8v8v8

Come on SE, this has to be changed ASAP. The 72 only FL is totally killing PvP for anyone that can't play at prime time. Since the patch my average wait time for a morning match is around 350 minutes or more because basically there aren't any matches until 11am at roulette time. I know I have bitched about this quite a bit, however, I believe that people need to complain as much as humanly possible in order to get SE to rethink this incredibly thoughtless decision, which I cannot fathom in anyway. There appears to be no logic behind this change and it does nothing but disrupt the player community. If it MUST be 72 player PvP for god knows what reason then you need to look into population issues on certain data centers. I play on Crystal and basically you CANNOT get a pvp group prior to roulette time, however, prior to the 5.1 patch, it used to take me about 10 - 20 minutes to get an 8v8v8 match even at the darkest depths of the morning. To my fellow players that cannot tolerate this unbelievable change, please keep yelling at the top of your lungs until SE hears us. This can't keep going like this, or literally, I am going to seriously consider quitting the game that I have played non-stop for the past 3 years. I wasn't even into PvP until the Garo event was about to end and once I got a taste of it, I couldn't stop. I played DAoC back in the day when it first came out in 2001 and I was totally addicted to the RvR pvp system in that game and every since, I have been trying to replicate that feeling that RvR gave you. This game came close, and honestly, I know people think it is lacking in many ways (because it is), however, it has enormous potential I believe and could someday, with some effort by SE, be a serious contender to the best PvP titles available today. The long and the short of it is... bring back 8v8v8 combat and invest some serious effort into the PvP system of this game. I can't wait forever so, I hope they do it soon.:mad::mad:

Maybe SE thinks those 24 people still have Feast to PvP to farm Wolves marks points (24people does 3 Feast games at the same time), but it's not the same gameplay pleasure, in the end, and we cannot know if people are queuing for one or another, and we can't communicate to all those ones to switch to Feast.

In other words, we should be able to queue for Frontline and Feast at the same time if they really want to get rid of the 24 players Frontline (at least the Feast training, as I believe people want in ranking mode only people really here for ranking Feast).

Of all the pvp modes, I liked 8v8v8 the best. Used to queue during off hours specifically in hopes of getting it.

Haven't played much pvp since 5.1.

So you play at non-peak hours and complain that no one is playing. Okie dokie.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

So you play at non-peak hours and complain that no one is playing. Okie dokie.

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and you want current content that is completely inaccessible outside of peak times? I get that people are playing other newly released content but at least I could finish the frontline roulette at any time of the day before the change.

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Originally Posted by MrMagic

and you want current content that is completely inaccessible outside of peak times? I get that people are playing other newly released content but at least I could finish the frontline roulette at any time of the day before the change.

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You can make up fake arguments to argue against, but everyone can literally see I never said "I want current content that is completely inaccessible outside of peak times". Current content is often inaccessible outside of peak times, and not current content is sometimes rather quick to get into outside of peak times. The main point is, you can't expect to get in quickly if you're playing at like 9am. Depending on time zones, people are either asleep, getting ready for work/school, or at work/school. Most people don't play MMOs in the morning.

Doozer, they said they could play in 24 player mode in the morning, now they can't. That's what they complain about, that's all.
They had something, now they don't anymore. It's easy to understand why they complain.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

So you play at non-peak hours and complain that no one is playing. Okie dokie.

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Pretty sure the complaint is that before there was a party size for Frontlines that worked for low-pop hours, that was removed, so now at those low-pop hours, queues for frontlines never pop. They tried to fix something that wasn't broken, and broke it. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to play at peak hours, so now the people that are limited to off hour game time have little to no access to pvp content. It's just a very bad move on SE's part.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

So you play at non-peak hours and complain that no one is playing. Okie dokie.

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I never had problems getting a group before 5.1? Additionally... yes... everyone can play at prime time. Nobody has anything to do from 8pm - 12am. You are 100% right. If you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic. I know crappy players like 72 person though, the zerg really helps you leech kills. :D Yeah so, 8v8v8 actually requires some skill... that's why SE hates it. SE has always wanted to make hardcore player's lives as hard as possible. No room for you in THIS game, sorry. Go play something else I guess?

Edit: Sorry for my saltiness, but these kind of people really get on my nerves because it doesn't affect them so they could care less.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

You can make up fake arguments to argue against, but everyone can literally see I never said "I want current content that is completely inaccessible outside of peak times". Current content is often inaccessible outside of peak times, and not current content is sometimes rather quick to get into outside of peak times. The main point is, you can't expect to get in quickly if you're playing at like 9am. Depending on time zones, people are either asleep, getting ready for work/school, or at work/school. Most people don't play MMOs in the morning.

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This is typical word twisting and misconstruing what the OP is complaining about. 24man pops helped people who play in quieter hours of the day still have a chance to PvP. They no longer have this option. I think being a bit annoyed about it is perfectly valid.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

This is typical word twisting and misconstruing what the OP is complaining about.

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Originally Posted by MrMagic

and you want current content that is completely inaccessible outside of peak times?

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So was this, but I see you're not pointing that out. Interesting that you only care about alleged word twisting when it supports your stance.

There's nothing "word twisting" about "you can't expect content to always be available outside of peak hours". They can't cater to people who play competitive game modes in the morning. Most people either play during more populated times or accept the fact that they're going to be in a queue for a while. They clearly had a reason to take out 8v8v8 (I know I hated it), so why change it because someone who plays at a weird time can't get in anymore? Maybe go play on an EU or JP server if you want to pay at that time, you might have better queues.

I think the real conflict people are having with your post Doozer is that the 8v8v8 was an option that could allow those people to have an easier time getting a game in before reset/ running games before peak. Taking that away and restricting them to just peak times is a slap in the face for anyone who actively runs frontlines. It's better to have it (even if you don't like 8v8v8) then to revoke it and make anytime before peak a dead zone. If the people who didn't want 8v8v8's then could just simply choose not to play during the earlier times and wait for peak, giving the others who want it to have THE option.

Taking the mode out not only robs the people of the tension of a 8v8v8 (where you see you how much you mean on a team) it's also giving off the notion that you can ONLY play this then and have people gradually lose interest in it when they look into what else they could be doing during that time.

From what it seemed like the JP community was the only one complaining, which is where this removal most likely came from. They sure as all hell ain't looking to the NA/EU communities because we're both against this notion for the very reason the OP posted.

PVP is a tight niche community as it is, we don't want even more restrictions on the modes, especially when Frontlines is one of the most casual modes due to it's 72 zerg fest.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

So was this, but I see you're not pointing that out. Interesting that you only care about alleged word twisting when it supports your stance.

There's nothing "word twisting" about "you can't expect content to always be available outside of peak hours". They can't cater to people who play competitive game modes in the morning. Most people either play during more populated times or accept the fact that they're going to be in a queue for a while. They clearly had a reason to take out 8v8v8 (I know I hated it), so why change it because someone who plays at a weird time can't get in anymore? Maybe go play on an EU or JP server if you want to pay at that time, you might have better queues.

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I mean they could, and they did until they decided to just remove it because that is what they're good at. The removal of it was unnecessary just like 8vs8 feast which they could of just renamed.

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Originally Posted by Strywin

I mean they could, and they did

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No they didn't. 8v8v8 did not exist specifically to cater to people who played in the morning. If I'm wrong about that, show me some news post on the Lodestone or some such that explicitly states it was for morning players. Did they switch it off after the morning ended like breakfast menus at fast food places?

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Originally Posted by Doozer

No they didn't. 8v8v8 did not exist specifically to cater to people who played in the morning. If I'm wrong about that, show me some news post on the Lodestone or some such that explicitly states it was for morning players. Did they switch it off after the morning ended like breakfast menus at fast food places?

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No; 24man, 48man, and 72man catered to everyone at anytime so that matches would possibly pop up quicker. Did I mention it was for morning players? no I did not.

I'm starting to think Doozer might have some sort of baggage with morning/early hour players considering how much they seem to want them to not be able to pvp. The absolute lack of empathy is off-putting.

8v8v8 should be brought back. 16v16v16 should be added. A toggle in the duty settings should be added so you can opt out of joining matches of certain party sizes. That should make everyone happy, give plenty of options, and allow queues in early morning hours to start popping again for people that can only pla at that time.

Sorry for my sarcastic comment. You kind of made a point for the argument though.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Yeah I foolishly tried to get my roulette bonus from yesterday before the reset today, and wasted 2 hours for nothing.

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The queue times have blown out by quite a lot to the point where you mostly will not get a pop at any time off peak now.

EDIT: I don't see what their reasoning is although I might be surprised. Before you got 72 and 24 man during peak and 24 man during off peak. Now you get 72 man during peak and nothing during off peak. If you miss the peak queue, you could still complete the roulette for easy marks. Now you can't.

There's many reasons to miss the peak queue and I'd still want to be able to complete the roulette.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

If I'm wrong about that, show me some news post on the Lodestone or some such that explicitly states it was for morning players. Did they switch it off after the morning ended like breakfast menus at fast food places?

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Nice bait, you actually got some people with this.

I have a weird timezone, so I like 8v8v8 for two reasons.
1. I can't play at the normal time for NA players since I am from NZ, and
2. 8v8v8 just felt better, I felt like I was making a greater overall contribution.

Here it is, Tuesday 11am and nothing. I'm surprised there isn't anything even at roulette time today. If it doesn't pop in the next hour or so, I won't even get the roulette done for today. This is really getting to be a complete joke. As we have also noted, many people on NA servers, don't necessarily even come from NA and hence are not on our time at all. I will give it until the next patch (two more weeks maybe three is my guess) for them to fix it, if not... I'll seriously have to reconsider if I want to play this game at all anymore. PvP is a very important aspect of this game to me personally and if something doesn't change, then like I said, I might have to move on to another game for awhile until it is fixed. (I really don't want to do that either)

PS: Doozer, you said wait in the queue for awhile... does awhile count as 6+ hours? When previously it took 10 - 20 minutes? You are here just because you want to be a troll and you must really love your 72 person (btw unless you play morning, this wouldn't even affect you at all).

I cant get matches when I get off of work in the morning. Please bring this back.

Sorry to post twice, but I to like the small matches where it's more personal. Easier to pick my target when things get personal. There is still strat5to be had in 72man when people act right and take charge or fall in line.

https://i.imgur.com/DuwNxjn.png
When you forget to leave the queue and come back to this. Removing 24 man was a mistake.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

So you play at non-peak hours and complain that no one is playing. Okie dokie.

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Imagine people having night shift jobs, or being on different time zones playing on NA Data centers. Man, what an unimaginable thing.

Seriously, before 5.1, I was seeing so many people online, and 24m FL matches would be 20 minutes que tops. 30m if it was a sunday.

We have every right to complain as those were peak hours for us. The night shifters, The EU people playing NA, the morning birds who have a day off, etc.

"Most people don't play MMOs in the morning." If you have proof of this, I'd love to see it. Not all of us have 9 to 5 jobs. Not all of us have kids or morning responsibilities. Some of us just want to play the mode we enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Kwehvehpeh

Imagine people having night shift jobs, or being on different time zones playing on NA Data centers. Man, what an unimaginable thing.

Seriously, before 5.1, I was seeing so many people online, and 24m FL matches would be 20 minutes que tops. 30m if it was a sunday.

We have every right to complain as those were peak hours for us. The night shifters, The EU people playing NA, the morning birds who have a day off, etc.

"Most people don't play MMOs in the morning." If you have proof of this, I'd love to see it. Not all of us have 9 to 5 jobs. Not all of us have kids or morning responsibilities. Some of us just want to play the mode we enjoy.

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This.

I work third shift these days and it ain't cool to not be able to get a match in the mornings. There was nothing wrong with 8v8v8. Please bring it back. Also the 8v8 feast with all maps on random.

I'm also on Crystal. I'm also in an off timezone. I queue frontlines for hours now while doing gathering or fates just on the off chance that enough off-time players might do the same and a Unicorn off-time game might happen(my longest queues have been 4 hours in non-peak times before I gave up). I hate the thought of 50-ish players all trying to do frontlines and thinking that my addition could be the difference between a game happening so I just keep trying. I wish we knew how many people are in the queue, so we have a better ability to gauge if a match will happen. Having, at least, the ability to shout out in high-pop areas that a game could happen if just a few more people join could help if (8v8v8) man doesn't return.

That said, I'd rather have 24-man back!!! Until the mad rush for the Garo mounts at the end of 5.1, I had barely even played a 72 man game. Now I have to be up at off hours just to get a game in if one happens at all. And sure, 24 man games were a bit slower but as others have said you really could feel like you had an impact. The win rates weren't as skewed because of just one or two long-time players or new players on any team could decide the match. I had good win rates as a freelancer which just doesn't happen on Crystal with 72-man. There was even a little time to teach someone who was new to PVP about what was happening.

Who is 24man's removal benefitting? I don't understand.

Please SE, bring (8v8v8) back!

im in a similar situation. I dont know what it was like before 5.1. I dont even know what its like now to be honest. I was never that interested in pvp. But the new gear sets look interesting and so i thought i would try. for the past 4 days i have tried after work until it was time to get some sleep. about two to three hours each day on work nights and seven and a half hours in que on my day off. i have not got a match yet. im set to freelance and doing the daily Challenge : Frontline. But im just not getting in. its frustrating because it seems as though this new gear is beyond my reach. I know its only glamour but it was interesting enough to get me to que. If only to give it a shot. But if there are no matches to play when im able to play then I guess there not really worth doing. Maybe they should add some other way to earn these rewards. Edit: I failed to mention, im 3rd shift as well and my play time is early mornings and some late nights.

Bump. My playtime is mostly queuing now.

I think it's time we got some feedback from the community team regarding this issue.

End of garo and removal of 24s haha queues perma dead what a surprise

Help me finish this bottle of bourbon

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Originally Posted by Odessium

Bump. My playtime is mostly queuing now.

I think it's time we got some feedback from the community team regarding this issue.

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After reading Japanese die of official/non official discussion, I am starting to afraid that entire 24 men removal is for the sake of this new "Seal Rock 2.0". The map is obviously too big for 24 men; but since it is classified as "Frontline" they are enforcing 72 men so it can be part of map rotation. My speculation is they are worry if this mode will die on NA like Rival Wing because the mode is purely design based on Japanese team play meta. It is not something NA players going to enjoy for long.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

After reading Japanese die of official/non official discussion, I am starting to afraid that entire 24 men removal is for the sake of this new "Seal Rock 2.0". The map is obviously too big for 24 men; but since it is classified as "Frontline" they are enforcing 72 men so it can be part of map rotation. My speculation is they are worry if this mode will die on NA like Rival Wing because the mode is purely design based on Japanese team play meta. It is not something NA players going to enjoy for long.

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So if I read this correct. They built an even larger map because less then half the players (generous amount) wanted larger. They had a complete fail from designing another mode RW for that group of players. So their plan is to completely drive another mode into the ground. So again that half of the player base is happy.



This made me so sad, I am starting to remember why I stopped playing this game for two years. Weird player base that sends gifts to devs and devs who think they are so special that they don't have to care about half the players. I would hope that they have a decent plan. This is clearly not the same group that helped rebuild 1.0. It is more of the group who can't count how many expansions they sold and how many story instances they put into 4.0.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

After reading Japanese die of official/non official discussion, I am starting to afraid that entire 24 men removal is for the sake of this new "Seal Rock 2.0". The map is obviously too big for 24 men; but since it is classified as "Frontline" they are enforcing 72 men so it can be part of map rotation. My speculation is they are worry if this mode will die on NA like Rival Wing because the mode is purely design based on Japanese team play meta. It is not something NA players going to enjoy for long.

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The 5.15 patch notes are out and there's no mentioning of 24 man being added back or PvP job balancing. I feel like our feedback threads are pretty pointless if no one bothers to acknowledge them.

I'd like 8v8v8 to return just because smaller, more strategic PvP is more fun for me.

Honestly I want them to make smaller modes in general. What about an 8v8 rival wings? Small enough for each player to have a big impact but large enough that the map design does actually have to change. One light party for each lane. Balance can tip for a team in an instant. Team comp matters more. Having to divide attention between opponents and minions becomes costly.

But yea I'm pretty sure no one cares what we say on the forums as far as design or gameplay feedback. Especially for PvP. Not enough of our playerbase ever cared about it enough for anyone to think giving a shit now would make a difference.

New notes "play as a group". Unless they rebalanced kill points all NA are going to do is farm kills. People are getting 20+ kills multiples are getting 10+ what the hell is the point of objectives then.

https://i.imgur.com/Yj3nh4K.png

Barely the second day of Naadam's release and already there's no pops during off-peak hours.
(I got DC'd in the middle of the queue so at the moment it's actually ~3 hours in queue and counting)

Yeah, I had a wait around 190m yesterday, but at least I'm getting them like two or three times a day... unlike zero a week before. Although, I'm sure this will only last a week or two. Then nothing again... the 72 person requirement has totally ruined PvP for me personally. I used to really enjoy it, but I don't think SE is going to do anything unless people make more of a stink about it. It really is sad though, I really used to enjoy pvp myself. At the very minimum they should add another event for PvP similar maybe to Garo, however, I won't hold my breath. I just hope they will see reason and return 24 player pvp... if you don't play at prime time then screw you I guess? Sigh... :(

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Originally Posted by melonpatch

https://i.imgur.com/Yj3nh4K.png

Barely the second day of Naadam's release and already there's no pops during off-peak hours.
(I got DC'd in the middle of the queue so at the moment it's actually ~3 hours in queue and counting)

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I get the impression they want to design future maps around 72man only, and that is why we lost 24man.

Without really taking into account the mode simply isn't active enough to push that. Was sort of like when we lost 10man raiding in WoW and got told "20man for hardest difficulty or nothing". It spectacularly managed to kill off a fair portion of "niche" guilds in the process (including the best raiding guild - Paragon). I could only reliably raid at super late night times (like past 11pm GMT, the "meta" raiding hours were between 6 and 10:30pm for almost every guild). 10man was good because there were a boatload of really good 10man guilds that raided late nights. After the 20man change, maintaining a 20man roster of people who were good and genuinely wanted to raid those hours became impossible, and from around 15 late night guilds, they all merged in the longrun into like 3, then 2, then finally - none.

I guess the dream of going back to 24 man games is dead? Main reason I'm not playing FFXIV anymore for more than a few minutes at a time, mainly just to talk to friends now. PvP was my favorite end-game activity and now that I can't play it at all more or less because I don't play during prime time hours... I'm pretty much just using the game to talk to old friends and maybe go on an occasional hunt train or two. I'd come back to playing full time in an instant if they restored 24 player pvp and probably would start doing other things in game too... like raids etc... I just am so bummed by this, I don't feel like playing much anymore. Oh well... I don't think anyone even cares anymore. I guess PvP is really only a prime time only event now. You can't even find a game for a 4v4 feast game, that's pretty sad. Oh well... time to play Diablo 3 :)

And I've finished leveling all the jobs to 80, and several crafters/gatherers too... so nothing else to do really.

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Originally Posted by Kaelia

I guess the dream of going back to 24 man games is dead?

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I wouldn't call it dead, I think there's always a chance we'll get it back.

But anytime soon? Always a question. Also Feast queues aren't great atm, but there's definitely no way you "can't" find a game, my main's got 452~ as it is.