Modern vs Medieval, what time is it?

So, we do know that the world is essentially in a Simpsons time bubble and the only definite movement is from 1.0 to 2.0. However, recently I've been questioning what exactly are the times.

As in, is Eorzea still primitive or is it safe to assume your average Ul'dah merchant wouldn't balk at a gun, concept of a hot shower and could operate a tomestone of frivolity?

tl;dr incoming

You have job quests that show that formerly exclusive job paths are becoming more and more open to the masses, seasonal events which are very modern and out of the norm (See casually coddling and parading a voidsent for All Saint's Wake) but then snap back to the MSQ. The snazzy leather jackets, jeans and 20th century fashion go poof with turbans, tunics and whatever era you'd call Ala Mhigan fashion.

From mass production of guns back to sticks and rocks.

Interior design is also harder to place since we can't go into every building the way we could in ARR. Sinks are a housing item, toilets are actually coming soon, and other indoor plumbing. Do they have this stuff in Gridania too or are people respecting the elementals with free "fertilizer."

Saying all this to sate my curiosity on the state of the world on the Source. A lot has happened since 2.0, and as the expansions go on, I'd like a more clear understanding on what constitutes as the norm or standard in a world where a chocobo carriage can slowly carry on, and then vroom vroom two Adventurers are doing sick donuts in a Regalia and SDS Fenrir.

Even in our world, the prevalence of technology is never even. Gun-equipped European soldiers won their colonies by beating natives armed with bows and spears. Brits used calvary charges against machine guns and cannons in WW1. Germans and Soviets moved supplies and artillery around Europe via horse-drawn carriages in WW2.

Right now Eorzea varies between medieval to renaissance to industrial era tech depending on where you are. Limsa Lominsa has rifles and cannons and ships powered with ceruleum engines while Gridania still fights with bows and spears. All cities are interconnected by a network of airships and even Ishgard builds their own and has gunpowder-propelled harpoons.

Since the world is in technological upheaval as advancements and Garlean tech leaking out spreads everywhere, it’s not going to be even and we’ll still see dirty medieval peasants in one place while the next town has electrical lighting and airships.

In re: seasonal events

You have to take those with a certain level of detachment. Yeah, they're told as an in-universe narrative but they're really just there to give people things to do in parallel with real-world events and can be slightly more [insert any adjective whatsoever the writers want for that event] than a real quest just for the sake of festivity.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Limsa Lominsa has rifles and cannons and ships powered with ceruleum engines [...]

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To be exact, certain perfectly legal privateer traders have ceruleum engines which they presumably acquired from some Garleans at an excellent price.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Saying all this to sate my curiosity on the state of the world on the Source. A lot has happened since 2.0, and as the expansions go on, I'd like a more clear understanding on what constitutes as the norm or standard in a world where a chocobo carriage can slowly carry on, and then vroom vroom two Adventurers are doing sick donuts in a Regalia and SDS Fenrir.

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It's also worth noting that canonically, the ironworks whipped up the Regalia copy just for you. Kind of like how you're the only WoL, canonically. These things aren't being massed produced.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

It's also worth noting that canonically, the ironworks whipped up the Regalia copy just for you. Kind of like how you're the only WoL, canonically. These things aren't being massed produced.

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SDS Fenrir was manufactured at a time, as it reads, "Manufactured for use by the now-defunct Strife Delivery Service." It does not say how many, but the fact remains, it was something someone could have likely ordered. Meaning there are pieces of outlandish tech accessible by more than just the WoL.

And that's not the point I'm trying to ask, I'm trying to get a grasp on what the world is like as a whole and how it has changed. I spoke to the journalist from Ivalice who's name I forget. Catgirl for one of the city state newspapers. She outright says "moons" when referring to the passage of time. Therefore, there is something and NPCs will acknowledge things.I want to know just how widespread it is overall in regards to technology and the weird stuff Adventurers bring from all over

Really, the world hasn't changed from ARR's opening that much as far as growth and use of new technologies goes. There is some expansion in the use of airships, and the Gold Saucer at least apprently has electric light and a rudimentary form of video projection (which are also available for Free Company use when building airships).

But to the smallfolk, the average man and woman in the street, such technologies would not be readily available to them: most people in Eorzea live a fairly primitive lifestyle roughly analogous to the 1700-1800s era of Earth - most people have to either walk or use a chocobo-hauled carriage or cart for land transport, with their homes lit by little more than oil lamps or candles, and most ships are actually still propelled by sails.

The Garlond Ironworks is gradually trickling in newer technologies, but even then it's usually limited by both scope and limitations of manufacturing - Eorzea completely lacks a modern infrastructure necessary for large-scale manufacturing. things like the Regalia Type-G and the Manacutter are exclusive one-offs made as experiments that are not meant to be mass-produced, hence willing suspension of disbelief is needed here when you see multiple players getting around in Regalias for instance, it doesn't mean they're available to everyone in Eorzea to buy. This is after all common in many FF games.

And there exists a stubborn resistance to the implementation of new technologies, especially when it means upsetting the status quo: Lolorito has stonewalled an expansion of the mining railway in Thanalan for passenger use despite Nanamo's best efforts to open it up to the public, as it means competition for his highly lucrative chocobo transport business (East Aldernard Traiding Company). And Teledji famously prevented even having an aetheryte installed in Vesper Bay simply to snub the Scions of the Seventh Dawn for not taking bribes.

Hells, a nameless npc at the Goldsmith's Guild in Ul'dah mentions an "idea he has for a carriage suspended between two wheels that you pedal with your legs" (which is obviously a bicycle) and his companion outright dismisses the idea as ridiculous (because, after all, why use that when "you have chocobos?"). That's not to say Eorzeans are on a whole ignorant of more advanced technologies - they would know what a gun is for instance, and instant mass-communication is available in the form of linkshells that are basically radiophones (Cid outright mentioned they use radio waves to function). A car though is more of a stretch - the Regalia is outright called a 'carriage' and 'magitek transportation device', so to normal Eorzeans they would only be able to draw on their own limited frame of reference when faced with such a vehicle and would not identify it actually as a car like we would. "Chocoboless carriage" alas does not have the same ring to it. ;)

It doesn't help shed the image held by Garlemald of Eorzea as a technological and cultural backwater inhabited by primitive savages.

Also keep in mind that Eorzea has magic, and that it is much more prevalent then tech is. Why go through all the bother of designing the equivalent of a refrigerator when a bunch of ice crystals will do the job? Magic also has the advantage of being less complicated to a very large degree. It has less moving parts that need to be developed and maintained and has quite literally been around as long as everyone can remember and has never really stopped working.

It bears saying that the most advanced nation currently on Hydaelyn are the Garleans, in large part because the vast majority of their population can't manipulate magic. I think you could make a good case of magic being "anti-tech development" because in a lot of ways, it is a form of technology itself.

For the most part, Eorzea reflects the early modern period in terms of technology: firearms, plate armor, lensing, large ocean vessels, humoral theory of medicine, etc. There's still some schizo tech thanks to Garleans and Allagans, and of course the fantasy setting has things like crystals, glamours, and enchantments that augment technology, but for the most part the setting reflects 15th-18th century real-world history.

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Originally Posted by Gula

So, we do know that the world is essentially in a Simpsons time bubble and the only definite movement is from 1.0 to 2.0. However, recently I've been questioning what exactly are the times.

As in, is Eorzea still primitive or is it safe to assume your average Ul'dah merchant wouldn't balk at a gun, concept of a hot shower and could operate a tomestone of frivolity?

tl;dr incoming

You have job quests that show that formerly exclusive job paths are becoming more and more open to the masses, seasonal events which are very modern and out of the norm (See casually coddling and parading a voidsent for All Saint's Wake) but then snap back to the MSQ. The snazzy leather jackets, jeans and 20th century fashion go poof with turbans, tunics and whatever era you'd call Ala Mhigan fashion.

From mass production of guns back to sticks and rocks.

Interior design is also harder to place since we can't go into every building the way we could in ARR. Sinks are a housing item, toilets are actually coming soon, and other indoor plumbing. Do they have this stuff in Gridania too or are people respecting the elementals with free "fertilizer."

Saying all this to sate my curiosity on the state of the world on the Source. A lot has happened since 2.0, and as the expansions go on, I'd like a more clear understanding on what constitutes as the norm or standard in a world where a chocobo carriage can slowly carry on, and then vroom vroom two Adventurers are doing sick donuts in a Regalia and SDS Fenrir.

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I would term it "post-modern age collapse" as a parallel to the bronze age collapse. There was a modern era Allagan empire but it collapsed in a calamity regressing the people back into an Iron Age. The modern technology of Allag is still around in pieces and can be used but not readily copied so I would say currently the Source is progressed between the Medieval Age and the Industrial Age depending on what civilization we're talking about and how much Allagan technology they've reversed engineered.

Another thought... There's a lot of historical ground to cover between the "Medieval Age" and the "Industrial Age" when it comes to tech levels. "Fantasy" tech levels don't always have to default to Medieval ones. They can be in any tech age the creator wants them to be in. I'm specifically thinking of the "Renaissance Age" and the technology that was invented during it. You've still got stuff like animal-driven transportation, but you also have stuff like the printing press being invented. And a whole bunch of other technological advances.

The Renaissance is also not too far off from Eorzea in terms of society either. You've got the Italian City-States, the rise of the Artisan class, mercenary groups for hire, a new wave of scholarly types coming in and developing new ideas... Eorzea probably has much more in common with the Renaissance Age then it does with either the Medieval Age or the Industrial Age.

i would say Eorzea is in the equivalent of the post industrial revolution. So around the mid to late 1800's in our own time. Magic has definitely played a factor in how tech (particularly the rise of Magitek as a way to combat it by people unable to use magic themselves) has deviated from our own. Which would make the Imperial expansionist period of Garlemald similar to Germany's in WW1.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

i would say Eorzea is in the equivalent of the post industrial revolution. So around the mid to late 1800's in our own time. Magic has definitely played a factor in how tech (particularly the rise of Magitek as a way to combat it by people unable to use magic themselves) has deviated from our own. Which would make the Imperial expansionist period of Garlemald similar to Germany's in WW1.

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Well, no. Eorzea has most certainly not had an industrial revolution yet - just about everything is still handmade rather than massproduced in a factory.
The level of technology available is more or less equivalent to our 18th century - but it is very unevenly spread, just like it was in our world. Rich nobles may have access to fairly advanced technology, but poor peasants won't have such access.

Ah, I do see your point. But, airship technology has been present for such a long time in the world of FFXIV, whereas in our own world we still have underdeveloped nations. Eorzea has been adopting said breakthroughs and many others with the help of Garlean defectors and the sudden interest in advanced technologies (the Skysteel Manufactory and the Garlond Ironworks being two examples). Garlemald has such a monopoly on it that it still has yet to spread even after decades of use in their campaigns. I still think it fits.

So much delicious, delicious insight. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

big snip

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I forgot all about Vesper Bay (Pray return to the Waking Sa- I mean Rising Stones) and how politics run the world stronger than the magic itself. Which is rad. Yeah, I suppose it does make perfect sense in that regard.

I always consider Adventurers/other players to be apart of the world, causing a ruckus with their outlandish outfits and clotting up the chocobo stables with all the non magic mounts. The WoL is always the exception, yes, but in the instance of, say, Concerted Works- it doesn't work without a mass of other people. So to me, they exist, and are actively affecting the world wherever they go. Which is why I'm eager for more insight. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

Also keep in mind that Eorzea has magic, and that it is much more prevalent then tech is. Why go through all the bother of designing the equivalent of a refrigerator when a bunch of ice crystals will do the job?

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Now this makes me wish for an ice box furniture item that can store exclusively food ingredients. Nothing Allag level fancy, just a plain lacquered wood box. And I'm also wishing to see a fully furnished, average peasant house.

ARR houses are usually a table/chairs, bed, some counters and the front door. It looks more like a place you can enter, and not really complete because of how spacious they are. But hey, if those cabinets are laced with ice crystals and there's some communal outhouse we never see, I'd believe it. Dwarf house on the First is more fleshed out... but it's on the First.

I think that the presence of magic REALLY skews things a lot. I suspect it's a lot more pervasive than we might think, which could explain why spears and bows are a match for firearms. While Garlean technology DOES give them an advantage, the advantage should be OVERWHELMING, but the game presents it as just an edge.

Because of magic, a lot of more primitive trappings hang around technological advances that SHOULD make them obsolete.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

And Teledji famously prevented even having an aetheryte installed in Vesper Bay simply to snub the Scions of the Seventh Dawn for not taking bribes.

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That's still Lolorito, IIRC.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I think that the presence of magic REALLY skews things a lot. I suspect it's a lot more pervasive than we might think, which could explain why spears and bows are a match for firearms. While Garlean technology DOES give them an advantage, the advantage should be OVERWHELMING, but the game presents it as just an edge.

Because of magic, a lot of more primitive trappings hang around technological advances that SHOULD make them obsolete.

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The game's lore says that all jobs use aether to perform their superhuman feats. All jobs, not just mages. Everything from warrior to machinist to monk couldn't do everything they could do based purely on training and muscle. And then, of course, there's that the Garleans developed technology specifically to make up for their inability to use magic.

So in short, basically yeah, you're right.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

And Teledji famously prevented even having an aetheryte installed in Vesper Bay simply to snub the Scions of the Seventh Dawn for not taking bribes.

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Reasonably certain that that was Lord Lolorito, hence the giant statue of him in the main plaza.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

instant mass-communication is available in the form of linkshells that are basically radiophones (Cid outright mentioned they use radio waves to function)

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Also reasonably certain that he was speaking of the Garlean equivalent to linkpearls and how they could be disrupted by lightning aspected aether.

Okay, found the specific thing. Drowning out the Voices MSQ: "Imperial forces communicate at a distance via electromagnetic waves. Simply put, voices are borne upon aetheric lightning energy that permeates the air." So, it's the Garlean equivalent of linkpearls, likely actual radios.

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

Also reasonably certain that he was speaking of the Garlean equivalent to linkpearls and how they could be disrupted by lightning aspected aether.

Okay, found the specific thing. Drowning out the Voices MSQ: "Imperial forces communicate at a distance via electromagnetic waves. Simply put, voices are borne upon aetheric lightning energy that permeates the air." So, it's the Garlean equivalent of linkpearls, likely actual radios.

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Eorzean linkshells are still the same technology at their base though, as Nero was easily able to use his Garlean-tech wrist-communication device to hack into the linkshell transmission between Cid and the player in the Praetorium, showing it works the same way. Also as the player descends deeper into the Praetorium more and more radio static becomes apparent with the signal eventually cutting out completely, due to radio/aetheric intereference inside.

So although Garlean communication technology might be more advanced in theory, it still works the same way linkshells do in Eorzea (an interesting thing is back in FFXI where linkshells first appeared, they were outright stated as being 'magical').

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Originally Posted by Astrid_Stormborn

That's still Lolorito, IIRC.

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

Reasonably certain that that was Lord Lolorito, hence the giant statue of him in the main plaza.

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Urk, you're both right. I've even stated that myself in the past (about the statue), how did I slip up with that one? :P Thank you for the clarification. :)

We have airships but compared with our usual magic teleportation, which would you prefer?

Magic replaces technology so much people ain't bother to improve. The job crystal all are somehow "oh muh previous bearer wisdom". Few rare ones are the ones making improvement like pure blank machinist that invented drones and sticky bombs then repurposed construction equipment then a magitek automaton.

Also since one of our major opponent is Ascian our reaction usually amounts to "come let's get another ancient stuff called white aurawadever and Chuck it at them and threw more aether" which no amount of technology can help with that (yet).

Also one thing about technology is the more advanced it is the less human.... Humans become. Allagan Azys La anyone?

The Allagans are the only society we know of that combined Magic and Technology to such a degree. And they made some of the craziest things imaginable. No other culture we've seen on Eorzea has come close to what the Allagans could do with either Magic or Technology, let alone the combined forces of the two. Of course, the Allagans also didn't have a morality check either and we know that Emet-Selch was pulling strings behind the whole thing too.

Which... actually might explain why we don't see magic and tech blended together either. Anyone with a decent sense of morality knows the Allagans got up to evil stuff with their amazing inventions. So I can easily see people associating "advanced tech" with "will cause you to lose your morality like the Allagans" and no one wants that to happen. Given how Garlemald has turned out (again with Emet-Selch behind it) it's not like history is proving that mindset to be wrong...

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I think that the presence of magic REALLY skews things a lot. I suspect it's a lot more pervasive than we might think, which could explain why spears and bows are a match for firearms.

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Actually that comes down to metallurgy, if bullets cannot penetrate mythril or other fantasy metals, then melee weapons and heavy armor remain practical. Part of the Armorsmithing quest involves making a set of chainmail bulletproof.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

While Garlean technology DOES give them an advantage, the advantage should be OVERWHELMING, but the game presents it as just an edge.

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I get the impression that Garlean technology is hugely wasteful of raw resources. Whatever advantages in combat they offer seems to be offset by just how much material went into their production. When I look at their bases they just seem so hugely wasteful in metal. The Garleans build a giant artillery cannon and instead of using it to bombard Eorzea from their side of the wall, they instead use it to blow up their own buildings and shoot at their own men thanks to Zenos.

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Originally Posted by Edax

I get the impression that Garlean technology is hugely wasteful of raw resources. Whatever advantages in combat they offer seems to be offset by just how much material went into their production. When I look at their bases they just seem so hugely wasteful in metal. The Garleans build a giant artillery cannon and instead of using it to bombard Eorzea from their side of the wall, they instead use it to blow up their own buildings and shoot at their own men thanks to Zenos.

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That is probably deliberate though, which also explains why, for all the Garlean Empire's vaunted miltary might, the Alliance has consistantly trounced them (or at least been able to hold out and beat them back). It's by design, as it fits

Emet-Selch's

MO - he didn't create empires to steamroll all opposition and then have a long-term pax imperium set in on it's conquered lands , no, he created empires with the expectation that those under the empire's jackboot would rise up in bloody opposition, thus setting up the right conditions for Calamities, and yes, that means giving the opposition a fighting chance. Consuming resources needlessly only works in his favour.

After all, look at the Agrius and it's sister ships. Huge floating fortresses which look impressive, and yet in the Battle of Silvertear Skies (in 1.0's opening movie) it merely attacks Midgardsormr and the Dravanian Horde with small arms fire (not a single cannon is seen being fired from it, only masses of tiny rounds being presumedly fired by it's crew from all along the ship). They're basically bloated paper tigers (and all it took was Middy to blast it once to send it crashing back to Hydaelyn. So yeah, it's clear

Emet

set up Garlemald in such a way as to be powerful initially, but then easily overcome after a certain point where their insatiable consumption of resources becomes unsustainable and their opposition learns how to use their power easily against them (as the Alliance has increasingly learned to do). No wonder they were so quick to use Black Rose (but that's another story entirelly).

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Emet-Selch's

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If you're going to spoiler-tag his name, you should be covering up the whole paragraph about his motivations as well. That's more of a spoiler whether you know the name of who's doing it or not.

After completing some of the Crystaline Mean quest-lines, I thought of Eorzea and how they're about on the same level when it comes to crafting and production. And I wish the DoH stories for the Source didn't immediately disinterest me. There's a lot of tidbits sprinkled for what's the norm and daily life, and who better to learn it from than the people who make armor and fix their city-states.... but I just can't get vested like I can with the quests for the Crystarium.

Also, with a lot of the comments in this thread in mind, magic does skew one's views on convenience. I mean, I still question the levels and methods of indoor plumbing, but if a certain raid is to go by, it looks like you can just tap a water crystal to get a flow going.

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Originally Posted by Gula

I mean, I still question the levels and methods of indoor plumbing, but if a certain raid is to go by, it looks like you can just tap a water crystal to get a flow going.

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Actually, they use spring crystals as a water source. There is a couple HW quests involving it.

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Originally Posted by Erendis

Actually, they use spring crystals as a water source. There is a couple HW quests involving it.

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Levequests or sidequests?

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Originally Posted by Gula

Levequests or sidequests?

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Beast tribe quests if I remember right. Possibly some normal sidequest as well.

It was done during the main story quest when we went to the sea of clouds Emmanellian was captured by the Vanu at that time and we went to rescue him and first met Bismarck. That was the first time we gathered those water crystals then after I believe it was also in the Zundu beast tribe quests.

Edit: basically the msq went like this Francel's sister wanted the fortemps playboy to get off his behind and actually do some honest work we tell him to go gather the water crystals because they needed a supply of fresh water so lover boy does it but decides to make it a contest to see who could get the biggest one(him or your character). After you finally found the one you wanted you find out that dumbo hadn't returned and so you look for him and find the fool had wandered too far and got captured... forcing you to save his lazy behind... old boy

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Originally Posted by Gula

Levequests or sidequests?

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It is in both vanu vanu (daily) and moogle (beast tribe progression) quests. And I think there was a quest in Camp Cloudtop too, but I do not remember if it was a side quest or MSQ.

Of course it'd be in the quest chain I completely ignore...

Still, thanks for the info. Without a new Encyclopedia Eorzea, I'm absolutely starved for more daily life lore.

You really just need to take the setting on its own terms, don't try and worry about matching it to historical settings or what technilogy was invented when and where irl. Eorzea is neither medieval europe nor renaissance europe nor modern day western civlization, it's just its own thing.

I'd say at least outside of the Steelworks most Ezoreans don't blink at guns as the Admiral and a whole guild we still can't join uses guns that look like flintlocks. Though the only time we ever see anyone reload a gun is Gaius and maybe in a Mch quest. Though the Nier raid I think at least for the 1st and to our character go beyond techwise at least with 2P and 9S of anyone's understanding of any level of tech. I guess our character could be like well I did see a giant space beetle turn into a person so maybe their like that.

There’s a frequently referenced quote by the science fiction author, Arthur C. Clarke, which states, “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Due to the multiple transitions between umbral and astral periods in Final Fantasy, magic can best be described as ancient technologies that permeate the entire world, the earliest origins of which have been completely forgotten.

A good example of this is an anime series, “Scrapped Princess,” where civilization had collapsed 5,000 years previously, and the medieval-style decendants perceived AI avatars (i.e, high technology interfaces) as gods, or forest spirits.

In this light, there isn’t a useful parallel to be drawn between Eorzea and real life history. At best, gameplay elements make reference to things and concepts that are familiar to us.

Garleans are an interesting twist because they reject the ancient technologies (that are perceived as magic), and hamstring themselves by insisting upon using magitek. The irony is that Garleans are still using “magic,” regardless of how they have dressed it up.

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Originally Posted by Tohe-Spidhire

Garleans are an interesting twist because they reject the ancient technologies (that are perceived as magic), and hamstring themselves by insisting upon using magitek. The irony is that Garleans are still using “magic,” regardless of how they have dressed it up.

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The Garleans don't reject magic as such and they most definitely don't reject ancient technology. Their problem is that pureblood Garleans are genetically incapable of using magic, which left them at a serious disadvantage compared to everyone else. They developed magitek (which was in no small part inspired by ancient Allagan technology) as a substitute.

Magic in FF14 isn't just "sufficiently advanced technology". Magic is simply channeled and focused aether. Plenty of their advanced technology (new and old) does include the use of aether in one form or another though.

The other side of the "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" quote is that if you're in a story where magic is a valid possibility, it may look like sufficiently advanced technology. The dimension-crossing in Shadowbringers is a prime example - the Exarch might have a tower packed full of ancient technology and the 'beacon' we find seems to be mechanical, but the summoning itself is incantation-based and is always talked about it in terms of it being a magical spell drawing on the energy of the tower.

You could try to interpret it (and every other magical thing in the story) as "actually technology so advanced they don't even recognise it as they use it" but it's going to be a convoluted and unnecessary version where the simple one is: magic exists, side-by-side with and often integrated into technology, because it's a natural part of that world and can be approached like a science.

Yeah, there's no indication that there are "machines behind the scenes" that are responsible for magic, as was the case in Scrapped Princess. This is just a different universe that works with different natural laws, and the effects of some of those laws (having to do with Aether manipulation) are magic-like and perceived by the natives as being magic.

I mean, it's POSSIBLE that the Ancients set up some kind of hyper-high-tech system to allow people to manipulate Aether (nanomachines suffusing the atmosphere, for example), and did so so long ago that they themselves forgot the origins of their Creation magic, but there's been no hint of that in the lore.

There's a science behind Aether manipulation, to be sure; it's a phenomenon with plenty of study devoted to it, with testable and consistent effects. But there's no current evidence that it is the result of advanced technology, forgotten or not.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The other side of the "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" quote is that if you're in a story where magic is a valid possibility, it may look like sufficiently advanced technology. The dimension-crossing in Shadowbringers is a prime example - the Exarch might have a tower packed full of ancient technology and the 'beacon' we find seems to be mechanical, but the summoning itself is incantation-based and is always talked about it in terms of it being a magical spell drawing on the energy of the tower.

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I think that could actually explain why Exarch had such a hard time with it. On Norvrandt, he can make the Tower do stuff for him, but across dimensions it all comes down to his own control of magic. Even Y'shtola has a known tendency to flub her teleportation spells, and Raha was a Bard back in 2.0 when they only had like three buttons to worry about. It was probably way more than he could handle.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I think that could actually explain why Exarch had such a hard time with it. On Norvrandt, he can make the Tower do stuff for him, but across dimensions it all comes down to his own control of magic. Even Y'shtola has a known tendency to flub her teleportation spells, and Raha was a Bard back in 2.0 when they only had like three buttons to worry about. It was probably way more than he could handle.

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He talks about it in 5.1 specifically. It's partly because he's not naturally a mage and has to draw on the tower's energy, but also the spell itself has to be tailored to the intended target, which it why it goes wrong when he grabs someone else instead.

Y'shtola isn't flubbing her spells though. Flow is working exactly as intended, which is to say teleporting the target "anywhere but here" with a chance of ending up in the aetherial rather than physical realm. It's explained back in Heavensward (when they first worked out that she cast it) that normal teleportation spells require incantations and take some time to cast, but Flow is instantaneous - which is why she's used it as an urgent last resort.