Sundering and specific character questions. [Spoilers]

Do we have any information about how the Sundering might have affected Midgarsormr or Omega, if at all?

Also, as an aside, did we ever learn why Emet-Selch, Lahabrea, et al., were not among the Sundered?

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Do we have any information about how the Sundering might have affected Midgarsormr or Omega, if at all?

Also, as an aside, did we ever learn why Emet-Selch, Lahabrea, et al., were not among the Sundered?

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The answer to both of those questions (outside of speculation) is no.

For the 1st question at least, we have a somewhat solid theory barring new evidence, in that the Sundering only affected the original Star and did not extend to the surrounding universe, i.e. go past Hydaelyn and Zodiark's "field of influence". Midgardsormr and Omega, who both are of alien origin, would thus not be affected by the Sundering, especially if they arrived after the event. This goes some ways to explain why Middy and his First Brood are so powerful, because they are unsundered.

Midgardsomr, his eggs and Omega only arrived at the planet after the sundering, so they qualify as unsundered beings as well.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Midgardsormr and Omega, who both are of alien origin, would thus not be affected by the Sundering, especially if they arrived after the event. This goes some ways to explain why Middy and his First Brood are so powerful, because they are unsundered.

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This is what I arrived at as well but I was wondering if there was anything specific that I missed. I guess not.

Also, I am hoping we see more about those specific Ascians in the future.

Omega and Midgardsormr are not sundered because they came to the planet after and it seems (keyword seems, but going by what we know of the cause, this appears to be the case) to be restricted only to the planet.

Which, in retrospect, makes me wonder if Omega's aether-crafting abilities aren't really all that special. It's pretty much the same thing the Ancients did. Are all unsundered beings across the universe able to use summoning that way, and rather than Omega being super powerful, it's more that Hydaelyn-ians are weak?

Question is can Omega be sundered since it is a machine.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Question is can Omega be sundered since it is a machine.

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It can definitely be sundered since inanimate objects like the planet itself could be sundered. But the question is what effects it might have, since Omega doesn't seem to have had a soul until it encountered us and began developing one for itself.

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Omega and Midgardsormr are not sundered because they came to the planet after and it seems (keyword seems, but going by what we know of the cause, this appears to be the case) to be restricted only to the planet.

Which, in retrospect, makes me wonder if Omega's aether-crafting abilities aren't really all that special. It's pretty much the same thing the Ancients did. Are all unsundered beings across the universe able to use summoning that way, and rather than Omega being super powerful, it's more that Hydaelyn-ians are weak?

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Yeah, that's my running theory, for now. That immortality and incredible powers of creation are pretty much the universal standard, and that sundered souls are the exception.

I reserve the right to back down from this theory, once we learn more about the Calamity that threatened the Ancients' world. If this Calamity was caused by their very nature as immortal, powerful beings, then presumably other races (including the dragons and whoever created Omega) would run into similar problems. (On the other hand, perhaps they did, or were on the road to doing so...)

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Yeah, that's my running theory, for now. That immortality and incredible powers of creation are pretty much the universal standard, and that sundered souls are the exception.

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What if the Twelve were not Ancients, but unsundered aliens instead?

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Originally Posted by Erendis

What if the Twelve were not Ancients, but unsundered aliens instead?

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I raise you my theory: The Twelve weren't Aliens, but just the Convocation Members befote being sundered. Not couting the fourteenth, and counting two Convocation members as one because Nald'thal is a twin deity.

I mean, I believe they say that the Twelve walked the planet before the First Calamity, which could be around the time of Amaurot. And those coming up with them being gods were the first generation of Sundered who still remembered a little, so maybe they just remembered some powerful figures/leaders and interpreted that to deities.

Alternatively, and purely going by Hades' name, seeing the Convocation members as similar to the Olympians. (Again not counting the Fourteenth and neither Hades, as he isn't one of the Twelve Olympians in greek mythology.)

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

I raise you my theory: The Twelve weren't Aliens, but just the Convocation Members befote being sundered. Not couting the fourteenth, and counting two Convocation members as one because Nald'thal is a twin deity.

I mean, I believe they say that the Twelve walked the planet before the First Calamity, which could be around the time of Amaurot. And those coming up with them being gods were the first generation of Sundered who still remembered a little, so maybe they just remembered some powerful figures/leaders and interpreted that to deities.

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Convocation members was the common theory on Lore forums, that's why I suggested it was aliens instead.

The first calamity though happened some time after the Amaurot fell considering at first there was a failure with the Thirteenth before they figured out there also needs to be a calamity on the Source.

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Originally Posted by Erendis

Convocation members was the common theory on Lore forums, that's why I suggested it was aliens instead.

The first calamity though happened some time after the Amaurot fell considering at first there was a failure with the Thirteenth before they figured out there also needs to be a calamity on the Source.

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Yeah, it's a common misconception that the fall of Amaurot was the First Calamity, but it is not. It's more like the Zeroth Calamity. The timeline looks roughly like this:
- The Sound starts making Creation magic go crazy
- The planet is on the verge of destruction (Zeroth Calamity)
- Convocation summons Zodiark at the cost of half of the surviving Ancients
- Zodiark stops the Calamity
- Zodiark fixes the world at the cost of half the remaining Ancients.
- The world is made lush again with new life
- The Convocation proposes that the new life be sacrificed to bring back the previous sacrifices
- The Dissenters dissent, and summon Hydaelyn
- Hydaelyn sunders Zodiark and the world, leaving only three Unsundered Convocation members, who become the original Ascians.
- Emet-Selch, Elidibus, and Lahabrea investigate the new, Sundered worlds to gauge whether they should just turn in the towel and let the new life be their successors.
- They find them wanting, say "Screw that", and start recruiting new Ascians to begin the work of restoring the world
- Igyorhym stirs up trouble on the Thirteenth Shard, but the Rejoining doesn't work. The Thirteenth becomes the Void.
- The Ascians figure out how to have a proper Rejoining, and target the Fifth (I think?) Shard, suffusing it with Wind Aether.
- The First Calamity strikes the Source, and the Shard is successfully Rejoined to it.

The actual timeframes are in question, but it is likely that at least a thousand years passed between the fall of Amaurot and the First Calamity. During most of that time, there were only three Unsundered Convocation members walking the planet, not twelve, thirteen, or fourteen.

This doesn't mean that the Convocation can't be the original Twelve anyway; they could have been legendary figures to the people who existed after the Sundering but before the First Calamity - the First Astral Era, basically - and their reverence survived each Calamity to come up until the present day. Certainly, to the wimpy, one-fourteenth-souled inhabitants, the three Ascians would have been incredibly godlike, and Emet's stories of how things used to be would be like describing an era of gods, with the Twelve being foremost among them.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Yeah, that's my running theory, for now. That immortality and incredible powers of creation are pretty much the universal standard, and that sundered souls are the exception.

I reserve the right to back down from this theory, once we learn more about the Calamity that threatened the Ancients' world. If this Calamity was caused by their very nature as immortal, powerful beings, then presumably other races (including the dragons and whoever created Omega) would run into similar problems. (On the other hand, perhaps they did, or were on the road to doing so...)

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What if the dragons did have similar problems, and decided to take to the Stars to escape them...

The dragons' home planet was ruined by Omega. That's why Midgardsormr fled with the last seven eggs. It's just narrative coincidence that Hydaelyn was the closest planet.

I am really curious to find out how or why Lahabrea, Emet-Selch, and Elidibus were the only ones spared the fate of being sundered. Furthermore, would those Ascians know for sure they are the only unsundered ancients? I do wonder if maybe more are out there, laying low and observing, but if so then to what end? Perhaps there are even some in thrall to Hydaelyn? If there are then why haven't they made themselves known at this point? Did Hydaelyn determine that certain individuals did not require being saved through the sundering process? Perhaps she had hoped some would remain to guide the sundered and help them to thrive. Of course, maybe our three Ascians were left unsundered only due to Zodiark's influence and they really are the only ones left. There's a lot of possibilities abound, and so many questions to be answered.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

I raise you my theory: The Twelve weren't Aliens, but just the Convocation Members befote being sundered. Not couting the fourteenth, and counting two Convocation members as one because Nald'thal is a twin deity.

I mean, I believe they say that the Twelve walked the planet before the First Calamity, which could be around the time of Amaurot. And those coming up with them being gods were the first generation of Sundered who still remembered a little, so maybe they just remembered some powerful figures/leaders and interpreted that to deities.

Alternatively, and purely going by Hades' name, seeing the Convocation members as similar to the Olympians. (Again not counting the Fourteenth and neither Hades, as he isn't one of the Twelve Olympians in greek mythology.)

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Not sure why you say Hades isn't an Olympian, he definitely is. He is Zeus' brother along with Poseidon. The twelve Olympians are Zeus, Hades, Poseidon, Hera, Demeter, Hestia, Aphrodite, Ares, Apollo, Athena, Hermes and Artemis

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Originally Posted by Elladie

Not sure why you say Hades isn't an Olympian, he definitely is. He is Zeus' brother along with Poseidon. The twelve Olympians are Zeus, Hades, Poseidon, Hera, Demeter, Hestia, Aphrodite, Ares, Apollo, Athena, Hermes and Artemis

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Hades generally isn't counted among the Twelve Olympians, since he made his home in the Underworld, not Olympus. You dropped Hephaestus to include Hades in your list.

There could be Dionysus instead of Hestia since she gave up her place for him.

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Originally Posted by Erendis

There could be Dionysus instead of Hestia since she gave up her place for him.

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I wonder if our original soul before it was sundered was "Hestia" since we vacated our seat, like she did.

Resurrecting this thread since it seems to be on topic to my question. So it appears to be the general consensus that the Sundering would not have affected beings from other planets like Midgardsormr (and thus his descendants), Omega, and Nybeth Obdilord (the Floor 100 boss of the Palace of the Dead). Has that been stated/confirmed by any official sources, or is that just the most common agreed upon viewpoint? Because that interpretation seems to make the physics of the universe pretty convoluted compared to assuming the Sundering affected the entire universe (i.e. other planets too).

Because if beings from other planets were not affected by the Sundering does that mean the outer-space of (beyond the moon at least) of the FFXIV can only interact with The Source’s planet? Like if someone living on a Shard/reflection tried to go into outer-space would that outer-space be the same outer-space of the Source? And then if the same individual then turned around would they land on their original Shard planet or would they land on the planet of the Source. Also if time passes differently between Shards and the Source randomly, how the heck would that square with them sharing the same outer-space?

I dunno it seems like it is simpler to assume that the Sundering had to have applied to all of reality, not just the local planet space, for the outer space stuff to make sense.

I wouldn't be able to tell you where it's stated exactly, but I'm pretty sure the Sundering affected only the area around their Star, yeah. Midgardsormr and his brood are that strong because they're unsundered beings. As for your other questions we... don't really know, though there's a chance it might pop up in Endwalker (what with us going to the Moon and all)

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Originally Posted by Theozilla

So it appears to be the general consensus that the Sundering would not have affected beings from other planets like Midgardsormr (and thus his descendants), Omega, and Nybeth Obdilord (the Floor 100 boss of the Palace of the Dead). Has that been stated/confirmed by any official sources, or is that just the most common agreed upon viewpoint?

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It's an educated guess based on what we know about the universe, aether, how magic and summoning works, etc.

First, the unsundered. How did they remain unsundered? "They were off-planet at the time" is the simplest and most reasonable answer. By extension this also explains why there are no dragons on the first and why aliens are so much more powerful than natives, not having split souls and aether.

Second, based on what we know about aether there's no way Hydaelyn was powerful enough, even in her prime, to split the entire universe. The bigger your spell or effect the more aether you need to power it. Even if you drained all the aether from the entire planet (which the Ancients did not, not even close) you couldn't summon something powerful enough to affect the entire universe.

Basically, the Sundering being a localized phenomenon just makes more sense in the lore. Maybe we'll find out we're wrong in EW. Who knows? But for now this is our best theory.

Koji said in an interview 3 years ago that the Sundering was isolated to just our planet and the Dragonstar was not affected.

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Originally Posted by Theozilla

Resurrecting this thread

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Not necessarily. Whenever we're shown the Source and the Shards in the Aetherial Sea, they seem to be floating in a ring orbiting nothing in outer space. My theory is that this ring of shards and Source has actual spatial coordinates, as that is something that the 200 years in the future Ironworks had to divine in order to make their time traveling tower work. This weak point in plot is hidden behind the bulwark of the setting, that being that the races on Hydaelyn aren't capable of long range space flight as far as we know.

Of course, because of the Aetherial Sea there is also an Aetherial Plane, basically a 5th dimension, and it's entirely possible that denizens of each shard perceive space the same way from the same spatial coordinates as the original planet, but they are unwittingly stuck in that 5th dimension due to their aetherial coordinates. Basically what I propose is that if any of the shard peoples did discover spaceflight they would leave their shard into the same space that's all around the Source/original planet, but they wouldn't be tangible unless they also crossed onto the same aetherial plane.

It could be that spaceflight is impossible for people on the shards, that once they start to break orbit, they hit aetherial interference, and are unable to break atmosphere. I feel though, that if they did fly into outer space, and then turned back, they would land back on their same shard planet, because that is their aetherial coordinate.

And we can apply that to every planet and star in the setting too. They all have aetherial seas, coordinates, lifestreams etc. It's just, most planets have just one. "Hydaelyn" has, as of now, seven total aetherial planes.

Of course, if we take it as explained in game by the Exarch, he says they are physically separate but aetherially connected. I think that was a layman's explanation though, as thinking about this too hard makes everything messy.

Of course, it's already messy by the nature of the fact that it is fantasy. Keep in mind that sufficiently strong foes have been shown to be entirely capable of opening pocket rifts, interdimensional or otherwise, allowing them to exist on an entirely separate dimensional plane from the whole mess.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

First, the unsundered. How did they remain unsundered? "They were off-planet at the time" is the simplest and most reasonable answer.

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On the Moon, perhaps..?

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

On the Moon, perhaps..?

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Considering the fact there are actual Amaurotine ruins up there, this is the most likely scenario. Now, why there was no moon present during The Final Days however...that's the big question. Unless of course it was created after them.

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Omega and Midgardsormr are not sundered because they came to the planet after and it seems (keyword seems, but going by what we know of the cause, this appears to be the case) to be restricted only to the planet.

Which, in retrospect, makes me wonder if Omega's aether-crafting abilities aren't really all that special. It's pretty much the same thing the Ancients did. Are all unsundered beings across the universe able to use summoning that way, and rather than Omega being super powerful, it's more that Hydaelyn-ians are weak?

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You got that backwards it makes the ancients not special. Whoever made omega was able to put the ancient's claim to fame into a robot as a side function.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Koji said in an interview 3 years ago that the Sundering was isolated to just our planet and the Dragonstar was not affected.

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Oh that’s interesting to hear, does anyone have a think to said interview out of curiosity/ for posterity’s sake?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Considering the fact there are actual Amaurotine ruins up there, this is the most likely scenario. Now, why there was no moon present during The Final Days however...that's the big question. Unless of course it was created after them.

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I mean the current moon we know was formed after the Sundering, as Hydaelyn stated that Zodiark got “banished to the heavens”, i.e. got turned into the moon (and moons of the Shards?).


If the Sundering being localized to just the original planet (and local orbit) of the Source is indeed explicity stated canon, I guess Vyrerus’ theorizing of how hypothetical space travel would work makes the most sense (even with the Gordian of trying to figure out the time differential would affect stuff too, like different night skies).

If the Source and Shards are basically a local space-time singularity/aberration, would that mean only the Source can receive meteorites and asteroids falling onto to it, or would any meteorites falling into the local space the Source and Shards are located in, essentially be duplicated and the “same” meteorite falls into both the Source and the Shards? But then I suppose any “duplication” would only apply to non-living beings or else Midgardsormr and other “alien” beings would have been “duplicated” as well?

(to be clear I am fully aware that part of these inconsistencies/reconciliation issues, are just an inherent aspect of the suspension of disbelief for fantasy stories, but it is still fun/interesting to theorize how the metaphysics of the FFXIV universe works with its “alien” characters)

The thing that makes me question when the moon came into being are the buildings we see at Mare Lamentorum.

Perhaps Hydaelyn's summoners created it originally as a safe haven in case the Final Days returned and ended up completely destroying the world, but had it used as Zodiark's prison further down the line?

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The thing that makes me question when the moon came into being are the buildings we see at Mare Lamentorum.

Perhaps Hydaelyn's summoners created it originally as a safe haven in case the Final Days returned and ended up completely destroying the world, but had it used as Zodiark's prison further down the line?

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I think it's pretty much a research outpost turned memorial. If the Ancients were as invested in studying and stewarding the planet as Emet-selch says, then it makes sense that they'd want a full view of their planet. I actually kind of wonder if there was more than one moon before.

Of course, I can't help but think of our own moon's incidental function... it soaks up many many meteors, asteroids, and other celestial bodies that would otherwise touch down on Earth. Both small and large. Hence why it's covered in craters.

Perhaps the moon with Mare Lamentorum was made after the Final Days, but before Hydaelyn's creation. Perhaps as both a planetary observatory, and a meteor aegis.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Of course, I can't help but think of our own moon's incidental function... it soaks up many many meteors, asteroids, and other celestial bodies that would otherwise touch down on Earth. Both small and large. Hence why it's covered in craters.

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Yes and no. While it certainly has taken hits from meteors that otherwise might have hit Earth, the reason for the buildup of craters is that there is no weather or tectonic processes renewing the surface to erase them. The Moon's lack of atmosphere would also presumably mean no slowing effect or "burning up" of the descending meteor, so it gets hit harder and by bigger rocks.

It's only going to shield a very small fraction of the Earth at any one time – think about its size relative to the whole sky! – and I'm not sure exactly how much influence its gravity has but it's most likely just going to bend trajectories a bit, not "suck things in" and pull them off course.

If there was a pre-existing moon/celestial satellite prior to the Sundering/Zodiark’s banishment to the heavens, and it was more akin to Zodiark was sealed inside/fused with the moon, maybe that’s what gave the Ascians the idea to give the Allagans the idea to put Primal Bahamut into Dalamud?

I believe I found the interview MikkoAkure may have been referring to?
https://gamerescape.com/2018/12/01/f...with-koji-fox/

And Koji only says that the Sundering/“splitting” was focused on the planet Hydaelyn. He actually says how far the split extends is something that he still needs to confirm with Oda-san. So it seems like it wasn’t fully confirmed then.

So perhaps maybe the Sundering only sundered the souls the Planet/Source, but the other planets instead essentially got “copied” into the dimensions of the 13 shards, but they aren’t “diminished” soul-wise like the Hydaelyn shard planet inhabitants. So there could be a Migardsormr in the universe of the First, who is also unsundered, but just never came to the First?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Yes and no. While it certainly has taken hits from meteors that otherwise might have hit Earth, the reason for the buildup of craters is that there is no weather or tectonic processes renewing the surface to erase them. The Moon's lack of atmosphere would also presumably mean no slowing effect or "burning up" of the descending meteor, so it gets hit harder and by bigger rocks.

It's only going to shield a very small fraction of the Earth at any one time – think about its size relative to the whole sky! – and I'm not sure exactly how much influence its gravity has but it's most likely just going to bend trajectories a bit, not "suck things in" and pull them off course.

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I mean, there are also lunar meteorites from collisions with the right side of the moon. The low gravity and no atmosphere cause them to fall to earth, where they are only preserved in deserts, mostly the Sahara and Antarctica.

It does shield the Earth though, at least partially, and that is the direct reason for why it has craters. No meteorites hitting it = no craters. It's not just because its surface doesn't wear down, much. That's why we can still observe them, though.

In a magical world with a magical moon with a magical atmosphere created by magical people with magical creations being magical all the time, I'm sure they could magically have it perform better shielding than our mundane moon.

Anyway, it's something that's very fun to think about, especially when theories like this exist. Lunar Cataclysm

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Originally Posted by Theozilla

If So perhaps maybe the Sundering only sundered the souls the Planet/Source, but the other planets instead essentially got “copied” into the dimensions of the 13 shards, but they aren’t “diminished” soul-wise like the Hydaelyn shard planet inhabitants. So there could be a Migardsormr in the universe of the First, who is also unsundered, but just never came to the First?

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If the Sundering is localised then I don't think there is a "universe of the First". There is a single wider universe but one small patch of it is containing multiple simultaneous realities, each one thinner than the normal density of reality.

The best way I can think of picturing it is to imagine the universe as a stack of paper sheets, mostly glued together but there's one patch that has come unglued so the sheets aren't attached to each other.

Most of the block has a single surface and thick layer underneath, but this section has many thin layers with separate surfaces. It's not clear whether you could access any of the additional surfaces from the surrounding universe or only the uppermost layer (the Source), which looks no different to the surrounding "whole" space.

This analogy represents the universe as 2D while the effect of the Sundering creates a more 3D structure, so to translate that to the real 3D universe then Hydaelyn is some kind of 4D hypersphere thing with only one section of it (the Source) visible from and existing in the outside universe. (I'm not going to pretend I fully grasp how 4D works but I think "seeing a 3D cross-section in 3D space" is the end result, like a sphere intersecting a 2D plane would appear as a circle.)

So yeah, I think it's likely that you can only access the Source from outside the planet, but once you're on the planet it's possible to mess with dimensions and access a different layer of the split world.


...but then, why would Omega have the ability to traverse it if it's a localised phenomenon unknown to Omega's creators?

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

It does shield the Earth though, at least partially, and that is the direct reason for why it has craters. No meteorites hitting it = no craters

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That's not because it's "shielding the Earth" though; it's because both Earth and Moon are both objects in space that can potentially get hit by space rocks coming in from any direction. One wears all its scars forever on a rocky surface, the other hides them and wears them down or swallows them in the ocean without a mark to be seen.

Things might be aimed at the Earth but hit the Moon first. But just as possible they might come from the opposite direction and hit the larger Earth first.

Additionally, despite the "lunar cataclysm" description of the Late Heavy Bombardment theory you linked, as far as I can tell the only reason it's called "lunar" is because that's where the (debated) evidence for it is found. The article talks about it bombarding all four terrestrial planets and has a whole section on how Earth would have been impacted by it, with no mention of the idea of the Moon shielding it from anything.

Again, look at the size of the Moon in the night sky. That is how much of the Earth's surface it can shield at any given point, and the other half of the globe is completely unprotected.

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Originally Posted by Theozilla

Oh that’s interesting to hear, does anyone have a think to said interview out of curiosity/ for posterity’s sake?

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https://gamerescape.com/2018/12/01/f...with-koji-fox/
He seems a little vague about it at first and says that he has to check with Oda, but this is what we have now. Funny enough, it came out right after this thread originally died.

To add onto what Vyrerus said, he does mention the fact the Dragonstar is very, very far away from all this.

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We’re not talking splits there. In a far away place, you have Midgardsormr…and in a faraway place there’s Omega and its creators

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

snip.

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I think we’ve gone way off topic but more meteors hit Earth than the moon because the Earth is much bigger.

Other than the fact that the moon has no weathering, it has more craters because most things that hit Earth burn up in the atmosphere. If you’ve seen a scale diagram of our specific system, the moon is so far away from the Earth, it’s less like we’re holding a shield and more that we have a large ball on the end of a very long rope that we’re swinging around. Jupiter has done much more to protect the Earth than the moon has.

The biggest role the moon has though is that it creates the tides, without which we would never have had life.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Atmosphere

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Actually, the Moon let the Earth form an atmosphere to begin with. They shared their magnetospheres(the moon used to have one) for about 600 million years after the Moon formed. This let it deflect solar wind quite readily, as it was only 80,000 miles away from Earth back then (theoretically). In this way, it has given us our greatest boon, but it will also one day cause our rotation to slow to the point that our days match its revolutions, and so our days will be 648 hours long. Obviously that's some billions away, but... it'll get us before the Sun does.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

completely unprotected.

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By that logic, look up at the Sun in the day time sky. That's how much of the Earth it can protect >:B

A lot more goes into meteor impacts than you think. The Moon doesn't merely act as a physical shield, though I love to think of it as one, since it has many scars. When a meteor is drawn into the ecliptic, it is pulled by the Sun's gravity foremost, but it's affected by the Earth's and the Moon's as well. This can pull the meteor to them, but it may also unsteady its orbit and accelerate it towards the sun or away from Earth. But as a show, I think it's currently calculated that for every 43.3 meteoroid tons hit Earth, 1.4 hit the Moon. It is small, but not as small as you think.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

But as a show, I think it's currently calculated that for every 43.3 meteoroid tons hit Earth, 1.4 hit the Moon. It is small, but not as small as you think.

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And what about that fact demonstrates the Moon is a "shield" that prevents Earth from getting hit by meteors? It's getting hit by 31 times as much space rock as the thing you want to call its shield.

If anything, and assuming I'm doing my maths right, Earth gets more meteors by weight for the same surface area.

The Moon's radius is about a quarter of Earth's. Surface area is 4(pi)r^2, the comparative bit that matters is r^2, simple maths of r=1 vs r=4 would mean Earth has 16 times as much surface area and yet it is hit by 31 times as much space rock.

That seems odd, so perhaps there are other factors that contribute to the Earth collecting more.

Still, if I've calculated that right, it indicates that the Moon gets less impacts than I would have thought.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

If the Sundering is localised then I don't think there is a "universe of the First". There is a single wider universe but one small patch of it is containing multiple simultaneous realities, each one thinner than the normal density of reality.

The best way I can think of picturing it is to imagine the universe as a stack of paper sheets, mostly glued together but there's one patch that has come unglued so the sheets aren't attached to each other.

Most of the block has a single surface and thick layer underneath, but this section has many thin layers with separate surfaces. It's not clear whether you could access any of the additional surfaces from the surrounding universe or only the uppermost layer (the Source), which looks no different to the surrounding "whole" space.

This analogy represents the universe as 2D while the effect of the Sundering creates a more 3D structure, so to translate that to the real 3D universe then Hydaelyn is some kind of 4D hypersphere thing with only one section of it (the Source) visible from and existing in the outside universe. (I'm not going to pretend I fully grasp how 4D works but I think "seeing a 3D cross-section in 3D space" is the end result, like a sphere intersecting a 2D plane would appear as a circle.)

So yeah, I think it's likely that you can only access the Source from outside the planet, but once you're on the planet it's possible to mess with dimensions and access a different layer of the split world.


...but then, why would Omega have the ability to traverse it if it's a localised phenomenon unknown to Omega's creators?

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So in your proposed model, how would things such as meteorites and asteroids work with the Source and Shards then? Would that mean the shards never have had any meteorites hit their planets then?

And if anyone on the shards were to develop hypothetical means of space travel, how would they be able to interact with things in outer-space?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

https://gamerescape.com/2018/12/01/f...with-koji-fox/
He seems a little vague about it at first and says that he has to check with Oda, but this is what we have now. Funny enough, it came out right after this thread originally died.

To add onto what Vyrerus said, he does mention the fact the Dragonstar is very, very far away from all this.

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Yeah I actually found that interview earlier and posted it lasted night.

And while he said the split/sundering "is focused mainly on Hydaelyn, the planet, being split." He did leave the subject of whether/how other planets in the cosmos were or were not affected by the Sundering, as something that needed further confirmation. And since ShadowBringers and its patches didn't really touch on other planets, I feel like like the official status of how the sundering/split affecting other planets/greater universe, is still officially unconfirmed/defined.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iscah

And what about that fact demonstrates the Moon is a "shield" that prevents Earth from getting hit by meteors? It's getting hit by 31 times as much space rock as the thing you want to call its shield.

If anything, and assuming I'm doing my maths right, Earth gets more meteors by weight for the same surface area.

The Moon's radius is about a quarter of Earth's. Surface area is 4(pi)r^2, the comparative bit that matters is r^2, simple maths of r=1 vs r=4 would mean Earth has 16 times as much surface area and yet it is hit by 31 times as much space rock.

That seems odd, so perhaps there are other factors that contribute to the Earth collecting more.

Still, if I've calculated that right, it indicates that the Moon gets less impacts than I would have thought.

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You're going by raw size still, and that's not the whole equation. Everything with regards to a cosmic scale and space scale has to be looked at over eons and eons. Even small things change a lot on such a vast scale.

Do a thought experiment for me. Imagine there was no Theia or other speculated moon formation for Earth. 1.4 tons per year for 4.2 billion years is an added 5.88 billion tons of meteroids that would have other wise hit the Earth. We'd have no atmosphere and no life to record such things, either, since there'd be no barrier magnetosphere for 600 million years to let the main planet form its atmosphere. No oceans, no grass, nothing but another Mars.

As far as why the Earth gets so much more meteoroid tonnage... it's because they count all meteoroids, even those considered to be dust(meteoroids that are basically less than a millimeter in size, this makes raw surface area more important). It's all done with equations and theory, as is everything we're talking about, with regards to this, so it's actually unprovable but is the most likely reality. No scientists nor scientific coalition has observed enough impacts to even actually give us concrete data. It's incredibly interesting because they always have to do stuff like compare crater age on the moon to like kimberlite volcano pipes vs. soil erosion rates and stuff to provide evidence that the Moon and Earth's impact rates line up.

And in recent years they're(NASA) finding that the moon gets impacted more and more than they ever thought or calculated, so I'll stick by what I said. It'll likely change again in a few years, and then again a few years after that. If it pleases Judge Moonsong though, we can call the Ancients' Moon a meteor auspice or meteor monitor. A monument to power over something the Ancients feared, mayhaps. /shrug It's not like Final Fantasy is above using farfetch'd science fiction explanations in their plot either, considering in FFIV the Blue Planet is supposed to be our Earth, and the Lunarian's Planet was the 5th planet and blew up turning into the asteroid belt (which is a "debunked" theory going around for decades now).