What this game should do to increase longevity

Here's what I would suggest this game could do to prevent its endgame community to be reduced into oblivion with upcoming expansions.

End the story. Before you pick up your pitchforks, I don't mean that the game should stop being focused around a main story, just that this current storyline we've been through should end by next expansion. Everything from ARR to whatever next expansion will be could be seen as 1 saga, so instead of ending with a cliffhanger, next expansion should then end with a conclusive and satisfying ending to the saga. Expansion after that we start with a whole new saga and a new storyline.

With "new" I mean really new (story wise, not progression). All new characters and new story, maybe just a few references to the old one here and there but nothing significant. It should be completely standing on its own legs and not require previous story elements to be enjoyed fully. The only thing that should be carried from the old story is the fact that you're a very experienced veteran warrior of light. Offer free level boost to whatever level the next expansion goes or the new saga starts (with purchase of expansion/game).

This way any newcomers who want to can experience the old saga from the beginning, or decide to start latest expansion with the new saga. I'm sure many mmo fans will prefer to start with the most relevant saga and not go through hundreds of hours of graphic novel to reach it. What's great is that you can also do both with newgame+. Start from the new saga with level boost and go progress through the old one sometimes whenever you feel like it with newgame+.

I doubt older content will be be able to stay as relevant for long with just the roulettes, which is frustrating in this game because many of those instances are mandatory for MSQ progression. To remedy this I suggest they add a nerfed solo option for all mandatory MSQ instances. Should be really easy to do by just messing with the numbers.

The way I see it, they have to either go this way or release a whole new MMO soon (either way they will probably release new MMO in foreseeable future), unless you either disagree or have another idea (let me know). The more MSQ keeps stacking up with each expansion, the less new player friendly this game is becoming and I think this will become a problem, if it isn't already.

edit: With new characters I meant story characters (like alphinaud etc.), not your own character. Your character would remain the same and keep all progression of course.

-------------

edit2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SamRF

The endgame community will get less and less newcomers if things go forward the same way. The MSQ is stacking with each expansion, it already takes hundreds of hours to reach endgame. Players at endgame will stop playing for variety of reasons (bored, switching game, dying irl) while there will be less and less new players coming into the endgame because they're stuck in ever increasing MSQ. I'm sure many players don't make it past the MSQ and stop playing (long) before reaching endgame, a few 100 hours is a lot of dedication.

To give an example, I can't imagine the average WoW player who is used to fast combat having the patience to go through those hundreds of hours of MSQ to get the point when combat will start getting faster and more interesting. Hell, they might not even have the patience to reach lvl 50 with how incredibly slow combat is in this game in lower levels. If they use a story boost right now, they won't enjoy or understand latest expansion because they didn't experience past story and character development. This is why I suggest starting a new saga so there's a point you could safely level boost your character to while still being able to enjoy and understand given story.

---

edit3:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SamRF

I'd say have 2 or maybe 3 expansions for 1 saga. Give free level boost to the start of each saga. E.g. current saga ends at 6.0 --> 2nd saga starts 6.0 and will end 8.0 --> only give free boost to start of 6.0, even when current expac is 7.0.

Boost to the start of latest saga, not the latest expansion.

---

How does this, in any way, increase longevity? FFXIV is not hurting whatsoever when it comes to active subscriptions. In fact, Shadowbringers brought in record numbers. Evidently, new players had no issue going through the "graphic novel." Setting us back to ground zero is far more likely to push players away not invite more. Now they have to re-establish everything yet with the same protagonist and core concept of them being the Warrior of Light. And no, there is precisely zero chance they will even consider a "new" protagonist option. That would royally piss off players.

This game suffers from a lack of longevity in its gameplay content. Story, on the other hand, has seldom been an issue. ARR stands as the whole exception, which is understandable given they had to rush 2.0 out the door. It's also why they're going back and trimming it down come 5.3.

I'm fine with starting over only because it might provide opportunity to rework the starting experience, including in terms of classes/jobs (maybe get rid of classes or make them separate jobs in the future) as well as the GC system (it probably undermines frontline).

But that's about it. I think if people want to skip the story/leveling, they can just buy a jump potion.

Well I do think some parts of it are getting old I do think We are ready for a new phase of the story with no more scions no more Empire annoyence and just honestly like a fresh content with no ties to the older stuff it was fun but honestly its getting old. the Empire is like we are all gaint losers that cant use magic so we build large robots and fight because the empire is really inferior lol and the scions are like "oh this person in trouble lets help them blah blah "

Heck to the no. If I am starting new it's gonna be a new FF MMORPG not FFXIV. I have thousands of hours on my character. Not gonna happen. If I had to start new, I would just stop playing the game.

Once again, I am so glad the developers do not come to these forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Heck to the no. If I am starting new it's gonna be a new FF MMORPG not FFXIV. I have thousands of hours on my character. Not gonna happen. If I had to start new, I would just stop playing the game.

---

I think he means start like a new chap of the story with fresh content and characters/enemeys not new start on the character. thats what I took from it anyways so it would be we keep all our level all our expereince all our ic history and move to a new world or content with no old characters/ old enemys.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LolitaBansheeMeru

I think he means start like a new chap of the story with fresh content and characters/enemeys not new start on the character. thats what I took from it anyways so it would be we keep all our level all our expereince all our ic history and move to a new world or content with no old characters/ old enemys.

---

Yeah, worthless. Why would I want to start new, and relevel all of my classes. They could just release a new chapter with all that stuff, and everyone can join regardless. Starting "new" makes literally no sense. If they wanted everyone at an even footing there are way better alternatives than "starting new".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, worthless. Why would I want to start new, and relevel all of my classes. They could just release a new chapter with all that stuff, and everyone can join regardless. Starting "new" makes literally no sense. If they wanted everyone at an even footing there are way better alternatives than "starting new".

---

I don't think you are understanding the words so I'll explain it in small words.

so lets say currently are max is 80 lets say we go to a new world no old enemeys and characters we would be TRAVELING THAT WORLD as level 80s lol not level 1s so there would be no releveling just story/enemy wise would be fresh not the character lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LolitaBansheeMeru

I don't think you are understanding the words so I'll explain it in small words.

so lets say currently are max is 80 lets say we go to a new world no old enemeys and characters we would be TRAVELING THAT WORLD as level 80s lol not level 1s so there would be no releveling just story/enemy wise would be fresh not the character lol

---

Yeah, what happens to progression? It completely disappears, since I am allowed to join and none of my levels matter? How do skills work, are they all unlocked at level 1 for those players joining? If that is the case then this OP has a non-thread, because Yoshida has been wanting to drop the story for awhile (rather finish this storyline), plus they have said they are going to rework ARR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SamRF

Yes that's what I meant. I thought it would be obvious with the suggestion of a free level boost.

---

So everyone "starts" fresh with one free level boost. So levels do still matter, players just get a free one. What exactly are you suggesting ARR 2? You should have just necroed a thread like someone else. Here I thought someone had an actual idea, not that I actually read the OP admittedly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LolitaBansheeMeru

I think he means start like a new chap of the story with fresh content and characters/enemeys not new start on the character. thats what I took from it anyways so it would be we keep all our level all our expereince all our ic history and move to a new world or content with no old characters/ old enemys.

---

Yes that's what I meant. I thought it would be obvious with the suggestion of a free level boost.

I've been saying this story needs to be put to bed since HW. Its been going on not since ARR but since v1. It's super boring and the story is getting ridiculous. Not to mention they keep rezzing the worst villains while killing off the most interesting.

We all know if something is happening its because of ascians and garlemald in some way shape or form. And motivations never seem to change and character growth and development just doesn't exist beyond levels. And frankly our scion companions are getting intolerable. Esp our poster cat girl Y'shtola. I would have left her in the void, given the chance.

I miss the days where an expansion would be part of the world, but its own thing. With new antagonists and protagonists, even if there is an underlying theme.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, what happens to progression? It completely disappears, since I am allowed to join and none of my levels matter? How do skills work, are they all unlocked at level 1 for those players joining? If that is the case then this OP has a non-thread, because Yoshida has been wanting to drop the story for awhile (rather finish this storyline), plus they have said they are going to rework ARR.

So everyone "starts" fresh with one free level boost. So levels do still matter, players just get a free one. What exactly are you suggesting ARR 2? You should have just necroed a thread like someone else. Here I thought someone had an actual idea, not that I actually read the OP admittedly.

---

um your a bit reaching so Ill explain how it could happan for you Lets say we Kill all the empire bring peace then beat all the ascions and as a next journey the mother crystals sends us to another world like the first this would be progression and not first start .. dropping old stuff doesn't mean a fresh start and no progression lol ---but we would be alone no scions nooone would know us and the world would be more harsh since we had to complete the story to get there lol and the old enemys are all dead. We could keep the underline detail of the rejoining just in a method that doesn't kill everyone lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

I miss the days where an expansion would be part of the world, but its own thing. With new antagonists and protagonists, even if there is an underlying theme.

---

ESO has that. Anyone of any level can just do whatever content in whatever order. It completely destroys the flow of the story, and the writing shows it in many ways, but everything is leveled to everyone. So players can do it. Personally, I don't like this, BUT that game also has a lot of other problems - not even like the writing was super amazing to begin with the weird explanation of cadwell's gold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LolitaBansheeMeru

um your a bit reaching so Ill explain how it could happan for you Lets say we Kill all the empire bring peace then beat all the ascions and as a next journey the mother crystals sends us to another world like the first this would be progression and not first start .. dropping old stuff doesn't mean a fresh start and no progression lol

---

I am not stretching, the OP above said one free level boost. What you are stating here is just a new expansion and do it like WoW. "One free level boost" when a new expac comes out and start at that expac. - Which that on it's own isn't actually that bad of an idea, to be honest. Should have just said "let's get a free level boost for the next expansion, the story is getting rather bloated!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

ESO has that. Anyone of any level can just do whatever content in whatever order. It completely destroys the flow of the story, and the writing shows it in many ways, but everything is leveled to everyone. So players can do it. Personally, I don't like this, BUT that game also has a lot of other problems - not even like the writing was super amazing to begin with the weird explanation of cadwell's gold.

I am not stretching, the OP above said one free level boost. What you are stating here is just a new expansion and do it like WoW. "One free level boost" when a new expac comes out. - Which that on it's own isn't actually that bad of an idea, to be honest. Should have just said "let's get a free level boost for the next expansion, the story is getting rather bloated!"

---

um you can already get the level boost like wow can do and buy a story skip potion so that wouldn't be anything new just under free term by his words lol

Also nothing in that has to do with anything with progression or making you start in a new world with new content /characters and enemeys lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LolitaBansheeMeru

um you can already get the level boost like wow can do and buy a story skip potion so that wouldn't be anything new just under free term by his words lol

---

That's literally what I said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SamRF

That's exactly what I meant, something similar to WoW. Problem at the moments is that it isn't practical to use a level boost because you need to have experienced character development and story of ARR and older expansions to either enjoy or understand the latest expansion, which is why I suggest this storyline with scions and garleans etc should end so we can start with something new story wise in future expansion which doesn't require previous story in order to be understood or enjoyed, so that a level boost would make sense.

---

Yeah, I didn't actually read your OP, I just thought you had an original idea. Don't get me wrong I actually think a free level boost/story skip is a good idea for later expansions. Yoshida has been saying he has wanted to wrap up the current storyline for awhile though. Optimally, they would rework the whole thing so old content could still be done though, and a story skip auto completes them. I think, I have never used a level boost or a story skip. Then again they do have new game plus, but I don't know how good it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I am not stretching, the OP above said one free level boost. What you are stating here is just a new expansion and do it like WoW. "One free level boost" when a new expac comes out. - Which that on it's own isn't actually that bad of an idea, to be honest. Should have just said "let's get a free level boost for the next expansion, the story is getting rather bloated!"

---

That's exactly what I meant, something similar to WoW. Problem at the moments is that it isn't practical to use a level boost because you need to have experienced character development and story of ARR and older expansions to either enjoy or understand the latest expansion, which is why I suggest this storyline with scions and garleans etc should end so we can start with something new story wise in future expansion which doesn't require previous story in order to be understood or enjoyed, so that a level boost would make sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

ESO has that. Anyone of any level can just do whatever content in whatever order. It completely destroys the flow of the story, and the writing shows it in many ways, but everything is leveled to everyone. So players can do it. Personally, I don't like this, BUT that game also has a lot of other problems - not even like the writing was super amazing to begin with the weird explanation of cadwell's gold.

---

FFXI was like that too, although the content is scaled in such a way that you cant just jump in at any time at any level. But it allows them to stretch their creative muscles and provides a lot of lore and really good stories. I really liked those small dlc they added too that was basically just a mini msq with decent rewards at the end.

Overall it just kept things fresh. Could bounce between the stories and none were really a must unless you wanted the story, the rewards and the content it unlocked. I just rerolled a char in FFXI and man is it great not to be locked to one single story that just drags on and on with no end in sight. FFXI may have its flaws, but they could learn a thing or two from how it handles story and how to diversify endgame in a good way.

As for ESO I find its story telling about as dull as its combat and don't really like being able to just do anything, whenever I want. Having goals is something that is important in an mmo. Unfortunately they are lacking in XIV too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SamRF

That's exactly what I meant, something similar to WoW. Problem at the moments is that it isn't practical to use a level boost because you need to have experienced character development and story of ARR and older expansions to either enjoy or understand the latest expansion, which is why I suggest this storyline with scions and garleans etc should end so we can start with something new story wise in future expansion which doesn't require previous story in order to be understood or enjoyed, so that a level boost would make sense.

---

Well, that's what they're doing, at least with the Ascian part, in Shadowbringers. But they can't start completely fresh unless you have another calamity or something like that or it would be jarring for existing players. They have to end each of the major plot points as they go. So, Ascian now, and maybe Garlean next expansion (unless it also ends this expansion).

I don't know about the free level boosts, though, as I don't like the idea of encouraging story skips. I think new characters can just start at a later date than older characters if they properly setup the story to be able to converge the two together (like those who started in 1.0 vs those who started in 2.0).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linay

But they can't start completely fresh unless you have another calamity or something like that or it would be jarring for existing players.

---

They actually could. You don't need the world to be nearly destroyed to start a new storyline. The new one could run parallel to this one or even open when you hit level 30 or something. Have a new area open and travel there where we get caught up in some new msq shenanigans. There are so many ways to open up a new storyline that has nothing to do with the current one. The garleans are not world encompassing after all, just in our little corner of it. I am sure other nations know whats going on, but it would be akin to the American civil war when you live in India.

This would also give people who are not maxed out across the board new ways to level and open the door to something different than our standard dungeons, primals and 24 man raids. There is literally no limit to what they could do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

They actually could. You don't need the world to be nearly destroyed to start a new storyline. The new one could run parallel to this one or even open when you hit level 30 or something. Have a new area open and travel there where we get caught up in some new msq shenanigans. There are so many ways to open up a new storyline that has nothing to do with the current one. The garleans are not world encompassing after all, just in our little corner of it. I am sure other nations know whats going on, but it would be akin to the American civil war when you live in India.

This would also give people who are not maxed out across the board new ways to level and open the door to something different than our standard dungeons, primals and 24 man raids. There is literally no limit to what they could do.

---

And that would be jarring because you're potentially leaving plot points unresolved or you'll mess with the timeline of the story too much.

....

https://media0.giphy.com/media/u31fe...&rid=giphy.gif

I don't see how this adds longevity.

What I'm hearing is basically. Stop the main story and just make a different story. That in no way adds longevity.

Plus, it alienates those who like the continuous story, while there is no guarantee of people coming in for new different story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linay

And that would be jarring because you're potentially leaving plot points unresolved or you'll mess with the timeline of the story too much.

---

Not if each story was its own thing. Going back to my previous example. If you wrote a book about a political coop or existential threat set in India that was happened in the same time line as the US Civil War, how could there possibly be any unresolved plot points? Even if the main protagonist was American, there would be no cross over because the story you are reading occurs completely in India.

Many games handle story telling like this and it actually works incredibly well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

What I'm hearing is basically. Stop the main story and just make a different story. That in no way adds longevity.

---

Conclude. No one is asking them to just stop it bluntly. Just bring it to a conclusion so we can have something a bit more refreshing than "ascians did it" "garlemald did it" or "allagans did it". Every story needs to have a conclusion, otherwise you get the author adding ridiculous things to keep the story flowing. This is why many TV shows are stopping after 3 or 4 seasons even if they are highly popular. Because they have a natural stopping point and if they just keep adding and adding it becomes convoluted and actually destroys the story they wanted to tell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Razard

....

https://media0.giphy.com/media/u31fe...&rid=giphy.gif

---

I'm actually genuinely curious why my suggestion sounds so ridiculous to you, I have the feeling you may be misunderstanding what exactly I mean cause what I'm suggesting really isn't that radical of an idea (also unoriginal probably).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I don't see how this adds longevity.

What I'm hearing is basically. Stop the main story and just make a different story. That in no way adds longevity.

Plus, it alienates those who like the continuous story, while there is no guarantee of people coming in for new different story.

---

The endgame community will get less and less newcomers if things go forward the same way. The MSQ is stacking with each expansion, it already takes hundreds of hours to reach endgame. Players at endgame will stop playing for variety of reasons (bored, switching game, dying irl) while there will be less and less new players coming into the endgame because they're stuck in ever increasing MSQ. I'm sure many players don't make it past the MSQ and stop playing (long) before reaching endgame, a few 100 hours is a lot of dedication.

To give an example, I can't imagine the average WoW player who is used to fast combat having the patience to go through those hundreds of hours of MSQ to get the point when combat will start getting faster and more interesting. Hell, they might not even have the patience to reach lvl 50 with how incredibly slow combat is in this game in lower levels. If they use a story boost right now, they won't enjoy or understand latest expansion because they didn't experience past story and character development. This is why I suggest starting a new saga so there's a point you could safely level boost your character to while still being able to enjoy and understand given story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Not if each story was its own thing. Going back to my previous example. If you wrote a book about a political coop or existential threat set in India that was happened in the same time line as the US Civil War, how could there possibly be any unresolved plot points? Even if the main protagonist was American, there would be no cross over because the story you are reading occurs completely in India.

Many games handle story telling like this and it actually works incredibly well.

---

I'm thinking from the present state where there is an overarching story. If they manage to resolve everything, then we can start fresh.

That said, I also wouldn't like it if every expansion is self-contained with nothing to link from one expansion to the next. They can do it after every few expansions, but there should be continuation and even recurring characters and such between several of the expansions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linay

I'm thinking from the present state where there is an overarching story. If they manage to resolve everything, then we can start fresh.

That said, I also wouldn't like it if every expansion is self-contained with nothing to link from one expansion to the next. They can do it after every few expansions, but there should be continuation and even recurring characters and such between several of the expansions.

---

I'd say have 2 or maybe 3 expansions for 1 saga. Give free level boost to the start of each saga. E.g. current saga ends at 6.0 --> 2nd saga starts 6.0 and will end 8.0 --> only give free boost to start of 6.0, even when current expac is 7.0.

Boost to the start of latest saga, not the latest expansion.

Ascian crud is being wrapped by the end of 6.x patch series. 7.0 will be a fresh saga, maybe not with ALL new characters, but we'll be done with empire vs alliance and ascian machinations by then most likely. So your suggestion of people not having to go through all the current storyline to enjoy things is already kind of solving itself

Source: Yoshi-P has alluded to 6.0 being the end of the Ascian arc countless times over the years in live letters and interviews, here's one for the sake of having a direct link.
https://gamerescape.com/2016/11/15/f...-fan-festival/

Specifically within that article he states towards the end of question:

Quote:

---

At the current state, we will need up to 6.0 to finish everything. (laugh)

---

It's not inaccurate to say that the story presents a very real obstacle that blocks new players from end game content.

Consider an MMO player who starts playing the game after hearing great things from his friends. He pays $60 for the complete edition and starts playing. After a few quests he takes a look online to see what the fastest way to reach end game (where his friends are). Imagine his shock to learn that he has 694 story quests, plus another 30 or so class quests before he can do ANY of the content that he wants to participate in. MMOs are known for the grind, but even so that's a huge 100+ hour requirement that can't be avoided. There's no alternative leveling process. You can't do things your own way. SE tapes you to the train and railroads your entire progress to cap.

The good news is that there's a level boost for $25. It brings you up to the end of the previous expansion. That's fairly standard for MMOs now. The bad news is that it does nothing for that mountain of quests you have. You can skip those too, but you'll need to pay another $25, plus you still have no choice but to do the 106 quests from the latest expansion.

So here are your choices as a new player:
1) Spend $60 and 100-150 hours following an undeviating path to reach end game
2) Spend $110 and 20-40 hours following a segment of that path to reach end game

Both of those present massive obstacles to someone who isn't sure whether or not they'll enjoy end game, and the problem grows with every new expansion. When is it unreasonable to expect people to complete the story before they can participate in harder content? Clearly some people here don't think 700 quests is too much. What about next expansion when it reaches 850? Or 1000 in the expansion after that?

Why do we need to force people to go through the story? Why isn't someone allowed to level up by grinding dungeons or fates if that's what they want to do? With all the optional content in game, why aren't people allowed to say "no thanks, I'd rather do something else to level up"?

I enjoy the story on the whole and I don't want it removed from the game, but I can't understand why some people feel that it must be forced on everyone who plays the game. Unless something changes, the inflating obstacle to entry will gradually restrict the number of new players reaching end game.