not really a suggestion so much as it is a question.
why does summoner have psycick-- at its current state its not worth its own cast timer...so why do Summoners have it? and can it be used at all in current times?
Why does SMN have Physick?
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12-08-2019, 02:18 PMP0W3RK1DWhy does SMN have Physick?
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12-08-2019, 03:47 PMMitsukiKimura
SMN comes from arcanist which has Physick in it's kit before job changing. As far as current times, no you won't ever be using it since it's a very weak heal and you'll be leaving that to the healer as you DPS.
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12-09-2019, 01:20 AMP0W3RK1D
sooo....summoner has a useless heal still on his hotbar that SE didnt bother to remove or upgrade?
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12-09-2019, 01:23 AMSiete
Idk man.
Why does SMN still use dots? -
12-09-2019, 01:45 AMEnkidoh
As others stated, it's because it's an ACN ability, and the reason ACN has it was to give a healing spell available for players that start in Limsa (given there is no dedicated healing class available in Limsa from the get-go until you unlock SCH).
Funnily enough, back in the old days when the cross-class system was still a thing, I remember going as SMN into Brayflox normal and having to take over healing because the actual healer for the party (a WHM) was still new and learning the ropes, and wasn't up to the task (she kept dying at the drop of a hat).
Needless to say we made it through that run somehow with me having to not only DPSing with my Egis/debuffing as normal but also spamming Physick over and over just to keep the tank alive as the WHM kept getting herself killed. I ended up with 3 commendations out of that. :D
Sadly that sort of thing is no longer possible with the loss of the cross-class system and heal potency now specifically controlled by MND boosts that SMN lacks. -
12-09-2019, 06:40 AMConnor
I never really understood this; they made such a big deal out of Scholar getting skills that were meant for Summoner like Miasma and Bane, but don’t care at all if it happens to Summoner.
Like if they don’t want to turn Physick into an ability Summoner can actually use surely they could at least make it scale off int or weapon damage or something. Though I guess that would invalidate Red Mage, and if they made potency adjustments to Physick for Summoner it would affect Scholar too.
It’s a weird situation but I’d like if they tried to find a solution to either make the ability useful for Summoner or make it something else. It always disappoints me seeing abilities with literally no use at all. Like even at lower levels, between Potions and Earthen Shield I cant imagine Arcanist are going around spamming Physick just to stay alive anyway -
12-09-2019, 07:07 AMCrushnight
The whole ACN thing falls flat when you look at Energy Drain 2 very different function of the exact same skill name, 1 for smn restores stacks + dmg and the other for Sch requires a stack and restores mp/hp with dmg.
At this point either oversight to never change it or laziness take your pick. -
12-09-2019, 08:34 AMKuroka
I dont get why my redmages heal is stronger though, just let smn scale the same way and its fine, its not like that 10-12k heal would be a game changer...
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12-09-2019, 02:04 PMSilverquickQuote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
This... totally...
That is exactly the way it used to work in old ARR. -
12-09-2019, 04:01 PMOneTrueMiqote
They did mention they want to split the two jobs completely. It just hasn't happened yet.
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12-10-2019, 04:35 AMRaikai
I suppose it's for pre-30 Arcanists to have any semblance of healing for when they q as heals?
I'm not sure how it works nowadays though... They really have to spend 30 levels with just 1 healing spell? -
12-10-2019, 06:54 AMEsmoire
In general I would not be surprised if in 6.0 the arcanist branches are changed so SCH or SMN just becomes its own job or something that you can pick up without any requirements, and if Arcanist is still around they will hone it down more on healer or DPS. Every patch they move them further and further apart as it is so they may be content to just allow this anomaly to remain. New expansions are a great chance to make sweeping changes.
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12-10-2019, 07:23 AMEloahQuote:
Originally Posted by OneTrueMiqote
The issue with this is that the jobs are completely separate now. They are only linked through the skill Resurrection, which while odd is good, since that skill doesnt need to change between the two jobs. As people have mentioned, Energy Drain is different between the two, Ruin II as well. Even Aetherpact is different but that was different from the onset, since it came post 2.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esmoire
The reason Physick is still lackluster on SMN is unknown. As it was said before it feels more like an oversite than anything else. Both SMN and SCH do need a bit of "work" ease the transition that is being created now, since they are completely split, but there are no issues any more regarding changing one changes the other. Player wise, they are split. But most likely codingwise they are still linked to avoid the hardships that would come about with a complete split. -
12-10-2019, 08:56 AMdinnertime
I doubt they will separate Summoner and Scholar because that is the selling point of Arcanist. Anyway, there is no need to separate them because Scholar has their own versions of Arcanist skills, like how Scholar's Physick is labeled SCH and not ACN. Like Eloah said, the only thing both jobs share from Arcanist is Resurrection.
SMN still keeping Physick is a mystery, but honestly this is just another case of the devs leaving behind questionable or redundant skills/abilities, like Fluid Aura. -
12-10-2019, 01:05 PMMyon88
It's honestly strange, and a little sad. They bothered to downgrade (and yeah, it's a complete downgrade) summoner's aetherflow to energy drain all for the sake of differentiating smn and sch. So they can clearly expend the effort if they want to, even though smn got the short end of the stick there. But when it comes to physick which is as close to literally useless as a skill gets now, they leave it be.
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12-10-2019, 01:56 PMRarrum
Physick is very still useful pre-50-ish when doing Palace of the Dead solo runs on SMN.
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12-10-2019, 04:05 PMRyaz
I'm just surprised they haven't put in a trait for SMN that makes Physick scale of intelligence instead of mind. Would be an easy fix, you'd think.
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12-10-2019, 05:53 PMpurgatoriI'm glad they haven't yet. I wanted to level a healer so I could do the role quests in ShB and having SMN along as a bonus was really nice, especially given that I came to really enjoy how the job plays, and I think it will in fact end up replacing RDM as my magical DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTrueMiqote
That aside, yes, physick is bafflingly useless. I wasn't entirely convinced of this before picking up the job; I thought, "it has to have some utility, right?" But no. It's just there. -
12-10-2019, 10:26 PMtdbThis seems unlikely to be the reason, since Ul-dah has no dedicated healer class at all. PLD and RDM have some healing capability now, but neither did in the 2.x days. PLD got Clemency in 3.0 and RDM didn't even exist until 4.0. And of course now we have a total of six major cities, four of which serve as starting points for various classes, but there are only three healer classes. Gridania didn't have a tank either until GNB was introduced in 5.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
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12-11-2019, 01:23 PMShurrikhanJust as all damage skills on healers were originally useless without Cleric Stance. Yet they changed those to work off Mind, just as Vercure works off Intelligence. So why not do the same for Physick?Quote:
Originally Posted by purgatori
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12-12-2019, 06:41 AMMerlinCross
There's a lot of abilities that are just "Why do you exist".
Semi related..., does Second Wind scale off anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
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12-12-2019, 08:24 AMBloodRubyXIIYes.Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlinCross
//10char -
12-12-2019, 11:55 AMdinnertimePersonally, I think SMN doesn't need an INT-based Physick. That would just basically make RDM more irrelevant than it is now with it being the same as Vercure but slightly better. Not only that, SMN has a 30% shield that is more frequent than a BLM's Manaward at the cost of their Egi's damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
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12-12-2019, 06:58 PMShurrikhanAttack Power, but there may be a hidden level-based scalar, kind of like how Souleater and Steel Cyclone's %lifesteal diminished with increased levels in SB, so that it scarcely healed for more at 69 than 60.Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlinCross
That or my memories are merely tarnished by having played Monk back when job design amounted to more than just trimming as many skills and traits as possible, allowing Monk a then-hefty 800-potency self-heal. -
12-13-2019, 01:23 AMSilverquickThis is actually a long story, and all of it has to do with SCH not necessarily SMN.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryaz
First of all, understand that SCH does not really have any direct heals other than Physick. The SCH's heals are all shields/pre-heals like Adlo/Galvanize and Succor. Its got a couple of direct heals that are stronger... but they're Aetherflow abilities so limited use. Their version of Egi Assaults are things like Regen.
SCH isn't really a strong healer, its a preventer. So boosting SMN Physick would in essence give him similar healing power to an SCH.
Why is this important...
Well back in the day, SCH used to have similar DoT power to the SMN. They used to have both Bio and Miasma... and Bane. They nerfed it and removed it to where the SCH only has Bio now and no Bane to spread it to other targets. Which I thought was stupid, SCH is not as strong of a healer, meaning they had to focus more attention on Healing than WHM.... and previously you'd play SCH by throwing out your DoTs and then Bane it out to other targets... then just focus your attention on healing.
Which of course was the point. SCH was supposed to be like that precisely because its healing ability was not as good as WHM.
So this also swings both ways. SCH was stripped of its DoT abilities... and SMN just left with a healing spell that is completely worthless post 50th. This was their attempt to "split" the two. It was in my opinion dumb and hurt SCH a lot more than SMN. -
12-13-2019, 02:54 AMPayadopa
Honestly, SMN needs a rework. I'm close to cap and I can't do it anymore... Bahamut and Phoenix are awesome but the three pets and the general rotation... boy, do they suck. /sigh
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12-13-2019, 06:46 AMdinnertimeThey could literally still have kept SCH having more than one DoT if they labeled it as a SCH skill instead, it's just they chose not to so they can homogenize the healer role.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
Same for ACN/SMN. They could've removed Physick on ACN because SCH has their own version of Physick, but for unknown reasons they didn't. -
12-13-2019, 07:21 AMCrushnightSee that doesn't work since patch 5.05 there has been 2 different Energy Drains functionally different yet named the exact same, Physick could've had something similar happen, they could've removed it since functionally useless(even to sch it is the last resort gcd heal), could've made it scale of int instead of mind they have the power to have two skills named the same to do that, could've given Physick on acn/smn a different effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
They just haven't done anything it oversight, laziness or so low priority (but then how did it survive 2 expansions of culling and yes ik fluid aura is still a thing) -
12-13-2019, 07:41 AMSilverquick
It is functionally useless past 50th. But remember this game has gone on a lot longer than just patch 5.05. And I hardly think the primary concern of the Devs is Physick for Summoners at this point.
But then again.... Its not useless if you're below 50th, and lets face it, you spend a LOT of time in ARR before you ever touch an expansion, plus there are a lot of MSQ instances including Job related ones where this was already calculated into the difficulty level under the assumption you can use it.
That initial campaign with after adventures is loooooonnng.
It also used to be something you could spam on your Pet too back when as Titan Egi (and the others) used to have Health. They don't anymore.
Now I don't presume to know everything there ever was to know about SCH, for me that was only a class unlock just to learn what it was about, after all its free to Summoner Players, and that was my Main, Nowadays I swap between SMN and RDM depending on what I want to use.
I never played SCH seriously even back then. But doing so helped me to see how bad SCH players got screwed. -
12-13-2019, 10:26 AMEnkidohIt is though, although Ul'dah indeed doesn't have a healer class either at the start, the expectation was that an Ul'dah player would actually head off on foot/chocobo to Gridania and unlock CNJ for a healer (or at least, under the old cross-class system, to get healing spells to cross-class). Where as this was not possible with Limsa, as the ferry to Vesper Bay was actually not available until you progressed in the main story past level 15 and gained your airship pass, which unlocked the ferry at the same time, there was thus more of a need to have a 'healer' in Limsa, or a class with healing spells that could be cross-classed on another class (this is the same reason there is no 'tank' classes in Gridania either, a Gridanian player was meant to head to Ul'dah and unlock GLA).Quote:
Originally Posted by tdb
Of course they could have also just made the ferry available right at the start thus allowing freedom at unlocking all classes, but SE seemed to be pretty set on granting new content to players at the start of the game gradually. -
12-13-2019, 10:41 AMpurgatoriI approach the classes/jobs from a lore-first perspective (which isn't to say that balance isn't important, but I'll leave the technical stuff to the players who excel in that area), so this attempt to split SCH and SMN doesn't sit well with me at all. Having only picked up these jobs quite recently, I don't have the history with how they have evolved/devolved over successive patches the way you guys do, I only know that I was shocked when I unlocked the jobs and found that so little ACN kit carried over into SCH, and that things like Energy drain worked completely differently between the two, etc. Then I discovered that there used to be a lot more carryover between the two, and thought "well, that makes a lot more sense than what we have now."Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
I particularly 'miss' the opportunity to cast more DoTs as a SCH, because this would make thematic sense given the origins of SCH, and give you something to do other than constantly casting ruin spam. Conversely, I'd either like to see Physick scale off INT, or perhaps be replaced with Adloquium to make up for the poor healing potency (though I quite like Titan's shield, so this would not be my preferred option). -
12-13-2019, 03:44 PMdinnertimeThat would make no sense because Adloquium is a Scholar-exclusive ability. Also the last thing we need is people complaining that Summoner is getting too many defensive tools which will persuade the devs nerf, or worse rework the job again.Quote:
Originally Posted by purgatori
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12-14-2019, 08:03 AMDeceptus
It's been crap since 2.0 and should have been gone or have a trait that allows it to scale off of Int a long time ago.
OR
Back when you could heal your own pet via Sustain, they could have had a trait that turned Physic into sustain. But small, indie company etc. -
12-14-2019, 08:27 AMBillythepancake
Always loved the excuse of "because it comes from ACN so SMN HAS to get it." What about all the ACN moves SCH misses out on? Seems kind of hypocritical that SMN HAS to have all of ACN's moves, including 1 that is literally useless, but the only thing SCH gets is a heal that is overshadowed as soon as they get adlo and lustrate, a raise, and bio.
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12-14-2019, 04:50 PMMerryl
Once upon a time you could actually strike a balance between damage and healing. Buffs could be made to crit heal for almost 6000, while still being useful in the dps department. Summoner was good then. And then stormblood happened, and everyone became a cookie cutter and builds that took priceless calculations and melding of materia was killed off by role actions. RIP Summoner
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12-14-2019, 10:12 PMMOZZYSTARSoooo... Scholar forgets useful skills from ACN, but Summoner remembers useless skills from ACN?Quote:
Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura
Which one was supposed to be scholarly again??? /thinks