So the Big Buff to WAR was....

A Shake it off mitigation increase.
*scratches head*
SE, you missed the target with the WAR buff. You could have buffed Nascent flash and made it a bit better of an OT skill with maybe 75% healing on the other tank or increasing its duration.
Could have given small potency buffs to WAR to make up for the DH/Crit it has making it weak in certain compositions. You could have buffed its self healing aspect a bit.
But no... you buffed... the one thing that no one really is going to care about. Shake it off...

Aside from crit/dhit dilemma there were 4 adjustments I was hoping for:

1) Being able to cast NF on myself (obvious)
2) Storm's eye duration extended to 45 seconds
3) Onslaught getting second charge
4) Upheaval damage scaling up with your hp so you can boost it with thrill of battle just like before

I feel bad for warrior players, not being one I really think they needed buffs l. Well SE is known for not giving a sjit about what players want.

No wonder they wouldn't release the patch notes. Wonder how this goes the next few days.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

A Shake it off mitigation increase.
*scratches head*
SE, you missed the target with the WAR buff. You could have buffed Nascent flash and made it a bit better of an OT skill with maybe 75% healing on the other tank or increasing its duration.
Could have given small potency buffs to WAR to make up for the DH/Crit it has making it weak in certain compositions. You could have buffed its self healing aspect a bit.
But no... you buffed... the one thing that no one really is going to care about. Shake it off...

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I suspect the buff was actually to give it more parity with Divine Veil as the buff sacrifice quirk isn't very usable with all the double/split/shared tankbusters in ShB raids necessitating OT usage of cooldowns.

NF isn't actually getting used properly which is likely why they are not buffing it, many ShB changes were done to downplay raid comp benefits, and Self Healing doesn't scale well with fight design (to little and it is useless, to much and it makes the tank immortal)

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Originally Posted by Superstructure

Aside from crit/dhit dilemma there were 4 adjustments I was hoping for:

1) Being able to cast NF on myself (obvious)

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Unlikely as Raw Intuition is what SE intends as Warrior's short cooldown. Nascent Flash is just intended to be the single target assist buff.

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2) Storm's eye duration extended to 45 seconds

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I think the most you can reasonably hope for is 35s.

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3) Onslaught getting second charge

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I don't think any gauge spenders currently get charges.

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4) Upheaval damage scaling up with your hp so you can boost it with thrill of battle just like before

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Unlikely as SE has moved away from abilities that would cause differences in dps when MTing and OTing.

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Originally Posted by Superstructure

Aside from crit/dhit dilemma there were 4 adjustments I was hoping for:

1) Being able to cast NF on myself (obvious)
2) Storm's eye duration extended to 45 seconds
3) Onslaught getting second charge
4) Upheaval damage scaling up with your hp so you can boost it with thrill of battle just like before

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1. This should be done, agreed.
2. While I don't think this is necessary, if it were to happen I think 40 seconds is the highest you could ask for since Samurai got similar changes to its self-buffs in ShB.
3. It works via gauge spending, it will never get charges. There isn't a single instance in the Eden's Gate savage tier where you needed to gap close more than twice in ten seconds, and I doubt there will be one in Eden's Verse.
4. This is a horrendous idea. It's terrible on Spirit's Within for Paladin as well. Let this kind of design die out as it should.

*walks away into the sunset*

Wars definitely needs buffs.
They lost way too much this expansion and gained far too little.
Granted, I actually appreciate the shake it off buff.

I didn’t expect much, but holy shit, I was still disappointed!

Like crap, why Shake it Off? Did they think it would someohow make WAR overtake PLD in party mitigation? Did they forget PLD has 2 party wide skills to reduce damage (not counting reprisal).
1<2.
This buff didn't help WAR at all.

I'm done with ffxiv until MAYBE 6.0.

All I want is for NF to be castable on self. 8 months in and I still can't do it without summoning a chocobo.

It's even worse in PvP. I want to know why a drk can tbn self for 3k shield, a gnb can self aurora for 3k heal every 15 secs and wars need a PARTY member to NF.

Paladins have heals attached to their nukesnfor heals during burst window.

Can wars do that? NOT WITHOUT A PARTY MEMBER.

Can't even do it with an ALLIANCE member.

I know they balance around Feast, but geezus christ, can't SE fix the darn action so it's fun/useable in all situations in Frontlines? How about GET RID of NF for pvp and just put Thrill back in?

I'm tired of getting my hopes up.

Just gonna let my sub lapse. Anyone who is homeless keep an eye out for a small limsa house on Midgardsormr.

Take it. It's yours.

Post summary:
"If warrior isn't the best at all, something is wrong with the game, how you dare SE".

Why should Warrior be the best at all in the game? i dont get it.

Warrior has to be the highest DPS of all the tanks.
Warrior has to have more Defensives than other tanks.
Warrior has to heal more than other Tanks.
Warrior has to bring more Utility than other tanks.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

Post summary:
"If warrior isn't the best at all, something is wrong with the game, how you dare SE".

Why should Warrior be the best at all in the game? i dont get it.

Warrior has to be the highest DPS of all the tanks.
Warrior has to have more Defensives than other tanks.
Warrior has to heal more than other Tanks.
Warrior has to bring more Utility than other tanks.

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Nice straw men

Meanwhile, still looking for posts that detail why War needed the 3% shield back.

I thought for sure they were going to improve storms eye. But nope

I found it funny Yoshi-P was implying adjustments and noted the amount of people flocking to GNB for the higher DPS, and just buffs a mitigation skill.

Granted I love WAR even now and still play it as an alt tank, but need only look at Storm's Eye to understand where we need the changes. Having to do a full single target combo first while mass pulling just feels very clunky to me, especially now that all the tanks have a a natural way of getting their damage ups.

If it were me and I was forced to keep the Storm's Eye rotation in for the buff I would make overpower give a 3-5 second extension and have Mythril keep it's 10 second one. That would at least help with the job and management for big pulls. Single target pulls I think is fine, but when it comes to big pulls I think that's just the stick shift warrior rotation getting stalled.

Honestly past that I think potency buffs would make War totally fine. It's obvious Nascent will stay this way since they dissected Defiance and Steel Cyclone and split it into Thrill (78+) and Nascent.

Take away second person heal from nascent flash and mitigation, make it cast-self only.
Do i ask for too much...

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Take away second person heal from nascent flash and mitigation, make it cast-self only.
Do i ask for too much...

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Yes, because that is the exact opposite of the intent for the ability.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Take away second person heal from nascent flash and mitigation, make it cast-self only.
Do i ask for too much...

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Massively nerf Nascent Flash for what reason, exactly?

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Originally Posted by Superstructure

1) Being able to cast NF on myself (obvious)

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Though, the point of NF is to be WAR's "Help your ally" skill. Much like how a DRK might TBN someone else, a PLD might use Intervention or a GNB might HoS someone else...

The odd part is that WAR actually gets benefit themselves for using it, unlike every other Tank whom sacrifices their own usage of a short CD defensive skill when using it on someone else.

What's even stranger, is that this isn't even WAR's "Self Heal" skill. Like, GNB has Aurora, PLD has Clemency, DRK has Abyssal Fail and WAR has Equilibrium. But then WAR also gets an additional self heal from their skill that mitigates for an ally too?

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2) Storm's eye duration extended to 45 seconds

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Would be nice. Or honestly, make Storm's Eye give 20 Beast Gauge so it feels less sucky to cast it over Storm's Path...

Or better yet, scrap it and bake the 10% damage buff into Warrior's base damage or put it on an independent skill so that it's also not clunky af when preparing to do AoE (Since, requiring a full ST combo chain to get the buff is not particularly intuitive design when every other tank can just go ham on mashing their AoE's without worry)

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3) Onslaught getting second charge

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Could be nice. Though, there was a lot of arguments about this pre-ShB release when we got the info on skills...

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4) Upheaval damage scaling up with your hp so you can boost it with thrill of battle just like before

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I believe this was intentionally removed because 99.99% of the time, ToB was literally just used for the extra DPS from Upheaval. Which is not intended for the defensive CD to be only used as a DPS CD.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Though, the point of NF is to be WAR's "Help your ally" skill. Much like how a DRK might TBN someone else, a PLD might use Intervention or a GNB might HoS someone else...

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The difference is DRK can use TBN on themselves. PLD can use their heal on themselves. I don't care if they sacrifice a GCD for it. Clemency can be spammed to restore ridiculous amounts of HP. TBN is an on-demand shield, compared to NF that is conditioned behind you having either Inner Release or an Infuriate stack in order to be effective.

And I'm glad that you brought up Gunbreaker's Heart of Stone.

Heart of Stone:
Reduces damage taken by a party member or self by 15%.

Wait, what's that? Let's go over that again.

"Reduces damage taken by a party member or self by 15%."

Do you see it yet? Can you spot the unfairness?

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

The difference is DRK can use TBN on themselves. PLD can use their heal on themselves. I don't care if they sacrifice a GCD for it. Clemency can be spammed to restore ridiculous amounts of HP. TBN is an on-demand shield, compared to NF that is conditioned behind you having either Inner Release or an Infuriate stack in order to be effective.

And I'm glad that you brought up Gunbreaker's Heart of Stone.

Heart of Stone:
Reduces damage taken by a party member or self by 15%.

Wait, what's that? Let's go over that again.

"Reduces damage taken by a party member or self by 15%."

Do you see it yet? Can you spot the unfairness?

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NF wasn't designed to be used on self without a target. That's literally why Raw Intuition exists and shares a same cooldown. You want a short recast defensive cooldown? Use RI that's what it's there for, there's your self damage mitigation like Heart of Stone. Do you see it yet? Can you spot how the skills were designed? One is designed to reduce the damage you take and one is designed to reduce damage your ally takes. It just so happens that NF is stupidly strong, and unlike the other Tank defensive cooldowns, actually provides a bonus to the WAR. If a GNB casts HoS on an ally, they don't benefit. If a PLD casts Intervention on an ally, they don't benefit. If a DRK casts TBN on an ally they at best break even on MP cost. WAR? Heals for days in addition to being buddy buddy. It's insane. You're tied with DRK for the strongest ally mitigation tool and you're busy screaming about how you can't use it on yourself. The only thing unfair about NF is how much healing it gives the WAR in addition to the damage reduction and healing it gives their ally.

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

Do you see it yet? Can you spot the unfairness?

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It's an unfairness, sure, but hardly a significant one. The only advantage it notes is that GNB spends only a single button on both its on-demand self- and external-mitigation tools.

It's a pittance compared to GNB's higher external mitigation floor relative to Intervention and Nascent Flash, and does nothing to compensate for its lower percentile ceiling relative to Intervention or throughput ceiling relative to Nascent Flash. It's handy, but it's in the realm of QoL.

Now, I'm all for NF no longer requiring a target, but let's be frank -- using it, ever, without a target is just a means of freely nerfing oneself by wasting the opportunity for a 25% lifesteal effect (albeit to someone else) and 10% mitigation (again, to someone else) for 6 seconds.

Now, if we wanted to take a cue from GNB and remove RI completely in favor of reworking NF into a more unique but versatile ability -- by all means. Or we could allow WAR and PLD both a bit more choice relative to GNB and DRK by making both Intervention and NF self-targetable while being far more significantly varied from their alternates (perhaps NF could be pure healing, while increasing maximum HP with its would-be overhealing, to a point, while Shelltron could apply a %HP shield and automatically block all enemy attacks until the shield is consumed). Whatever. I'd be happier with either of those than what we have now. Though I'll admit that has less to do with 'fairness' (insofar as such a small matter as NF vs. HoS) as just plain efficient and/or fun design.

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

Do you see it yet? Can you spot the unfairness?

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PLD self CD: Shelltron
PLD ally CD: Intervention

DRK self CD: The Blackest Night
DRK ally CD: The Blackest Night

GNB self CD: Heart of Stone
GNB ally CD: Heart of Stone

WAR self CD: Raw Intuition
WAR ally CD: Nascent Flash

Do you see it yet? Can you spot the unfairness?

I'll highlight it for you:

WAR self CD: Raw Intuition

The Warriors self CD is supposed to be Raw Intuition. However, where the qualms are coming from about "Needing an ally to target NF" is that WAR's ALLY SKILL is far superior for THEIR OWN defence than their actually dedicated self target CD this is in ADDITION to its ally benefits.

"Oh, but HoS only uses one action bar space"

So does TBN...

...and NF apparently, since NF being used as WAR's self skill due to the high throughput healing it provides, hence complaints of "Needing an ally to target"

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

PLD can use their heal on themselves. I don't care if they sacrifice a GCD for it.

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You don't care that Paladin has to spend a GCD and mp, and damage, three sacrifices just to heal, while Warrior, requiring an ally to use NF is the trade-off for such a busted amount of healing for FREE. But you are crying over requiring a target or needing to use a macro....screams nothing but gross entitlement. Quit crying about it, every tank has to deal with targetting macro, look at Shirk, most common shared targetting macro among tanks. At least NF works even if NF macro gets delayed too late to mitigate the damage, Intervention, TBN or HoS applying after the damage, makes them pointless, except mitigate a couple autos maybe, while DRK suffers a 3k mp loss if it doesn't break in it's duration.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

...and NF apparently, since NF being used as WAR's self skill due to the high throughput healing it provides, hence complaints of "Needing an ally to target"

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Which isn't actually helping mitigate the damage they take. Its kind of annoying that they can get away with this since tankbusters are spread out enough that Holmgang, Thrill of Battle, Rampart and Vengeance can cover every tankbuster without needing Raw Intuition. They would likely be content if Raw Intuition wasn't mitigation and it was the old Bloodbath.

If anything, I would rather have the Nascent Glint effect entirely removed from Nascent Flash and have Raw Intuition instead be usable on an ally target. This way the Warrior would have to actively choose between a burst of healing on themselves or giving damage mitigation to a party member, and I believe that this makes more sense than RI being their personal CD and NF being their ally CD because self-healing and self-sustain has always been Warrior's thing, so it makes more sense to me for them to be able to burst heal their own HP while only giving flat mitigation to a party member.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Which isn't actually helping mitigate the damage they take. Its kind of annoying that they can get away with this since tankbusters are spread out enough that Holmgang, Thrill of Battle, Rampart and Vengeance can cover every tankbuster without needing Raw Intuition. They would likely be content if Raw Intuition wasn't mitigation and it was the old Bloodbath.

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Well, if it was NEEDED for them to have an extra 20% DR CD, then GNB would be unviable due to not only HoS only being 15% DR, but Camouflage also only being 10% DR (With a chance to parry for 15% reduction) and PLD doesn't have a ~20% CD akin to ToB/Camo/Dark Mind...

Since, you can only balance content around the lowest common denominator (I.e. The Tank with the crappiest defence tools)

That said, Tanks could probably do with fewer, but more potent defensive CD's. Given that Reprisal + Rampart + 30% skill + invuln skill + ToB/Camo/DM + short CD skill is a bit overkill for content which only deals actually meaningful damage like once per minute via TB's... Not even factoring in, that you actually get 2x all of these skills per raid due to having 2 tanks that can swap aggro...

Like, the only time where there's damage consistently high enough to warrant using multiple CD's... Is Trash mobs... Which are only found in Dungeons these days. Even then, many newer dungeons are hard blocking the path so people won't just pull 10 packs at once and AoE nuke down with CD's up and the plethora of oGCD heals available to Green DPS.

Since as it is at the moment, we have enough tools to cover a situation where you need to perma-roll a defensive CD... But incoming damage is designed to not require anything of the sort (Heck, I'm pretty sure in normal raids you can survive most if not all TB's without using a CD at all, only being Savage where CD's are necessary)

This is all before even factoring in OT CD's (Which to be fair, they have no hope of balancing around. Between their crummy macro system and reliance on letting people access content via Duty Finder, a scenario where OT's are required to aid the MT through a buster is a recipe for disaster)

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Since as it is at the moment, we have enough tools to cover a situation where you need to perma-roll a defensive CD... But incoming damage is designed to not require anything of the sort (Heck, I'm pretty sure in normal raids you can survive most if not all TB's without using a CD at all, only being Savage where CD's are necessary)

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I'm pretty certain that would require a lot of luck with Block/Parry procs or being i500.

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This is all before even factoring in OT CD's (Which to be fair, they have no hope of balancing around. Between their crummy macro system and reliance on letting people access content via Duty Finder, a scenario where OT's are required to aid the MT through a buster is a recipe for disaster)

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The protect other cooldowns are not meant for protecting tanks they were intended to reduce the damage taken by dps and healers from dps/healer busters.

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

Do you see it yet? Can you spot the unfairness?

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Originally Posted by Kalise

I'll highlight it for you:

WAR self CD: Raw Intuition

The Warriors self CD is supposed to be Raw Intuition. However, where the qualms are coming from about "Needing an ally to target NF" is that WAR's ALLY SKILL is far superior for THEIR OWN defence than their actually dedicated self target CD this is in ADDITION to its ally benefits.

"Oh, but HoS only uses one action bar space"

So does TBN...

...and NF apparently, since NF being used as WAR's self skill due to the high throughput healing it provides, hence complaints of "Needing an ally to target"

---

Would this suffice?

General Changes

• Critical Strikes no longer bypass Block and Parry.
• Effect chances in excess of 100% now instead increase the potency of the effect instead. For instance, a 120% chance of a +50% damage Critical Hit will become a 100% chance of a +60% damage Critical Hit. (This mostly just increases Warrior throughput.)

Paladin

Shelltron - Generates a shield equal to 12% of your maximum HP. While active, you block all attacks against you. This shield lasts a maximum of 6 seconds.

This equates to a 15% eHP shield, minus wasted block chance, and can, as per the PLD theme, be extended by other CDs. Its largest feature is that the strike that breaks the shield is still fully mitigated by the block, meaning that it can exceed the simple 15% eHP increase.

Intervention - Reduces the damage that you or your target party member take by half of your existing damage reduction effects (including Tank Mastery). Cannot be used on self while Shelltron is active. Cannot share the effect of Hallowed Ground.

This exceeds the value of Shelltron where at least Rampart is active and you would have taken damage in excess of your maximum HP. More importantly, it can be used on others. It's especially effective when used in pairing with CDs meant to extend Shelltron.

Warrior

Raw Intuition - Reduces damage taken by 20% for 6 seconds.

Unchanged. Straightforward.

Nascent Flash - Affects you or your target party member with Nascent Glint, causing your or their current and maximum HP to be increased by 40% of your damage dealt over 7 seconds. The portion of damage dealt converted to increased maximum HP decreases rapidly as it exceeds one's normal maximum %HP.

Rather than offering you either its "MT" or "OT" component freely bundled with its opposite, Nascent Flash now forces you to choose between using the skill on oneself or on one's ally. It's weaker as a self-mitigation tool than Raw Intuition, but can allow the Warrior to prepare for a minor tankbuster with an Inner Chaos and then heal self or target back up with the remainder of the duration, or burst in preparation for a tankbuster as to prevent their co-tank from being one-shot. It has a higher throughput ceiling than most OT skills, but like Intervention it requires far more setup to utilize its potential.

Reducing burstiness: Fell Cleave increased to 620 (+30) potency, while Inner Chaos is reduced to 820 potency (-100). [This is mostly flat over a long continuous-uptime fight.] Decimate increased to 280 potency (+30), while Chaotic Cyclone has been reduced to 380 (-20). [This just, again, gives a bit less focus on just the Chaos skills.] Note: the changes to guaranteed chances will already make the Chaos skills noticeably stronger during Crit / DHit raid buffs, improving their damage while normalizing their gameplay and allowing Warrior to use the same stats as all other tanks.

Or....

General Changes

• Critical Strikes no longer bypass Block and Parry.
• Effect chances in excess of 100% now instead increase the potency of the effect instead. For instance, a 120% chance of a +50% damage Critical Hit will become a 100% chance of a +60% damage Critical Hit. (This mostly just increases Warrior throughput.)

Paladin

Aegis Boon- Generates a shield equal to 12% of your maximum HP to self or target party member. While active, reduce he damage of all attacks against you or the target as if blocked. This shield lasts a maximum of 6 seconds.

This equates to a 15% eHP shield, minus wasted block chance, and can, as per the PLD theme, be extended by other CDs. Its largest feature is that the strike that breaks the shield is still fully mitigated by the block, meaning that it can exceed the simple 15% eHP increase.

Bulwark - Affects self or target party member with Bulwark for 6 seconds. Bulwark Effect: Duplicates at 50% strength the greater of all existing effects on self or target that reduce damage taken, including shields, increased chance of bonus mitigation, and % damage reduction. Lasts 6 seconds.

If you or your target have a ton of CDs up and are about to take heavy damage, use Bulwark since it has a higher effect ceiling. Otherwise, use the skill with the higher mitigation floor, Shelltron.

Warrior

Raw Intuition - Reduces the damage that you or your target party member take by 20%. Range: 8 yalms.

Your straightforward mitigation option, but usable on self OR a party member. Only reaches as far as Overpower, so you'll have to seem more or less in range to do something yourself to protect someone with Raw Intuition.

Nascent Flash - Affects you or your target party member with Nascent Glint, causing your or their current and maximum HP to be increased by 40% of your damage dealt over 7 seconds. The portion of damage dealt converted to increased maximum HP decreases rapidly as it exceeds one's normal maximum %HP.

As above, it has the higher throughput maximum, but requires more setup in terms of CDs, gauge, and time.

Reducing burstiness: Fell Cleave increased to 620 (+30) potency, while Inner Chaos is reduced to 820 potency (-100). [This is mostly flat over a long continuous-uptime fight.] Decimate increased to 280 potency (+30), while Chaotic Cyclone has been reduced to 380 (-20). [This just, again, gives a bit less focus on just the Chaos skills.] Note: the changes to guaranteed chances will already make the Chaos skills noticeably stronger during Crit / DHit raid buffs, improving their damage while normalizing their gameplay and allowing Warrior to use the same stats as all other tanks.

Gunbreaker

• Brutal Shell revised. Rather than self-healing, Brutal Shell will now afflict its target with Shell Shock, reducing their damage dealt by half of Brutal Shell's damage dealt. Shell Shock is consumed as it decreases damage dealt but otherwise accumulates indefinitely.
• New trait, The Best Defense..., added at level 40. It causes all cartridge-consuming skills to likewise benefit from Shell Shock.
• Heart of Stone buffed. In addition to decreasing you or your target's damage taken by 12%, it now causes generates shielding for you or your target equal to half your damage dealt by skills that generate Shell Shock. Only the first hit of any multi-target attack will generate shielding.
• Camouflage revised. It now grants a 50% Parry chance and 10% increased Dodge chance. (This still supplies exactly 19% mitigation, but in a more thematic manner. The 10% mitigation was never enough to make the difference between life and death anyways, and HoS has been buffed to compensate anyways, while further Camo buffs via later traits will help to make up for GNB's relatively poor AoE damage.)
• New trait, Flash of Steel added at level 52. When an enemy afflicted by Shell Shock attacks you while Camouflage is active, they have a chance proportionate to their damage mitigated to be dodged or parried. Additionally, Camouflage now causes you to counterattack for 50 potency whenever you dodge or parry. (This helps GNB draw in some of its slack in AoE, and in a fun way.)
• To compensate, Bow Shock is now on the GCD and shares a cooldown with Sonic Break, but Bow Shock and Sonic Break now deal 100 potency per tick and Bow Shock's direct potency has been increased to 300. This reduces its in-raid potency by 150 per minute, or 250 potency per 90 seconds, enough to make up for the 4-6 parries against the boss (worth 200 to 300 potency) likely to occur over Camouflage's duration every 90 seconds.

Dark Knight

• The Blackest Night reduced to 20% shielding. (This may actually be a buff, in that it will be made easier to "pop" at a higher frequency in serious content than it will be rendered unable to save. Total throughput over a given fight may actually increase while frustrations decrease.)
• Bloodspiller and Quietus now always generate 200 and 500 MP, respectively. That effect has been removed from Delirium. Slightly increases potency per minute.
• Blood Weapon duration increased to 11 seconds.

Yall will be alright, just shake it off.