SCH nerfed in 5.1

If I'm understanding this right, you can only use Consolation once per Seraph Summon.

Consolation Recast time has been increased from 20 to 30 seconds.

Wonder what the thought proccess was behind this?

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

If I'm understanding this right, you can only use Consolation once per Seraph Summon.

Consolation Recast time has been increased from 20 to 30 seconds.

Wonder what the thought proccess was behind this?

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As far as I know, we still have the 2 charges of consolation. The 30 seconds is an unessecary fix to try to make sure people dont get a 3rd charge.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

As far as I know, we still have the 2 charges of consolation. The 30 seconds is an unessecary fix to try to make sure people dont get a 3rd charge.

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Which clearly shows they don't understand the ghosting issue. I'm more concerned with wether or not we'll be able to queue consolation in the first two seconds.

This change really makes no sense unless maybe we can control the fairy's first seraphic veil by having a target when we call her out. But I think that's beyond SE's comprehension of the sch class at this point.

Even if we can queue consolation during the 2 sec action penalty it still means we have to adjust for the extra 2 seconds it would take consolation to apply. This is less user friendly no matter how you look at it. Why would you make a barrier healer wait to apply a barrier? I get that the playstyle is supposed to be preemptive but no other class has to wait just to look at an ability happen. Why is Seraph Summon animation so important that I have to wait to use her skills. Demi Bahamut gets an instant Wyrm Wave on Summon in the same patch that we get a pause button for our Cap Stone ability. This smells retarded.

They stated they'd make it more user friendly, but arbitrarily adding a delay strikes me as less user friendly, it's not like its a cast either. This kinda thing feels like a sticking plaster for a bug.

And nothing about the SCH update suggests anything about making faeries more user friendly.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

They stated they'd make it more user friendly, but arbitrarily adding a delay strikes me as less user friendly, it's not like its a cast either. This kinda thing feels like a sticking plaster for a bug.

And nothing about the SCH update suggests anything about making faeries more user friendly.

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I feel like the change that was intended for that purpose was the one where setting your pet to steady would disable it casting Embrace/Seraphic Veil. Since alot of the time ghosting is caused by the pet being commanded mid-embrace. While it does seem nice to have some level of control over embrace again. I can completely understand if people dont feel its enough.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

I feel like the change that was intended for that purpose was the one where setting your pet to steady would disable it casting Embrace/Seraphic Veil. Since alot of the time ghosting is caused by the pet being commanded mid-embrace. While it does seem nice to have some level of control over embrace again. I can completely understand if people dont feel its enough.

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Aye, that's what I mean by sticking plaster, I expect that's what it was intended for. I hope it means they mean to find a better solution in the future. I'll see how it compares to Seraph ghosting when it comes out, because in fairness both are a problem, it's a question of what's less of a problem. If it is meant as a sticking plaster then they make a fix in the future rather than this being the fix.

This isn't a nerf. This is a slight 2s duration buff wrapped in a very oddly worded change that merely adds 2 seconds to Seraph to allow for dealing with the odd "can't immediately cast anything while summoned" thing we've had with her. The Consolation being from 20s to 30s is just as odd, considering I never saw anybody able to get 3 uses of it.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

This isn't a nerf. This is a slight 2s duration buff wrapped in a very oddly worded change that merely adds 2 seconds to Seraph to allow for dealing with the odd "can't immediately cast anything while summoned" thing we've had with her. The Consolation being from 20s to 30s is just as odd, considering I never saw anybody able to get 3 uses of it.

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So instead of fixing it so Seraph is able to cast immediately after being summoned they instead added a 2 second delay to being able to use her skills? Forgive me but I fail to see how that is a buff. If anything, at best I would consider that breaking even. It's like if someone put 10 dollars into my bank account vs. putting 12 dollars in my account with a 2 dollar service fee. At the end of the day I'm left with the same amount of money.

Honestly I would consider it a nerf since that's 2 seconds I would be spamming to try to get the ability to activate. When I was actively playing scholar I would either; wait to see what the enemy was casting so I could mitigate it or look for particular markers to mitigate. With this 2 second delay it would be uncomfortable to try to line these up with raid AoE damage.

I wish Disspation got this not the Seraph which i didnt really have problems with. Dissipation 'killing' the fairy b4 she casts Whispering Dawn etc (tho still putting them on cd) is soooo annoying.
Otherwise, this patch didnt really move us anywhere, and all our collective issues are still mounting lol. Woo

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Originally Posted by vtndll

So instead of fixing it so Seraph is able to cast immediately after being summoned they instead added a 2 second delay to being able to use her skills? Forgive me but I fail to see how that is a buff. If anything, at best I would consider that breaking even. It's like if someone put 10 dollars into my bank account vs. putting 12 dollars in my account with a 2 dollar service fee. At the end of the day I'm left with the same amount of money.

Honestly I would consider it a nerf since that's 2 seconds I would be spamming to try to get the ability to activate. When I was actively playing scholar I would either; wait to see what the enemy was casting so I could mitigate it or look for particular markers to mitigate. With this 2 second delay it would be uncomfortable to try to line these up with raid AoE damage.

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We had 18 seconds of time with it out before. It's now up to 20. It's a buff, though again, really oddly worded and done.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

We had 18 seconds of time with it out before. It's now up to 20. It's a buff, though again, really oddly worded and done.

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Honestly, the confusing thing to me is...It looks like they changed Bahamut Egi to work the instant it is summoned...But we get this weird way of doing it.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Honestly, the confusing thing to me is...It looks like they changed Bahamut Egi to work the instant it is summoned...But we get this weird way of doing it.

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That's what I'm trying to figure out too. I understood their intent behind the Seraph changes...but then you immediately look at Bahamut's changes and wonder why the hell they can't get Seraph to work like that.

They're giving Seraph what they did with the Automaton Queen. The MCH rook pre-80 has a 15s duration and starts doing its thing right away. The upgraded version Automaton Queen at level 80 has a longer summoning animation (5s) and they increased the duration of the summon to 20s to account for it. Same duration in the end.

I expected nothing new for SCH at 5.1 so it doesn't surprise me. SE looks so lost with healers jobs, it's just borring to hope something.

Not that these things are needed, since SCH isn't in a "bad" place per SE, but they didn't seem to address the 3 main "issues"/requests. Fey Blessings CD, Summon Seraphs CD and how 3 of our capstone skills all fight one another: Dissipation, Fey Union, and Summon Seraph. I mean it's not so much to ask for, but similar to WHM, I can see why we didn't get big changes, yet.

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Originally Posted by Archeros

I wish Disspation got this not the Seraph which i didnt really have problems with. Dissipation 'killing' the fairy b4 she casts Whispering Dawn etc (tho still putting them on cd) is soooo annoying.
Otherwise, this patch didnt really move us anywhere, and all our collective issues are still mounting lol. Woo

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From the change log this doesn’t fix any of the ghosting abilities. Not for seraph either. I think you’re misunderstanding.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

That's what I'm trying to figure out too. I understood their intent behind the Seraph changes...but then you immediately look at Bahamut's changes and wonder why the hell they can't get Seraph to work like that.

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Because whoever is in charge of the healers has no idea what they're doing and the teams clearly don't talk to each other.

I hope there are some hidden changes on the back end that allow Seraph to cast in her last four seconds and keep her from ghosting abilities during the transition in and out now. Maybe it just didn't warrant being placed in the patch notes. We can hope right?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

That's what I'm trying to figure out too. I understood their intent behind the Seraph changes...but then you immediately look at Bahamut's changes and wonder why the hell they can't get Seraph to work like that.

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I'd imagine it's because Wyrmwave is tied to SMN casting spells. Summoning Bahamut doesn't force the GCD, so SMN could essentially queue up either Ruin 3 or Outburst to be cast as soon as the animation ends, but Bahamut would not Wyrmwave like this; now he will. Serpah isn't an offensive demi so they are not going to work exactly the same way. The way they worked it and worded it is still odd though. However, what is really weird is that Consolation has charges in the first place when it is essentially the Akh Morn/Revelation ability for Seraph.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

We had 18 seconds of time with it out before. It's now up to 20. It's a buff, though again, really oddly worded and done.

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We had 20s with her before. The only difference is that sometimes consolation would be delayed because she casted veil when she popped up. Now consolation will always be delayed. In addition to that the veil delayed consolation case can still happen after those 2s (if you don't cast consolation in that 2s window which is a case that can happen when you don't double weave seraph and consolation together).

In this new instance we do get 2s back at the end but honestly we never needed those 2s anyways because of ghosting. I personally give up on any skills under the last 5s of seraph being around. And if I use a seraph skill it's usually times with way more leeway than the additional 2s we'll be getting.

In addition to this, all rotations that required consolation up as soon as seraph was cast (looking at you titan) might need change.

Honestly on a class were pet delays are the bane of our existence I just don't understand why they would add even more delays without some major upside which I have yet to see. Hopefully this change makes sense once the patch hits.

Pets have and still somewhat are clunky, and adding a delay to Seraph which eliminates the ability to pop it and get a quick burst heal out are completely unnecessary. I don't understand what is wrong with the devs - why can they never get anything right with healers? Nobody asked for this, or wanted it, or complained about it, and it wasn't needed at all. The only thing Seraph needed was to not disappear if you queue up your final Consolation near the tail end of her leaving, an actual QoL change or something. Even that or casting a Consolation interrupting a Veil cast and simply adding duration to her so she gets the interrupted cast off, or something like that to remove ghosting. Instead you turn an already clunky thing into something more clunky. ?????? Level 80 skill by the way.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

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Consolation isn't nerfed, the 30sec recast doesn't have an affect to seraph since summoning her is still a 2 min wait w/ 2 charges to use within 22sec of her up. It just....weird on them doing it that it just smh onto why. I wasn't really expecting them to mess with her, but more in thinking of making the faerie gauge much more useful as in reducing the CD of fey blessing to 40sec rather than 60sec so won't sit on it or buff fey union potency or something....

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Originally Posted by EchuKayu

Pets have and still somewhat are clunky, and adding a delay to Seraph which eliminates the ability to pop it and get a quick burst heal out are completely unnecessary. I don't understand what is wrong with the devs - why can they never get anything right with healers? Nobody asked for this, or wanted it, or complained about it, and it wasn't needed at all. The only thing Seraph needed was to not disappear if you queue up your final Consolation near the tail end of her leaving, an actual QoL change or something. Even that or casting a Consolation interrupting a Veil cast and simply adding duration to her so she gets the interrupted cast off, or something like that to remove ghosting. Instead you turn an already clunky thing into something more clunky. ?????? Level 80 skill by the way.

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Bah you know they took 4 years to "fix" Dissipation (and it still need improvements), nothing suprising here with Seraph.

I don't think it's so much a nerf. Here's what I see, the current summon animation lock for seraph is about 2 secs so they added 2 secs and locked it down to give the player the full 20secs. This seems like a bandaid fix, a real fix would be to change the actually animation but most likely they can't do something like that right now. As for consol, now the summon is 22secs but old consol is 20secs, so the bumped to 30secs so folks don't try server tick squeezing out a 3rd consol, you will still have 2 charge uses of consol.