How would they even make another healer job though?

I mean... we have one that regens, we've got one that shields, and we've got another one that can do either.

so what is the 4th healer even going to do? :v

Maybe a greater focus on AoE placement heals/ shields / buffs? If the next healer is geomancer, it could be like we are casting enchantments on the land itself. Think of those totems the enemies use in Wanderer's Palace (Hard).

I mean... the same thing can be said about tanks and dps? We have 4 flavors of melee dps, 3 flavors of physical ranged dps, 3 flavors of caster dps, and 4 flavors of tanks. What can adding another tank or dps do? Oh yeah. People that like to play tank or dps would have something to level and decide if they want to main it or not, so they might find a job they like to play more than their current one.

You really don’t need to troll healers. We get enough of it from SE in the form of dumbing down our dps rotations, homogenizing our jobs, and ignoring our pleas for changes during live letters.

SE already said they wont add any new healer until they find the balance they are looking for ,so this thread is useless.

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Originally Posted by Its_Elodie

You really don’t need to troll healers. We get enough of it from SE in the form of dumbing down our dps rotations, homogenizing our jobs, and ignoring our pleas for changes during live letters.

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also as its_elodie said, healers already have tons of issues cause of SE changes,there isn't any need to open an argument about it especially when there is such a thread about a 4th healer job wishlist in the healer role forum.

Fourth tank could heal through dealing damage.

Adding another healer would frankly be a dumb move. Everyone would be better off if they took all the ideas they may have from a new healer job and distribute those ideas to the current healers to help differentiate them.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

Adding another healer would frankly be a dumb move. Everyone would be better off if they took all the ideas they may have from a new healer job and distribute those ideas to the current healers to help differentiate them.

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You're probably right, but if there isn't a new healer introduced for the next expansion it's going to get really ugly around here and elsewhere. I'm expecting them to add one just to avoid backlash. The healers we currently have should obviously be addressed first though. There's a good many problems.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

SE already said they wont add any new healer until they find the balance they are looking for ,so this thread is useless.

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Why isn't this argument ever applied to tanks and DPS?

How about no new tanks and no new DPS until they're balanced?

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Originally Posted by Lacan

I mean... we have one that regens, we've got one that shields, and we've got another one that can do either.

so what is the 4th healer even going to do? :v

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Give me something akin to a Fistweaver from WoW and I will show you all day every day.

That was my jam.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Why isn't this argument ever applied to tanks and DPS?

How about no new tanks and no new DPS until they're balanced?

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ask yosida then cause thats what he claimed in one of his interviews as to why no 4th healer and his answer was cause of the unbalance the healers have.

SE has shot themselves hard in the foot, they don't add a 4th healer then it will be 3 full expansions without one and honestly way too long to not show they have no clue what to do, they do add one well it probably have the same sort of issues all healers are suffering from right now because they cannot put the hammer down, they either try to bash something in(SB lillies) or bash stuff out of place(pets/ast/dps side of healers) rather than taking the chisel like they use to do with HW.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

ask yosida then cause thats what he claimed in one of his interviews as to why no 4th healer and his answer was cause of the unbalance the healers have.

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Yep. My point is that it's a crappy excuse to exclude a role from any new jobs for 6 years. (Longer if no healers come in 6.0).


I mean, come on. The real reason was they wanted to focus their devs on DPS since that's what most people play, with a secondary allotment to tanks. Healers are niche and hard to market. The "We're going to focus on balancing the healers" line over the last two expacs has just been to soften the blow and make healers feel like they're not being neglected.

I'd like to heal my comrades by throwing potions at them.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'd like to heal my comrades by throwing potions at them.

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Chemist would be awesome.

SE's guide to making a healer job
Estimated time required: 2 expansions worth of development cycles
1) Compile n healers' abilities into a giant list
2) Throw out half of the list
3) Divide what's left n+1 ways

Please look forward to it.

There are so many flavors for healers left, it's not just about who shields and who regens but about HOW they do it.
Job mechanics and job gauges are the true flavor of jobs, not the shields or the regens.

Things like:
- totem healer, who places totems on the ground which have short durations and various effects, can be triggered manually like Earthly Star and/ or work automatically like SCH fairy while also having a base toolkit of ST/ AoE heals. Also a lot of room for raid support or debuffs
- melee healer, who relies on charging up its stronger heals with melee attacks and combos, probably with some dmg to heal conversion aswell while also having a baseline set of casted heals. Utilizing your combos properly is simply more effective compared to baseline [insert fancy name for Cure II/ Bene II equivalent] spam. Think of e.g. a melee attack that stacks a buff that can be consumed for a strong oGCD heal
- combo healer in general who is good at preparing heals and triggering them when needed, a bit like current Horoscope from AST. Baseline heals are probably a bit weaker than those of the other healers, because it relies on proper preparation. Another way would be to stack buffs by using attack skills. Say attack A stacks buff A, attack B stacks buff B etc. and one stack of A + B can be consumed to use heal X, A + C for heal Y etc, not unlike how Mudras can be combined. Obviously also complemented with casted heals so you always have a solid base.
- damage conversion healer who can be designed to either heal the party by applying buffs to them/ debuffs to the enemies so they heal themselves with attacks or who convert their own damage into healing or a bit of both. Obviously also needs also a toolkit of basic heals and since consistent healing is rarely needed, it could work in a way that overhealing gradually stacks a shield with a certain limit based on max HP.
- potion healer who relies on non-magical ways to heal (potions, salves etc.) and can both apply them to allies aswell as throw mixtures on the ground for certain effects. You can throw a potion at an ally for strong ST heal or throw it at the ground for AoE heal in an area. Both instant heal and regen effects are possible. Think of healing vapours.
You can even make them trigger on contact which would allow strategically placing them in certain spots beforehand and have players trigger them by walking close. Works in random content aswell because if you throw them at the tanks feets (or better yet, straight in his face), he obviously touches it right away

There a lot of possible concepts than can be adjusted to fit the game's design. Wether they rely on regens, shields or direct healing isn't the primary question. Two direct healers can play completely different.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Fourth tank could heal through dealing damage.

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Don't all of the tanks do that except for PLD who has an actual heal.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Don't all of the tanks do that except for PLD who has an actual heal.

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GNB does through its normal combo, though it's nothing major.

SE has designed themselves into a literal corner when it comes to healers and they probably have no idea what to do at this point.

I've lost all faith in them regarding healers.

And I've healed 2.0 to 5.0 and essentially gave it up.

But on topic:

1) SE bites the bullet and makes AST a shield or regen based healer and then makes the 4th healer the opposite. 2 shield based, 2 regen based. I mean double down on this. No more SCH with regens or WHM with shielding. A 4th healer would actually make it easier for them to do this as there would be a second option to chose from if you didn't like whm or sch.

2) Channel based healer, good to combo with regens ( the netcode is crap and this won't work).

3) Totem based with buffs, ala WoW Shaman

4) Mix based (think ninja but with heals). Again NIN mudra has sucked since implemented due to the netcode so this is out.

5) DPS based healing (Chloromancer from RIFT). You have some solid heals but a good chunk of your healing comes from damaging mobs. More support oriented.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Yep. My point is that it's a crappy excuse to exclude a role from any new jobs for 6 years. (Longer if no healers come in 6.0).

Healers are niche and hard to market. The "We're going to focus on balancing the healers" line over the last two expacs has just been to soften the blow and make healers feel like they're not being neglected.

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Yep, that's the reason their ffxiv "mascot" Y'shtola job changed from CNJ to BLM. You can't market healers.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

Adding another healer would frankly be a dumb move. Everyone would be better off if they took all the ideas they may have from a new healer job and distribute those ideas to the current healers to help differentiate them.

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So a whole role gets no fun new toys like everyone else? Where's the parity in that? One of the fun t hings about Final Fantasy XI and XIV is they add jobs. To ignore healers just because SE is inept at designing them. . . well I don't know if that's a game I want to play anymore because I love to heal. And if I'm not going to get new healers I have little to no incentive to play.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

ask yosida then cause thats what he claimed in one of his interviews as to why no 4th healer and his answer was cause of the unbalance the healers have.

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Do you think that healers need balancing first?

Healing is more than "Whos got A Regen/Shield/Buff" etc. Its also a matter of how those heals are delivered. Otherwise were essentially saying every single DPS job is just a straight up carbon copy of one another because they all predominately just do damage by using skills.

If youre gonna see another healer, itll probably be a hybrid healer, and will probably incorporate a system we havent seen yet. My personal thoughts would be a chemist equivilant, with a system of stocking heals as an expendable resource. That is you pre-create a bunch of heals and hold onto them and throw them out when needed. It may end up being a strong burst healer. Dunno how this would work out in the bigger picture but it might be interesting.

Withholding new features for a dream of perfect balance is something that will never come out as a net positive.

I honestly don't see this big problem with healers, i wish someone would tell me exactly what's wrong despite the damage output/rotation.



With that said, if they added chemist, for example, it could be a healer based on instant casts (maybe lower potency to make up for it) and therefore more mobile. I mean, it's not only about how the healing works, but how the spells are delivered. Different animations give a different feel to the jobs. Saying things like Scholar is both heals + shields is a reductive way to refer to the job. Scholar has an emphasis on the Fairy pet. That is it's fantasy and uniqueness. If you're gonna tell me that the Fey AoE heal is just the same as Medica from WHM, well in the end result it is, but the way it is achieved, isn't.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

Withholding new features for a dream of perfect balance is something that will never come out as a net positive.

I honestly don't see this big problem with healers, i wish someone would tell me exactly what's wrong despite the damage output/rotation.

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The true but facetious answer?

WHM: Nothing
SCH: Muh Green DPS!
AST: Muh useless fluff cards! (Oh I suppose I was undertuned at the start of 5.0, but who cares! I lost my worthless Bole card /cryface)

I think I got the gist of it.

A healer in this game, when you think about it, can be broken up into two main elements: a healing specialty, and a secondary feature.

Healing specialties simply refer to whatever "special effect" is tacked onto a portion of non-basic healing skills in a standard healing toolkit. This is pretty simple to spot via what kind of heals a particular healer job is known for, so HoTs for White Mage, shields for Scholar, and alternation (picking either HoTs or shields) for Astrologian. Typically, a healing specialty is the element which a healer job relies on to both perform its role and to stand out among others in this role. Other examples would include Delayed Heal Triggers like Excogitation, Escalation (heals leaving buffs increasing the amount those heals heal for), and even Periodic Absorption or "Shields over time".

Secondary features, on the other hand, are elements that are usually associated with damage dealt on some level or offering a degree of ease on healing to provide more damage as a healer, but are mainly designed with the purpose of keeping a healing job unique and at least somewhat interesting. For White Mage, this would be extra damage via spells and abilities such as Assize and Afflatus Misery (which I still prefer to call "the fart bomb"). With Scholar, its secondary feature is indirect healing in the form of its fairy, which despite seeming more like a healing feature, is intended to offer ease in healing for the job to do more damage with its basic damage toolkit. Then there is Astrologian, who has its card system that allows for (at least in theory) a means of increasing damage of allies to offset for what damage it can't do. Healing via Damage is a really good example of a secondary feature, as it can offer an ease in healing required and promote damage while not being as broken as it would be if it were a healing specialty (since that means it'd have to be more relied on, resulting in massive balance issues). Other forms of indirect healing such as totems are another good example.

From those two things, you'd follow the basic healer kit shared across other healers:

Basic heal
Large heal
AoE heal
Instant heal
Specialty heal
AoE specialty heal
Raising spell
"Increased healing" cooldown

Basic damage spell
Periodic damage spell
AoE damage spell

I could probably fill it out more, but kinda nodding off. Anyway, after all that, add in some any spells or abilities that would "round out" its overall kit and voila, FFXIV healer.

Healer but with a rifle

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

Maybe a greater focus on AoE placement heals/ shields / buffs? If the next healer is geomancer, it could be like we are casting enchantments on the land itself. Think of those totems the enemies use in Wanderer's Palace (Hard).

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From what I've seen in the Astrologian quests, Geomancer is just reskinned White Mage in XIV. I'd say that an item based healer would probably be the next logical step. Given Alchemist is already being used, call it Apothecary (ala Octopath Traveler) or Salve-maker (ala Bravely Default).

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Healer but with a rifle

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I think there's a job in TA2 called Canonneer that works like that.

I thought they're gonna make Geomancer or Chemist as the new healer.

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

I think there's a job in TA2 called Canonneer that works like that.

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there's also Ana from overwatch and Sharla from xenoblade Chronicles both are healers that use a sniper rifle so its not too much of a stretch to fit in the healer role somehow

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Originally Posted by Duskane

there's also Ana from overwatch and Sharla from xenoblade Chronicles both are healers that use a sniper rifle so its not too much of a stretch to fit in the healer role somehow

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Well in the Star Wars The Old Republic, there's a class where you shoots a bomb or missile filled with green liquid that heals.

Ideas and creativity are not the problem here, there's plenty in the FF world and outside to flesh out a new healer job. Just like dancer could have been one if steps had a mudra like effect that would trigger heals etc.

I would not mind no new healer if SCH WHM and AST got a major revamp that would change them so much that they don't feel so identical.
But that's what I expected from ShB, and that's not what we got.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

GNB does through its normal combo, though it's nothing major.

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WAR and DRK do that as well, but with their combo ender, not the middle section.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

From those two things, you'd follow the basic healer kit shared across other healers:

Basic heal
Large heal
AoE heal
Instant heal
Specialty heal
AoE specialty heal
Raising spell
"Increased healing" cooldown.

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While this seems to be a good generalization, it's a bit inaccurate. SCH doesn't have a Large heal, nor does it have an AoE heal, but it does have the faerie to compensate for the lack of those skills. One could argue overlap in certain areas, but seeing as both AST and WHM have individual skills that fall into the specific categories you listed, the skills SCHs lack cannot be ignored. This is what makes SCH the outlier, which isnt bad, but it's why SCH is a bit more difficult to balance compared to the other two.

Theres only like, 15 or 16 ways you can heal in an MMO, clearly 3 is where the line must be drawn.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

While this seems to be a good generalization, it's a bit inaccurate. SCH doesn't have a Large heal, nor does it have an AoE heal, but it does have the faerie to compensate for the lack of those skills.

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SCH has a large heal and an AoE heal, they're rather different in that half of the potency is wrapped up in shields, but they still fit in the "big heal" and "aoe heal" categories IMHO.

Cure II is 700 potency, Adloquium is 300 potency plus 375 potency as a shield, for 675 potency total. Both cost 1000MP.

Medica is 300 potency, Succor is 180 potency plus a 225 potency shield, for 405 potency total. Medica is 1000MP and Succor is 1300MP.

Maybe they should look outside XIV for inspiration for other healers.

They could take the samba system from FFXI's DNC. Apply a status on the enemy, and when people damage the enemy they are healed. This could be used instead of the standard AoE regen spell, but having a downside of not healing when the enemy is untargetable.
Make it a Darkness aligned healer. Give it a 0-100 blood guage that interact with another debuff. When the debuff is applied to the enemy and the enemy is damaged by any party members, it fills the blood guage. Then the guage can be used to power stronger healing spells.
This would create a healer that uses the party to power their healing.

Could also have a healer that uses oGCD-cooldowns to boost their spells. Turn Esuna into AoE instead of single target, or boost Esuna to remove all debuffs from a single target(like a tank getting hit by Bad Breath). Another oGCD ability could be making regen spell last longer but at the cost of more MP, or shorter duration but with stronger healing per tick. The healer have to use the oGCDs strategically for best usage as they can't be spammed.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

I mean... we have one that regens, we've got one that shields, and we've got another one that can do either.

so what is the 4th healer even going to do? :v

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Imagination Fantasy and Virtual worlds has no borders, I have many ideas, as many other people,

First of my head, leach blood/life from opponent to heal your party members

The problem is basically the "Pure Healer" concept they applied for ShB. This is different for the other support role (tank). All skills for these support roles are split between the support skills (tanking skill and healing) and dps skill.

For the tanks they pretty much harmonized the tanks skills (to the point where the only major difference is the invuln skill). They are differentiated by the dps skills they have which make out a huge part of the skill sets.
For healers they went the other way by pretty much harmonizing the dps skill and they trying to differentiate the actual healing/support skills. But there aren't so many way for healing skill, either you prevent the damage from happning (shields) or you repair the damage afterwards (heals, regens).

As long as they keep it that way I don't see a new healer happing soon.

i love the way the monk in wow heals please give me something like that in this game I just want to channel into someone and use other spells to augment my channel loved it so much

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

Well in the Star Wars The Old Republic, there's a class where you shoots a bomb or missile filled with green liquid that heals.

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Mercenary healing spec

http://casualcoreradio.com/wp-conten...hootToHeal.jpg

I don't understand how people can't see anything beyond we already got, really, there's different Healers in many games MMO or not to take inspirations, FFXIV don't have all possibilites already and nothing new can be done.

Said that, we have 4 Tank now and they are similar in some points ( PLD and GNB, WAR and DRK ), the same can be done with healers.

Ex:

WHM: Massive Healing + Regen.
SCH: Massive Shields + Mitigation.
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AST: Regen + Buffs.
New Healer: Mitigation + Buffs.

Nocturnal Stance can be removed, a melee gameplay style for the new healer would be awesome as well ( Melee for Damage skills, Heals/Buffs remains as Ranged skills for obvious reasons, like PLD, they are a Melee job but Clemency is a Ranged skill ). They can have some skills like AST old card system, mixing potions to have some special effect like buffs ( assuming that the new healer is like Alchemist from FF series, a Healer job based on Potions manipulation ).

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Originally Posted by DenzelVilliers

I don't understand how people can't see anything beyond we already got, really, there's different Healers in many games MMO or not to take inspirations, FFXIV don't have all possibilites already and nothing new can be done.

Said that, we have 4 Tank now and they are similar in some points ( PLD and GNB, WAR and DRK ), the same can be done with healers.

Ex:

WHM: Massive Healing + Regen.
SCH: Massive Shields + Mitigation.
-----------------
AST: Regen + Buffs.
New Healer: Mitigation + Buffs.

Nocturnal Stance can be removed, a melee gameplay style for the new healer would be awesome as well ( Melee for Damage skills, Heals/Buffs remains as Ranged skills for obvious reasons, like PLD, they are a Melee job but Clemency is a Ranged skill ). They can have some skills like AST old card system, mixing potions to have some special effect like buffs ( assuming that the new healer is like Alchemist from FF series, a Healer job based on Potions manipulation ).

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do something like that and you get to see how the healer community especially AST get furious about it(or maybe not if the old card system goes to the new healer then they will just switch to him and AST will probably be an extinct job).
it was bad when WHM lost his skills and were then giving back to others so why doing it again will be better?
also right now with how gutted all healers feel, doing something like that will just appear as SE done it out of spite to the healer community and show they completely ignore them which will make more healers drop their jobs if they truly see that healers are none existence to SE.

they need to address the 3 existing healers first and fix them before doing something like that for the 4th healer.