the Scion's errand boy/girl?
But fetching the broom gave us a wonderful dialogue choice/interaction with Y’shtola. :D -
02-20-2020, 01:29 PMVenKitsuneThe "Zodiark Storyline" is intergral and linked to every other storyline, inlcluding the garleans. That particular story element wont be fully resolved until the very last expansion of the game, which is atleast 4-6 years away from what we've gathered as they're already working on 6.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renato
@OP
Honestly, i feel like people hype up the patch storys too much...Its a 3 hours, what do you think they can put in a 3 ish hour timeslot of storytelling that also has a recognisable beginning and end, as to not make the players go mad with anticipation for something 3-4 months away no matter how hard they wish?
I'm a writer by trade, Writing a story is not easy, even though at the end of the day its just putting words to a page. if you think you do better, then by all means, go ahead, re-write EVERY scenario and piece of dialogue that was shown in this one patch, and then post it and see what people think.