Moogle Tomestones problem with Rival Wings

ok there is a major problem with Rival Wings with the moogle tomestones, there is a large number of people not even trying to win when they join because they get moogle tomestones regardless so they let the enemy team win. I propose that you only get moogle tomestones from winning the same as how in dungeons you only get them when you complete the dungeon. I hope it would make people actually try to win instead of just letting the enemy team win because they couldn't care less because they are getting their tomestones regardless.

you won't have this problem in a week lol

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

you won't have this problem in a week lol

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This. Then people can go back to complaining how this mode never pops anymore except during 2 hour windows on weekends.

Then people who care about tomes might as well just do the dungeons and let RW die based on your suggestion because it'll be the same if not better farm rate lol. I mean you can do Aurum Vale in like 15minutes, A RW game is anywhere between 10-20 and games the same tomes. 15mins for 5 guaranteed tomes is gonna beat a 10-15min rw game for a CHANCE at 5 tomes.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

Then people who care about tomes might as well just do the dungeons and let RW die based on your suggestion because it'll be the same if not better farm rate lol. I mean you can do Aurum Vale in like 15minutes, A RW game is anywhere between 10-20 and games the same tomes. 15mins for 5 guaranteed tomes is gonna beat a 10-15min rw game for a CHANCE at 5 tomes.

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Thats the point, if there is no guaranteed tomes, it will keep the tome farmers out. This happened yesterday:

https://i.imgur.com/YYNAQbe.png

If they throw a match, RW can be done in 6-8 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

Thats the point, if there is no guaranteed tomes, it will keep the tome farmers out. This happened yesterday:

https://i.imgur.com/YYNAQbe.png

If they throw a match, RW can be done in 6-8 minutes.

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No that's not the point, the point is your mode dies.

Yes, soon you will not need to worry about it.
Majority of NA community simply doesn't understand the core concept of this mode to play it.
It will be dead once 5.2 patch goes alive.
If you want to play some good Rival Wing match after 5.2, you have to either go to JP data centre or wait until that discord to organize an event for people there to play (not to farm) at weekend.

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Originally Posted by Rifaran_Farronhart

ok there is a major problem with Rival Wings with the moogle tomestones, there is a large number of people not even trying to win when they join because they get moogle tomestones regardless so they let the enemy team win. I propose that you only get moogle tomestones from winning the same as how in dungeons you only get them when you complete the dungeon. I hope it would make people actually try to win instead of just letting the enemy team win because they couldn't care less because they are getting their tomestones regardless.

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Any pops this week with out mogtomes?

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Any pops this week with out mogtomes?

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Only on JP; and even then it's very slow cos new content KEKW

This was the first time I got to play lots of games each evening. It still didn't pop during the day.
There is so much to learn in there, and what you need to be doing seems to shift as the game advances and different elements come into play.

There is a difference though between people doing badly, and people not doing at all.
Perhaps some contribution threshold put in place might help with the issue in future.

With front line having lost its team/faction feel I no longer do it; so it was nice to get into something new.

It used to be when I unlocked the mode I'd be in que all day, nothing, eventually gave up.

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Originally Posted by Covfefe

With front line having lost its team/faction feel I no longer do it; so it was nice to get into something new.

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Serious question or morbid curiosity take your pick. Its ok that rival wings has two teams not tied to GCs. But it is not ok that frontlines removed them knowing the problems they created? And trust me I actually miss seeing the same people in ARR and HWs. You are lucky if people say hello when you type it and I can't be on that many blists.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Serious question or morbid curiosity take your pick. Its ok that rival wings has two teams not tied to GCs. But it is not ok that frontlines removed them knowing the problems they created? And trust me I actually miss seeing the same people in ARR and HWs. You are lucky if people say hello when you type it and I can't be on that many blists.

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Because we've always been randomised in RW, but we could always play on the same GC in FLs. It's a drastic change.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Serious question or morbid curiosity take your pick. Its ok that rival wings has two teams not tied to GCs. But it is not ok that frontlines removed them knowing the problems they created? And trust me I actually miss seeing the same people in ARR and HWs. You are lucky if people say hello when you type it and I can't be on that many blists.

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Because one is a patriotic team that has to do with "Coin and Country!".
It is integrated into who my character is.
It is also integrated into the game mode itself.

The other, is just laid out as a color in an entertainment PVP mode instead of a real "warzone".

It is like the difference between cheering for a football team and fighting for a country.
You can change football teams but still be in the same country.
You fight for a different country? There might not even be football anymore...

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

Because we've always been randomised in RW, but we could always play on the same GC in FLs. It's a drastic change.

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GC matchmaking made matches one-sided. It gave newcomers a bad first impression of PvP in general.

People complain that the PvP playerbase is so small all the time. It’s not really inviting for new players when the most active mode doesn’t have a fair matchmaking system.

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Originally Posted by Covfefe

Because one is a patriotic team that has to do with "Coin and Country!".
It is integrated into who my character is.
It is also integrated into the game mode itself.

The other, is just laid out as a color in an entertainment PVP mode instead of a real "warzone".

It is like the difference between cheering for a football team and fighting for a country.
You can change football teams but still be in the same country.
You fight for a different country? There might not even be football anymore...

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See and this is my problem. This is all stuff people have added in their head. We get a few lines of dialogue and then nothing. If they had actually implemented something to go along with this strange patriotic feeling people have I might understand it more. It is funny you mention football. Because I didn't want to mention it. But the feeling I get of people who are attached to GCs is the same as the people who go to far when attached to a sports team.

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Originally Posted by OskarXCI

GC matchmaking made matches one-sided. It gave newcomers a bad first impression of PvP in general.

People complain that the PvP playerbase is so small all the time. It’s not really inviting for new players when the most active mode doesn’t have a fair matchmaking system.

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Three teams, two will lose.

The fundamental principal of that mode is that even with even match making you will lose twice as much as you win.

And even match making is not something that is possible because stronger players do not get stronger abilities that make up for the players they end up que-ed with.
This attempt results in the most average team winning and the strongest players being paired with a larger pool of weaker players that are guaranteed to lose.
Notice after the adjustments the complaints about matching making? This is because a match making that tries to make complainers of unfair matchmaking happy must put the worst players together on a team in an attempt to balance a few best players.
The end result, bam, splat.

It was a lot more fun before the que-changes.
Before the changes, if you were a low rated player there was still a chance of ending up on a mostly stacked team.
Under the current system, if you are a low rated player, you'll end up with lots of other low rated players on a team formed to balance a higher rated player that can't solo a 72 player mode.

Moonlite, I suppose you don't Role Play?

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Originally Posted by OskarXCI

GC matchmaking made matches one-sided. It gave newcomers a bad first impression of PvP in general.

People complain that the PvP playerbase is so small all the time. It’s not really inviting for new players when the most active mode doesn’t have a fair matchmaking system.

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Like there hasn't been a dominant faction in PvP in every game lol. From someone that's brought new players to PvP, the GC balancing isn't their problem, they didn't take issue with losing, they just thought the 1v1v1 concept was atrocious and much preferred Rival Wings.

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Originally Posted by Covfefe

It was a lot more fun before the que-changes.
Before the changes, if you were a low rated player there was still a chance of ending up on a mostly stacked team.
Under the current system, if you are a low rated player, you'll end up with lots of other low rated players on a team formed to balance a higher rated player that can't solo a 72 player mode.

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All I hear is people here complaining that they can no longer GC stack and bulldoze over the other teams. Very unsportsmanlike behavior. The winrate will now be closer to 33% for everyone and not some having 80% while others have 15% or lower.

Forced Freelancer results in shorter queue times. That alone makes the current system better.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

Like there hasn't been a dominant faction in PvP in every game lol.

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So trying to improve matchmaking is a waste of time?

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Originally Posted by OskarXCI

All I hear is people here complaining that they can no longer GC stack and bulldoze over the other teams. Very unsportsmanlike behavior. The winrate will now be closer to 33% for everyone and not some having 80% while others have 15% or lower.

Forced Freelancer results in shorter queue times. That alone makes the current system better.



So trying to improve matchmaking is a waste of time?

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I have a 22.2% win rate as an Immortal Flame. 117 Matches.

You know what? About half those wins were awesome when they happened.
As in, take a screenshot for the folder awesome.
Under the current system, the elation of winning from the underdog country will never again be known.
This is an exaggeration, but imagine being a team Jamaica beating team Canada in Olympic Ice Hockey.
Well, if you "re balanced" all the players to all the countries; would people care to enter the olympics as much?
Would people care to watch as much?
Surely it would become hollow without the foundation of countries.

Under the new system it still will not balance out; because the people at the bottom will be grouped together to balance the ratings at the top.
They will go on a long losing cycle because of this, and quit. The bottom will keep getting replaced while those that bubble up in winning streaks will persevere through that losing streak.

The end result will be people still complaining of losing too much.

The only solution for this kind of person is one team, and fighting against scripted opponents so that everyone wins.

My love is to build things, not to destroy them.
So what if some people work together to win more - they built that.
Why destroy it? Why not enjoy the building and creating process.

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Originally Posted by OskarXCI

Forced Freelancer results in shorter queue times. That alone makes the current system better.
So trying to improve matchmaking is a waste of time?

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Better?
You are referring to the situation where I have to suffer because of people trying to play for PvE Objective in a PvP mode?
Such as calling for a S rank node when this GC only need 50 more points to win?
Better?
I would rather to have the original pvp community size

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Originally Posted by OskarXCI

All I hear is people here complaining that they can no longer GC stack and bulldoze over the other teams. Very unsportsmanlike behavior. The winrate will now be closer to 33% for everyone and not some having 80% while others have 15% or lower.

Forced Freelancer results in shorter queue times. That alone makes the current system better.



So trying to improve matchmaking is a waste of time?

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Pretty much, Adders dominated for the first few weeks of Onsal, and then like what happened to Maelstrom, started tanking hard because loads of leeches went to Adders to get carried to easier wins, which in turn meant Flames and Mael were able to get a lot of games back from them. To cap it off, Adders obviously had longer queues times (which some adders players circumvented by queueing freelance just so they could play, even if it meant a loss) and because people had swapped to them, they were stuck there, which freed up a lot of good players to swap OUT of Adders, and the cycle would have continued if forced freelancer wasn't a thing. In like the last 2 weeks of GCs meaning anything before forced freelancer, Flames were absolutely murdering Adders on Light. Like before forced freelancer, my winrate was actually better on Flames in FLs than it has been since the change, even though statistically we've always been one of the worst GCs with the few players that are half good at PvP turning freelancer on.

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Originally Posted by Covfefe

TL;DR

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You sure go a long way of trying to justify uneven teams.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Better?
You are referring to the situation where I have to suffer because of people trying to play for PvE Objective in a PvP mode?
Such as calling for a S rank node when this GC only need 50 more points to win?
Better?
I would rather to have the original pvp community size

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Situations like that can very much happen for an opposing team.

It's now random. It can happen to you, it can happen to others.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

Pretty much, Adders dominated for the first few weeks of Onsal, and then like what happened to Maelstrom, started tanking hard because loads of leeches went to Adders to get carried to easier wins, which in turn meant Flames and Mael were able to get a lot of games back from them. To cap it off, Adders obviously had longer queues times (which some adders players circumvented by queueing freelance just so they could play, even if it meant a loss) and because people had swapped to them, they were stuck there, which freed up a lot of good players to swap OUT of Adders, and the cycle would have continued if forced freelancer wasn't a thing. In like the last 2 weeks of GCs meaning anything before forced freelancer, Flames were absolutely murdering Adders on Light. Like before forced freelancer, my winrate was actually better on Flames in FLs than it has been since the change, even though statistically we've always been one of the worst GCs with the few players that are half good at PvP turning freelancer on.

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So keep track of which GC is dominating on what data center? Feels like too much of a hassle and a lot of uneven matches. Force Freelancer and be done with it. (what they did).

PVP is Player vs Player.
Players are uneven.
Teams are made out of players.
Team PVP will be uneven.

Players can improve themselves.
It is good to allow players to stack.
This encourages improvement.

I like to fight against the dominant que.
It makes me better.
I also understand why people want to arrange a dominant que.
For them, it is a different form of improvement than what I seek.
Let them, I embrace a different challenge.

If however, you determine fairness not availability of choosing correct control inputs, but by result that disregards the choices of control inputs then that is a path to innervation and death.

If the goal is for all to win the same amount, then what point is there in doing any more than showing up, not caring, letting the time run out, and collect the reward.
What those wanting all players to have the same win ratio should seek is a game mode where score is assigned randomly on equal chances each tick no matter what the players do.

I'd only show up to a mode like that while doing some other work and mostly afk.
If I want to sit at a screen and controls and play I want what I do to matter.
Prior, it did. I did see my win rate go up from the underdog team.
I did get to see the overall quality of my grand company improve by investing time and effort typing encouragement and looking to a better next moment.

No point now. Growth of those beside me is no longer is structured to improve the world around me.
If equality of outcome is valued over incentive to grow the way to the former will be through tearing down.

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Originally Posted by OskarXCI

Situations like that can very much happen for an opposing team.

It's now random. It can happen to you, it can happen to others.

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You did get what you want and force veterans to went through painful experiences to carry those who are not willing to learn. Just don’t get on your high horse and calling everyone for simply dislike the idea.

To ask for for fairness in PvP is absurd to begin with. It is player vs player, not against a preprogrammed AI. There is no equal and only good players, ok players but willing to learn, and bad players want “fairness” because they are not willing to learn

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Originally Posted by OskarXCI

So keep track of which GC is dominating on what data center? Feels like too much of a hassle and a lot of uneven matches. Force Freelancer and be done with it. (what they did).

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Not sure if you've misinterpreted what I said or what, but please elaborate. I was better off being on the same GC every game even though it wasn't particularly stacked than I am now under the random system where I can win a ton of games in one day and then win like 2 over the spam of 2 weeks.

Preemptive bump so the people can complain about Mogtomes in their PvP. Also reading back we kind of ignored the OP after a few posts and discussed something else.


Back to regularly schedule rant. "How dare they help ques pop!" "I prefer infinite ques to seeing bad players."

PvP dead for weeks on end, people complain.

Se get queues popping, 'wtf se, people are pvping and they all suck!'

Manufactured problem, get over it.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

you can do Aurum Vale in like 15minutes

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actually blu party can farm 5 tomes from aurum every 5m or even faster as i remember

Rewarding losing and winning the same way...Was never a good idea.

Maybe reward considerable more moogle things if the match is longer duration wise. So it doesn't matter how long it gets and is actually beneficial for your farming.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

You did get what you want and force veterans to went through painful experiences to carry those who are not willing to learn. Just don’t get on your high horse and calling everyone for simply dislike the idea.

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If you want to dominate in a premade party full of veterans, play in the next Light Party Feast Season. Or participate when the PvPaissa discord server organizes tournaments.

Mixing premade parties and solo queuers in the same matchmaking for Frontline isn't really balanced. But, understandably, premades was reduced to 4 players. And I say this as someone who were doing 8-man premades when it was possible.

I think there are people not only necro a thread already expired their purpose but also having difficulty to get the memo that there are people dislike all free lancer mode and prefer to old solid GC vs GC vs GC thing. At least with old GC thing I can make people learn to play instead is dealing with PvE hero’s that do not pay attention to map and blindly chasing for useless objective. Don’t tell me you never heave that match where one GC only need 100 points to win but a PvE hero called a S tier spawn because he thinks that mattets

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

I think there are people not only necro a thread already expired their purpose

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This thread has continued purpose. It's better to use an existing one than make a new one.

If you think that is bad wait until people start leaving in mass when their team starts losing even a little bit. Then you get dragged into a losing game and have to either quit or play though it.

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Originally Posted by Silverwing1109

If you think that is bad wait until people start leaving in mass when their team starts losing even a little bit. Then you get dragged into a losing game and have to either quit or play though it.

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This is why GC vs GC is an outdated concept.
Once a game is lost it is a lost.
GC vs GC vs GC on other hand prevent one GC dominating for most of time; but this is something a lot of WoW boys do not undertand

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

This is why GC vs GC is an outdated concept.
Once a game is lost it is a lost.
GC vs GC vs GC on other hand prevent one GC dominating for most of time; but this is something a lot of WoW boys do not undertand

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I would rather just lose a game quickly and start a new one if my team is clearly not as good as the opposing one, personally. The Brute Justice in Rival Wings can be a definite equalizer if people know what to do with them though, so I don't write things off as a lost cause too quickly and always let things play out regardless. Pushing lanes with a BJ is better then rushing the core unless the enemy team is over-committing somewhere as you're both generating tons of fuel and putting pressure on the opposing team by killing the enemy mammets and moving your own mammets down the lanes much faster then players can.

I find the frontlnes dynamic frustrating because while it theoretically can prevent one team from dominating, the "play for second" mentality is woefully common and often leads to second and third place fighting each other while first place keeps pulling further ahead.

I do enjoy it, the more frequent pops make it way more fun and smt its really engaging and fun. smt its a lost cause but overall its 50/50 which is MORE FUN to me then fightin 2 teams. And i do enjoy that kills dont matter. I want a "normal" pvp mode with that too.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

I think there are people not only necro a thread already expired their purpose

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No it hasn't lol this is still an issue. We could learn a lot from the JP boards, for a start, the fact they don't make 20 posts to complain about the same issue.