Inner Release rework: Return of the Zerker

Greetings fellow warriors,

today I am gonna present a few changes to our current Inner Release ability.
My goal is a slightly more complex and enjoyable rotation that interacts with our burst instead of "just have SE buff for at least 16s" and ignore Gauge. That's because - and I am gonna be blunt here - the current version is hella boring and dull, not engaging in the slightest.
The new ability is a mix from HW Berserk and 4.1 Inner Release/Berserk merged with the new stack/GCD buffs introduced with 5.1.

Berserk: 90s Recast, Increases damage dealt by [30-50]%. Duration: 20s

Inner Release: 90s recast, Grants 4 stacks of Inner Release, each stack allowing the use of Beast Gauge weaponskills without cost.
(Weaponskills = Fell Cleave, Decimate, Inner Chaos, and Chaotic Cyclone). Duration: 20s
Additional Effect: Nullifies Stun, Sleep, Bind, Heavy, and most knockback and draw-in effects. Duration: 10s

The old HW Berserk increased your damage by a wooping 50% for 20s on 90s recast, but applied a 5s pacification debuff that was mostly dealt by using a BRD with The Warden's Paean. And that fact was a huge flaw because healers never "wanted" to esuna, and thus a BRD was must-have - and also for other reasons.

During 4.0-4.1 Berserk was a 60s CD that granted 30% flat damage buff for 20s, while IR was a 120s CD that halved ALL Beast Gauge cost during its duration - 20s also. The problem: this IR burst was prone to downtime/disengagements, as it could happen that the gauge was left with an uneven number, e.g. 25. After the duration of IR wore off, there was no opportunity to use this uneven number without wasting gauge or weaking your next burst, so you just had to ignore the overflow/loss. Another problem was that the Infuriate trait was useless after the opener. It ensured that Infuriate was ready during every Berserk (60s) past the opener, but was left unused past that.

I think the idea of havling the cost is - or was - quite interessting and imo should come back in a different form - in this case in form of stacks that are spent once you use your Beast Gauge GCDs.

With my suggested rework, you should be able to land 6 FC + 2 IR, 1 Upheaval + 1 Onslaught in every Berserk + 1 SP (prefered).
I've separated Berserk from IR, so you can control your gauge generation during burst, and use Infuriate/Nascent Chaos [Inner Chaos/Chaotic Cyclone] in raid buffs - instead of 5x FC and then IR/CC outside of raid buffs. The knockback effect is now an additional buff you can turn off in case you must do so, without losing your stacks. Baking it into Berserk would make it too strong, 20s of knockback preventing is way too much.

PROS:
-A more complex, rewarding rotation
-Burst interacts more with the rotation and its gauge generation
-Nascent Chaos (IC and CC) can and should be used during Berserk/IR, no more "wasted" IC during IR
-MOAR FC during bursts
-DH can be melded, omni-tank gear has better synergy across all tanks
-Infuriate trait (5s reset) still usefull, it ensures 2 IR during Berserk
-Works with slower SkS also (recommended)

CONS:
-Less stable and slow start (first burst 1/8 FC will be used outside of Berserk/raid buffs)
-Downtime can mess with gauge generation needed for burst
-Less FC outside burst windows

Additional changes:
-Remove Beast gauge cost from Upheaval
Reason
The 'saved' gauge is necessary for 2nd Berserk, or you end up opercapping or not enough gauge. Also, in later stages, gauge overflow will get dumped into Onslaught, granting higher mobility without sacrificing FC casts nor causing rotation issues.

-Increase SE duration when Onslaught is used
Reason
My early rotation mapping shows that SE will drop after each Berserk for at least 1 GCD. Instead of simply increasing its duration by x seconds (also a possibility), I would like to see another mechanic/ability/trait that allows us to maintain buffs. It's also a good buff/QoL change for dungeons. Additionaly, Mythril Tempests SE duration increase should get buffed to 15s, up from 10s.

Additional notes:

This Berserk window is and was - imho - a better design for lower levels, especially for leveling. While the current Berserk just guarantees critDH for 10s, the new one gives a high damage buff with CHANCES to crit/DH for 20s. I think it would feel more powerful that way. Also the 20s is more forgiving and less punishing than 10s of "higher burst", you can actually play on lower GCD speed and still land 9 GCDs in your buff window.

Some of you might ask: "Why 4 stacks without cost, why not 8 stacks that half the cost? It's the same result!"
When I was mapping out the rotation, it seemed over the top complicated, and punishing once you lose the stacks. And there is still the problem that you might end up at an uneven gauge number, unless stacks stay for an unlimited duration. It also ended in 5 or 6 FC/IR getting used in Berserk in the opener, unless super delayed. With the current suggestion it's 7, and 3 of them are IR. This also compensates the 1 missing FC during your Berserk.
In my current rotation mapping 2 IR and 3 FC + 1 Upheaval + 1 Onslaught are being used inside raid buffs, including the opener.

Of course all this requires potency adjustments across the board and/or redesign of IR/CC, and changes to Nascent Flash's healing portion.

I scraped that idea, new one here

Shared Links:

Job Action, Trait, and Gauge changes:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LzAxxAFVQ0hMDZSB_3Q0JSxi9P4-0C9E/view?usp=sharing

Rotation Mapping:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yA9fsXiRHXCM0oBTvKIq4hCfjxD_SFWW/view?usp=sharing

Nice ideas.
I just don't fully get why you separated Berserk from IR. Can you give us a more precised exemple of when you wouldn't use Berserk and IR ate the same time?

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Originally Posted by Jokersoal

I just don't fully get why you separated Berserk from IR. Can you give us a more precised exemple of when you wouldn't use Berserk and IR ate the same time?

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Sure, imagine you're starting your burst/Berserk. Your gauge is at 100, and you have 1 or 2 Infuriate ready.

Should IR start with Berserk your gauge wouldn't lower for the next 4-5 FC/Dezimate, thus you wouldn't be able to use Infuriate at all (well, unless you want to waste 50 gauge), thus not gaining the Nascent Chaos buff for IC/CC, which again you want to use in raid buff windows. Infuriate wouldn't be used after the 5th FC, and at that time raid buffs wore off.

With IR being separated from Berserk, you use FC, lose 50 gauge, use Inf, gain 50 and Nascent Chaos. Use IC/CC, lose 50, use Infuriate again and IR. You are now at 100 again, not losing gauge for the next 4 gauge skills, yet already used both Infuriate, and both Nascent Chaos skills inside raid buffs.

However, if your raid buffs consist of Battle Voice and Battle Litany only (and IC/CC are still guaranteed critDH skills), then it would be better to use IR asap. Whereas if your raid buffs have flat dmg increase (such as Brotherhood, Embolden or Devotion), it's better to use IR/CC as early as possible. But as you can see, having separated buttons gives us the freedom of choice, and adds a slight complexitiy to it, allowing you to vary your rotation between party compositions.

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

Sure, imagine you're starting your burst/Berserk. Your gauge is at 100, and you have 1 or 2 Infuriate ready.

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Ok I see, ty for the explanation.

Regarding how you see the rotation I would have kept burst phases closer to 4.1 war. An interesting part of the 4.1 burt phases is "I have an IRzerk phase and a berserk phase": you had to avoid delaying 1 of your 2 buffs (berserk and 4.1 IR), otherwise you had to delay your burst phases to realign them. Also, on some fights or phases, I heard you could also start by berserk alone then IRzerk and etc because it would align better with the fight ( a bit like pld's fof/recquiescat) -> you could "choose" between 2 "rotations". That 2 things were rewarding (ok the last one was very very niche but still)

Your rotation keep the " I need to set up my gauge and my infuriate before my burst" which is nice but I think it lacks what I wrote just above ( or sth similar of course). Your rotation would feel more synergistic with the raid buffs but wouldn't be really more rewarding than 4.2 warrior you still spam the 6 weapon skill in a row and it is even easier than 4.2 warrior because it works with stacks with 20s (still my personal opinion though). The 4.1 warrior was also like that but the halved costs made that "more punishing" but then more rewarding (still I think you could still repair the 25 gauge in excess).

I read a post that proposed to take the 4.1 war's rotation and IC/CC would come from an infuriate trait like " each 5 FC/Decimate you do gives you a buff that allow you to use IC/CC", would work like a confiteor/ finisher in your burst phases. Maybe it's better with the 4.1 kit?

Finally, don't misunderstand my post, still nice to see people caring about war's current state and yeah, it's hard to combine the 2 rotations because they don't work the same way, 4.2 war's burst is very unrelated to our base rotation meanwhile 4.1 needs a set up with the gauge,etc.

Keep up the hard work!

Thanks for your response.

On the topic 4.1 "IRzerk and zerk phase": I don't think it would be unique enough. We already have PLD, GNB, now even DRK, and many many jobs that play around a 60s/120s windows (SAM, NIN, MCH, DNC, SMN, RDM, SCH [Chain], AST [Divination]). Not only would it play too similar to those jobs (especially DRK and GNB, I hope they redesign DRK soon, and for a good one), but tbh I don't even know how it would turn out with the current chargesystem on Infuriate. And... maybe I am just swimming in nostalgia here because of HW... I wanted to keep the new rotation similar to the old one as much as possible (well, current version included). I imagine a 60s/120s window would turn out as 4.1 rotation which... honestly... is too stale. There is no variation or some kind. In case of downtime you also can't adjust. e.g. in O4s - iirc - your 2nd burst (normal zerk) started at 60 gauge, you there was nothing you could've done to increase this amount. There are just so few GCDs between bursts to compensate this.

The new one here has some FCs between bursts, so it's possible to plan for downtime, leave some FCs from your rotation, and you'll have full gauge for burst.

I also read that post about IC/CC for every 5th hit. The problem here is, you can't really control the IC/CC outcome. It would turn out as huge damage loss when it triggers outside of Berserk.

It's just fascinating that SE thought, "hey let's remove all the 'issues' that every job, every character in every MMO/RPG ever had. Crit-luck during burst! Let's remove one big aspect we know from almost every RPG game from this one particular job!"
Honestly, one big fun factor (or frustration factor, lol) is crit-luck. IR just takes that away. It made even less sense during 4.2 when Deliverance gave you crit rate bonus equal to your gauge, completely ignoring its aspect during your burst. It's dumb, boring, unexciting, and out of place for an MMORPG. /rantend

Limiting the number of burst opportunities to pair with Nascent Flash is a significant downside to these changes, as far as I'm concerned, so I can't really say I'm in favor of them.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

Limiting the number of burst opportunities to pair with Nascent Flash is a significant downside to these changes, as far as I'm concerned, so I can't really say I'm in favor of them.

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Already included in "additional notes":

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

Of course all this requires potency adjustments across the board and/or redesign of IR/CC, and changes to Nascent Flash's healing portion.

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Upheaval timing remains unchanged, and you still have ~1 FC every 30s. The current rotation (5.1) has 2 IR+1 FC best case, or 1 FC worst case during Nascent Flash, so at least that one doesn't change.

Forgive me, but saying that non-specific changes would need to be made to Nascent Flash in order to accommodate other changes doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

I'll acknowledge that you put a footnote for it (which I had seen and read), but Nascent Flash should be at the forefront of these kinds of conversations, to my mind.

That's not to say that your proposed changes would neuter Nascent Flash healing, but it would necessarily consolidate more of WAR's burst into a single window. That is, you wouldn't be able to spread Inner Chaos across separate Nascent Flash windows without a severe DPS loss. That said, funneling all of WAR's burst into a single Nascent Flash window isn't even a bad thing; the issue is that you would have to do it--and at specific intervals.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

Forgive me, but saying that non-specific changes would need to be made to Nascent Flash in order to accommodate other changes doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

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Y'know that's something called freedom of design. I am not here to make every single specific change to abilities or numbers because I don't have the time or man-power to do so. I didn't write any fix numbers on Berserks dmg increase either.

Nascent Flash is not a reliable healing tool. Nascent Flash is first and foremost a support ability. If your co-tank needs your support on mitigation, you give them mitigation. You can't wait for 5 more seconds because of "muh burst healz". Also, mechanics differ from fight to fight. There are no "specific intervals" you can apply to every fight. Neither would you save an Infuriate for your upcoming Nascent Flash, this would result in damage loss if used outside of raid buffs (such as Trick Attack) or screw your rotation. There are already 60s/90s shifting windows for Nascent Flash, at least one window will fall out of the category of "power healing".

WAR doesn't comprise of Nascent Flash only, as you make it sound like. If anything WAR is, and always was, designed with 1 big burst window, and low sustain damage, and any other ability should embrace this design.

Nascent Flash could get a fixed healing amount similar to MCH Wildfire, you heal x pot per GCD/ability/hit.

PS: Or... and that would change the whole rotation once more... make Infuriate not usable during Berserk, thus not triggering the Nascent Chaos buff. Or Berserk ignores the Nascent Chaos buff that so IC/CC can't be used then. Whether I or you like this change or not, in the end it is the SE design team that sets the rules. I am just here to embrace to change the current rules-- because I and many other think that IR and DelIRium are mistakes.
Just because it works in its current form, doesn't mean it's enjoyable. They achieved this by removing an aspect they thought 'twas an issue.

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

Y'know that's something called freedom of design.

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Freedom of design is your ability to design however you see fit. The bit about Nascent Flash in the footnote of your post is, frankly, not design.

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I am not here to make every single specific change to abilities or numbers because I don't have the time or man-power to do so.

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That's more than fine, but then why do you pretend like you've adequately addressed Nascent Flash when you clearly haven't given it much specific consideration?

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Nascent Flash is not a reliable healing tool.

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I "rely" on Nascent Flash as a healing tool in every single fight in the game, so I don't really know where you're trying to go with this.

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Nascent Flash is first and foremost a support ability. If your co-tank needs your support on mitigation, you give them mitigation.

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WAR is often, if not almost always, using Nascent Flash over Raw Intuition. So, no, Nascent Flash is not "first and foremost" a support ability--not in practice. At most, I would say Nascent Flash is equally important as a personal cooldown as it is as a targeted support cooldown.

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There are no "specific intervals" you can apply to every fight.

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Not universally, no, but that specific interval will be more or less consistent within a given fight, which may or may not line up with when you want/need Nascent Flash.

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Neither would you save an Infuriate for your upcoming Nascent Flash, this would result in damage loss if used outside of raid buffs (such as Trick Attack) or screw your rotation. There are already 60s/90s shifting windows for Nascent Flash, at least one window will fall out of the category of "power healing".

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That's not the point. The point is that the opportunities in which you can use Inner Chaos with Nascent Flash will necessarily be limited to a 20 second window roughly every 90 seconds.

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WAR doesn't comprise of Nascent Flash only, as you make it sound like.

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What an absurd statement. When I say Nascent Flash should be at the forefront of these conversations, I don't mean at the expense of everything else. All I'm saying is that Nascent Flash is one of the most important aspects of WAR's form and function, at the moment. If you don't personally care about Nascent Flash, then that's fine, but you should make that clear if so.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

WAR is often, if not almost always, using Nascent Flash over Raw Intuition. So, no, Nascent Flash is not "first and foremost" a support ability--not in practice. At most, I would say Nascent Flash is equally important as a personal cooldown as it is as a targeted support cooldown.

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Your desire for it to not be a support cooldown will not change that it is intended to be the Warrior's support cooldown with Raw Intuition being the Warrior's intended 30s cooldown.

I have no such desire, and, as a player, I don't care what the developers intended (outside of obvious bugs/exploits).

I'm simply doing what yields better results.

As soon as SE makes Nascent Flash inferior to Raw Intuition for personal use (whether by design or by circumstance), I will stop using it for personal use.

Id put a 20 sec duration on the stacks of IR so that way SE will allow it to continued to be used out of combat.

And my personal preference would be to have it also eliminate the cost of onslaught as well.

So, IR is replacing infuriate right? Seems like the same thing.

If so, id rather rhey keep the name infuriate and just have ir be a trait.

I think the days of berserk, internal release and three fell cleaves are long gone. 3.0 was definitely the peak of WAR optimization but sadly I think those days are gone. SE is very adamant on homogenization of the tanks in favor of balance. Personally, I think IR is fine as is and its still the strongest burst cd among the tanks but it is undoubtedly monotonous. If they added some sort of synergy with the beast gauge like if you pop IR at max gauge the IC buff is applied for the duration of IR, then there might be some thought into when you should use it.

Honestly... These changes seem stupid at best. It's a general consensus that late SB WAR was the closest to perfection any job has ever been in terms of end game content. There is no need to change core mechanics like this, and your proposition would make WAR shit tier.

WAR is still one of the most stable tanks if you actually know what you are doing and time your burst phases right. The only "valid" complaint about war is the lack of ogcds, because somehow people like pressing multiple buttons, it makes them feel like they are better at the game. But i digress...

Nowadays WAR might be dumbed down quite a lot, and i agree it is. But in exchange it is by far the most beginner friendly tank ( and also the favored tank for those playing with high latency ). As it's rotation is not only easy to learn but also simple to maintain. Do keep in mind that all kinds of people play this game, and different jobs need different levels of complexity. So to those complaining about "not enough buttons to press" i say: If you wanna button mash why not switch to GNB?

Sorry for the long post.

Regards from an old man that still likes to play despite his age and loves WAR for not making his wrists ache.

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Originally Posted by Steinar

Honestly... These changes seem stupid at best.

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Well, thanks for that...

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It's a general consensus that late SB WAR was the closest to perfection any job has ever been in terms of end game content.

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You confuse "best DPS tank" with "job perfection". WAR is far from being perfect as it ever could've been. Since 4.2 Warrior has been buffed, optimized and badly designed. Now SE drags DRK into this mess and created an abomination with the new DelIRium changes in 5.0.
Warrior might've been optimized in its rotation, but its bad design brings too many flaws, and a big lack of flexibility. The amount of critDH skills on WAR stupidly high, yet FC doesn't have that much of an impact it used to be. If you lower the power of a (signature) skill to make it fit as a guaranteed critDH, it literally screams bad design. (IC would need ~1200 potency if it wasn't for its critDH effect)

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There is no need to change core mechanics like this, and your proposition would make WAR shit tier.

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Your argument?

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WAR is still one of the most stable tanks if you actually know what you are doing and time your burst phases right. The only "valid" complaint about war is the lack of ogcds, because somehow people like pressing multiple buttons, it makes them feel like they are better at the game. But i digress...

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I couldn't care less about having just a few oGCDs to none if this job acutally had some complexity. At least the current version lacks synergy on its own. Onslaught costs gauge and messes with your rotation outside your burst, Upheaval is used on CD no matter what - it's Spirits Within/Blasting Zone/Carve and Spit with gauge cost for whatever reason - and Storm's Eye has become an eyesore to maintain compared to other jobs (no pun intended).
Take a look at DRG, it has probably the simplest GCD rotation, and thier jump/dragon eye mechanic in combination with their damage buffs makes it more complex.
Even MCH has some complexity to it despite the low button count. Since their burst is tied to their gauge, and they have to keep an eye on Drill/AA, not using Hypercharge when one of those is less than 8s on CD etc.
WAR has nothing of that.

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Nowadays WAR might be dumbed down quite a lot, and i agree it is. But in exchange it is by far the most beginner friendly tank ( and also the favored tank for those playing with high latency ). As it's rotation is not only easy to learn but also simple to maintain. Do keep in mind that all kinds of people play this game, and different jobs need different levels of complexity.

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Nowadays a kindergarten child could sit behind the monitor, and play a decent warrior - it's become this simple and dumb. If we don't count MSQ role play buttons, warrior is last in line of complexity by far - because of the reasons I mentioned above.
Also, 'beginner-friendly' is relative. PLD is beginner-friendly, and has a very simple rotation, too. Yet, this job has at least SOME complexity, and can optimize by changing the opener depending on fight mechanics. WAR can't do that.

Making things brain dead doesn't solve problems.

Greetings everyone,

I scraped the idea in the OP, and - instead of just simply changing Inner Release - thought about a redesign to bring back the feeling of HW Warrior I've seen people actually enjoyed the most together with the 4.05 version.

For better appreciation I advise to take a look at the Trait and Gauge changes shown in the doc below.

The general idea of this rework is to building up on the old stack system from HW and implement it into todays expansion while still creating a very unique gauge - that don't just have basic 100 pts, or 1/2/3 stacks etc.
This (old?)new one holds up to 7 stacks, and acts as a buff once more!

Similar to ARR Wrath/HW Abandon stacks, each unit increases our crit hit rate, to a maximum of 10% - hit at 5 stacks - max increase reached way faster than during Stormblood. But in contrast to the old one - in which every combo skill simply gave 1 stack each - the newer still uses Storm's Path increased gauge accumulation, thus the increased stack number. Which is necessary because we lack the stack generation through defensive abilities. I would rather not include it either because those abilities shouldn't interrupt or interact with your dps rotation as an everchanging variable, or it will end up getting used for dps rotation instead of an optimized mitigation. Also increases flexibity and optimization option on gauge generation.
Note: SE could've simply turned down to a 20s buff, and both ST combo would take turns. But that system is not only old, but was used in a more complex... 'environment', so it wouldn't play as interessting or exiting as it used to be.

At level 70, you gain 1 additional maximum stack thanks to the addition of Beast Gauge oGCD spenders, and the changes done to Inner Release - and that's where we get to the other core change of Warrior - Berserk and Inner Release.

Berserk has been reverted to HW version, minus the debuff. A great dmg increase of 50%, and the gain of 1 stack - without this guaranteed critDH nonsense. On 50 and 60, together with the new charge system on Infuriate, we get burst windows with 3 or 4 IB/FC and up to 2 full combos. This is very similar to ARR/HW rotation, bit more polished without Infuriate CDs getting wasted, on non-stop usage.
At 70 - Inner Release - I tried to create a burst window that can always fit 1 combo, 6 FC/Dez (4 FC/Dez + 2 IC/CC at lvl 80) plus Upheaval, and at least 1 Onslaught IN EVERY SITUATION - regardless of preparation, eliminating downtime as an issue - while at the same time must not exceed the numbers of Gauge GCD spenders (so you can never have more than 6).
The result is the 7 maximum stacks and an ability that reduces the cost by a fixed amount (-2) - making Upheaval and Onslaught basicly free - while gaining a full stack (of 5 units). This makes you want to spend any excessive stacks before the burst window - while still remain as more complex execution than 'simply press this button 5 times (and oh yeah, there are two more to press) and that's it'. Infuriate still remains as a part of the burst just like pre-lvl 70, and tho you press the same button a few more times than before, yet the design, complexity and feeling from the previous ones doesn't fade away.
For more insight, look at the rotation mapping down below.
Of course this has its costs. I removed the knockback-immunity simply because you don't need it with 2 free Onslaughts available - the stun, slow, and sleep resistance still remains tho.

The changes above also affect the new abilities:
Because the numbers of burst windows changed from every 60s/90s to simply every 90s, Nascent Flash wouldn't be as effective as before. Thus I changed the way NF healing works, giving it a fixed cure potency - which in return also increases the healing OUTSIDE of burst windows, that again makes the ability more flexible without relying on your dps rotation.
Now, some of you might think that still doesn't even out the healing power of NF + IC/FC. That is actually where the next change comes in: Beast Gauge spender gain a healing buff!
I thought about bringing back the old IB with life leech, but balancing the combined HP gained by every single skill with NF healing power. So you are more tanky on lower levels while you remain as the healing beast on 80 that you are right now.

Shared Links:

Job Action, Trait, and Gauge changes:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LzA...ew?usp=sharing

Rotation Mapping:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yA9...ew?usp=sharing