Necromancer Class

Sorry for the rough layout, first time bringing my ideas to a forum.

Just a thought, but wouldn't a DPS class the focuses around resurrecting monsters killed in dungeons be cool? For trials and other one-fight/one-boss instances there could also be a monster save feature which allows you to summon monsters from OTHER dungeons you have saved in your 'shadow realm.' These monsters should be level synced if brought into lower level dungeons to avoid level boosting or unbalanced game play. The classes abilities would focus around summoning, buffing, healing/shielding, and activating abilities of the summoned monsters. By adding usable abilities for summoned monsters it also provides multiple methods of game play and a skill ceiling. The class can be very easy to use with monster save methods of one primary, heavy skill monster and a bunch of monsters with no or minimal skills to activate however, it could also provide individuals with a lot of practice the ability to activate a variety of skills from multiple monsters summoned. I personally love the idea behind necromancers who utilize defeated foes in battle and would love to see some kind of addition to FFXIV as a similar class.

About the gameplay:
-Remember when they didn't allowed the BLU in common raiding due to broken abilities/people not having all the skills that could be usefull to the group? Same problem, different form, you would have a "BiS" monster and you need this monster.
-We already have a job focused on Summoning, buffing and healing, it's called Scholar. There's also another job around Summoning that is Summoner and you might not remember how dreadfull the pets abilities were and how annoying they still are.
-Looking at how you describe it, it would be a limited job. Do you remember how people loved when BLU was released?

Lorewise:
-There is a Necromancer job in FFV, but that one only summoned demons, using Dark Arts to cast Meltdown, Deep Freeze Dark Flare, Chaos Drive, Doomsday... DPS abilities. It's a Darker Black Mage and SQEX would probably choose that direction.
-Warrior of Light, Necromancer. Storywise, the WoL tried to stop many Necromancers spells or simply defeat a Necromancer. Think about the first Deep Dungeon. While Dark Knight exists, SQEX tries to give the idea that Darkness is a tool, an element, not the Evil. Like fire, if you play with it you burn yourself. Necromancer, however, is often associated with Death, Inhumane, Immoral and Evil, they bring back deads after all!

In short, it's a possible job but it probably won't be implemented the way you want.
The idea would fit in a Sandbox MMO. I've seen plenty using this system and let's just say it was annoying, boring, repetitive, so broken they had to limit the "capturable" monsters and did not worked at all.

Funny enough i was behind on alchemist class quests so was catching up yesterday and it sort of talks about Necromancy and also Puppetmaster in a way.
Not to say that this is hinting at jobs (Astro questline talks about Geomancer) but who knows..

Sounds like a cool concept ,However I think it should be a 3 monster limit and behind a gauge. I would also like to see some aoe debuffs or aoe dots

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Originally Posted by AsheYehara

Sorry for the rough layout, first time bringing my ideas to a forum.

Just a thought, but wouldn't a DPS class the focuses around resurrecting monsters killed in dungeons be cool? For trials and other one-fight/one-boss instances there could also be a monster save feature which allows you to summon monsters from OTHER dungeons you have saved in your 'shadow realm.' These monsters should be level synced if brought into lower level dungeons to avoid level boosting or unbalanced game play. The classes abilities would focus around summoning, buffing, healing/shielding, and activating abilities of the summoned monsters. By adding usable abilities for summoned monsters it also provides multiple methods of game play and a skill ceiling. The class can be very easy to use with monster save methods of one primary, heavy skill monster and a bunch of monsters with no or minimal skills to activate however, it could also provide individuals with a lot of practice the ability to activate a variety of skills from multiple monsters summoned. I personally love the idea behind necromancers who utilize defeated foes in battle and would love to see some kind of addition to FFXIV as a similar class.

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So on the one-hand:

• The method explained for "resurrecting" here is similar in mechanics to what players have expected of a Beastmaster job, which is a bit more prominent throughout the series than Necromancer itself.
• As CKNovel pointed out, the requirement to summon by "collecting" monsters from other dungeons would require it to be a limited job, as much like BLU abilities, there would be no means to balance the job around the expectation of having X staple monster in your arsenal at any given time.
• Even if we ignored those aspects and shot for a "full job" Necromancer iteration, the classical iteration plays much like the current SMN does: a heavy emphasis on pets and DoT effects.

... On the other hand, I've personally thought it would be a very interesting Healer job. Drain life from enemies to transfer it to allies, summon and sacrifice minions, transform allies into various Undead to give them buffs like vampirism or ghostly evasion, curse enemies to deal less damage, bonuses to resurrection and execution, and so on.
I know it's not quite a match to the FF5 Necro, but in fairness, the FF5 Necro was basically suped-up BLM + SMN with permanent Undead status. I think we could make something a bit more creative.

Necromancer Concept

Class Type: Healer

Class Mechanic: Soul Reaping/ Minions/ Wells/ Blood Rituals

Explanation:

Whenever the Necromancer deals damage, he gathers Blood used for Blood Rituals, that is needed to perform special buffs/skills for the party and to empowe your Minions and to keep them alive.
Wells are ground target based Necromancer skills that are at the same time buffs for allies, ad they are debuffs for enemies, while standing in their AoE with special bonus effects for minions when they end.
Well, Minions, these are undead created creatures from gathered Souls from in combat defeated enemies either, or if their is nothing to kill, by draining the Life Energy out of an enemy, like a sap to use it for your Minions. But Minions have Health Degenerations and everytime a Minion degerates to dust, returns the sapped Life Energy back to the target, letting it regain the sapped health. Or performing Blood Rituals to sacrifice own blood to create minions, in this case do you regain health if the minion degenerates to dust.
Necromancers will be able to summon n control at the same time maximum 4 Minions and so more Minions you control, so faster do they degenerate to dust, making it harder to keep them "alive".

Minion Types
Following Minion Types can be created

- Vampires > Minions of this type move fast, hit fast n critical and leech health, so that their master or Allies regain health.
- Barghest > Barghests are hellhounds, not as fast as Vampires, but definetely stronger and able to stun n interrupt with their bone breaking bites like hyenas
- Ghouls > two legged Zombies, slow, but relentless, basically unstopable unless you chop off their heads or burn them to ash. Degenerate slower too. Collective Strength, gets more powerful so more of them are there. Their Attacks cause conditions.
- Spirits > Immaterial summoned souls, deal ranged magic damage, but are immobile, but create in their area of range own individual buff effects for the party. N lastly
- Demons > special Minions that are the most powerful damage dealers from the Necromancer, requires Blood Ritual to sacrific weaker Minions to summon one of some few know demons, like Belial, Exodus, Chaos, ect, basically the FF12 summons

Necromancers will be able to heal also without minions, they will be only more effective with them being out in times where you need any healing power you can get to survive enemy limitbreaks ect. or heavy damage over time for that the Necromancer alone would be too weak, but can manage it easily with minion support, due to minions being undead are they not targetable n sumber no damage, it's not possible to get more dead than being already dead, so in this case work minions like Egis/Fairies.

Thats the rough picture of a Necromancer for FF14 I have in mind. Without getting full into deep details about skills/traits.

Oh and weapon of choice has to be naturally the Scythe, making Necromancers magical based Melee Healers!! which can be played also ranged like Redmages, but going into Melle would feel more rewarding due to gaining much quicker the Blood for Blood Rituals, kind of think of Hidan from the Anime Series Naruto Shippuuden. Fought with scythe, gathered enemy blood via the scythe to perform a ritual

I'm not sure on the exact etiquette of this sort of thing, but isn't it kind of in poor taste to just unrepentantly hijack someone else's class concept thread in the manner you've done, Kaiser?

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Originally Posted by Leidiriv

I'm not sure on the exact etiquette of this sort of thing, but isn't it kind of in poor taste to just unrepentantly hijack someone else's class concept thread in the manner you've done, Kaiser?

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The OP hasn't even come up at all with a slightest bit of "concept" but basically said out in a few sentences, that he/she would like to have Necromancers as DPS Job with a description around it that sounds pretty similar to Summoner.


All I did was just showing that I'd prefer such a Job rather as a new unique magical Melee Combat Healer that can control for support up to 4 degenerating Minions.
If I wanted to hijack this thread, I would have directly bombed it with a written fullscale concept that describes into detail also too absolutely every skill, trait and gameplay mechanic in regard of said skills and traits as like also the skills of each minion to leave here no space basically anymore for discussion of anything else.
But I haven't done that, would I have wanted to do that, then I'd do that in my own created thread for this.

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Originally Posted by Kaiserdrache

The OP hasn't even come up at all with a slightest bit of "concept" but basically said out in a few sentences, that he/she would like to have Necromancers as DPS Job with a description around it that sounds pretty similar to Summoner.


All I did was just showing that I'd prefer such a Job rather as a new unique magical Melee Combat Healer that can control for support up to 4 degenerating Minions.
If I wanted to hijack this thread, I would have directly bombed it with a written fullscale concept that describes into detail also too absolutely every skill, trait and gameplay mechanic in regard of said skills and traits as like also the skills of each minion to leave here no space basically anymore for discussion of anything else.
But I haven't done that, would I have wanted to do that, then I'd do that in my own created thread for this.

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I was just throwing a general idea out there, I don't mind how the idea is used I just want to see some kind of fun, creative class that focuses heavily on Resurrection or life-steal. Thank you for the concern though Leidiriv!

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Originally Posted by AsheYehara

I was just throwing a general idea out there, I don't mind how the idea is used I just want to see some kind of fun, creative class that focuses heavily on Resurrection or life-steal. Thank you for the concern though Leidiriv!

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I mean if it's all the same to you...

... I've written up a Necro Healer concept once or twice myself to throw in the ring.

Though I would worry more about turning this into a thread that might be better served in the Healer subforum if it goes much further...

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

So on the one-hand:

• The method explained for "resurrecting" here is similar in mechanics to what players have expected of a Beastmaster job, which is a bit more prominent throughout the series than Necromancer itself.
• As CKNovel pointed out, the requirement to summon by "collecting" monsters from other dungeons would require it to be a limited job, as much like BLU abilities, there would be no means to balance the job around the expectation of having X staple monster in your arsenal at any given time.
• Even if we ignored those aspects and shot for a "full job" Necromancer iteration, the classical iteration plays much like the current SMN does: a heavy emphasis on pets and DoT effects.

... On the other hand, I've personally thought it would be a very interesting Healer job. Drain life from enemies to transfer it to allies, summon and sacrifice minions, transform allies into various Undead to give them buffs like vampirism or ghostly evasion, curse enemies to deal less damage, bonuses to resurrection and execution, and so on.
I know it's not quite a match to the FF5 Necro, but in fairness, the FF5 Necro was basically suped-up BLM + SMN with permanent Undead status. I think we could make something a bit more creative.

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This actually sounds really cool and if it were an expansion job it would put a lot of people playing healers again. Well done, man.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

I mean if it's all the same to you...

... I've written up a Necro Healer concept once or twice myself to throw in the ring.

Though I would worry more about turning this into a thread that might be better served in the Healer subforum if it goes much further...

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Okay, so like what was done in Guild Wars 2. There, (and to use FF terms here) the Healing Necromancer build was essentially shield-style proactive with ability to "Rescue" on short cooldown. It could also help team members proc lifesteal. The issue in that game was that it brought almost no useful support buffs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AsheYehara

I was just throwing a general idea out there, I don't mind how the idea is used I just want to see some kind of fun, creative class that focuses heavily on Resurrection or life-steal. Thank you for the concern though Leidiriv!

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Agreed with the lifesteal concept -- a different sort of reactive WHM's Medica II or melee dps' Bloodbath style buff that heals party members as long as they continue whacking enemies. Perhaps a longer duration to account for not always having an enemy around or the slow speed of attacks. As long as this Siphon buff is active, party members would be doing extra damage with their attacks (as the lifesteal concept implies, it's both a damage and a heal).

As for Resurrection, if you're referring to the actual res of dead party members, I'd prefer to not have an OP resurrector. People should still have a healthy fear of death and not bank on someone always there to insta res them. I'm actually appalled at the number of multi-death clears I've seen in normal content. If a pull is so horrible, then it should lead to a wipe and force everyone to restart. Just earlier today, some of the World of Darkness bosses completed with a dozen or more people showing a fully dead state. I've seen a bunch of dungeon boss kills with the tank and sometimes the healer dead. Anyway...

Necro is a cool concept, but it's basically already done in Summoner, as far as I can tell. Control minions, apply conditions, spread these conditions.