BLM AOE Rotation

Hello all,

I just wanted to discuss the most effective AOE rotation for BLM.

Currently, mine goes something like this:

Ley Lines > Blizzard 3 > Enochian > Sharpcast > Thunder IV > Freeze > Flare (2) > Convert > Swiftcast > Flare > Transpose > Enochian > Freeze > Flare (2) > Transpose > Triplecast > Foul > Fire 3 > Fire 2 > Flare > Transpose > Freeze > Flare (2)

I was just curious if anyone had a different rotation or had any helpful comments or critiques on my BLM AOE rotation.

Thanks for the discussion.

Really depends if you're looking for cool downs aoe, or general aoe. For the most part that's right minus ogcd clipping in your rotation and the f2. You can pretty much remove f2 from your bar.

Against 5 or more targets (maybe it was 6, I can't recall) its actually better to 'cold' flare, as in casting a flare while in umbral ice after freeze, then hard casting a second flare into a freeze again.

Thank you! Could you tell me what you mean by ogcd clipping? Also thanks for the tip on f2.

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Originally Posted by Saranade

Thank you! Could you tell me what you mean by ogcd clipping? Also thanks for the tip on f2.

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Off global cooldown clipping. So ogcd spells are spells that dont roll your gcd, like leylines, enochian, triple cast, swift cast, ect. Those spells have an animation lock of sorts that slow your spell output if you dont weave them correctly.

So for example, casting f3 or b3 to change from UI or AF has a faster cast time than your gcd, you can afford to weave one ogcd there. Then there's triple cast which you can weave an ogcd after each instant cast. Triple cast becomes more of a weaving tool for blm than just a movement tool.

So let's say you're walking between pulls, you have UI 3 and 3 hearts because of umbral soul, you can walk up to the next mob, t4, f3 triple cast, flare, ley lines, flare, convert, flare freeze, ect. In that scenario 3 ogcds were used, but none of them would slow the start time if the next spell

Also outside of certain circumstances I wouldn't really pre leylines. Pre sharpcast instead since the buff will last long enough to get its effect. Pre ll only wastes ll time on a spell you would likely be precasting before a target was pulled, so that's kind of wasted effect.

So say in your rotation scenario it sounds like you're starting off a dungeon with no previous combat yet. If I really wanted to fully burn a first pull, I would pre cast sharp while we're moving in, freeze, eno, t4, f3 triple cast, flare, leylines, flare, convert, flare, freeze, t4 proc, cold flare because they're likely almost dead, then slightly ogcd clip a swift cast flare. Transpose, spam umbral soul to go to the next fight. You should never have to start from scratch again in the dungeon to get as many fouls/xenoglossy's as possible.

Depending on the dungeon and how much your tank pulls, you may want to save more cds for bigger pulls. If the first pull can be chain pulled, you may want to just rush a freeze, or even a b1/f1 off to activate eno, get a t3/t4 off on the mobs while the tank is running, AM to the tank between a couple casts, then when the train stops start burning everything, but by the time it stops, you may already have ui3, a couple umbral hearts, and possibly a natural thunder proc. The important thing in that case is getting your enochian on as soon as possible and never lose it again.

Ah yes! Very much appreciate the explanations, this will be adapted into my rotation.

Once you get aspect mastery which is a level 72 trait, you don't have to use transpose in your rotation unless you are doing level synched content below 72. You may use it after you kill a pack of mobs to then be able to use umbral soul if you were in umbral fire, but not during battle. You can cast the opposite element with 0 mp. So you can adjust your rotation around this. After your last despair/flare, you can go right into casting blizz 3/freeze.

I pulled this one from Reddit and it's the rotation I generally use for aoe.

Freeze(Sharpcast)>T4>Foul(when available)>F3(T4 proc&Triplecast)>Flare>Flare(Manafont)>Flare(Swiftcast & Ether)>Flare>repeat. Not needing to transpose after flares anymore just keeps the dps flowing so much smoother now. Note you can be as low as 800MP* and still Flare.

Ah yes! I indeed forgot Transpose is seemingly unnecessary during battle. I also am trying to figure out how to add despair more often into my single target rotations.

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Originally Posted by Mendalas

Freeze(Sharpcast)>T4>Foul(when available)>F3(T4 proc&Triplecast)>Flare>Flare(Manafont)>Flare(Swiftcast & Ether)>Flare>repeat. Not needing to transpose after flares anymore just keeps the dps flowing so much smoother now. Note you can be as low as 800MP* and still Flare.

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This is what I use. It does require the level 72 trait to be able to use, however, as a word of warning. You'll have to adjust when you get synced down for stuff.

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Originally Posted by Mendalas

Ah yes! I indeed forgot Transpose is seemingly unnecessary during battle. I also am trying to figure out how to add despair more often into my single target rotations.

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Despair should be used right after your last Fire IV which you should always have enough mana for if nothing unusual happened. Think of it as a finishing move for your fire stance. The same trait that lets you go right from Flare to Freeze in the AoE rotation will let you go right from Despair to Blizzard 3 in the single target one, but you don't have to worry about level sync in this case since Despair is earned at the same level.

Hey, you can see the aoe rotation in this guide. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.gy9ygct7qq40

The only thing I would add is to precast Sharpcast and T4 as your open when encountering a set of mobs.

I know that casting Flare after Freeze makes it go off faster, but wouldn't it be more efficient to first cast Fire III after Freeze to get the Astral Fire damage bonus for the two Flares?

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Originally Posted by daespinoza

I know that casting Flare after Freeze makes it go off faster, but wouldn't it be more efficient to first cast Fire III after Freeze to get the Astral Fire damage bonus for the two Flares?

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Here are some quick numbers (Not accounting for Thunder IV, Foul, and oGCDs, which would just increase numbers all around)

https://i.imgur.com/UXMLvNu.png

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Originally Posted by daespinoza

I know that casting Flare after Freeze makes it go off faster, but wouldn't it be more efficient to first cast Fire III after Freeze to get the Astral Fire damage bonus for the two Flares?

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Rongway has the hard bruteforce math, but think of a different question:

'Wouldn't it be more efficient to do only an AoE rotation, instead of interrupting your AoE to do minor single target damage?'

Not to mention, single target damage doesn't always affect the time-to-die of an AoE pack, which means that it doesn't always count in terms of efficiency.

I didn't even think of it that way. Thank you so much for the input!

Always cast Fire III.
That math is bad; it's missing Crits. You should have around a one in six chance to crit, which is nothing to scoff at, and those crits deal +50% damage. Also missing Direct Hits, which have around a one in four chance to happen, dealing a flat +25% damage, which stacks with crits (should they happen simultaneously).
Those chances are so high, that even with the worst luck in the world, you're dealing one or the other multiple times a fight.
It's simple maths: when you multiply a big number instead of a small one, you get an even bigger one. A crit "cold" Flare is a sad, sad thing, where a crit "hot" Flare is glorious.

Plus, Triplecast (and Manafont) exist. Why wouldn't you be using all the tools at your disposal?

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Originally Posted by Fenli

That math is bad

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You didn't provide a quote, so I'm going to assume you're talking about mine.

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Plus, Triplecast (and Manafont) exist. Why wouldn't you be using all the tools at your disposal?

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I addressed this. They're excluded from the math because they won't change the conclusion. If you use all the same oGCDs in both rotations, all the extra Flares will be performed under the same conditions in both rotations and will increase the numbers in both scenarios in similar ways. Any difference between the two rotations will come down to starting with (Fire III + Flare) vs just casting Flare. I never said not to use them. They just don't matter when the specific question is "should I cast Fire III or not?"

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it's missing Crits. You should have around a one in six chance to crit, which is nothing to scoff at, and those crits deal +50% damage. Also missing Direct Hits, which have around a one in four chance to happen, dealing a flat +25% damage, which stacks with crits (should they happen simultaneously).
Those chances are so high, that even with the worst luck in the world, you're dealing one or the other multiple times a fight.
It's simple maths: when you multiply a big number instead of a small one, you get an even bigger one. A crit "cold" Flare is a sad, sad thing, where a crit "hot" Flare is glorious.

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These also don't matter when the specific question is "should I cast Fire III or not?"

The expected damage of a Fire III hit is
(critrate * (1+critbonus)) * fire3dmg + (1-critrate)*fire3dmg
=(critrate + critrate*critbonus + 1 - critrate) * fire3dmg
=(1 + critrate * critbonus) * fire3dmg

Each Flare hit is an independent event, and the expected outcome of each independent Flare hit is
(critrate * (1+critbonus)) * flarehit_i + (1-critrate)*flarehit_i
=(critrate + critrate*critbonus + 1 - critrate) * flarehit_i
=(1 + critrate * critbonus) * flarehit_i

The sum of the expected damage from each Flare hit is
(1 + critrate * critbonus) * flaredmg_1 + (1 + critrate * critbonus) * flaredmg_2 + ... + (1 + critrate * critbonus) * flaredmg_n

Or
= (1 + critrate * critbonus) * sum[i=1..n](flaredmg_i)

So if you want to compare the damage between a "cold" Fire III and a "cold" Flare, you can compare them directly without worrying about crit, because inequality relations are preserved under (positive) multiplication and division.
(1 + critrate * critbonus) * fire3dmg < (1 + critrate * critbonus) * sum[i=1..n](flaredmg_i)
===> fire3dmg < sum[i=1..n](flaredmg_i)

Critting a single target attack doesn't make it better than an AoE attack just because of the crit; the AoE attack will crit just as often, on average, and what matters is the total damage across all hits in the cast.

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Originally Posted by Fenli

It's simple maths: when you multiply a big number instead of a small one, you get an even bigger one.

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That's why skipping Fire III can be good. F3 can only ever hit one target so its damage is proportional to potency * 1. Flare can hit many targets so the damage it produces is roughly potency * (potentially big number). Flare is also higher potency than F3 in the fire place, and when used under Umbral Ice they both cast faster than their recast time, so F3 isn't any faster.

OP why do you have a second Enochian in your rotation?

I know it already looks to be sorta covered, but B3 is probably unnecessary in OP's rotation as well. Just start with Freeze. Also everything after that second double Flare looks a bit of a mess. Transpose (which already covered unnecessary), leading into a F3 into F2 into Flare. Seems pretty sketchy to rely on MP ticks from one UI stack being enough to get you through that, even with Triplecast. And F2 when you could be double Flaring again.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

what matters is the total damage across all hits in the cast.

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Correct, which is why you want AF3 crit Flares