the twelve city states

Hi lorefans,
in the first lorebook is mentioned that in the fifth astral era, there have been up to 12 city states - each one blessed by one of the twelve gods.

So the only one who are named are Mhaachi, Amdapor and Nym, but what about the other states. I try to find out about it - maybe you have ideas or could help fulfill the list


1. Mhaachi - Fire - ???
2. Amdapor - Earth - ???
3. Nym - Water - Nymeia
4. Ishgard - Ice - Halone
5. Sharlayan - Water - Thaliak

So whats about Skallah, Mor Dhona, Dravania or the area in the desert.
Maybe you have more infos or ideas.

Skalla is specifically noted as being a Fifth Astral Era city-state.

Ishgard and Sharlayan weren't founded until later, though.

Also it's "Mhach" (Mhachi, no double-a, is the adjective) and there are no specific associations to elements for any of the city-states beyond simply listing what their patron god is associated with.

I don't think there has been any association between Nym and Nymeia though - the more prominent god would be Oschon the Wanderer - the Palace actually being a temple.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I don't think there has been any association between Nym and Nymeia though - the more prominent god would be Oschon the Wanderer - the Palace actually being a temple.

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Oh yes, that is a good hint, so oschon is the deity of the wind. And skalla could be a lightining god like rhalgr but i beleave more it would be byregot

Given Ala Mhigo was literally built right on top of Skalla, Rhalgr is as good choice as any (after all, thunderstorms are a very common weather effect in Gyr Abania, especially the Lochs).

Also, Mor Dhona and Dravania are just regions and not city states at all (apart from the Third Astral Era Allagan Empire's Crystal Tower and releated structures connected to it, I'm not sure there was ever any other major city state based in Mor Dhona, at least as is known, and it's unknown what if any city state existed in Dravania prior to the dragons arriving and the elezen Avalonia civilization being founded there in the early Sixth Astral Era (which became Ishgard eventually).

It should also be noted that Eorzean city states taking a member of the Twelve as their guardian deity has been a tradition since the First Astral Era, so the late Fifth Astral Era is not really anything unusual, other than that they happened to number the same amount of deities in the pantheon, which was probably just coincidence.

@Enkidoh, im not quite sure that there have been city states before the fifth astral era . In the Third Astral era there have been a huge allagan imperium which got destroyed in after the fourth era.

My citation for that was the original version's manual, stating that Eorzea has seen host to countless citystates throughout Eorzea's history that take a member of the Twelve as their guardian:

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Originally Posted by Final Fantasy XIV Version 1.0 Collector's Edition manual

The guardian gods and goddesses known as the Twelve watch over the city-states of Eorzea. These tiny nations carved out a history of blood and betrayal, forging and breaking alliances as each warred over territory and sought to impose uncompromising interpretations of their patron deities' will.

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and

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Originally Posted by Final Fantasy XIV version 1.0 Collector's Edition manual

The vast realm of Eorzea, comprising the continent of Aldenard and it's outlying islands, has seen the rise of a civilization with peoples as diverse as its environs. Throughout it's history, the landscape has played home to a number of city-states-the tenuous relations between them fluctuating from friendly to hostile and back again.

The pantheon of the Twelve is followed devoutly by most, and doctrine holds that the past wars of the realm were the wars of the heavens, with the gods and goddesses choosing nations as their respective champions. Whether because of this celestial struggle or more worldy grievances, war spread throughout the realm, discouraging unity and peace.

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Of course it is very vague but to me it wasn't specifically referring just to the current city-states but referring to nations that existed throughout it's history, meaning back to the very dawn of time. It also needs to be mentioned that in 1.0 the Allag themselves were very vague - all that was known about them was they were a name attached to a ruined cobblestone road in Thanalan and certain strange runestones that Rowena started dealing in. There was no mention whatsoever that they were an Empire or even when they flourished (I originally assumed they were a former ruler of Ul'dah at some time in the past). Only with ARR did the Allag get much further backstory added and clarification that they existed in the Third Astral Era (But that was pretty much symbolic of 1.0 in general - it's lore was so obscure and vague that it's what led to this very Lore forum section being added to the official FFXIV forums in the first place, such was the dedication of a number of 1.0 players to try and piece together the scattered threads and fragments of story that existed in the original game and make some semblence of it, that SE decided to aknowledge that with the official Lore forum. ;)).

Which leads to an important point - in the same way how in Shadowbringers it's mentioned that pre-Sundering/Terminus ruins like those of Amaurot found in The Tempest on the First would no longer exist on the Source due to constant Calamities all but erasing them from existence, as Umbral Calamities are such effective cultural reset buttons, it's little wonder little to no knowledge of anything pre-Sixth Umbral Era/late Fifth Astral Era civilization is known to exist either, save for the few remaining traces of Allag civilization, given they were virtually world-spanning and tended to make their structures and technology to last.

Apart from Skalla, which even then was already a forgotten ruin submerged under Loch Sied by the time Ala Mhigo ended up being built on top of it , and it's origins lost to time.

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Originally Posted by DeMarcy

Hi lorefans,
in the first lorebook is mentioned that in the fifth astral era, there have been up to 12 city states - each one blessed by one of the twelve gods.

So the only one who are named are Mhaachi, Amdapor and Nym, but what about the other states. I try to find out about it - maybe you have ideas or could help fulfill the list


1. Mhaachi - Fire - ???
2. Amdapor - Earth - ???
3. Nym - Water - Nymeia
4. Ishgard - Ice - Halone
5. Sharlayan - Water - Thaliak

So whats about Skallah, Mor Dhona, Dravania or the area in the desert.
Maybe you have more infos or ideas.

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It's clearly stated in the 1st volume that Nym's chosen patron deity was Oschon (which would be wind).. Which nicely mirror the fact that Limsa Lominsa's patron is Llymlaen (also a wind aspected godess).

Allag, early in his history, also worshipped the 12 (they used to carve runestones with the 12's symbols)

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Which leads to an important point - in the same way how in Shadowbringers it's mentioned that pre-Sundering/Terminus ruins like those of Amaurot found in The Tempest on the First would no longer exist on the Source .

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Intriguing enough tho, in Eastern La Nocea there's an area called Agelyss Wise and this is the only bit of information we have about it:
«The ruins of an archaic road, Agelyss Wise's age is so great that some scholars hypothesize that it was already old in the days of ancient Allag»

So your 1.0 manual text is different to the history text in the encyclopaedia 1 -

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Originally Posted by DeMarcy

So your 1.0 manual text is different to the history text in the encyclopaedia 1 -

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No, I never stated that (and for what it's worth the Lorebooks do retcon some things - Nael's gender is an example). What I was explaining is that there have been different city-states rising and falling in Eorzea throughout history, with each Calamity especially often resulting in new societies rising from the ashes of the old. Hells, even in the Sixth Astral Era the city-states that intially formed after the flood subsided was somewhat in a state of flux throughout the nearly 2000 year time span of that Astral Era so that most that existed at the start of that Astral Era, were not the same ones when Bahamut blew his way out of Dalamud: Gelmorra gave way to Gridania, Belahdia split into Ul'dah and Sil'dih (with Sil'dih later being wiped out), Avalonia was replaced by Ishgard, and Sharlayan founded a colony in Dravania that they later abandoned when the Garleans annexed Ala Mhigo. So it has been since the beginning of time.

There was undoubtably other city-states that existed prior to the Fifth Astral Era ones (the ones that would have existed back in the Third Astral Era would have all been hammered into the Allagan Empire though), although whatever traces or records of them probably no longer exist, with any records from those eras that do are probably locked away in Sharlayan's libraries, and it is that that I was referring to.

Also it is important to remember that there are actually aknowledged errors in the books, mostly due to changes in the lore that were made with recent content added, but these are only small points and don't discredit the books as a whole (and that is not even taking into account that the books are actually written from the point of view of in-universe scribes, who may not have all the 'facts' themselves). It's just something to be aware of.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Also it is important to remember that there are actually aknowledged errors in the books, mostly due to changes in the lore that were made with recent content added, but these are only small points and don't discredit the books as a whole (and that is not even taking into account that the books are actually written from the point of view of in-universe scribes, who may not have all the 'facts' themselves). It's just something to be aware of.

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When you think about it, it's kinda ingenious since it blurs the edges just enough to give the wiggle room they need to alter the lore. The game's history and lore aren't yet complete and you're bound to get stuff wrong from incomplete information.

By example, Nael was never a man in the Japanese version. Turns out the writters only used gender-neutral pronouns to refer to them(?). The English localization team, not having the information, had decided to translate the game using the male pronouns. TLDR, it's an error that wasn't caught.. In the end, they made something out of it, explained the change in game, expanded the lore a bit..

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Originally Posted by Ardox

By example, Nael was never a man in the Japanese version. Turns out the writters only used gender-neutral pronouns to refer to them(?). The English localization team, not having the information, had decided to translate the game using the male pronouns. TLDR, it's an error that wasn't caught.. In the end, they made something out of it, explained the change in game, expanded the lore a bit..

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That may be, but Nael's second-stage battle theme Rise of the White Raven (that was written for 1.0) specifically referred to Nael as a he, which only added to the confusion (especially as the lyrics were written by Ferne after all with Eva Kapeller translating them into Latin). But anyway, I digress, we've gone off topic. :p

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

That may be, but Nael's second-stage battle theme Rise of the White Raven (that was written for 1.0) specifically referred to Nael as a he, which only added to the confusion (especially as the lyrics were written by Ferne after all with Eva Kapeller translating them into Latin). But anyway, I digress, we've gone off topic. :p

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Oh wow, I didn't know that. Thanks

Might explain why the explanation felt so convoluted when I did the 2nd coil.. Felt like a bad take on the Samus is a girl trope.


As for a hint for what the other 5th era city states might have been, there's no clue in Encyclopedia Eorzea 1 (can't say for the 2nd yet)

Is there a liost of the translation errors from the book - and do you have a possibility to send me an scan of the 1.0 manual - im sort of a lore hunter ;) So you were right before - have just translatet the second era and there have been kingdoms and hole wars - so i beleave this could be a hint of an very prehistoric area like coerthas caus of witchhunts etc.

For contact : MarcyBright#5614 (discord)

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Originally Posted by Ardox

Oh wow, I didn't know that. Thanks

Might explain why the explanation felt so convoluted when I did the 2nd coil.. Felt like a bad take on the Samus is a girl trope.


As for a hint for what the other 5th era city states might have been, there's no clue in Encyclopedia Eorzea 1 (can't say for the 2nd yet)

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It's pretty apparent that they didn't have the new Nael lore in place during 1.0. He was still him, but the retcon was made in such a way it didn't dispute anything that happened in 1.0 afaik.

the lore in the lorebook state a very beuatiful and sad story about nael and her brother :)

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Originally Posted by Ardox

Might explain why the explanation felt so convoluted when I did the 2nd coil.. Felt like a bad take on the Samus is a girl trope.

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It's been a while since it was a topic of discussion, but as I recall, the whole unexpected gender thing was due to a miscommunication between the writers and the art team. The story of the sister taking the brother's place was created after the fact to "patch" the problem.

So, yeah, it was a "Samus is a girl" done badly - because it was done UNINTENTIONALLY. XD

DO NOT COMPARE Nael to the awesomeness that is Samus Aran. Better question is how many super missiles would it take to bring down lets go with bahamut??

I want to give mhach, nym and amdapor a little bit of credit in building their city states. They are ruined but granted still standing. I am sure that in some capacity there are remnants of earlier city states and perhaps even amarout on the source. It isn't like limsa limonsa has dredged the entirety of the sea surrounding it which i am assuming is where amourot once stood at least in the source.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

It's been a while since it was a topic of discussion, but as I recall, the whole unexpected gender thing was due to a miscommunication between the writers and the art team. The story of the sister taking the brother's place was created after the fact to "patch" the problem.

So, yeah, it was a "Samus is a girl" done badly - because it was done UNINTENTIONALLY. XD

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But.. in the cutscene, Alisaie muse about Bahamuth not caring and mixing up the genders (iirc)

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Originally Posted by Ardox

But.. in the cutscene, Alisaie muse about Bahamuth not caring and mixing up the genders (iirc)

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Yes, in English. In Japanese, I believe they simply were surprised that Nael was a girl the whole time, rather than conjuring any theories about Bahamut doing some aetherial stuff. Lineage says it was miscommunication between writers and art team, but I remember it being between the writers and the localisation team.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Yes, in English. In Japanese, I believe they simply were surprised that Nael was a girl the whole time, rather than conjuring any theories about Bahamut doing some aetherial stuff. Lineage says it was miscommunication between writers and art team, but I remember it being between the writers and the localisation team.

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I would have been 100% good with that. Not knowing the gender of a person by looking at his magitek-enhanced full-body fortress armor is more credible than the reason NA players got.. Except if it was a real plot point.. I really doubt they will ever revisit the "primals find gender confusing" bit except for some kind of easter egg..

but in the lorebook it has been stated clear why Nael was suspected as a Man -
I dont want to spoiler but it has to do something with her brother.

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Originally Posted by DeMarcy

but in the lorebook it has been stated clear why Nael was suspected as a Man -
I dont want to spoiler but it has to do something with her brother.

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That lorebook explanation was made after the initial miscommunication about Nael's gender to cover it up. A retcon one could say, but one that helps things make more sense nowadays.

there could have been some mistakes - but i think we mustn't forget that the 1.0 version of FFXIV was full of failure so that yoshi P and his team has to change things to get them straight. Thank god for this man !!! ;)

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Originally Posted by DeMarcy

Is there a liost of the translation errors from the book - and do you have a possibility to send me an scan of the 1.0 manual - im sort of a lore hunter ;) So you were right before - have just translatet the second era and there have been kingdoms and hole wars - so i beleave this could be a hint of an very prehistoric area like coerthas caus of witchhunts etc.

For contact : MarcyBright#5614 (discord)

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Sorry for the late reply but Anonymoose and Sounsyy made two threads on this forum that have attempted to list all the known typos and story errors in both lorebooks (they haven't been updated in a while though). Note these are unofficial lists though reliant on other players giving information so SE does not endorse them (but they are still the best means we have):

Lore Book I Errors
Lore Book II Errors

As for the 1.0 manual, I'll see what I can do but I have a lot happening in my personal life at the moment so my time is rather stretched sadly. :(

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Originally Posted by DeMarcy

but in the lorebook it has been stated clear why Nael was suspected as a Man -
I dont want to spoiler but it has to do something with her brother.

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Yes, you are right, the lorebook says X, But the cutscene text in Binding Coil of Bahamut says Y.

Now it's just a matter of which version you want to believe, but since a lot of players haven't the encyclopedia Eorzea 1, you can't just dismiss what Alisaie says.