The differences between ENG and JP (Spoilers)

I suppose this could be under lore (since it affects it) unless I missed the localization sub forum.

Anyhow. Koji. Pls.

I like seeing kind translators notes to compare JP to NA and so forth. And I've noticed that German tends to be more relative to Japanese, in terms of accuracy.

So why is it that English is seemingly always so cold and distant?

I know some expressions or comedic intent wouldn't pass through either audience. But what was so lost in translation with Y'shtola's "Sure is tough being loved from various different directions" vs "Your followers await your divine judgement."

https://i.imgur.com/ZJ1vwvB.jpg

Is it because of the debates of Alisae's age? Is it not to offend anyone? I would like a straight answer. I am aware that in the process, it's translated back and forth to make sure it makes sense as well as the intent being the same, but I feel like Estenien's "Hmph" and other actually different lines are losing said intent.

I think part of it is that the Warrior of Light being a primal has been a (incorrect) theory for a while on the English-speaking side of things. So seeing that fandom theory being used as a joke in-game is funny. Even more so from Y'shtola who isn't known for having a sense of humor.

That said... Localization and Translation aren't the same thing. And it's not like any plot-relevant information is being lost here by changing it. If was like... something to do with how souls worked and how the Scions are getting home, then that'd be bad. But it's not.

Here to confirm that German followed the Japanese direction again in that case.

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Originally Posted by Gula

I suppose this could be under lore (since it affects it) unless I missed the localization sub forum.

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The localization sub forum does exist here.

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Originally Posted by Gula

I know some expressions or comedic intent wouldn't pass through either audience. But what was so lost in translation with Y'shtola's "Sure is tough being loved from various different directions" vs "Your followers await your divine judgement."

https://i.imgur.com/ZJ1vwvB.jpg

Is it because of the debates of Alisae's age? Is it not to offend anyone? I would like a straight answer. I am aware that in the process, it's translated back and forth to make sure it makes sense as well as the intent being the same, but I feel like Estenien's "Hmph" and other actually different lines are losing said intent.

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I think the general idea of "There is enough thirst in this room to drain the Ruby Sea" was still conveyed by her words.

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Originally Posted by Naria

The localization sub forum does exist here.

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Thanks. Hopefully a mod will move it. Maybe.

I saw this one making the rounds on Twitter and it kinda irked me, to be honest. Comparisons between the client languages are always presented without the surrounding context, and do not take into account how those characters have behaved in that client language for the last nine years. And that's assuming the person complaining has good reading comprehension of the gestalt of the scene in the first place which is, across that nigh-decade...let's call it "inconsistent".

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G'raha Tia
I would not soon throw my life away, not after the length you and yours went to save it. And so long as I breathe, I will spare no effort to see you safely home. But, should all else fail, and your lives be at stake, there remains one sure method.

[Alisaie walks forward and flicks G'raha in the forehead]

G'raha Tia
OW! What was that for!?

Alisaie
How can you even entertain such thoughts!? You owe your life to the Warrior of Light and you don't get to die unless they say so!

Y'shtola
[smirks] Your followers await your divine judgement.

[Everyone freezes and looks at her, shocked and embarrassed]

Y'shtola
[laughing] If the two of you are finished, perhaps we could return to our discussion?

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The entire point of the conversation to find new ideas for getting everyone home. G'raha backslides into sacrificing himself again, which everyone has already taken off the table. But he cares about and admires the Warrior of Light that much. Alisaie pounces on it because she, on the other hand, cares about and adores the Warrior of Light so much that she finds their time, effort, and friendship so valuable that for G'raha think so little of his own life is ungrateful - immoral, even. But she's Alisaie so her phrasing is clumsy.

Y'shtola realizes that they've gone off the rails; these are outdated, unhelpful, emotionally-charged conversation points. She's deliberately cutting to the quick by kicking them in the shins to interrupt it - highlighting that they're putting the Warrior of Light on a pedestal they never asked to stand on.

That's what she does: deadpan humor that goes for the jugular. She's spent nine years in the English client as someone who keeps a steely, professional persona that she uses as a crutch even in social situations. She spent her entire adolescence in a cave alone with a cantankerous old mage; her social skills suck. She doesn't know what to do without her professionalized scripts.

We've seen her slowly come out of her shell over these nine years, and usually it manifests as deadpan jokes that cut deep and reveal just how much she's paying attention, just how well she knows her companions, and just how much she actually cares.

In Japanese, it's "Well, clearly they're both in love with you." The English client also makes subtle, [What if G'raha's admiration is also love? / What if Alisaie's adoration is also love?] nods, but it walks a tightrope with it because the story is whatever you want it to be. Every player has to be able to say, "Alisaie is in love with me, G'raha's just a sappy friend." or "G'raha's in love with me, Alisaie's just an overzealous kid." or "They've both got crushes but I'm out."

But the scene is about G'raha killing himself for the good of the Warrior of Light vs. Alisaie declaring that he doesn't get to die until the Warrior of Light says so. The're both being naive about a grave matter and Y'shtola is chiding them for it by pointing out that they're treating the Warrior of Light like a god who need only speak one word to arbitrate whether G'raha Tia is to live or die to their benefit.

How is this at all weird or inconsistent? That's the Y'shtola we've known all along. It's enough to say, "I think the way Japanese has portrayed her all these years resonates with me better." without attacking the localization team using cherry-picked one-liners to prop up your case on the shock of seeing how the butterfly effect has caused context to diverge far enough that one line's intent is manifested through totally different presentations.

The intent was the same in every language: Y'shtola says something deeply accurate and personal to shock them out of their naivete and get the conversation moving.

I think the line was fine personally. And it conveys the same idea (that Graha and Alisaie are both fanboying or more pretty hard about the WoL).

Personally the line felt very off to me when I first heard it, enough that I paused to scroll up to make sure I didn't accidentally skip dialog between, so I'm glad to hear there are alternate versions that make more sense to me (at least contextually). It just didn't seem like it followed what was going on and was more of an abrupt "let's wrap this up" conversation stopper.

Thank you for sharing the translation. To me it sounds like something she could have said in EN with a bit of re-phrasing, to be more appropriate for the conversation they were having.

Edit: after talking with a friend, I think part of why this specific line was so jarring for me at the time was because it didn't match the cinematography of the scene (and knowing the original dialog now, I understand why it was storyboarded that way). The moods hit very differently for me and took me out of it for a bit.

Since this is my first post on here i dont quite know how this works yet, but I hope it's ok.

So I think that Anonymoose has made a very good point about this particular scene and the localizations in general.
As I usually play the game in german and then rewatch the cutscenes with english dubs I noticed that the english localization is often more vague about certain things. I don't rewatch everything, so i could be wrong though.

But this thread reminded me of an earlier scene (after the level 71 dungeon) that seems to be handled in a similar way as this one.
Alisae basically asks the Crystal Exarch why he has taken the whole saving the world thing upon himself, and his answer is completely different depending on the language:
ENG: "There are things we can ill afford to lose. I have found I could have a hand in preserving them." or something along those lines.
GER: "There's someone I want to save. This person meant... she means so much to me that I'm willing to save the world for her sake."

I don't know if I'm reading too much into it, or something is going over my head since english isn't my first language, but the implications seem completely different. And Raha is a relatively new character (i know he was introduced 4 years ago, but he was only with us a short time and has changed a lot since then), so I don't understand the reason for this change at all unlike with Y'Shtola.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

our god has spoken.

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Thank god you watch these like you do. I dont think it could of been said any better.

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I don't know if I'm reading too much into it, or something is going over my head since english isn't my first language, but the implications seem completely different.

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That tends to happen if you put specific lines in a vacuum, but the whole result is still the same. You are given that exact impression about G'raha in English as well. While it will likely never be officially stated (leaving it up to the players), it is heavily hinted that both G'raha and Alisae are fangirling all over you. You don't need X line in Y amount of different languages to be identical to see this.

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Originally Posted by Gula

I suppose this could be under lore (since it affects it) unless I missed the localization sub forum.

Anyhow. Koji. Pls.

I like seeing kind translators notes to compare JP to NA and so forth. And I've noticed that German tends to be more relative to Japanese, in terms of accuracy.

So why is it that English is seemingly always so cold and distant?

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Sorry for resurrecting an old-ish post but I only finished the msq now.
I play with Japanese audio and English subs. I don't really understand Japanese sadly, but I noticed for example (for the cold and distant thing) how in Japanese characters very often say thanks, while in the English version of that dialogue they never do.
And I also noticed the Estenien's "Hmph" while in Japanese it was a very long sentence and that made me sad. By chance, do you know waht the original said? I'm very curious.

As for the Alisae's thing, I guess it delivers more or less the same intent.
Overall I hate localizations as a lot always changes, but sadly I have to do with that. And I also don't understand German well, so I can't even switch to that for subs.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

Overall I hate localizations as a lot always changes, but sadly I have to do with that. And I also don't understand German well, so I can't even switch to that for subs.

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Localization=/= Translation though. Things can be localized in the same language, based on region an dialect too. Some of the regional and dialectical differences in Japan are so vast at times, they are almost like different languages.

While I wont state that all localizations are great, to hate something just because it's not in its "native" state is a bit outdated. And most people only "dislike" the localized version, because they think they are missing something from the "original". Understanding the nuances of your native language is what makes it boring, and makes people think the translation sucks and the original is "better". Besides, what if people didn't know a different version existed, like young children, would the localized version still be disliked?

Also to clarify with 14. It is Localized, but not like there is a "final product" and then the other versions are created around that. All 4 versions of the game are created in tandum, with different parts being created in one language first then translated into the other 3. The titles for instance, I believe are created in Englush first, then adjusted to fit the needs of the other languages as is required.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

While I wont state that all localizations are great, to hate something just because it's not in its "native" state is a bit outdated. And most people only "dislike" the localized version, because they think they are missing something from the "original". Understanding the nuances of your native language is what makes it boring, and makes people think the translation sucks and the original is "better". Besides, what if people didn't know a different version existed, like young children, would the localized version still be disliked?
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Yes, I know localization is different,that's why I said localization. Because it is rewriting, though translating also is to a certain extent.
And no, none of the languages offered by the game is my native language, I don't know why you would even assume that, so that's not a factor. If anything it's even more annoying having to read stuff in a language that's neither the original nor your own.
Nothing outdated about not liking things that aren't in their original language. It also applies to books, films, etc. It's pretty normal to want to see/hear/read something in the way it was meant to be to begin with, and not how someone else had to change it to adapt it to another language/culture (which again, it's also likely not to even be your own).

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Originally Posted by Gula

"Sure is tough being loved from various different directions" vs "Your followers await your divine judgement."

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I read both as sarcastic. The second points out 'the quaint burdens of being worshipped' just as clearly as the first.

But, it's always fun to see how that point was brought across. That's why I play an alt each in Japanese and English (and sometimes German or French when I have a friend around to clarify terms I can't just look up).

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

And I also noticed the Estenien's "Hmph" while in Japanese it was a very long sentence and that made me sad. By chance, do you know waht the original said? I'm very curious.

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Which cutscene are you referring to?

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Originally Posted by RoseSymphony

Which cutscene are you referring to?

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I don't remember it exactly, it was one of those infiltration ones. But since OP mentioned it as well...