No Garleans on the first?

I'm a little late to the party no doubt, but I recently got to replay the Ivalice raids and got to thinking why aren't there any Garleans in the first?

As far as I'm aware both the Garleans and the Proto Garlean race had the third eye and should have existed since the Sundering, so I find it very suspicious that there's not a single one left alive in Norvrandt yet alone any mention of such a race.

Is this just something I've missed completely? A big coincidence? Or maybe a future plot revelation given how much of Garlemalds history we know is a fabrication?

I can only imagine that if the Garlean race does not have an equivalent on other shards, then that may infer that they are either extinct or were created by the Ascians to have a slave race to further their agenda of creating discord.

Given the geographical location of Garlemauld, it is plausible if there was a Garlean equivalent race then they got wiped out in the flood of light.

If there were, we may never know because 90% of the First was destroyed completely, including the region they are supposed to be from. We don’t see Lupin, Namazu, Sylphs, Kojin, Vanu, Vath, or Qiqirn either. Doesn’t mean they only existed on the Source.

The only races that we know should only be on the Source are the Ixal, Ananta, and dragons.

It could be that either they were killed by the Flood, or that they came into existence on the Source post-sundering and so wouldn't be on any of the Shards. As of now there's no way to know which case it is.

A point of note (Spoiler from Shadowbringers):

The Garlean Empire was of Ascian construction, essentially AFTER the shattering into the various shards, so they may have only placed them on the Source, as that's the one shard that will have constant conflict during the re-joining of the rest.


Just my 2c.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JWag12787

A point of note (Spoiler from Shadowbringers)

---

Spoiler /10char

The pure-blooded Garlean people existed before the Empire and go all the way back to at least Goug, which was where they lived before moving to Ilsabard. Just because the Empire was created by the Ascians doesn’t necessarily mean the people were too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Spoiler /10char

The pure-blooded Garlean people existed before the Empire and go all the way back to at least Goug, which was where they lived before moving to Ilsabard. Just because the Empire was created by the Ascians doesn’t necessarily mean the people were too.

---

Isn't Goug still after the original sundering? It's still my understanding that all these events still occurred as part of the events on the Source, and not necessarily in every other shard.

/seriouslytencharacters?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JWag12787

snip.

---

Yeah, but what I was trying to get at was that the people that populate a country aren't tied to the country and didn't pop into existence when the country came to be and may or may not have existed prior to the Sundering.

I'm not convinced that their absence necessarily means anything other than the fact that their counterparts on the First were simply lost to the Flood. The inability to manipulate aether is a huge disadvantage and without a nudge from the Ascians they likely never committed to technological advancements to any significant degree. It strikes me as likely that they simply died off. Most to the initial Flood and any who happened to be in Norvrandt at the time were likely picked off by Sin Eaters.

It's a slim possibility that Garleans are a unique race in regards to the Source, though I'd rather not have every aspect of their society and being somehow tied to being the result of an Ascian or Allagan scheme. We already know they have ancestors in the form of the inhabitants of Goug. Having their ancestors be aliens in the same vein as Midgardsormr and his brood would intrigue me more than the Garleans being a manufactured slave race.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

The only races that we know should only be on the Source are the Ixal, Ananta, and dragons.

---

Don't forget tonberries. Were created during the War of the Magi.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kisshu

Don't forget tonberries. Were created during the War of the Magi.

---

...do we count tonberries as a race though? Seeing how they're essintially lalafell transformed into tonberries by the curse/disease - specially considering that we have people working on finding a remedy for it to reverse the process. Most tonberries are also asleep, so at least I'm having a hard time to consider them a real race, which to me would imply that they're more or less content with being tonberries and are building a society etc. - but thats not what they're doing, they're working on curing the tonberry-disease to become lalafells again.
And on that note: the same curse or disease could exist on other Shards. The tonberries arent in the same category as the chimeras the Allags created - thinking about it, they seem closer to Sin-Eaters in the sense that the body of a healthy lalafell-being is transformed into something else.

The thing about Tonberries is that they were created by a magic plague that came from a voidsent and named after a creature of myth they resembled, also presumably a voidsent. What the tonberry disease is doing is turning its victims into something that looks (and perhaps acts) like the voidsent original tonberries from the same realm as the disease creator. We could, and I hope someday will, still see original tonberries somewhere or other, even on the First, since voidsent can pop up anywhere, anyshard.

One possible thought:
Considering that Emet-Selch claimed to also be behind the Ronkan Empire, it's not out of the question that the ancient Ronkans were the First's Garlean-equivalents, who died out (naturally?) a few thousand years back. Their constructs even kinda look like stone-age magitek.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jennah

Considering that Emet-Selch claimed to also be behind the Ronkan Empire...

---

Did he? I thought it was only Allag that he mentioned having past involvement in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Did he? I thought it was only Allag that he mentioned having past involvement in.

---

I don't remember he specifically stating he had a hand in Ronka's founding, only that he boasted to the Warrior of Light and the Archons about being behind the formation of "Garlemald, Allag and a half dozen other nations with imperial ambitions besides" when he first made himself known to them in the scene in the Crystarium.

It's unclear if Ronka was his handiwork, as by all intents and purposes from what we know of it they were not malevolent like Allag and Garlemald are, although there is that mural recording the destruction of Amaurot and the Sundering within a Ronka structure (Qitana Ravel), which seems a little too convenient for my liking (despite Emet actually seeming surprised to find such a mural there).

But it does fit his MO either way.

I think when he said that he was talking about in the Source. Each of the shards had their own ascian assigned to it when it was time to rejoin so I don’t think they’d really waste their time on a shard when it’s not going to be rejoined for another 5000 years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jennah

One possible thought:
Considering that Emet-Selch claimed to also be behind the Ronkan Empire, it's not out of the question that the ancient Ronkans were the First's Garlean-equivalents, who died out (naturally?) a few thousand years back. Their constructs even kinda look like stone-age magitek.

---

I actually figured the Ronkan were a pre-Omega Allagan equivalent. Those cube enemies are basically rocky ADS units, for example. We know the Allagan used to work a whole lot more with stone based on their ruins, it was only after they discovered Omega and aetherochemical research exploded that they adopted the more dull metal aesthetic more associated with them these days, since the First had no Omega, it stands to reason they'd never go down that technological route. They'd stick with the magical stoneworks.

It's also worth noting that the Ronkan Empire seemed to have been fairly benevolent. At least, the game hasn't gone to any lengths to describe them as warlike or expansionistic. Voeburt, too, seemed to keep to itself. If the Ascians had their fingers in creating these places to sow chaos, the efforts seem halfhearted at best.

The Ascians' MO on the Shards seems to be different from theirs on the Source. On the Source, it's CHAOS, FOREVERMORE!!! And once there's enough Chaos, they work on flooding one of the Shards with an element. What, exactly, they do to cause this flooding, is unclear. We're getting hints of how they did it on the First (manipulation of the Warriors of Light, use of Eden, etc), but Light isn't exactly an element. Whatever they do to get the ball rolling on a Shard, it may not require the cooperation of a powerful empire as is often the case on the Source. And without that need, they likely just let kingdoms rise and fall on their own. (Voeburt, of course, was an exception, given that it factored into the manipulation of the Warriors of Light.)

I lean towards Garleans being aliens unique to The Source or a post Sundering race unique to the planet that cannot manipulate aether because they are not tied to the planet as it originally had been. They could also be genetically engineered by the Ascians to eventually be suitable host bodies for the Ancients upon the revival of their souls, though that's quite a stretch on my part.

There's a lot to answer and speculate on regarding Garleans, because they're shown to have wildly fantastic technology, swords capable of summoning tigers/performing aetherial geometry, dreadnaughts capable of killing primals, and basically anything the plot needs them to do. Most recently with the Ruby Weapon they did something really crazy, and the hint at how they did it means they've gotten a big tech boost from the spaceship that is The Ragnarok.

Of course, it's easy to say they were wiped away in The Flood of Light, but we can't tie that to a geographical location on The Source, because where races are/were differs shard to shard. Like how so many Au Ra are in Norvrandt. How the Lalafell are in what I'd consider Vylbrand(Kholusia). I think I could speculate about Garleans all day. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

I lean towards Garleans being aliens unique to The Source or a post Sundering race unique to the planet that cannot manipulate aether because they are not tied to the planet as it originally had been. They could also be genetically engineered by the Ascians to eventually be suitable host bodies for the Ancients upon the revival of their souls, though that's quite a stretch on my part.

There's a lot to answer and speculate on regarding Garleans, because they're shown to have wildly fantastic technology, swords capable of summoning tigers/performing aetherial geometry, dreadnaughts capable of killing primals, and basically anything the plot needs them to do. Most recently with the Ruby Weapon they did something really crazy, and the hint at how they did it means they've gotten a big tech boost from the spaceship that is The Ragnarok.

Of course, it's easy to say they were wiped away in The Flood of Light, but we can't tie that to a geographical location on The Source, because where races are/were differs shard to shard. Like how so many Au Ra are in Norvrandt. How the Lalafell are in what I'd consider Vylbrand(Kholusia). I think I could speculate about Garleans all day. :)

---

I tend to lean away from the notion that they're aliens, for two main reasons. First off, they look very human. While this is a standard trope in live-action Sci-fi shows (largely because it's a LOT CHEAPER to put pointy ears on a human actor and call them an alien than it is to make a TRULY alien alien), it seems pretty hokey for two different planets to wind up producing essentially identical species. The second reason is not only are they essentially identical, but they're even cross-fertile with the natives (Arenvald being one such result). THAT requires a ludicrous amount of handwavium.

I do think they could be unique to the source. Perhaps side effects from one of the Calamities, led to their unique traits, or maybe they were the results of Allagan experimentation.

As for the amazing technology, take that with a grain of salt. There's evidence that the Ascians have been helping them in this regard (just as they did the Allagans) - and unlike most races on the Source, they have the MOTIVE to explore amazing technology, since they need it to stand on equal (or even superior) footing with the magic-using races. I mean, a non-Garlean COULD put the research into making a laser cannon, but why bother when you can just huck a fireball?

Anyway, unique to the source, or one of the many unlucky races wiped out by not being in Norvrandt at the time of the Flood - it could go either way.

One thing due to recent revelations

Theories:
That Hydaelyn's sundering may have been intentional on depriving one group of their ability to use aether. It may not be malicious? It may have been part of the "suffering" not just talking about our mortality. Have there any Garleans with echo? As I've seen it/remember it - anyone who had Echo was labeled a beastman. This might be a great setup of the significance of the Garlean Empire if there's a deeper correlation.

Especially since people were upset that the empire wasn't as much of a focus and that the stories only seem a bit in tandem with Zenos running as the headliner as an "agent of Chaos" so to speak

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Spoiler /10char

The pure-blooded Garlean people existed before the Empire and go all the way back to at least Goug, which was where they lived before moving to Ilsabard. Just because the Empire was created by the Ascians doesn’t necessarily mean the people were too.

---

We have one example of ancient Goug "human" that appears in the game.

Mustadio in his "human" form, doesn't have the 3rd eye. So that had to have come about after Ultima was sealed away.

A Garlean race may or may not have happened. Garlean history is them fleeing and isolating themselves from the other races because they were majorly discriminated against and persecuted for being non-magical. That kind of history could very well have not happened in the First. The First may have caused them to go extinct, or turned them magical, well-before the Flood. Hell, non-magical race of people may not have existed on the first to begin with. Is there even a single Hrothgar on the Source? I've only seen one Viera on the Source, and that was Fran.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

A Garlean race may or may not have happened. Garlean history is them fleeing and isolating themselves from the other races because they were majorly discriminated against and persecuted for being non-magical. That kind of history could very well have not happened in the First. The First may have caused them to go extinct, or turned them magical, well-before the Flood. Hell, non-magical race of people may not have existed on the first to begin with. Is there even a single Hrothgar on the Source? I've only seen one Viera on the Source, and that was Fran.

---

The Gunbreaker Job NPC

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightsword

The Gunbreaker Job NPC

---

Also in that quest line is another Hrothgar.

On another note, the Hrothgar homeland of Bozja is to play a major part in the story of the lvl 80 relic questline. So we will definitely see more Hrithgar soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightsword

We have one example of ancient Goug "human" that appears in the game.

Mustadio in his "human" form, doesn't have the 3rd eye. So that had to have come about after Ultima was sealed away.

---

Practically speaking, I don't believe a character that's on screen for 5 seconds would have warranted the development team to create a unique head for that character just to justify the lore. Also, it's already stated in-game that the people of Goug didn't have magic either. Why would the eye suddenly appear in the bloodline between Goug and now yet the limitations associated with it pre-existed Goug? It's more likely with said character that the developers were lazy/didn't care

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Practically speaking, I don't believe a character that's on screen for 5 seconds would have warranted the development team to create a unique head for that character just to justify the lore. Also, it's already stated in-game that the people of Goug didn't have magic either. Why would the eye suddenly appear in the bloodline between Goug and now yet the limitations associated with it pre-existed Goug? It's more likely with said character that the developers were lazy/didn't care

---

The Lexentales are full blooded Garleans, yet their ancestors were not a part of the Goug race from that time frame meaning the surviving one must have went into hiding with them and if they could pass as a Goug that means the 3rd eye would have been an augmentation either given to the Ancestor or their child. Which would mean not every member of the Goug had the 3rd eye and only part of them did and eventually the non-3rd eye members of the race were bred out. Also where in the game did it state the Goug didn't have magic since many of the creations employ it, specifically Time Magic and Math Magic.

It's unclear as to whether there simply were no Garleans on the First, or they were wiped out in the Flood. We have no evidence either way.

If we assume they did exist, with the same limitation as their Source counterparts, their holdings would likely have been small. Without Solus (Emet-Selch) introducing them to / weaponizing the ceruleum engine, the Garleans would likely still be limited to their small corner of northeastern Ilsabard given they settled there several hundred years ago and to our knowledge did not expand very far if at all. Hell, between the apparent lack of Ascian meddling and the First's accelerated time compared to the Source, any First equivalent Garleans may have naturally died out.

/shrug

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightsword

The Lexentales are full blooded Garleans, yet their ancestors were not a part of the Goug race from that time frame meaning the surviving one must have went into hiding with them and if they could pass as a Goug that means the 3rd eye would have been an augmentation either given to the Ancestor or their child. Which would mean not every member of the Goug had the 3rd eye and only part of them did and eventually the non-3rd eye members of the race were bred out. Also where in the game did it state the Goug didn't have magic since many of the creations employ it, specifically Time Magic and Math Magic.

---

Considering the third eye disappears after a single generation, I don't think there's non-third eye garleans being bred out. Talk to the node on the Prima Vista and select Jenomis and inquire about Goug and you'll get this conversation:

Quote:

---

Ivalician legend tells of Goug─a city forged from iron and brass, and teeming with fantastical creations, from steam-powered airships to machinoservitors. The people who populated this “modren” metropolis were not unlike us Garleans, in that it was their lack of magical aptitude which spurred them to embrace technology.

---

Quote:

---

I would like to think they traveled north and west to Ilsabard, settling in the land that would one day become Garlemald, yet while traits such as an affinity for machina and a lack of magical prowess align, I must admit, my theory is still mostly conjecture.

---

My headcanon is they just didn't survive the Flood. And if some few did they may have bred into the local population and lost their unique traits anyway over the 100 year gap between the flood and WOL arrival.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jennah

One possible thought:
Considering that Emet-Selch claimed to also be behind the Ronkan Empire, it's not out of the question that the ancient Ronkans were the First's Garlean-equivalents, who died out (naturally?) a few thousand years back. Their constructs even kinda look like stone-age magitek.

---

The first king of Ronka was a hrothgar though

Ascians can possess any body they want, so that's not necessarily a big deterrent.