Why Do Vieras Have The Same Hempen Design As Hyur Midlanders?

I figured I should ask, because it’s been on my mind for awhile now. Is it because:

A.) Square Enix finally plans on making Hempen Pantalettes and Hempen Camise design styles race unlocked, so any race can wear any sort of design?

or

B.) They were lazy when developing Viera, and chose not to give them a unique Hempen design.

Wondered that myself. Wish I could say I had any confidence at all that it was A and not B.

It's C: They already have underwear, their racial outfit. No need for 2. :p

C. They had time management issues with the development of both Viera and Hrothgar and took shortcuts wherever possible to meet the expansion deadline. I still remember the last Fanfest where the outright stated that the Hrothgar werent media ready till right before the event, and if you look at the Viera reveal all the models are using the same face. This is only a handful of months before launch, mind.

I think they just flat out bit off more than they could chew. But instead of delaying the races till they were better realized they rushed them out to meet a deadline.

they are? I didnt know.

Rushed them, too lazy to "finish" them, don't care about them.

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Originally Posted by Enla

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Yeah this seems like the most likely answer. Which is a huge shame. I love Viera, but not having a unique Hempen set is really the least of the problems they've got imo.

Still holding out hope for unlocked Hempen sets too, though. Got my eye on the Elezen and Roe versions...

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Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

small indie company btw

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Please understand we're lazy.
https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...a97d09d259.jpg
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/imag...male-Viera.png

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Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

small indie company btw

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I hear they need experienced developers if you are interested. They are always talking about how difficult it is to find good people to make the game.

This is likely one of those cases where throwing money wouldn't have done anything without manpower, which they have said they are lacking. And looking for.

The "small indy dev" meme isn't really funny or meme-y, just lame really. Aren't the makers of that crowdfunded space game "indy" and they have what, 250mil raised? That seems even more ridiculous to me than viera not getting a 2nd set of see-through underwear. All indy means is they don't have a separate source (company) of publishing/funding, no?

It better be "A". The Hrothgar have the same underclothes design as Roegadyns.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Rushed them, too lazy to "finish" them, don't care about them.

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Please be a sarcastic post. No one who's played longer than a month could possibly think this.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Please be a sarcastic post. No one who's played longer than a month could possibly think this.

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Don't know why you would think that. It's the truth.

Here's some food for the eyes via hrothgar:

https://i.imgur.com/7DhOmfh.png

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Originally Posted by Gula

Please be a sarcastic post. No one who's played longer than a month could possibly think this.

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Oh ye of little, blind faith.

I dont think they were lazy, morso rushed.

With how much more detailed everything is in ShB and with how much they tweaked i think they way overestimated their workload. I cant say for hrothgar, but going from elezen to viera they were even better modeled and animations felt just as good. Obviously they're not flawless, but it really feels like a case of time constraints and not 'lol lazy i give up no can make good game.'

Still hoping they fix them up, we're only on patch 5.1 so maybe it'll happen eventually...

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Here's some food for the eyes via hrothgar:

[Circlet placement]

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I've been wondering about that since someone posted that image (or one of the same issue) a while ago. I assume it's something to do with the different head shapes they can have? The "Kimahri face" has a flatter shape and I think the circlets might be placed to sit on that.

I assume their programming doesn't let them fine-tune placement to each face and it's just "circlet on Hrothgar sits here". So they have to set it where it will look least-awful on average across the four face shapes.

This might be part of their initial decision to not have them visible.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I've been wondering about that since someone posted that image (or one of the same issue) a while ago. I assume it's something to do with the different head shapes they can have? The "Kimahri face" has a flatter shape and I think the circlets might be placed to sit on that.

I assume their programming doesn't let them fine-tune placement to each face and it's just "circlet on Hrothgar sits here". So they have to set it where it will look least-awful on average across the four face shapes.

This might be part of their initial decision to not have them visible.

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It happens with existing races too so I think you might be onto something. I remember playing when I was an Elezen and Highlander it was often a toss up if certain circlets actually aligned with my character's forehead or not. Most are easily hidden behind bangs but if your character didn't have bangs it became blindingly obvious the item was hovering.

Yeah, that's probably how it is. It's just hilarious to look at.

There's a lot of headpieces that are in need of tweaking, or simply do not work with certain hairstyles due to extreme clipping. It's unfortunately been that way even before Viera and Hrothgar were added to the game, though in-game reports haven't amounted to any changes on that front.

It'd be a huge undertaking, but what we need is the character customisation system to be completely overhauled across the board.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I hear they need experienced developers if you are interested. They are always talking about how difficult it is to find good people to make the game.

This is likely one of those cases where throwing money wouldn't have done anything without manpower, which they have said they are lacking. And looking for.

The "small indy dev" meme isn't really funny or meme-y, just lame really. Aren't the makers of that crowdfunded space game "indy" and they have what, 250mil raised? That seems even more ridiculous to me than viera not getting a 2nd set of see-through underwear. All indy means is they don't have a separate source (company) of publishing/funding, no?

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No wonder why if they closed their search to Japan and dont outsource anything. And yes its funny because they wont reach for workers outside of Japan, this is the very reason why things get slower and slower.

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Originally Posted by Enla

It happens with existing races too so I think you might be onto something. I remember playing when I was an Elezen and Highlander it was often a toss up if certain circlets actually aligned with my character's forehead or not. Most are easily hidden behind bangs but if your character didn't have bangs it became blindingly obvious the item was hovering.

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I realised you can actually test this in character creation with the paladin circlet. (Go through the menus to the "select class" section, set it to display job gear, then backtrack to character customisation and switch through the different faces.) It floats on everyone to varying degrees - it's still not great on the other Hrothgar face but seems to be placed so it sits in front of the forehead horn rather than through it.

Another "why did they do this?" question that pops up sometimes is earring placement on Au Ra - the paladin circlet also adds earrings, so you can use the same method to understand that - they stay in the same spot as you switch between the faces, so you can see how they need to be at the base rather than somewhere more visible.

I had actually thought that they would at least create unique hempen sets for Viera and Hrothgar after a few months or so. And if they aren't able to make unlockable hairstyles available to the new races, that at least new hairstyles would be wearable by Viera...

I hope they still make them at some point. I'm sure it was simply a crush deadline and they didn't have the time to make them for release. There are some really attractive clothes worn by Viera in other games and I hope we get one of them at some point. I will admit i was pretty disappointed with not getting something unique.

TBH I'm fine with it, because at least they didn't copy the weird mess that Highlanders get... Midlander hempen copy is just fine with me in that context.

Would I rather have a copy of Au'Ra or Miqote? Sure.. But, again, it could have been worse..

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Originally Posted by Enla

C. They had time management issues with the development of both Viera and Hrothgar and took shortcuts wherever possible to meet the expansion deadline. I still remember the last Fanfest where the outright stated that the Hrothgar werent media ready till right before the event, and if you look at the Viera reveal all the models are using the same face. This is only a handful of months before launch, mind.

I think they just flat out bit off more than they could chew. But instead of delaying the races till they were better realized they rushed them out to meet a deadline.

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What kind of reasonable argument is this? No, you're mistaken. It's all about laziness.

Sharing the set doesn't bother me, the midlander one is nice. I'd just like to see all the sets open to all races.

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Originally Posted by Enla

C. They had time management issues with the development of both Viera and Hrothgar and took shortcuts wherever possible to meet the expansion deadline. I still remember the last Fanfest where the outright stated that the Hrothgar werent media ready till right before the event, and if you look at the Viera reveal all the models are using the same face. This is only a handful of months before launch, mind.

I think they just flat out bit off more than they could chew. But instead of delaying the races till they were better realized they rushed them out to meet a deadline.

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I totally agree that Viera & Hrothgar were most likely rushed to meet a deadline, but what leaves me scratching my head now is, why are they taking the stance of no longer attempting to bring old hairstyles to Viera, and why are hats seemingly impossible to bring to both Viera and Hrothgar?

With Viera at least, they originally said that they would bring some hairstyles over, but not all. Now we've been told they won't add any old styles - custom coifs only. Now that they are past the initial ShB push, why can't they work on adding the old to Viera? I'm assuming their head is a unique mesh, so perhaps it would take time for them to implement - but this is the game dev we're talking about. It's very within their power to do this. Even if it wasn't an all-at-once thing, they could release them in batches if the future projects are keeping them occupied for the most part. But to flat out say, No, we're just not going to do that? I really struggle with that decision.

And hats! Hats complete so many looks and styles. As they say, glamour is the ultimate endgame, and Viera/Hroth are at a rather hefty disadvantage there. :P Again, I'm sure fitting hats to both races would be quite the undertaking, but this is just something you do and account for as a dev.

When it came to Viera / Hroth, I had been very optimistic originally with the updates that would come after things settled down from ShB, but I've lost most of that now. I love Viera and Hroth, but they truly feel unfinished to me and it bums me out.

edit:
Totally forgot about the topic at hand, undies! That's another thing too! Unless this was a sign that they are going to be unlocking hempen sets in the near future (my dream!), this is just another design choice that adds to the overall feeling of being rushed/incomplete races. ._.

At this rate, I wonder if it was actually better to wait 1 more expansion for a fully complete product - not even meaning the missing genders, but more "default" stuff like hat compatibility and the commonly shared hairstyles.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I hear they need experienced developers if you are interested. They are always talking about how difficult it is to find good people to make the game.

This is likely one of those cases where throwing money wouldn't have done anything without manpower, which they have said they are lacking. And looking for.

The "small indy dev" meme isn't really funny or meme-y, just lame really. Aren't the makers of that crowdfunded space game "indy" and they have what, 250mil raised? That seems even more ridiculous to me than viera not getting a 2nd set of see-through underwear. All indy means is they don't have a separate source (company) of publishing/funding, no?

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It stings because everyone should know how SE went from the brink of collapse to the multi billion dollar/yen company they are today.

Lazy? I don't think so. Remember the art team took time out from their break and managed to squeeze in 500 headgears for hrothgar and viera. Bit off more than they could chew though? Definitely, i think yoshida got too greedy wanting hrothgar and viera in and the dev didn't have time to accomodate 2 different races rather than 1 race M/F.

Thanks for the responses, everyone. Makes more sense now I suppose, even though half say it’s due to laziness and the other half says it’s due to crunched time. Personally, it’s disappointing and slightly hypocritical. Square Enix is so big on racial identity, but decide to give Viera and Hrothgar some hand me down outfits from another race. I was actually looking forward to Viera’s hempen design too.

I dunno. I mean, I hope they plan on making Hempen designs wearable for all Races, but I can’t help but feel some level of hypocrisy from Square. It’s like, you aren’t cool with Hempen designs being accessible to all races? Fine with me. But then you go and make these new races have hand-me-downs? If you plan on making them race unlocked, I can see the logic. If not, I just think it’s a little hypocritical.

I know Square has good intentions, but as someone who loves glamour, it is very disappointing to see.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

No wonder why if they closed their search to Japan and dont outsource anything. And yes its funny because they wont reach for workers outside of Japan, this is the very reason why things get slower and slower.

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They actually asked people at the fanfests at least twice that I know of.

"hey, if you are experienced in this area and can speak japanese, PLEASE APPLY! WE NEED PEOPLE"

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Originally Posted by Dalmacus

Definitely, i think yoshida got too greedy wanting hrothgar and viera in and the dev didn't have time to accomodate 2 different races rather than 1 race M/F.

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2 single sex races and 1 dimorphic dual sex race requires the same amount of work. I suspect that it is more a case of the shear amount of sets they needed to fit to the new races.

M Roe, MF Lala, F Miqote, M/F Elezen, M/F Midlanders and M Highlanders were all released with the initial gear sets. Work on new gear sets have been spread over the years since 1.0 was released.

F Roe, M Miqote and F Highlanders required them to fit the 1.X gear in addition to fitting the new 2.0 gear to them at release. 2.0 did not have that many new gear models at release, only the Acolyte, Foestrikers, Cavalry, Infantry, Battlemage and the sexes' "racial" gear sets were new.

M/F Au Ra required the 1.X and 2.X gear to be fitted in addition to the new 3.0 sets for their release.

F Viera and M Hrothgar required them to be fitted with all the 1.X, 2.X 3.X and 4.X sets in addition to adding the new 5.0 gear. This was 2 expansions more than the Au Ra so opting not to fit most of 4 expansions worth of head gear and dropping the undergarment sets saved them a ton of work.

M Viera and F Hrothgar will require them to fit 5 expansions worth of gear if they get added in 6.0.

It is easy to forget that the amount of work that needs to be done to fit gear to a new race has changed a lot since 1.0 and 2.0 released.

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Originally Posted by Nandrolone

A.) Square Enix finally plans on making Hempen Pantalettes and Hempen Camise design styles race unlocked, so any race can wear any sort of design?

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Originally Posted by Luxpheras

Hello again, Eorzeans.

We appreciate your continued feedback on the subject of unlocking the variances in appearance of the Hempen set across all races.

It looks like an overwhelming majority of you are very interested in this! As such, we have forwarded this feedback to the development team. In response, they would like to let you know that they are considering this for a future update! :D

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Luxpheras post is from 23.03.17
I guess that's a no to your question since this was the last response to that matter.

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Originally Posted by Glenfiddich

Luxpheras post is from 23.03.17
I guess that's a no to your question since this was the last response to that matter.

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Not necessarily. SE takes a very long time to implement things like this.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Not necessarily. SE takes a very long time to implement things like this.

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I hope they do not take so much time until Bahamut hits Eorzea again...:rolleyes:

No one likes any of the other styles.

About 73% of the reason to play a Hyur was to be able to use their Hempen Camise... :)

Now at least 2 races get it...

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Originally Posted by Makeda

No one likes any of the other styles.

About 73% of the reason to play a Hyur was to be able to use their Hempen Camise... :)

Now at least 2 races get it...

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And why can’t all races have it? See how this contradicts “racial identity”? If the Hempen outfit is really 73% of the reason people play Hyur, then why do Vieras get special treatment? Seems more logical and fair to have all Hempen designs race unlocked rather than only a few races getting the glamour they want.

My point is, the instant you make a single set of a racial Hempen design accessible to a single race, the “racial identity” arguement is immediately invalid.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

No one likes any of the other styles.

About 73% of the reason to play a Hyur was to be able to use their Hempen Camise... :)

Now at least 2 races get it...

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Doubtful. Miqo'te has a beautiful top, they also get a nice pair of lace boyshorts. The problem with the midlander top are the undyable portions. Completely clashes with certain outfits, dyes. It just generally looks out of place. The pants have the undyable accents, are a glorified napkin, and make your butt look even more flat than it already is.

my theory is time restraints kept them from fully integrating the new races. Hrothgar share a hempen set too

but as is usually the case as they take on more and more projects their time is getting stretched thinner rather than being freed up so viera and hrothgar will likely always be partially complete races