Crafter and Gatherer jump potions

Crafting and gathering is so tedious, I mean it takes a whole three days to max them out. I got work, kids, a wife.... please add jump potions SE

Now I feel like I need a "jump" potion too... The kind that makes me jump off a cliff or building...

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Originally Posted by Maxeum

Crafting and gathering is so tedious, I mean it takes a whole three days to max them out. I got work, kids, a wife.... please add jump potions SE

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How about no? Do you want them to add a 100 million Gil jump potion too? If you’re too lazy to level something that they’ve raised exp to 300% for, AND added Ishgard restoration EXP, then FFXIV might not be for you.

I really miss back when people didn’t downplay the importance of leveling crafters and gatherers like how they do now. Probably has something to do with Yoshida babying everyone....on second thought, maybe it will happen...

LMAO.... A whole three days to max out....
It took my a month to level my crafters to 30 on my alt with leves before they 5.1 came along. That was rolling too.

I say no to this but they probably will put skips in at some point unfortunately. Subscription MMO are designed for grind and this has turned into skip to end and then unsub till new content is released. Sad IMO...

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Originally Posted by Maxeum

Crafting and gathering is so tedious, I mean it takes a whole three days to max them out. I got work, kids, a wife.... please add jump potions SE

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This is a troll post, right? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Jillian

This is a troll post, right? :rolleyes:

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Probably...

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Originally Posted by Jillian

This is a troll post, right? :rolleyes:

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Likely, and not a very good one.

More like a sarcastic/pissed off post because of what they did with the exp gains in ishgard. I wasn't trying to make it a "good one" more like blowing steam with the lowering of the bar. When something is hard to do the things attached to it become valuable, the harder something is the less people are willing to or cant do it, which makes it more valuable. When one starts making things easier it becomes less valuable, less worth doing. For example, being an omni crafter now means significantly less then it did pre 5.1.

If they start making everything too easy nothing has value. There wouldn't be a struggle, no accomplishment, it would turn into a list of chores.
real life examples, doctors, lawyers, businessmen, etc... These are valued because they are hard, they are hard because they require commitment, time, effort....

they also want more and more people to get into crafting and gathering. for years people have said they don't want to do it because it's too difficult/tedious/etc. Now they're practically shoving exp down your throat saying you'll level it and then you'll like it.

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Originally Posted by Maxeum

For example, being an omni crafter now means significantly less then it did pre 5.1.

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Pre 4.0 actually, but yes, 5.1 put the final nail in the coffin unfortunately. Honestly, the whole “work hard for what you want” mindset in terms of crafting is officially dead, and will not ever come back. and ultimately you have yoshida to blame for that. whatever new FF mmo comes around 2025-ish, you better hope yoshida has no involvement in...because if he does, it’ll just be FFXIV crafting all over again. so now I just play gold saucer games, sell materia, and play monster hunter world. at least in that game, hard work and grinds are encouraged.

Nice sarcasm

Having been an omnicrafter since ARR I kind of appreciated the old crafting system, though I think it was due for some skill consolidation.

I think it is hard to make crafting accessible and easy while simultaneously keeping it exclusive and difficult.

I am hoping that the simplification and easy leveling will be augmented with some exclusive and difficult challenges at some point.

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Originally Posted by Maxeum

There wouldn't be a struggle, no accomplishment, it would turn into a list of chores.
real life examples, doctors, lawyers, businessmen, etc... These are valued because they are hard, they are hard because they require commitment, time, effort....

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To be fair, FFXIV is basically a list of chores devoid of struggle and accomplishment. But its shiny and everything is so cutesy wutesy and ppl who never were able to get the big rewards can on Eorzea, hence the popularity. It was only a matter of time before crafting was hit too, and it wasn't really that hard pre-5.0 either, everyone just had macros to hq stuff.

I haven't gotten a drop that felt earned in this game since 1.0, which is pretty standard in gaming these days. I kindda feel ffxiv just takes the easy button to the extreme sometimes because its a cheap way to get ppl hooked on the game. The bad thing is that they have set a standard and now they have to keep those dopamine fixes coming and to keep that needle full, they are changing the old stuff too.

FFXIV at this point cannot be saved, it would crash and burn of they took away all the easy rewards or didn't change the old stuff to be easier. 5.x took a major slide backwards on difficulty of everything, just look at Copied Factory, Eden, every single dungeon, Primals… so old things like crafting being cheapened with an easy button is to be expected.

I just hope beyond hope, Yoshida doesn't get his fingers in the pots of any future FF games, esp the next mmo. He did an amazing job saving FFXIV, but he is coming across as a one trick pony and at this point I really don't think he knows what to do. Not only that be he seems to have gotten so comfortable in his echo chamber of praise that he doesn't really know it.

wow what an extremely subjective statement. but opinions are opinions are like.... you know. everyone smells.

Honestly, seeing that I am not alone in feeling this way has helped a lot. with the ishgard and exp update it felt like they threw a big middle finger at people (including myself) that had taken the time to level them all prior to 5.0 it has honestly left a sour taste in my mouth. I'm still playing but I hardly get on and when I do I just get angry and log back off after I do an expert. I've been looking for other mmo's if anyone can suggest any.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

they also want more and more people to get into crafting and gathering. for years people have said they don't want to do it because it's too difficult/tedious/etc. Now they're practically shoving exp down your throat saying you'll level it and then you'll like it.

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The question is how many players are continuing to do something with it once they've leveled. Most probably jumped on the bandwagon for Ishgard, grinded to get their scrip rewards and have forgotten it since unless they need to meld/repair. If all they get out of it in the long run are those things, it's not especially game changing for any of us.

It's probably going to take most of this expansion to get a good idea of whether these changes will have more players seriously participating in crafting and gathering, or if DoH/DoL classes become another "level to cap then forget about it".

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Originally Posted by Maxeum

Honestly, seeing that I am not alone in feeling this way has helped a lot. with the ishgard and exp update it felt like they threw a big middle finger at people (including myself) that had taken the time to level them all prior to 5.0 it has honestly left a sour taste in my mouth. I'm still playing but I hardly get on and when I do I just get angry and log back off after I do an expert. I've been looking for other mmo's if anyone can suggest any.

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No other mmo is the same, don’t bother. FFXIV is at the top not only because it caters to casual play and “minimalist effort” but the way the game mechanics are set up make it unique. It’s like an Avatar chatting game mixed with FF mmo qualities. No other mmo feels the same.

I just play monster hunter world mostly because that game is the exact opposite of FFXIV in terms of effort and gameplay rewards. Plus the devs give both males and females a butt lol

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

FFXIV at this point cannot be saved, it would crash and burn of they took away all the easy rewards or didn't change the old stuff to be easier. 5.x took a major slide backwards on difficulty of everything, just look at Copied Factory, Eden, every single dungeon, Primals… so old things like crafting being cheapened with an easy button is to be expected.

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Copied factory is one of the hardest, if not the hardest alliance raid so far mechanics-wise. I feel Eden is comparable to Omega as well, though I haven't tried savage yet. I don't know how the balancing was back in ARR and HW, but at least since StB the Lv50 alliance raids have been a total joke. The Lv60 raids are kind of getting there, but things only got really interesting at Lv70. Part of it may be overgearing but fact is that the older content was mostly beating things with only an occasional mechanic, whereas later raids really require awareness to not get stomped on.

Dungeons have never been particularly hard, at least in the time I've played. Here, too, the later ones have more interesting mechanics and the current batch of expert dungeons have a few pulls where I really have to concentrate on healing.

As for the crafting changes, I'm pretty indifferent. I mostly craft for myself and my friends anyway. In my current circle I'm still the only one who has bothered to level up crafters.

I got all my crafters to level 70 back in stormblood. I did that grind. Doesn't mean I hate the fast exp gain now. I'm not one of those people who hates things being made easier even when I did it the hard way.

As has been said, crafting was never really hard when macros would be used for everything anyway. I've written my own macros to craft with even, many times now. You people are just mad that you won't be able to make tons of gil as easy since there will be a lot more items on the market. Gil that is useless anyway.

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Originally Posted by tdb

Copied factory is one of the hardest, if not the hardest alliance raid so far mechanics-wise.

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Really? I thought that was Ivalice. Esp since even on week one it was not uncommon to have a wipe-free Copied Factory run, while in Ivalice it was common to wipe repeatedly even weeks out of launch.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

wow what an extremely subjective statement. but opinions are opinions are like.... you know. everyone smells.

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Yet it only smells, when you dare to criticize, even if that is meant well.

Frankly, this game could do with some fair critiquing, because, as I said, Yoshida has been living in an echo chamber far too long and any descent is cut off. This is why we cant ask any real questions during interviews or live letters and critical reviews are usually buried. It's not because the game doesn't have flaws, its because SE and a very staunch part of the community, won't let it be known. I made the smallest comment about not liking something on reddit, just literally said "I can appreciate its design, but I do not like it from a personal design style pov" and was downvoted into oblivion. This is why everything is perceived as sunshine and lollipops.

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

You people are just mad that you won't be able to make tons of gil as easy since there will be a lot more items on the market.

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This right here is exactly why I don’t post here anymore lol. All people do in this game’s crafting community, is ask for macros, argue over casual vs hardcore crafting, swear to their grave that RNG =/= challenge, and witch hunt anyone who actually enjoyed earning a lot of gil. (I know, it’s so horrible someone likes playing the game that way. Those monsters.)

The crafting community has really become a joke since 4.0 started, and 5.1 just made it worse.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Yet it only smells, when you dare to criticize, even if that is meant well.

Frankly, this game could do with some fair critiquing, because, as I said, Yoshida has been living in an echo chamber far too long and any descent is cut off. This is why we cant ask any real questions during interviews or live letters and critical reviews are usually buried. It's not because the game doesn't have flaws, its because SE and a very staunch part of the community, won't let it be known. I made the smallest comment about not liking something on reddit, just literally said "I can appreciate its design, but I do not like it from a personal design style pov" and was downvoted into oblivion. This is why everything is perceived as sunshine and lollipops.

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Although I agree with you, a game’s community is represented by its developers efforts. If a community behaves a certain way, it’s mostly due to its developers and actions taken. For example, second life has a toxic community, and that is because the developers and GMs there are toxic themselves. (I would know, as I have actually met a second life developer in person. They were quite rude.) Anyways, I’m not a fan of Yoshida at all, and hopefully the next mmo has nothing to do with him. Otherwise, the community will more or less be the same, with the same low-effort game mechanics. The whole “our creator can do no wrong” brain washing-type community is something you can’t do anything about. I would recommend playing a different game, that’s what I’m doing, just kind of playing until my sub runs out. Wake me up when a better, less casual-bias director , creates a new mmo...

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Really? I thought that was Ivalice. Esp since even on week one it was not uncommon to have a wipe-free Copied Factory run, while in Ivalice it was common to wipe repeatedly even weeks out of launch.

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True, there's rarely a full wipe in Copied Factory, but people keep dying left and right. I don't recall having to do quite as much raising in any of the Ivalice raids. I guess Copied Factory is more forgiving to the mistakes of individual players though; Ivalice has several mechanics where a single misplaced mechanic can cause a wipe. So maybe they're just different kinds of hard.

I couldn't have said it better myself Nandrolone.

Again, I think they did make crafting a little too easy now. I didnt like how long it took before (at least for me) as I was stuck in the 40 to 50 slog for goldsmithing, but now it seems tweaked a little too much.

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Originally Posted by Nandrolone

This right here is exactly why I don’t post here anymore lol. All people do in this game’s crafting community, is ask for macros, argue over casual vs hardcore crafting, swear to their grave that RNG =/= challenge, and witch hunt anyone who actually enjoyed earning a lot of gil. (I know, it’s so horrible someone likes playing the game that way. Those monsters.)

The crafting community has really become a joke since 4.0 started, and 5.1 just made it worse.



Although I agree with you, a game’s community is represented by its developers efforts. If a community behaves a certain way, it’s mostly due to its developers and actions taken. For example, second life has a toxic community, and that is because the developers and GMs there are toxic themselves. (I would know, as I have actually met a second life developer in person. They were quite rude.) Anyways, I’m not a fan of Yoshida at all, and hopefully the next mmo has nothing to do with him. Otherwise, the community will more or less be the same, with the same low-effort game mechanics. The whole “our creator can do no wrong” brain washing-type community is something you can’t do anything about. I would recommend playing a different game, that’s what I’m doing, just kind of playing until my sub runs out. Wake me up when a better, less casual-bias director , creates a new mmo...

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Pantheon rise of the fallen, hardcore mmo that is in the works. When I say hardcore I mean hardcore you wont be doing anything by your lonesome or easily. Crafting will be a community thing so you want to be wealthy be ready to dedicate your game time to getting there. Want to raid..well better plan to spend 4-5 hours a couple days out of the week or you wont be raiding. Grouping will be the name of the game and soloing will be few and far between. :D

*munches popcorn and watches the thread unfold*

Don't mind me. I'm just watching the debate. ^_^

As easy as crafting/gathering are to level now, the economy seems about as barren as ever on my server with the same few individuals (Who are mostly bot farmers) waging a constant undercut war. It always becomes more lively after a new patch drops and there's high demand for the new items, but eventually degrades into its current state again. I think if anything, the easier crafting just means more people are going to make their own gear as opposed to actually getting involved with the market.

When everyone can craft everything so easily it makes for a stagnant market.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Frankly, this game could do with some fair critiquing, because, as I said <snip> ... I made the smallest comment about not liking something on reddit <snip> ... why everything is perceived as sunshine and lollipops.

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I dunno. Over the past 5 years I've seen a fair amount of 'critiquing' in these forums and on other forums as well. Well, 'complaining' and 'demanding' actually. When it's not too off-base, some of that gets designed into the game.

Sorry to hear that reddit forums, with their great propensity to downvote most everything, didn't take to your comments from your own "personal design style pov". I assume you are a game developer or artist or some other job where you've actually designed something in a game, and were calm and collected in your remarks. Or not. It's so hard to tell on that particular forum.

Imagine the chaos here if downvotes were possible. Then realize why SE doesn't do that sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Pantheon rise of the fallen, hardcore mmo that is in the works.

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Looks like any number of other 'hardcore mmo' games. I would assume they can pull it off in much the same way that their chief creative officer did for EverQuest ... if you enjoyed that game, you might like this one. What is worrying is that they've been at this for five years now, and are still in pre-alpha. And their chief creative officer passed away this year. Unless it takes off in a massive way, one may find that it, like many crowdfunded offerings, is great on release and then withers and dies when subscription rates can't pay for continuing developer time.

I wish you joy in your new endeavor.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Looks like any number of other 'hardcore mmo' games. I would assume they can pull it off in much the same way that their chief creative officer did for EverQuest ... if you enjoyed that game, you might like this one. What is worrying is that they've been at this for five years now, and are still in pre-alpha. And their chief creative officer passed away this year. Unless it takes off in a massive way, one may find that it, like many crowdfunded offerings, is great on release and then withers and dies when subscription rates can't pay for continuing developer time.

I wish you joy in your new endeavor.

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I have no intention of playing it just mentioned since there are people who want something harder.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Looks like any number of other 'hardcore mmo' games. I would assume they can pull it off in much the same way that their chief creative officer did for EverQuest ... if you enjoyed that game, you might like this one. What is worrying is that they've been at this for five years now, and are still in pre-alpha. And their chief creative officer passed away this year. Unless it takes off in a massive way, one may find that it, like many crowdfunded offerings, is great on release and then withers and dies when subscription rates can't pay for continuing developer time.

I wish you joy in your new endeavor.

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They have a super small team, and Brad's passing has not effected anything. They actually started doing bi-weekly play throughs and developer streams. It will be something new yet old and but different from what we have today and they are not expecting a super large, wow-killing player base size. It's being designed with the idea that it will be a niche game as they are not catering to the "gimme gimme right now" crowd. No cash shop, no boosts, etc. So that at least gives them a better chance than most games who want to be HUGE out of the game, (eg: ashes of creation).

But writing off small games immediately because they are small/indie games, is why they struggle.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Really? I thought that was Ivalice. Esp since even on week one it was not uncommon to have a wipe-free Copied Factory run, while in Ivalice it was common to wipe repeatedly even weeks out of launch.

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I would compare Copied Factory to Rabanastre if we want to use any of the Ivalice Raids. Full wipes after the first week were rare as well. I would highly expect the third Nier Raid to be a total wipe fest when we get it late ShB just like Cid... er, I mean Orbonne in SB. I also wouldn't use full wipes but rather individual KOs to determine how much mechanics are being failed. One alliance being down, or too many KOd players during the DPS checks is typically what causes full on wipes. Even when the later Nier raids come out and mechanics become more punishing, it just isn't plausible to gauge the difficulty of it when very few players can screw things up for the whole raid.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I would compare Copied Factory to Rabanastre if we want to use any of the Ivalice Raids. Full wipes after the first week were rare as well. I would highly expect the third Nier Raid to be a total wipe fest when we get it late ShB just like Cid... er, I mean Orbonne in SB. I also wouldn't use full wipes but rather individual KOs to determine how much mechanics are being failed. One alliance being down, or too many KOd players during the DPS checks is typically what causes full on wipes. Even when the later Nier raids come out and mechanics become more punishing, it just isn't plausible to gauge the difficulty of it when very few players can screw things up for the whole raid.

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This wasnt quite my experience for rabanasty. Now i havent run CF as many times(yet) as i eventually did for raba, but i have yet to see an actual wipe to any CF fight(ive seen some very slow wins while half or more of an alliance was taking a nap, but no total wipes). I saw at least a handful of wipes to each boss in raba, plus however many runs that vote abandoned and never cleared. A few of the attacks feel like they were tuned a little higher relative to the base ilvl, a few of them felt like they came out in quicker succession(or if not quicker, maybe more dangerous attacks back to back? - admittedly quick sequences with recovery periods in between seems to be the current model), and for whatever reason add phases seemed more dangerous back then(the only add phase i never saw wipe a raba party was the one for the final boss).

Now for all this "back in the day" talk, im not saying i thought raba was too difficult(if anything, the CF run feels a little too easy). Most parties i ended up in were perfectly capable of clearing. I knew all the mechanics and could do them without issue long before the runs started to clear consistently without hassle. But i also remember for a lot longer then a month that i never thought a run was in the bag until we cleared hashbrowns. Get past him? You got this(even though a slow to react group could still mess up the rofo add phase or maybe the meteors in the final boss). Until that fight was over? All bets were off.

jump potion for alchemists? What about rocket boots!

I mean, nowadays, it's not really needed. GC turnings are almost 1-2 levels a day with HQ items. Gathering, especially low level, is very quick. (I'm still fishing anchovies on my alt and I gained 9 levels after like 5 fish).


Combat classes are simple, but they don't directly impact the market like crafters/gatherers, so I can understand why they would when DoH/DoL do not.

I still miss the instant kill button for raid bosses :/
Plz let me buy a potion that enables the instant kill button so i can use my free time for things that are fun again.

Next month Ishgard Restoration will have gatherers involved. For crafting the xp was stupid good so i imagine will be the same for gathering.
I may finally get my fisher past 50, lol

I definitely understand the resentment from everyone who's leveled DoH/DoL classes before the updated system (which definitely seemed a lot more tedious); it can be pretty annoying when you see people griping about how hard something is when it's been much simplified from what it was before and made easier to accomplish.

I can't really comment on much myself since I joined after the changes, but personally I like the crafting system a lot. It feels way more engaging that WoW's ever was, and it's always so satisfying when you manage to nail HQ. It feels almost like you're actually crafting something (WVR in particular has a special place to me as someone who really enjoys weaving irl; so relaxing!).

I'm just sad I only have so much time to spend on this game or I'd be leveling my crafting/gathering alongside story progression. As for me, once I max out crafting, I will still happily be putting those skills to use simply because it's fun. I kind of wish sometimes I joined sooner to see how things used to be, but maybe it wouldn't have felt as accessible so who knows? All I know is I love everything this game has to offer and I'm sure many feel the same way (especially fellow WoW refugees).