Did Middy have to take a nap in case we asked him awkward questions about Hydaelyn?

I was speculating idly about why we never asked Midgardsormr any questions about the Ascians, and then I was wondering what he might have answered if we had.

Clearly (I think, so maybe not so clearly?) he came to this star after the Terminus event and made his Covenant with Hydaelyn. So how much does he know? Did she tell him the truth or mislead him?

If he was still around, we'd surely be racing to ask him what he knew. Or at least to ask him for his version of events in the hope that he'd allay any doubts we had. But does SE even know what Middy knows? Is his disappearance back into restorative hibernation a plot device to avoid him either ...
A.) knowing the whole time and saying nothing to us. Has he been tempered?
Or
B.) not knowing because Hydaelyn misled him too which would surely have to have consequences once he found out

In other words did SE send him to sleep because dealing with the consequences of whether he did or didn't know were just too enormous for the time frame they are working in? Or because they don't know the answers? Or because the answers don't fit with the conclusion they're working towards?

In my opinion, I am sure Migardsormr knows everything. He probably kept it secret because Hydaelyn asked him to and hydaelyn protected him and the 7 great wryms (his kids). I do not think Midgardsormr or the 7 great wryms can be tempered, Midgard himself is just too powerful,he removed our blessing at one point. Lesser dragons can probably be tempered. Four of the seven great wryms are either dead or imprisoned (by her choice). Two of the seven great wryms are unknown to us, there may be a reason be this, who knows. They probably wanted to spill the beans about hydaelyn/ascians, and i bet the acsians did something with them. That leaves Hraesvelgr, and I am willing to bet he knows everything, this is why he is always hiding, and stays hidden from everyone. There has to be a grander reason as to why he is so secretive.

I am not sure being tempered in this instance is something that can be forestalled by being powerful. Zodiark tempered the unsundered Ascians after all, Hydaelyn could have tempered Midgardsormr without him even knowing about it.

If he was prepared to lie - by omission - about Hydaelyn, does that mean he was tempered? Why else would he lie? Hydaelyn gave him a home, yes, but he doesn't strike me as the type to do her bidding without question unless he has good reason. What might that reason be? Either he was entirely on her side because not telling the WoL was the right thing to do because - what? Or he was tempered.

I don't think the writers had any idea what to do with Middy in this circumstance so they wrote him out. I am also fairly sure that none of the First Brood know any of this. Their sire was asleep under Silvertear pretty much the whole however many millennia. Hraesvelgr stays away from even his own kind because he's still grieving/still angry/still depressed.

If he doesnt know then I wouldn't call that Hydaelyn "misleading" him. His covenant with her was to watch over whatever is under Silvertear (I hope we learn what that is soon) and Hydaelyn telling him "by the way I'm a Primal made to defeat another Primal before reality fragmented" doesnt seem relevant to that.

Like, really, what reason would she even have to tell him? His job never put him into contact with the Ascians as far as we know, so clearly it wasn't related to Zodiark or the Sundering. At that point it's irrelevant information.

The WoL and Scions could have asked him a lot of questions prior to Omega raid, but the writers chose to not let him be involved and eventually made him go to sleep.

Midgardsormr could have told us the truth about Omega and some other revelations, but that would take a way from mysteries that the writers have planned, so they had to write him off somehow. Elidibus could have told us the truth since ARR, but chose to not too as well.

I don't think even Midgardsormr knows the whole truth outside of the war and eventual Sundering, since it looks like he came after Hydaelyn already split the world. He might not even care too much since he's a being from another worlds and he just wanted a safe place for him and his children to live after the rest of his species went extinct.

The problem is that, outside of matters concerning his children, his oath to protect whatever is under Silvertear, or Omega, Midgardsormr doesn't really seem to care about what's going on in the larger world. And even if he knows, he would only have the side that Hydaelyn told him, so he probably wouldn't have the whole story anyway.

His dialogue also implies that he went back to sleep after the Final Steps of Faith, and then uses up his power and goes back to sleep again after Sigmascape, so we never really had a chance to ask him about anything. We can call on his simulated forms as a minion or mount, but those are just constructs of aether unless he chooses to speak; his true body is ruined and immobile. I'm still waiting for a story where someone gets the bright idea to go see if his Eyes are still there....

Midgarsormr definetly knows more then he's telling. The question is just how much. He does know Hydaelyn is getting weaker and he knows that us having the Blessing of Light drains Hydaelyn, and the very reason he blocks it in the first place is because he doesn't want Hydaelyn's power being drained by someone who isn't worthy of it. And then we end up proving to him over the course of Heavensward that we are actually worth it and Middy starts backing us 100%. He's also around for the entire conversation with Tiamat when she tells us about how the Ascians talked her into summoning Bahamut. And he talks to her like he knows exactly what she means by all of that...

Another thing to keep in mind is that Middy is more then likely the equivalent to an Ancient back on his own world. He throws aether around like it's nothing and operates on a huge time-scale which would match up with the idea that then Ancients lived either forever or had very long lives. The ten-year nap for him after the Battle of Silvertear Skies is nothing to him and he's not even really dead. He's just waiting to get enough aether to make a body for himself again, only he keeps getting interrupted by us.

The reason why Middy had to take a nap has nothing to do with him telling us stuff about Hydaelyn. At least, not from a narrative sense. Omega is another crazy powerful being, only... it's a machine created by some other race. Omega is a lot closer to Middy's wight class then ours, which suggest again that throwing around crazy amounts of aether like the Ancients did is the norm on other Planets too. Omega itself can make pocket dimensions and think up a whole host of beings within that pocket dimension from nothing but aether. It's almost like we're the odd Planet out when it comes to aether usage. So the reason Middy goes to sleep is because he saves us from Omega and uses up all of his aether he was using to keep his conscious "near" us as opposed to back at his "main aether body" back at Lake Silvertear. He's now back to regenerating that body until who knows when...

From a lore standpoint, the lore and story team probably didn't want to have to address the issue of if Midgardsormr was Sundered or not (and all the evidence currently points to him not being Sundered). Or how he would react to going to another Shard. As far as we can tell, the 1st Shard has no Midgarsormr-style dragons. That is, alien dragons from another Planet. Trying to address that wrinkle on top of all the crazy Sundering and Rejoining stuff already in Shadowbringers would have been a lot and Midgardsormr himself has... nothing to do with why Hydaelyn and Zoidark are around or why the Terminus happened. So in a lot of ways, he'd be a distraction if he was available.

He also would run the risk of stealing Emet-Selch's thunder right from the get-go. The last thing anyone would want is for Emet-Selch's first cut-scene with the WoL to be ruined by Midgardsormr showing up and giving a whole long speech about how he knows who Emet-Selch is and what the whole backstory of the Ancients and Amarot was because Hydaelyn told him so and given you and the rest of the Scions no reason to listen to Emet-Selch at all. Even just second-guessing Emet-Selch if Midgardsormr didn't know all the particulars would have been bad. Midgardsormr is Team Hydaelyn the entire way because she did him the huge favor of letting his kids live on her Planet. I can't see him ever taking what Emet-Selch said at face value simply because someone Tempered to Zoidark is the one saying it and a huge part of Shadowbrings runs on the WoL and the Scions at least realizing that Emet-Selch is telling them [a]a[/a] truth.

On the whole, dragons in general don't seem to be the types to proactively offer information, or even act at all in cases where they regard something to be someone else's problem. They keep to themselves, and are respectful of others' privacy. Middy had no reason to spill the beans on Hydaelyn, and we never asked, so that's that. Ditto for the Ascians. Now, of course, he's asleep, but I don't necessarily see that as having been done specifically to stop us from asking questions. There were plenty of questions we could have asked him even while he was awake (about the Ascians, mostly), but apparently never thought to do so. If he was still awake now, we'd likely STILL be conveniently not thinking of asking him anything.

It's questionable how much Middy even knows, to be fair. His children are almost as ancient as he is, but even they know so little about the Ascians that Tiamat was completely fooled by one. The Ascians are remarkably adept at keeping to the shadows. As for Hydaelyn, as others have mentioned, what reason would she have to share the details about her origins? The bits important to Middy are that she is very powerful, perhaps as powerful as he, and that she serves as guardian of the world he wanted to settle on. As such, an agreement needed to be struck, and it was.

Speaking of Tiamat ... she's still right there, on the map in Azys Lla. She probably knows at least a few things about the past; and has great reason to want to harm the Ascians.
Hraesvalgr, too, might talk if it was the WoL asking.
Less likely, but still a possibility - Omega probably knows too. Though it's questionable if we know it still exists inside the toy following Alpha.
Once the story moves back to the Source, it's going to be weird if we don't even discuss asking one of them.

Middy took a nap because the events of Sigmascape are technically canon (confirmed by The Twinning). It will be some time before he awakens, but he isn't gone forever. We still have the 2 remaining Wyrms: Vrtra and Azdaja, as well as the explanation of the pact he made with Hydaelyn 10,000 years ago to answer to us. His role is not yet finished, but it may not be until late in the 5.x series that we hear from him or perhaps 6.x.

I think that maybe Midgarsormr was removed (narratively) because as others said, he simply knows too much. I suspect that he has been guarding the bit of Zodiark on the source, and that is also why Eorzea has much more ambient Aether than the rest of Hydealn. But then I'm still of the opinion that Zordiark might not turn out to be as evil as he seems.

Another source of information could be Ramuh if he ever got resummoned. In the pre-fight cutscene, he mentioned Light and Dark not being separate in the beginning.

I don't think the devs forced Middy to take a nap to keep him silent. Even if he knows more than he's telling, Middy is very discrete; acting and speaking only when he feels it is necessary. Otherwise, Middy could be considered a fountain of knowledge from which to draw from, and he serves a much grander purpose than that.

For all we know, Middy is omniscient. His fall at the battle of Silvertear turned out to be his apotheosis. He most certainly isn't tempered, and him and his kin originating from another star likely makes them incapable of such, and there is no evidence of the contrary that I am aware of. If Hydaelyn began making some questionable decisions where Middy felt he would need to intervene, then he might say something.

I have a question about him, how was he able to remove our blessing of light? Exactly how strong is he if he can do that? I mean even an Ascian couldn't.

We don't know exactly. It's worth noting that the Blessing of Light and the Echo seem to be two different things. Middy only blocked the Blessing of Light. He didn't mess around with our Echo in any way. It does seem that whatever Middy did to our Blessing of Light has something to do with the deal he made with Hydaelyn when he first got to our planet.

Both the Echo and the Blessing of Light are some of the biggest mysteries in FFXIV at the moment. We don't really know where either of them come from, only that everyone with the Blessing of Light (Us, Yasalye, Krile, and the WoD) has the Echo to begin with, but that not all people with the Echo have the Blessing of Light. Hopefully we'll learn more about that next patch!

Does Krile have the Blessing, or just the Echo? I don't remember that ever coming up.

Krile has both the Blessing and the Echo. I think she says it when she talks about how she survived the Isle of Val being dunked in the Lifestream.

I don't know the answer to your question, but of the two alternatives you presented, I would bet on her having misled him. That's just how the big H rolls.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Does Krile have the Blessing, or just the Echo? I don't remember that ever coming up.

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She does have both. She states that the Blessing of Light saved her from the Isle of Val being destroyed. Which is in the Word of Mother Quest. She also mentions that everyone who has the echo (non artificial) is given a crystal of light as well from that quest.

Middy would probably know more than the MSQ could handle, but I also think he doesn't know the full story. In some areas, we probably know more about pre sundering events than he would at this point.

Do dragons even know about the shards? I don't think we've seen any remotely intelligent dragonbrood or reference to them related to different shards?

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Originally Posted by Lersayil

Middy would probably know more than the MSQ could handle, but I also think he doesn't know the full story. In some areas, we probably know more about pre sundering events than he would at this point.

Do dragons even know about the shards? I don't think we've seen any remotely intelligent dragonbrood or reference to them related to different shards?

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So far, evidence points to dragons (true dragons, descended from Midgardsormr) only existing on the Source. Whether dragons on the Source KNOW about the other Shards is unclear, but they're so long-lived I'd be surprised if they hadn't learned of it at some point. There's evidence of beings traveling to and from the Shards from the Source - Ascians mostly, but Bismarck may have also made the trip in order to inspire the legends of the Vanu Vanu - so it would be surprising if a dragon never ran into one.

That said, dragons DO mostly keep to themselves, and have shown themselves to be as gullible to the machinations of the Ascians as any of the shorter-lived races. It's entirely possible that they, too, are in the dark regarding the shattered nature of the world. We do know that Midgardsormr had SOME kind of dialogue with Hydaelyn (during which they struck a deal to allow Middy to make his home on Hydaelyn), but whether she shared this tidbit with him is unknown.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

So far, evidence points to dragons (true dragons, descended from Midgardsormr) only existing on the Source. Whether dragons on the Source KNOW about the other Shards is unclear, but they're so long-lived I'd be surprised if they hadn't learned of it at some point. There's evidence of beings traveling to and from the Shards from the Source - Ascians mostly, but Bismarck may have also made the trip in order to inspire the legends of the Vanu Vanu - so it would be surprising if a dragon never ran into one.

That said, dragons DO mostly keep to themselves, and have shown themselves to be as gullible to the machinations of the Ascians as any of the shorter-lived races. It's entirely possible that they, too, are in the dark regarding the shattered nature of the world. We do know that Midgardsormr had SOME kind of dialogue with Hydaelyn (during which they struck a deal to allow Middy to make his home on Hydaelyn), but whether she shared this tidbit with him is unknown.

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I think it was implied by the Ascians (Emet I think?) that true travel between the shards is very rare if existant at all other than them (corporeal travel being completely unheard of), and the method Ascians use has its... faults, thus its unlikely to be used by anyone else. Though its possible they just don't know about others of course.

I must admit I'm foggy about the Vanu Vanu lore... are they also Allagan creations? If not, its possible that Bismarck existed in some form pre-sundering, and like some other tidbits, got passed down as myth post sundering. If they are however, yeah, I guess they would need some outside inspirations regarding Bismarck.

I guess they left the dragon thread open, just in case they need some in the MSQ later. Doubt we wont see the rest of Middys missing children somewhere down the line. A shame Middy went to sleep though, I liked him hanging around, even as an exposition tool...

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

So far, evidence points to dragons (true dragons, descended from Midgardsormr) only existing on the Source. Whether dragons on the Source KNOW about the other Shards is unclear, but they're so long-lived I'd be surprised if they hadn't learned of it at some point. There's evidence of beings traveling to and from the Shards from the Source - Ascians mostly, but Bismarck may have also made the trip in order to inspire the legends of the Vanu Vanu - so it would be surprising if a dragon never ran into one.

That said, dragons DO mostly keep to themselves, and have shown themselves to be as gullible to the machinations of the Ascians as any of the shorter-lived races. It's entirely possible that they, too, are in the dark regarding the shattered nature of the world. We do know that Midgardsormr had SOME kind of dialogue with Hydaelyn (during which they struck a deal to allow Middy to make his home on Hydaelyn), but whether she shared this tidbit with him is unknown.

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Another possibility is that Middy and/or other dragons know full well about the sundering of the star, but are quite content with this being the case. This wouldn't require tempering or anything of the sort, but merely the presence of self-interest, concern for the massive loss of life that would be involved, or some mix of the two. Not being sundered themselves, the dragons enjoy preeminence over the mortal races (Nidhogg believed that the star's native inhabitants were so feeble that only the dragons could conceivably serve as the guardians over the star), but even the 14-times-diluted reflections of the Ancients were able to give the dragons a run for their money in the form of the Allagan empire. Middy et al may nurture a justified fear of being banished were from the star were a new, un-sundered race to arise (if the rejoining did not simply kill the dragons outright to begin with). From that vantage point, it probably makes sense for Middy to go along with Hydaelyn's plans and keep the WoL in the dark.