[Request] Add Lv.60+ Squadron OR Trust dungeons for SB leveling deadzone

As it stands now there is a deadzone for leveling alt jobs in dungeons solo for the 60-70 level gap from Stormblood that is not a problem for ARR, HW, or ShB due to Squadrons and Trust systems.

- For ARR there is a wide variety of dungeons from 20-47(50).
- For HW there is a minimal selection for 50, 53, and 57 (60), but still reasonable.
- For SB....there is nothing for Squadrons, technically you could do the 60 dungeons but that's not nearly the same.
- For ShB there is the Trust system, which covers the entire Lv71+ dungeons except for 2 80 ones that's largely unnecessary for leveling (obviously).

There are other alternatives like Palace of the Dead for 1-60 and Heaven on High for 61+, but that is just one method whereas you can see the dungeon method is covered for every other section so why not 60-70?

For example there isn't an alternative PotD version for 70+ yet but that could be added later for all we know, but the same can't be said for the dungeon alternative going backwards as mentioned since it already happened for that patch cycle.

With the Trust system now in place it seems odd to go backwards and use Squadrons to cover this level gap, so instead I imagine they can continue to use the Trust system to expand into this instead. The one issue I could see is the lore context of their outfits in old content but we know there are alternatives to that that they can use (even if not unlocked, they can be forced, so the "selection" is the reward once maxed still).

They could of course also add more characters to use as Trusts and give people a reason to go back and use them. For example Hien and Yugiri or Aymeric and Magnai.

If they don't want to include nearly every dungeon for 60+ section like the Trust system is for 70+, they could at least implement the selection based on the Squadron selection.

Current Squadron Dungeons:
- Multiple Lv.50 Item Sync Dungeons
- WP Hard = Lv.50 no item sync
- Sohm Al = Lv.53
- The Vault = Lv.57
- Two Lv.60 Item Sync Dungeons

So for Stormblood's Lv.60-70 section it would be something like:

- Whatever Lv.60 Item Sync Dungeons
- Sohm Al Hard = Lv.60 no item sync (or any of the 8...)
- Shisui of the Violet Tides = Lv.63
- Doma Castle = Lv.67
- Whatever Lv.70 Item Sync Dungeons

The idea is that we should have options available to us across the board, but for whatever reason that deadzone in Stormblood exists with the only alternative being Heaven on High.

They wouldn't have added the Trust system if they felt like they wanted more people just queueing for dungeons, so why then does this section of solo dungeon leveling not exist.

I think this is a reasonable thing to consider going forward as it would let people avoid queues for leveling this section if they so choose or at the very least not be stuck mindlessly grinding HoH. And of course allows them to expand the Trust system to add more things for people to grind to keep playing.

But can't you just... like... do the dungeons normally? I understand with some stuff you may want to see it first for yourself without any pressure, but it is an MMO. You're not meant to be avoiding queues. And doing trusts and squadrons won't teach you the nuances of playing.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

But can't you just... like... do the dungeons normally? I understand with some stuff you may want to see it first for yourself without any pressure, but it is an MMO. You're not meant to be avoiding queues. And doing trusts and squadrons won't teach you the nuances of playing.

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But I hate people. I just play MMOs to be able to avoid them.

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Originally Posted by Tint

But I hate people. I just play MMOs to be able to avoid them.

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I'll assume that's a joke.

SB has some of the easiest leveling options.

You have ~1.5 - 1.8mil xp /day day from beast tribes, and about that much from daily hunt logs, and HoH is a thing still.

Additionally, queueing for a 61-69 dungeon specifically will give you some priority for those in the leveling roulette, and roulette xp bonuses are scaled to your unsynced level.

I wouldn't mind additional dungeons for my full Offensive 5 squadron to test their mighty powers against. Extra XP and loot for me, with a little extra time saved compared to some average dungeon runs.

Honestly I'd like this simply because Squadrons need more content in general and it's high time they implemented more dungeons for them to do. It'd be a mess to go back and put in the frame work for trusts for those dungeons but actually updating existing content would be much appreciated, especially for those of us who are near cap or have capped our squadrons and have nothing else to sick them at.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

But can't you just... like... do the dungeons normally? I understand with some stuff you may want to see it first for yourself without any pressure, but it is an MMO. You're not meant to be avoiding queues. And doing trusts and squadrons won't teach you the nuances of playing.

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I leveled all my jobs to 80 until a few weeks ago and the gap from 61-70 was honestly the worst. So many runs with randoms..and so many runs with horrible playing or rude people. It was enough that I did countless of runs of HoH inbetween (but its boring and sadly there are enough people that are annoyed when you use the items you gathered mostly yourself on stuff they dont like even though it makes the run faster...) but I was so happy when I finally reached 71 (70-71 was mostly done with fates) and I only ran the MSQ roulette each day on top of doing the rest with the trusts.

I am a solo player and hate dungeons with randoms. I would have never leveled the jobs up if it was all with randoms.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

But can't you just... like... do the dungeons normally? I understand with some stuff you may want to see it first for yourself without any pressure, but it is an MMO. You're not meant to be avoiding queues. And doing trusts and squadrons won't teach you the nuances of playing.

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Most of the game is "Don't stand in bad - Look away" in the normal dungeons.
Plus Trusts were mainly added to alleviate DPS queue times.
It just so happens a lot of people use them for any job role though.

For me, I can just go in, AFK if I want or have a "Oops" death moment and not get screamed at.
It'll take me forever but still lol. I think it's one of the best pieces of content they added
that people still use daily. I hope they can expand it with Squadrons. I don't have them yet myself
but they could make it like Trusts and add flavor text to make them pop if they don't already
and have them all the way throughout the game. Hopefully the expand on Trust/Squads.
It'll be optional after all. Options are nice. I love options lol.

I maybe mistaken, but I don't think the squadrons are able to do every dungeon. which is a shame and think they should expand and also let them have actual job roles. they are a bit basic with no Job roles, just the starting classes. love the trust system, i use it for the first run through of a dungeon where I can. helps me learn mechanics a lot easier as the AI is actually quite good on those.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

I'll assume that's a joke.

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You'd think it was, but that is the mindset of many people who play this game in particular. Also, it seems to be the development direction SE is choosing to take by adding trusts.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

You'd think it was, but that is the mindset of many people who play this game in particular. Also, it seems to be the development direction SE is choosing to take by adding trusts.

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I've always viewed this game as a single player game that just happens to be an mmo. I say that mainly because of the MSQ being presented as what you would get in a single player game.

I've also read somewhere that SE wants all main series Final Fantasy games to always be playable one way or another. As we know this game won't be running forever. The servers will be shut down one day. In my view they are already laying the groundwork for a non mmo version of it.

This doesn't mean it will be shut down anytime soon of course. I see this game lasting for many years to come. Nothing wrong with getting things set up ahead of time though. Makes things easier in the future.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

But can't you just... like... do the dungeons normally? I understand with some stuff you may want to see it first for yourself without any pressure, but it is an MMO. You're not meant to be avoiding queues. And doing trusts and squadrons won't teach you the nuances of playing.

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I already mentioned it, but why would they add the Trust system and cover every single dungeon for 71+ if they thought that was an issue? They obviously added it for a reason, so why wouldn't that same reason apply for the Stormblood leveling gap? That's my whole point.

The excuse that "And doing trusts and squadrons won't teach you the nuances of playing." is a terrible reason to bring up when Palace of the Dead and Heaven on High exist, and what is recommended for people to do. At the very least Squadrons/Trust put you in actual dungeon situations.

And just as a real example for why not doing the dungeons normally, when I queued for Leveling Roulette on SMN it was over a 25m wait. That in itself would be an entire dungeon run if I could queue instantly.

Now imagine DPS queues for leveling dungeons when it's not a roulette. You are simply wasting time when you could be instant queue solo given all the other examples between Squadrons and Trust.

It's simply the fact that for whatever reason this option isn't available for the Stormblood gap comparatively to the rest of the game. It just doesn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by zeth07

The excuse that "And doing trusts and squadrons won't teach you the nuances of playing." is a terrible reason to bring up when Palace of the Dead and Heaven on High exist, and what is recommended for people to do. At the very least Squadrons/Trust put you in actual dungeon situations.

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IMO nothing in the game really teaches anything so I agree with you here. At the same time you have to pay way more attention with trusts and squadron than you have with real players because with others (especially if you are the DD) you can be carried through the whole dungeon and die to everything without consequences. If you die with the NPCs that fight is over and you have to start it again. Of course one could AFK between the bosses and I have used that with trusts to take a breather when I was leveling it all up. But as soon as the bosses are there you have to be on your toes.

Lately the only thing that diverges from AI and players is that Ai don't fake dc and say rude stuff.
It's sad comical that peeps nowadays can't even make a macro with "hello" but do flame is a wink.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

But can't you just... like... do the dungeons normally? I understand with some stuff you may want to see it first for yourself without any pressure, but it is an MMO. You're not meant to be avoiding queues.

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Why should it being an MMO mean that you need to DF with other players 99% of the time? Just because you add squadron/trusts to dungeons does not mean that every player in Eorzea will magically decide to treat XIV as a single player game disguised as an MMO. It is still an MMO because you interact many other players in one way or another on the same server. Irrelevant content like FATEs are still part of this MMO, even though you don't need to form a party! FCs are still formed, same as LS. And the HC parts of most (classic) MMOs still remain untouched in their need for human-player parties (nothing wrong with it!).
So, DPS may use it and allegedly skilled players who had drawn all the bad luck in their life with bad randoms (where they also were the only good players in the group) may use it here and there. And if the latter uses trusts or run a pre-formed full party makes for queues no difference.
And according to the loud minority, dungeons and non-raids/savage/ultimate content is, either way, totally irrelevant and pathetically easy. So nobody should be harmed. Those who geniunely enjoy players with others and try to form contacs will still use DF or PF. I don't believe that the "majority" would only use trusts, leaving DF/PF as a "ghost town", espcially as normal dungeon runs compared to trusts are still more time-efficient (which many people agree with).

Re: you don't learn mechanics without real humans.
It seems to me to be the opposite. Trust npcs follow all mechanics fully, so with them you learn them more easily as well. Hell, I always watched a bunch of guides before doing dungeons and still had trouble understanding the mechanics once inside, with the Trust you just see what the npcs do and understand right away what to do. In DF a lot of people don't even know what they're doing so you really don't learn much.
As for squadrons, they are so bad at doing dungeons that they require you to do double effort for the dungeon, and that also teaches you a lot. And no matter your role you're always the leader so you can't just lazily follow.

As for the OP, I fully agree. I honestly hope they'll expans the Trust to all game eventually, retroactively. I'm not too fond of squadrons, and sadly they only cover few dungeons too, but squadrons to 70 would also be appreciated, yeah. More options never hurt.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Plus Trusts were mainly added to alleviate DPS queue times.
It just so happens a lot of people use them for any job role though.

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Even if you're happy to play with other players, but want to level trusts (I want scenario mode back :(), keeping them raised evenly means you have to do half your runs as tank so Thancred can be left out of the party. Otherwise he's needed every time.

As SE has said as recently as a month ago in a live letter, NPC party AI has to be hand crafted for each dungeon, atleast for the bosses. This would take way too much time away from content that actually matters.

Trusts are mostly there to provide a bit of flavour to your first run, as you'd be doing them with story characters and you're there for story reasons. They also exist for far future proofing when the game starts to loose players and eventually in a decades time has only as many players as FF11 has now. It's an MMO, play with people.

I mean canonically most of the 8 man trials were literally just the warrior of light going in solo to fight a primal etc alone, and they didnt canonically bring 7 friends along. Should they make trusts for these too? Why should they?
If NPC party members were as easy to implement as you're assuming, they would of done it by now.

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

I wouldn't mind additional dungeons for my full Offensive 5 squadron to test their mighty powers against. Extra XP and loot for me, with a little extra time saved compared to some average dungeon runs.

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I also would love more dungeons & new level cap of 70 for my squadrons. All 8 of my squadron members are capped & very OP. Unlike the TRUST, my squadrons can mow down a mob very quickly. Give them a few of the 61-69 & 70 dungeons. I also love getting the weekly squadron buffs that I use when I visit other worlds.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Honestly I'd like this simply because Squadrons need more content in general and it's high time they implemented more dungeons for them to do. It'd be a mess to go back and put in the frame work for trusts for those dungeons but actually updating existing content would be much appreciated, especially for those of us who are near cap or have capped our squadrons and have nothing else to sick them at.

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I totally agree. Keep the Trust for leveling 71 & up, just allow them to do AoEs. All members of my squadron are capped. Give them more content, why put them to the waste side. Squadron is solo content that I enjoy & play alot. Also if SE allow BLU, which was suppose to be solo content also, to be used with the squadrons, that would be great.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I leveled all my jobs to 80 until a few weeks ago and the gap from 61-70 was honestly the worst. So many runs with randoms..and so many runs with horrible playing or rude people. It was enough that I did countless of runs of HoH inbetween (but its boring and sadly there are enough people that are annoyed when you use the items you gathered mostly yourself on stuff they dont like even though it makes the run faster...) but I was so happy when I finally reached 71 (70-71 was mostly done with fates) and I only ran the MSQ roulette each day on top of doing the rest with the trusts.

I am a solo player and hate dungeons with randoms. I would have never leveled the jobs up if it was all with randoms.

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I havent played HoH in a long time. Being using MSQ roulette to level my alts. I dont mind randoms players sometime but like you, I am basically a solo player.

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Originally Posted by Frankiepup

I maybe mistaken, but I don't think the squadrons are able to do every dungeon. which is a shame and think they should expand and also let them have actual job roles. they are a bit basic with no Job roles, just the starting classes. love the trust system, i use it for the first run through of a dungeon where I can. helps me learn mechanics a lot easier as the AI is actually quite good on those.

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I think of SE upgrade the squadrons with the AI like the Trusts have, I believe they could do alot of the dungeons. I also use squadrons & trusts has definitely help me learn mechanics for certain jobs.

Squadron is absolutely wonderful for collecting gear for GC or desynthing purposes. Please update this. Also please update the Guildhest with Savage tier mechanics. Or mock battles, using the new Trust System.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

But can't you just... like... do the dungeons normally? I understand with some stuff you may want to see it first for yourself without any pressure, but it is an MMO. You're not meant to be avoiding queues. And doing trusts and squadrons won't teach you the nuances of playing.

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For me, its not about what you said. I liked to go into squadrons with me on DPS to avoid those hellish queue times. If there's higher level dungeons, I could level my DPS at a reasonable rate without having to wait 30 minutes or so per queue pop. I know I could just ask people to queue up w/ me, but what if nobody is around or they are pre-occupied. Squadrons can fix that.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

But can't you just... like... do the dungeons normally? I understand with some stuff you may want to see it first for yourself without any pressure, but it is an MMO. You're not meant to be avoiding queues. And doing trusts and squadrons won't teach you the nuances of playing.

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I'd say we are meant to be avoiding queues, since we've got plenty of options to at every level range EXCEPT 61-70 inexplicably. Leveling DPS especially is a nightmare if you have to rely on queues.

Also, I like leveling while playing at work. If you want to force me to queue up to do that reliably, then enjoy me randomly going AFK and making you all sit around, or wiping the group, when my job has to take priority.

Finally, trusts and squadrons teach you the nuances of playing fine. If anything they teach you better, because you end up being solely responsible for executing the mechanics, and are generally the only character the mechanics target. And, if you screw up you're starting over; the group isn't finishing the fight without you.

I believer they are done with squadrons.. it was probably a prototype for trusts anyway.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

But can't you just... like... do the dungeons normally? I understand with some stuff you may want to see it first for yourself without any pressure, but it is an MMO. You're not meant to be avoiding queues. And doing trusts and squadrons won't teach you the nuances of playing.

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I'm a healer main trying to level dps classes now for the mount and two words: DPS queues.

Plus if they're playing something like a healer or a tank and aren't usually that class they may not have everything down about doing that class in a dungeon. I personally don't want to inflict myself as a tank on poor groups unless I have the mechs down.

I'd love to be levelling my squadron again. Those bed rats are getting restless. Or put trust in if it's preferred. Whatever works. Though my vote would be to re-do squadrons as trusts instead, for use in as many dungeons as possible. No need for NPCs or your "adventurer friends" or wonky story rewriting to shoehorn a beloved NPC in (though it is only right and proper Aymeric should come with me everywhere, I accept it would upset someone somewhere and probably shouldn't happen), you have 8 rabid fans trying to out-dps each other to prove worthiness. If it's an issue where there aren't enough players to run with other players (find that one hard to believe, really I do), simply earmark a dungeon as needing to be run with real people the first time its done, and either way the roulette stays as it is with shiny rewards, trust/squadron runs aren't included in the overall dungeon count a person has, and then whatever else it may need to remain balanced.

I am all for 61+ squadrons. I have my team of seasoned badasses, but now they are mainly sent on some random assignments (when i actually remember to send them at least) and that's it. Or when i am leveling a new dps class.

I thought when Trusts were introduced they said something about possibly adding them to 60 - 70 content. I don't have a link or anything though, just a vague memory of it.

Either way, I'd love something to get over the 60 - 70 bit on my remaining jobs.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

But can't you just... like... do the dungeons normally? I understand with some stuff you may want to see it first for yourself without any pressure, but it is an MMO. You're not meant to be avoiding queues. And doing trusts and squadrons won't teach you the nuances of playing.

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I leveled BLM using trusts and squadrons because I really suck at BLM and didn’t want to punish the community. I got it to 80 and there it will sit till the next expansion in two years.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I leveled BLM using trusts and squadrons because I really suck at BLM and didn’t want to punish the community. I got it to 80 and there it will sit till the next expansion in two years.

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That's my feeling with a few of the jobs. I either don't like the job or am not good at it or whatever. Like melee dps. I don't like doing positionals so I ignore them.

Instead of being yelled at by players for playing poorly, I'll just level the jobs in a way that I don't party with others. I won't use them at max level either.

Yeah, I'm in favor. Queue times, performance anxiety, and simply having a wider variety of options for leveling make this appealing to me. Leveling from 60-70 right now feels like a slog imo.

I basically just want squads upgraded so I can add lvl 70 glams to the mix. I wouldn't use them to level because their AI is abysmal (its been a while but they were pretty bad). Trusts are much better in that regard. And HoH isnt bad unless you're trying to pick up chests/horde. Then its awful. XD

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

That's my feeling with a few of the jobs. I either don't like the job or am not good at it or whatever. Like melee dps. I don't like doing positionals so I ignore them.

Instead of being yelled at by players for playing poorly, I'll just level the jobs in a way that I don't party with others. I won't use them at max level either.

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Exactly. I'm basically a caster, my main is RDM. All my casters are 80, BRD is 80, working on Machinist. I am not a tank or healer but I will play as them with squadron to get the practice & level them up but will not use them in an actual party because of me playing poorly. I dont want to hold back a party with my lack of experience & uncomfortabily (if thats a word) as a tank or healer.

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Originally Posted by Brynne

Yeah, I'm in favor. Queue times, performance anxiety, and simply having a wider variety of options for leveling make this appealing to me. Leveling from 60-70 right now feels like a slog imo.

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Basically thats what its all about...HAVING OPTIONS!