Ishgard restoration in the long term

Access to the Ishgard restoration FATE seems extremely restricted. It only appeared three times on each server, and by nearly all servers have completed the first stage. An event lasting a week and having only a handful of chances to participate is very limited even by standards of other special events. This extremely limited availability caused the playfield to become overcrowded, preventing some people from participating even if they were online at the appointed time.

There will be more stages in the reconstruction and so more chances to participate, but I doubt it can go on forever. What will happen a year or two from now when the restoration is complete? Will new players be forever unable to experience the event properly, or is there a plan to make it more permanent and repeatable? I already found it rather strange that in the beginning of the questline the NPCs told me they were just starting out and planning things, and then hey presto, the first stage is instantly complete without me doing anything at all.

The items available for skybuilder's scrips are also very expensive compared to what you get from returns. Lv80 items give 50-ish scrips, but most interesting items are in the ballpark of 1000 scrips, with some going for more than 2000. Apparently the FATE gives 500, but it's no longer available until the next stage begins. And then it'll once again be a race to see who gets to participate.

I was hoping for some kind of mixture of the Doman enclave reconstruction and Eureka, but in didn't imagine it could be this restricted. At least the item returns give pretty excellent EXP and seem to be perpetually available, so it's not completely useless.

The rewards from the fate should be removed and the fate itself should happen multiple times to give players chance to experience it for the sake of experience alone. The turn-ins are good enough for scripts.

If this content survives the player critique, we might get new things to build after the Ishgard is done.

Fair point about possible other construction projects in the future. Still, I think it would improve the experience for future players if the construction phases weren't skipped over entirely. Keeping the FATE around indefinitely may be infeasible, but perhaps after completion of the stage it could be replaced with a quest that asks the player to do similar things?

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Originally Posted by tdb

Access to the Ishgard restoration FATE seems extremely restricted. It only appeared three times on each server, and by nearly all servers have completed the first stage. An event lasting a week and having only a handful of chances to participate is very limited even by standards of other special events. This extremely limited availability caused the playfield to become overcrowded, preventing some people from participating even if they were online at the appointed time.

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Yeah, I was very unhappy with the event. While other players exploited the world travel system to take part in as many as they can, I could only participate in one of them (after SE hotfixed it and banned the travellers), because the FATEs were to crowded or there was an issue with the time table, as the FATEs may pop up in the middle of the night.

I know that I can still craft collectibles, but this involves Gil and much more time and effort then the FATE. So it just doesn't feel fair that some players got their rewards very easily at the expense of others like myself by locking us out of the content. For me, it feels like that the world travellers more or less stole our rewards.

The Ishgard restoration FATEs were not terribly exciting even if you did manage to catch one:
Interact with items at A.
Move to B and interact with another item.
Go to C and interact with yet another item.
Rinse and repeat until the FATE is finished.
Get a few seconds worth of cutscene as another structure is completed - which you can see in its completed state anytime you visit the Firmament.
Profit!

(There almost certainly were minor variations between the different FATEs, but I doubt there were major ones.)

If you want to see how work is progressing you need only visit the Firmament at regular intervals to see how it changes over time. If you want to help restore it, the real work consists of turning in all the collectibles.


Someone starting play a year or two from now will probably not be able to see how the restoration progressed, just as players starting out now won't be able to see how Mor Dhona or Idyllshire changed over time.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Someone starting play a year or two from now will probably not be able to see how the restoration progressed, just as players starting out now won't be able to see how Mor Dhona or Idyllshire changed over time.

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Difference being there wasn't a restoration questline for either Mor Dhona or Idyllshire, it just changed as patches happened.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

The Ishgard restoration FATEs were not terribly exciting even if you did manage to catch one:
Interact with items at A.

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Maybe, but that's not the point.
All in all, doing one-time-only-events on a very specific point in time where it is either hit or miss forever AND then letting only a limited amount of players participate in it, even when they are there in time, is just a very bad idea.

At least let them trigger multiple times a week on different times a day, so everybody actually has a chance before you move on to the next event - just make it so that you get your reward only once a week like it is with raiding. Or let the FATE go on the whole day for 24 hours and everybody who shows up at one point and participate in it for like 10 minutes will get the reward at the end of it. That would actually be a fairer system.

It concerns me a lot that this is one-shot and missable.

Doma was done with so much loving detail, about a place and a group of characters that (with the exception of the returning refugees) I didn't really know or care about.

Now we have Ishgard - a city far closer to my heart - and a project led by a character I've cared about for years... and it's temporary and missable. It's designed by choice to never be experienced as an unfolding narrative by anyone who isn't here to see it, while Doma will be playable through all its stages years later.

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Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

Yeah, I was very unhappy with the event. While other players exploited the world travel system to take part in as many as they can, I could only participate in one of them (after SE hotfixed it and banned the travellers), because the FATEs were to crowded or there was an issue with the time table, as the FATEs may pop up in the middle of the night.

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Oof. I was late in starting the quest and found the first stage to already be completed on my server, but I was hoping regional datacenters would mean the FATEs would be scheduled at prime time for each region. Apparently not.

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Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

I know that I can still craft collectibles, but this involves Gil and much more time and effort then the FATE. So it just doesn't feel fair that some players got their rewards very easily by locking others like myself out of the content. For me, it feels like that the world travellers more or less stole our rewards.

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My crafting classes are still Lv75-ish, and the Ishgard turn-ins seem like a great way to get some quick EXP. If you're already Lv80 though, it's just a horrible grind for scrips.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

The Ishgard restoration FATEs were not terribly exciting even if you did manage to catch one:
Interact with items at A.
Move to B and interact with another item.
Go to C and interact with yet another item.
Rinse and repeat until the FATE is finished.
Get a few seconds worth of cutscene as another structure is completed - which you can see in its completed state anytime you visit the Firmament.

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I'd have liked to see the cutscene though. The FATE does sound boring, so it could easily be replaced with a quest with only a couple of repeats of the tasks.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Someone starting play a year or two from now will probably not be able to see how the restoration progressed, just as players starting out now won't be able to see how Mor Dhona or Idyllshire changed over time.

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Would be nice to be able to see those changes as well. Is there any reason why they wouldn't be tied to MSQ progress? Maybe new game+ could be utilized to allow players to revisit such changes.

Just look at how the Doman enclave reconstruction was implemented. Regardless of whether you first entered it on patch day or a year from now, you first find the place in ruins, and can see it being rebuilt through your efforts. That's how I hoped Ishgard would be as well.

I guess if the quests related to Ishgard restoration are removed when it's complete, it at least won't be quite so jarring to have it completed instantly. But that seems like a cop out solution to me.

I just have to say this right up front. The FATE was sucky. The limitations on the number of characters was worse.

After the traveler ban AFKers were the problem.

They either need to make multiple instances or restore the AFK boot timer. Probably both.

How to make an interesting crafting / gathering FATE ... that would be a problem.

Other areas will open up to restore... so how about...

Gatherers gather salvageable materials from the rubble and deposit them in some kind of bin. Fishers could use snagging and bolides to fish in puddles for salvageable materials, it would have to be instabite to make it fair. This is all generic. You would have salvageable materials 1, L20 through salvageable materials 6, L80 with numbered nodes and puddles. There will be targets for each level. This replaces interact with item 1.

Crafters take salvageable materials from the bin and craft restoration supplies. Again this is all generic. You would have restoration supplies 1, L20 through restoration supplies 6, L80. There will be targets for each level. Quality should count but hopefully each synth, even macroed, would be 20 - 30 seconds. This replaces interact with item 2.

I honestly cannot at this time think of a way to replace interact with item 3 with something meaningful to crafters and gatherers. I mean we are talking stuff that doesn't exist in game. House carpentery, stonemasonry, architecture, paving.

If I do I will surely post again.

actually the rewards are too cheap, hardcore crafters got all rewards very fast and they also missed the fates, if materia was usefull this expansion then it would have been ok.

The hardcore crafters are probably spending entire days crafting items for the turn-ins. Maybe they even have friends bringing them materials. There's 31500 scrips worth of unique rewards (including all unlockables and one copy of each furniture, but excluding materia), so if you can craft one item per minute it'll take about ten hours of solid crafting to get everything. Totally doable for a hardcore player who can dedicate all their time to that single task. Not so much for someone who can only play a few hours per day and also has tons of story to do.

The rewards are also pretty expensive compared to similar ones from Rowena. For example the orchestrion rolls at the Firmament are 600 and 1200 scrips. Rowena sells (different) orchestion rolls for 200 yellow crafters' scrips. You also get up to 300 scrips from a single return from Rowena; five times the amount of the best skybuilders' returns. So effectively those rolls are about 20 times cheaper.

Materia VII costs about the same amount of scrips, but again at Rowena you get much more scrips from a single return. So much more that a single turned in item buys one materia, with some scrips left over. At the Firmament you need to turn in four items to get almost enough scrips.

Materia VIII at least seems to be somewhat balanced. It's 300 scrips at the Firmament vs. 500 white scrips at Rowena. The best turn-ins for white scrips give 172 scrips, which is three times the amount for skybuilders' scrips, but they also require more different materials and have more stages in crafting so I can't readily tell which method takes more effort to get one piece of materia.

The one reason I can think of that would justify some of these prices is that many of the items have been available from other content earlier. So perhaps SE doesn't want to devalue the original method of acquisition too much, especially in cases where that content is still live (Heaven-on-High).

I was only slightly disappointed to miss two fates (middle of the night) and also be locked out of another before they banned wanderers. Losing the xp is a bit disappointing, but I realized that the scrip was equivalent to about nine lv80 turn-ins.

In any case Ishgard is vastly superior to moogle tomestones.

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Originally Posted by tdb

The hardcore crafters are probably spending entire days crafting items for the turn-ins. Maybe they even have friends bringing them materials. There's 31500 scrips worth of unique rewards (including all unlockables and one copy of each furniture, but excluding materia), so if you can craft one item per minute it'll take about ten hours of solid crafting to get everything. Totally doable for a hardcore player who can dedicate all their time to that single task. Not so much for someone who can only play a few hours per day and also has tons of story to do.

The rewards are also pretty expensive compared to similar ones from Rowena.

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The one reason I can think of that would justify some of these prices is that many of the items have been available from other content earlier. So perhaps SE doesn't want to devalue the original method of acquisition too much, especially in cases where that content is still live (Heaven-on-High).

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Keep in mind that all the rewards for the Ishgard restoration are meant to be earned over the course of a year or so - it will probably take all of 5.x before it is finished.
So prices need to be high to prevent everyone from getting all the rewards after a week or two - else there would not be anyone available to work on the later stages of the restoration.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Keep in mind that all the rewards for the Ishgard restoration are meant to be earned over the course of a year or so - it will probably take all of 5.x before it is finished.
So prices need to be high to prevent everyone from getting all the rewards after a week or two - else there would not be anyone available to work on the later stages of the restoration.

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This is an interesting idea. I think I would still work on it because I want our world to progress to the next stage. Also getting into a fate might be nice.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Keep in mind that all the rewards for the Ishgard restoration are meant to be earned over the course of a year or so - it will probably take all of 5.x before it is finished.
So prices need to be high to prevent everyone from getting all the rewards after a week or two - else there would not be anyone available to work on the later stages of the restoration.

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I really hope that's the case and that they don't add more rewards instead! Because at this rate it will take me forever to get anything. And just the mount is 8000+ which indeed will take me very long.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

I really hope that's the case and that they don't add more rewards instead! Because at this rate it will take me forever to get anything. And just the mount is 8000+ which indeed will take me very long.

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It's not that bad if you're doing the level 80 turn ins. If you're trying to get it with the level 20-60 turn-ins, then yes it will take a while. But you'll be leveling up as you do it so you can start making the higher level turn ins as well.

I do expect more rewards to get added as additional stages are added, though not nearly as many as we started with.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It's not that bad if you're doing the level 80 turn ins. If you're trying to get it with the level 20-60 turn-ins, then yes it will take a while. But you'll be leveling up as you do it so you can start making the higher level turn ins as well.

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Even with the level 80 items it's going to take well over 100 items to get that mount. That equals at least two hour of solid crafting. Gathering thousands of materials is also going to take a while, or cost a couple million gil if you buy them from the MB. It's not quite forever, but still a significant effort, and a very repetitive and boring one.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It's not that bad if you're doing the level 80 turn ins. If you're trying to get it with the level 20-60 turn-ins, then yes it will take a while. But you'll be leveling up as you do it so you can start making the higher level turn ins as well.

I do expect more rewards to get added as additional stages are added, though not nearly as many as we started with.

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Yeah I've been doing it with lvl40 turn ins so with two full days of crafting+gathering +1 fate I got about 1800 scrips.
Sure, I could level to 80 right away and gear up and do lvl 80 turn ins but leveling so fast would ruin crafting completely for me. I have a few 70+ crafters though, so I could do lvl 70 ones I guess, though I can't imagine how long it takes to gather the mats, since with low level ones at least you can gather 4 per attempt.

Not saying "cater to me", just hoping I can do it all slowly overtime, instead of rushing.
(I'm also halfways through ShB msq so I wouldn't have access to lvl80 gathering nodes anyway, now that I think about it)

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Originally Posted by tdb

Even with the level 80 items it's going to take well over 100 items to get that mount. That equals at least two hour of solid crafting. Gathering thousands of materials is also going to take a while, or cost a couple million gil if you buy them from the MB. It's not quite forever, but still a significant effort, and a very repetitive and boring one.

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I know how much work it is. Between my 3 level 80 characters, I've crafted enough items to buy 2 Gorillas, 3 Lean emotes, a full set of the Craftsman glamour, one of the Orchestrion rolls, and a couple of the Aetheryte tickets. I've still got about 6500 scrip left between my 3 characters. I also did all my own gathering (which took far longer than the crafting did). I'll be doing more over time to get the other things I still want.

The key is "doing it over time". None of this has to be completed now. If you're finding it boring, break it up into small sessions so you get it done over a month or two instead of in one sitting. If you're still finding it unenjoyable, you always have the option of buying what you want from other players. Only 6 items can't be traded (the ones that were originally from Diadem plus the Firmament Aetheryte ticket).

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Only 6 items can't be traded (the ones that were originally from Diadem plus the Firmament Aetheryte ticket).

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Also the Estinien minion.

I realize it sucks for those who missed the 6 fates each server got.
But having a live event that is missable makes it feel much more alive and real. It brings the world to life, both with the mass of adventurers and helping the NPCs out in more or less real time.

Back in the 1.0 days GMs would host events like this now and then. If you were in the right place at the right time, you'd be part of their little event where they'd spawn enemies and such to invade the city or what not. They'd even put up a news article about it in the in-lore newspaper afterwords! It was fun, unique, and just a pleasure to be there. One of those is a fond memory of me Dragonfire Diving onto the Goblin boss they spawned it was something like level 70 and it instantly killed me. The GM in character called out to me very worried! I don't think I'll ever forget that exact moment. Why didn't I go as my warrior!? ;-;
Events like these really make the world seem alive, and I wouldn't want it any other way. I say we need MORE missable events.

And while yes, it can be a little upsetting you may miss an experience, you aren't missing any tangible rewards.
Plus, these are the days of vods and lets plays, you can see the events themselves on youtube or whatnot. Heck even I recorded the first NA Ishgard restoration fate for youtube.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I realize it sucks for those who missed the 6 fates each server got.

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Six? I saw three preparation phases and three concerted works on the skybuilders' board on my server, and I assumed each concerted works phase represented one FATE.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

But having a live event that is missable makes it feel much more alive and real. It brings the world to life, both with the mass of adventurers and helping the NPCs out in more or less real time.

I say we need MORE missable events.

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Yes, if short events like this happened multiple times per month, it wouldn't feel so bad to miss one. Sooner or later I would be able to catch one. Having them occur only a few times per year (such as with every major patch, which are about four months apart) is pretty much the worst possible option.

The seasonal limited time events, collaboration events and such on the other are fine since they are announced well in advance. What's the countdown for concerted works in the Firmament? 24 hours or less? I suppose one can prepare somewhat by looking for patch announcements.

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Originally Posted by tdb

Six? I saw three preparation phases and three concerted works on the skybuilders' board on my server, and I assumed each concerted works phase represented one FATE.

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There were 2 FATEs following the completion of the progress bar for each stage. The first was 2 hours after the bar was filled. The second was 8 hours after the first. Completing the second trigger the advance to the next stage and a new progress bar.

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Originally Posted by tdb

What's the countdown for concerted works in the Firmament? 24 hours or less? I suppose one can prepare somewhat by looking for patch announcements.

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There's no countdown as such for the concerted works. That's dependent on how fast a world completes its progress bar and that rate will vary depending on how many players are online making contributions. Rapid progress during prime time hours can be offset by much slower progress in the early morning hours when few are playing.

Why SE felt 2 FATEs in a 10 hour period in an instance that can only hold 300 players would be sufficient for all interested players to get a chance to experience the Concerted Works FATEs is puzzling. Hopefully they'll have the Concerted Works last much longer with more FATEs giving smaller rewards in the future.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

There were 2 FATEs following the completion of the progress bar for each stage. The first was 2 hours after the bar was filled. The second was 8 hours after the first. Completing the second trigger the advance to the next stage and a new progress bar.

There's no countdown as such for the concerted works. That's dependent on how fast a world completes its progress bar and that rate will vary depending on how many players are online making contributions. Rapid progress during prime time hours can be offset by much slower progress in the early morning hours when few are playing.

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Poor phrasing from my part. What I meant is how long in advance is the exact start time of the FATE known. Apparently the answer is 2 hours for the first of the pair and 10 hours for the second. And I guess it's possible to estimate it to some degree by looking at the progress bar of the preparation phase.