How does everyone feel about the PvP changes?

I know it's early, but just based on maybe duels and test dummy, how does everyone feel about the PvP changes?

Here's some feedback from me for Warriors

Infuriate and Inner Chaos/Chaotic Cyclone

I feel sorta vindicated complaining about infuriate/ic and how it was weird that RAGE SPENDERS contributed so much to RAGE GENERATION, and how that made Stormspath pretty much obsolete.

IC/Chaotic Cyclone no longer generates 25 rage - and this is a GREAT thing. There's actually opportunity in the rotation to use Stormspath. And Stormspath has been buffed 2 ways. One, its potency was straight increased, and two, IC/Chaotic Cyclone grants a dps buff - Wars get their dps buff back, yay!

DPS Buff is back! (Old Eye/Butcher's Block Buff)

Sort of! It's attached to Inner Chaos/Chaotic Cyclone now. Which I REALLY appreciate. Although I liked not having a buff and therefore a lower ramp up that was possible previously, I find it really cool that by attaching a dps buff to Inner Chaos/Chaotic Cyclone, it PREVENTS double spamming the actions whenever you have the Infuriate charges to do so.

This makes InnerChaos/Chaotic Cyclone feel more measured. Less spammy. Also, a buff to keep track of actually makes things a bit more interesting. That it buffs healing from Stormspath and Mythril Tempest is also great.

Onslaught No Longer Tied to Stun

Another great improvement. I brought this up in a previous post. Seems like SE and I see eye to eye on this stuff = D

They took the stun off Onslaught and gave all tanks Low Blow. This is terrific. I can gap close when I want to gap close and stun when I want to stun. This is how it should be! Different effects shouldn't be crammed together into single actions, because it creates the sort of forced choices that aren't fun. Separating these two actions give Wars what other tanks already had, freedom to choose between what should have always been two actions.

Steel Cyclone is back baby! AOE Combo

This is probably my second favorite change after the Infuriate/IC thing. They gave all tanks an AOE combo. And wars get to combo Steel Cyclone from Mythril Tempest. This is beautiful. I love it. I wish I could do this in PvE!

And it heals! And it benefits from IC/Chaotic Cyclone dps buff! And it generates in two global cooldowns the same amount of rage as the Stormspath combo. Cool!

Inner Release cooldown reduced to 45 Secs

This is a great QOL change. Lines up with Holmgang. I'll take it!

Tomahawk Generates Rage

Another awesome change. I think this is the next best thing to making Onslaught free of rage cost. At least against ranged fighters, Warriors can now generate rage TO THEN use Onslaught to gap close.

Suggestions for Still Existing Issues - Some things I think should still be looked at...

I really like the changes above. I really do, but here are just a few things I think SE should still take a look at.

Nascent Flash still requires a target - Still a huge issue

I spent like 20 minutes dueling a paladin. I don't mean to drag another job into the discussion or say balance should be around 1v1's, but paladin healing and mitigation is nuts and leagues beyond Warrior IF nascent flash is not useable. I mean holy spirit heal is just crazy, but, I bet the discrepancy between Paladin and Warrior self-sustain would not be as wide as it is if NAscent Flash did not have a party target requirement and warriors had access to it at all times.

The problem partly is that Nascent flash, like the older version of Onslaught, crams two effects into a single button and forces the player to choose one benefit over another. What I mean is, with Onslaught for example, there are times when you want to gap close and there are times when you want to stun. By having both be part of one action, you force the player to use Onslaught when they want to stun, and thereby force them to forego the option to gap close for the remainder of the cooldown window because they wanted to stun... No other tank had to forego the benefit of gap closing IN ORDER to stun. Glad they fixed this.

But this sort of 2-in-1 cramming and forced choices still exists with Nascent Flash.

With Nascent Flash, sometimes the player just wants to heal himself, and his party member doesn't necessarily need healing, but the player has to forego the option of healing his party member for the duration of the cooldown if he chooses to use Nascent Flash for self-healing purposes now. And on the flip side, if a party member needs healing and the Warrior doesn't, he foregoes the benefit of self-healing in order to heal a party member.

What further complicates things with Nascent Flash is that the focus appears to be FOR PARTY SUPPORT. It appears that the primary purpose of Nascent Flash is like Intervention for Paladins. It's meant to save a single party member if he or she is in danger.

But with Nascent Flash's self-sustain purpose TIED TO the the party-support purpose, it creates the ridiculous situation where the warrior is UNABLE TO HEAL HIMSELF BECAUSE HE IS UNABLE TO HEAL SOMEONE ELSE WHO MAY OR MAY NOT NEED TO BE HEALED.

This is ridiculous. I'm sure there are some technical issues which make splitting up the action difficult or some other considerations like button bloat.

But please, please, SPLIT NASCENT FLASH into nascent flash and nascent glint IF you (SE) are unwilling or unable to make nascent flash self-targettable or just have the self-healing portion of the action useable without a target.

The improvements allowing for stormspath to be used in a rotation is great, and the healing pots are great (but all tanks get them), but Nascent Flash needs to still be split from Nascent Glint.

Or, how's this, add Equilibrium and make it share a cooldown with Nascent Flash. Adjust Equilibriums heal accordingly for balance and there - band aid fix which I'm fine with for pvp.

Conclusion

Most of what I hoped would change for war did change. It's like SE read my mind! So, overall I'm happy with the changes Warriors got.

The only real complaint I have left is Nascent Flash requiring a target. Split its self-healing effect from its party-healing effect. Ideally, I would like to have Nascent Flash self-healing effect be useable when no target is selected. If that is not possible, split the action in two. Have a separate button for Nascent Flash and Nascent Glint.

That is all.

I haven't really had time to test them yet and it's too early for training q pops and so I'm not going to write as much as you have until I have done (probably within next few days).

But I already really like the direction they took.

For GNB they took out D&F and instead gave our Burst Strike/Fated Circle stack generation which reduces our gcd time.

They did nerf our Wicked Talon combo (both in potency and the 100% heal effect) however gave us the skill speed to close the gap as well as making BS/FC generate HP.


I've noticed between all of the jobs there was one big theme of AOE. All the tanks have AOE shields, AOE Combos, and Reprisal now being an AOE in PVP too. Healers have AOE heals and DPS have more AOE options.

I'm sure this is really going to hammer frontlines hard as it's always a cluster of people fighting and people can just start mowing down, but I'm interested to see it in Feast since WAR was the real AOE king in the mode and it'll be interesting seeing these jobs play with more options.

I need to test it out but I'm very interested.

War Self Healing in Solo Situations Balanced WITHOUT Nascent Flash in Mind? War is a Charging Bull?

I just did some rough math, and looked over the DRK changes, it appears that War and Dark design are pretty similar, and especially with respect to self-heals. It seems that they want Wars/Darks to heal from combos as opposed to how PLD heals from its nuke/Holy Spirit.

With the dramatic potency buff to Onslaught (from 600 to 1000 - making it more rage efficient in terms of raw potency per rage/beast point), I wonder if the developers envision Wars, in solo situations, opting for Onslaught to dump rage over Fell Cleave where possible to MAXIMIZE HEALS from Stormspath (because Onslaught saves a GCD). It is not as bad as a DPS nerf as it would have been previously to pick Onslaught over Fell Cleave.

I will let someone else crunch the numbers, but if this is true, I really find this cool/interesting as it allows for different playstyles/depth depending on party/solo situations.

Gonna test it out more = D

The changes are well and good for frontlines, but they threw out any 4vs4 balance. I'd have to guess they're going to remove feast entirely soon, unless they overhaul skills again for the season.

Ranged magic classes lost their burst for more aoe, melee classes became juggernauts of healing and killing, healers are near unkillable with 3 instant self heals and purify.

But yeah in terms of frontlines, a big group of ranged dps is going to do so much aoe damage that with a big enough group they should melt down enemy groups; melee will be less prone to getting blown up when they try and hit anyone or stray from their big group, everyone having sprint again is great, faster mount speed in frontlines is good.

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Originally Posted by ArianneMartellMateus

everyone having sprint again is great, faster mount speed in frontlines is good.

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Oh thank gods for this. I was sick of dps running off, and being unable to sprint after them to heal them.

New abilities good. Loss of 24-mans bad. As far as PVP updates go, this is one of the less upsetting.

I like these changes, it takes more skill to be good now instead of picking right job.

Its a STEP in the right direction even tho some jobs now feel like completely different things when switching from pve to pvp. For Example: playing Sams basic Combo feels like you are doing something wrong the entire time cause it uses only the latter parts of the basic PvE Combo and its very unsettling to play? At least for my humble self. Gunbreaker now feels like a "slow" Monk in PvP, keep those stacks up mate!

Didnt have much chance to test anything else yet but in my humble opinion its going to be slightly better than what we had before. My Top changes are that Bolt and Retaliation are back for Tanks mostly for FL purposes (I left rated-Feast behind after they made it a simple grindfest in Stormblood). Its fun to go in with defensive CD's, a Healermate at your back and raining damagenumbers all across the screen due to people mindlessly hitting you in Retaliation.

Even tho i like some of the changes especially WHM/SCH being usable again, it doesn't change the fact that they made changes with only FL in mind without thinking one bit the consequences they gonna have on feast balance.

In conclusion i liked the BH/healer re-balance/premade limit.
But i'm pretty sure feast is gonna be a complete mess for the time being.

Dueled a gunbreaker. Got blown to shreds. Nascent Flash party target requirement is so bad. Imagine a paladin not being able to use clemency to heal himself because there aren't any party members close by. Or having to summon a chocobo so he can heal himself with clemency.

I don't know why they did this. If clemency, aurora, tbn, and intervention can be used without a party target required, WHY PLACE IT ON NASCENT FLASH?

I. Just. Don't. Get. It.

I hate it so much. I don't even want wars to be "better" than other tanks, I just want to be able to use my actions when I want to use them without restrictions other tanks are not subject to.

It's been four months and this annoying, and unnecessary restriction is still here. Why?!

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Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

I don't know why they did this. If clemency, aurora, tbn, and intervention can be used without a party target required, WHY PLACE IT ON NASCENT FLASH?

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I do not think they're ever going to balance around dueling. Also no, we cannot use Intervention on ourselves. Cover was useless without a party also so we've always been down an ability there.

I've not tried frontlines yet but it's pretty obvious all the balance was based on that. I play the feast mostly and its pretty wild. You can easily stack damage multipliers up to the point the damage is completely unhealable and there's very little counter play. With these multis a monk alone can just bolt in and kill a healer/rdps in ~3gcds or less, and this is ignoring the fact that we can no longer mitigate melee LB. If they insist on letting melee dps have feint and crazy potency then the least they could do is give tanks all their CC back so we could actually do something about it. But it's still pretty early on and having to relearn all the healers takes time.

Sch is better and him happy, but I don't think it was enough to save the class.
Also silence exists.

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Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

I. Just. Don't. Get. It.

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This patch they are balance each job with mass PvP scale in mind. It is no longer balance around the Feast in which it is good.

By saying this, Warrior is really on top of it at mass scale PvP. If you don’t get this, you are probably unlike to “truly” recognize that no game will balance base on 1 v 1

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Originally Posted by Atreus

I do not think they're ever going to balance around dueling. Also no, we cannot use Intervention on ourselves. Cover was useless without a party also so we've always been down an ability there.

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Thanks for the clarification on intervention. Just so i have my facts straight, when using aurora on self, does it grant the 2000 pot bubble as well?