So I was speculating how the game will progress and how we would get back home with everyone and if we will ever be able to go to other shards and it dawned on me and I need to let it out.
4 people have the ability to cross into the different dimensions as we know it, Ascians, Us/crystal exarch kinda, omega weapon and yah body everybody is sleeping on, Midgardsormr. I am speculating that we figure out where dragons came from due to NeiR. I also speculate he will be involved with bringing everyone back seeing he has the ability to pierce into the *inbetween* of dimensions. If I was gonna throw stuff at the wall and see what stuck I also presume Tiamat will be involved somehow.
I'm speculating and I have no freinds.
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10-04-2019, 01:54 PMMistyregionsI'm speculating and I have no freinds.
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10-04-2019, 06:44 PMSaidosha
I imagine how to fix the botched summoning will come up eventually, so restoring the scions should probably not be considered a worry.
On the other hand, there is the matter of Minfillia, which is a problem I believe the Garleans solved as depicted through Emet: Their cloning technology. We'll probably have to struggle a bit collecting what's left of her aether, but in the end they can still make a body for her to come back to. Then again, this may not even be required depending on how you view Y'shtola abusing Flow.
For now, the glaring loose ends are otherwise putting down the Garleans/Black Rose for good and the bland, at least to me, villain that is Zenos and his plotkai sharingan, I mean Echo. Other things can obviously be pulled out of left field in both realms, but whether or not that actually translates to good storytelling is another matter. Some would still have as believe that Hydaelyn is the big bad, but I've also seen no evidence that Rejoining/Zodiark would be better for us, either. To that end, the Ascians were just sore losers and could have gone about their plan in different ways than basically being fantasy nazis. -
10-04-2019, 08:26 PMIscahMinfilia is gone. Ryne is not Minfilia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saidosha
Technically they could write some way of recovering what remains of her aether (entirely gifted to Ryne) but that would be her third return from being "gone forever" which is definitely too many times for good writing. -
10-04-2019, 08:33 PMIscahThis was covered in the Omega raids. We saw the dragons' homeworld (if briefly) in the fight with Midgardsormr, and it also established that his present-day self used up too much aetherial energy saving us from Omega, and will be resting for what is likely to be more than a human lifespan. He sent Hraesvelgr to help us, but it seems he won't be back in the plot himself any time soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistyregions
Tiamat is certainly a plot point in waiting for something, though. -
10-04-2019, 10:35 PMSerLuke
They’ve previously said that dragon’s come from another star not another dimension, I think the question is more how they got their to our star since I’m assuming their wings aren’t enough for interstellar travel ;)
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10-04-2019, 11:12 PMKageTokageMidgarsormr is a borderline god-like entity, so I don't think interstellar travel posed much of an issue for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by SerLuke
It's been stated that he fled his homeworld with the eggs of his offspring (Thanks to Omega, who was implied to just be the latest in a series of attacks from some highly advanced civilization) who eventually became the progenitors of all dragonkind on Hydaelyn. -
10-05-2019, 03:18 AMMistyregionsI missed that, what scene did we see his homeworld?Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
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10-05-2019, 03:29 AMTwiibieTwuuWhat about Gilgamesh! That's the cliffhanger we got.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistyregions
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10-05-2019, 03:56 AMEnlaIscah said it, it was in the fight with Midgardsormr during the Omega raids. So second fight of the last tier of those raids. We literally fight Midgardsormr as Omega remembered him, on what Omega recreated of his homeworld, for the entirety of the fight. You can tell pretty conclusively it's /not/ Hydaelyn because of the different cosmic landscape in the sky as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistyregions
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/a3J2xgynK70/maxresdefault.jpg
Hard to find screenshots that actually show the sky but you can see the edit of either a REALLY close moon or planet in this one to show it's a different planet.
I really do hope they bring Tiamat back though, it's always depressed me how her story never really got resolved. Especially with the fascinating tidbit in our conversations with her about bringing dead loved ones' back as primals that I was so sure was going somewhere given a certain scene that happens in HW but it never did. -
10-05-2019, 06:13 AMYojimboM
The NieR raid doesn't happen in a "different dimension". It happens on Norvrandt. The prequel quests for it involve a dig-site near Komra that has a "machine graveyard" in it that we can't get into yet.
Interstellar travel is the thing separating us from the Source. The Ascians are obviously capable of it, but due to Emet-Selch's interest in time-manipulation magic, we can assume that it probably takes quite a long time normally (also the massive difference in time from when each Scion arrived on Norvrandt). Not as instant as it appeared when we got tossed into the First. Just like real space travel.
More than likely G'raha Tia and Ryne will come together to somehow make it possible for the other Scions to travel back to the Source at the end of the expansion. Ryne has Minfilia's powers now, and Minfilia is capable of interstellar travel like the Ascians. -
10-05-2019, 09:10 AMIscahWhere are you getting that idea from? The shards are different dimensions, not separated by physical space.Quote:
Originally Posted by YojimboM
The Ascians' plan involves breaking down the barriers between each dimension (ie. rejoining them), and the Crystal Tower "time machine" doesn't just need the Alexander-based ability to move through spacetime but Omega's power over the interdimensional rift.
(The dragons' homeworld is not a shard though, and Midgardsormr and Omega seem to have arrived across physical space. It may be the same "Dragon Star" observed by the Ishgardians to predict Nidhogg's attacks.) -
10-05-2019, 09:11 AMSerLukewhat are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by YojimboM
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10-05-2019, 09:26 AMIscahThere's a sidequest in Tomra called "Word About Komra" that is pretty clearly setting up for the raid - the Goggs have discovered a "machina graveyard" and they've never seen anything like it, it introduces some distinct characters (as far as dwarves can be distinct) and does nothing with them yet, and seems to be the first step of a larger plot... but there's no continuation for it. Yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by SerLuke
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10-05-2019, 09:35 AMTheMightyMolluskIf memory serves, Omega and Midgardsormr's battles rendered the dragons' homeworld uninhabitable, forcing Midgardsormr to flee into space with the last seven eggs, and Omega followed. It was so far that it was effectively a one-way trip. Neither could make a return trip even if they had anything to return to. Middy made a deal with Hydaelyn so that the dragons could repopulate on the Source, but Omega is still trying to get enough power to go home.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
Now I'm wondering; would anyone who traveled to Hydaelyn across the void of space land on the Source by default? Could they possibly land on one of the surviving Shards instead without crossing the Rift? -
10-05-2019, 09:39 AMSerLukeThat’s a good question I have a feeling we’re going to find out the relationship between the shards and the cosmos in the next patch.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk
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10-05-2019, 09:52 AMFawkesI don't think we know enough about what our multiverse looks like to say that for certain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
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10-05-2019, 10:52 AMIscahWe certainly don't know enough to state they aren't parallel dimensions, as YojimboM did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fawkes
I don't think I've ever seen any reference in-game to the possibility that they exist in real space. They are "reflections", "parallel worlds", "dimensions", "mirrored planes". And as I said in my last post, there are practical indications that the people who do understand the shards enough to travel between them (ie. the Ascians and G'raha Tia) perceive them as dimensions, not locations separated by physical space.
While it doesn't directly rule out a revelation that contradicts this understanding, there would be very little point to such a revelation - it would change little or nothing in practical terms and make the concept of "dimensional collapse" and Rejoining a lot messier. -
10-05-2019, 11:11 AMMistyregions
So it is plausible midgardsormr and by extension his kin would have the ability to pierce into the other shards and get people back home?
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10-05-2019, 11:40 AMYojimboMThe reference of the stars (I suspect this is why Urianger turned to astrology). There is exclusivity of the beings that exist off-world from the Source. There is no evidence of a copy of Midgardsormr, Omega, or a copy of Minfilia (that wasn't spawned from our Minfilia). No second incarnation of the Twelve. All of these worlds exist in tandem and can simultaneously impact each other, but their existence is also literal, like Gaia and Terra from Final Fantasy IX (Terra was placed inside Gaia, and they are both different planets, SE is known for bizarre geography like this).Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
There's a quest in Tomra called "Word About Komra". The two dwarves in it are the dwarves from the screenshots we have of the NieR raid. The black and white dwarves. 100% linked prequel quest.Quote:
Originally Posted by SerLuke
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10-05-2019, 05:09 PMTaleraRistainShe hasn't gone anywhere, though. She's remaining in self-imposed containment. She could break herself free but she chooses not to and won't agree for others to do it either. I'm not sure what they could do with her under those auspices. This is her wish for eternity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enla
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10-05-2019, 05:52 PMEnlaBring back into the narrative is what I meant. Not that she's gone anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaleraRistain
It's her wish but given how she ties in with the Allagan, the remaining two of the First Brood, and Ascian plot threads she's in a way something akin to a Chekhov's Gun in terms of plot potential. One doesn't need to wish to be freed to be broken out of imprisonment and she doesn't even need to be freed at all to become plot relevant again either. -
10-05-2019, 08:29 PMRasikko
I don't understand the importance of adding the "and I have no friends" part to the title other than to function as click bait -.-
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10-06-2019, 02:23 AMIscahI think you're making some assumptions about the implications of some things.Quote:
Originally Posted by YojimboM
On "the reference of the stars", do you mean what stars can be seen in the night sky? I've just checked and while I can't compare everything at once, the major stars seem to be the same. I could see the Spire constellation from Lakeland, and some bright stars around the moon were the same when I warped from there to Southern Thanalan.Quote:
The reference of the stars (I suspect this is why Urianger turned to astrology).
Also, astrology is a Sharlayan discipline focused on the concept of fate and predicting the future - it's a rather perfect match for Urianger and his fascination with prophecies. When you first meet up with him on the First, he mentions that he's taken up astrology to "navigate the sea of uncertainty" of their current situation. Also the stars haven't been visible due to the state of eternal Light, so he wouldn't have any idea if they did look different - and he's still successfully using an Eorzean card deck.
I checked Emet's comments on the Sundering as well - at least the easy-to-find ones - and when he's explaining the murals in Qitana he says that Hydaelyn "split the very fabric of reality".
Meanwhile the Exarch's explanation of the shards in 'The Lightwardens' does call them "physically separate" (which could be taken either way) but also talks about calamities "cracking the barrier" between Source and shard.
Apparently Midgardsormr and Omega didn't arrive on the Source until after the Sundering. (Midgardsormr's pact with Hydaelyn suggests that She was already 'in control' of the planet at the point when he arrived.) So there are a few options depending on how far-reaching the dimensional split extends:Quote:
There is exclusivity of the beings that exist off-world from the Source. There is no evidence of a copy of Midgardsormr, Omega, or a copy of Minfilia (that wasn't spawned from our Minfilia).
- if the entire universe was split into copies for each shard, then First-Midgardsormr might still be on the Dragonstar, and First-Omega (or the civilisation that created it) might not have ever been built.
- if the split is 'localised' to just the planet Hydaelyn, then Midgardsormr and Omega were never sundered - there is only one version of them that arrived after the worlds were already split.
On the lack of a "copy of Minfilia" as proof of anything, that argument only really works if we had a recognisable counterpart of every other character, but Minfilia was missing. The only counterparts we've seen (besides Ardbert) are a small number of "utility" characters where the resemblance is a shorthand explanation for them having the same purpose as their Source counterpart.
Ardbert confuses things because he's the WoL's counterpart and could be a lookalike for the "canon" WoL, but probably doesn't look like your character.
So it could go either way. If counterparts are always lookalikes, then why do we have Gerolt and Rowena but not Thancred, Y'shtola, Urianger, etc.? If we're missing them, then it isn't anything remarkable that we're also missing Minfilia.
Or if counterparts don't have to look like each other, then who can say we haven't met First-Minfilia, or any other characters' counterparts? It could be Ryne, for all we can know.
Anyway, since time flows differently on different worlds (surely one of the biggest indicators that they are not on the same physical plane?) then it seems unlikely that you would find counterparts of everyone at the same age at the point in time you went looking for them. They'd end up out-of-synch and you're back to not realistically expecting any perfect lookalikes, even if you do find someone with a counterpart soul fragment.
But where's our first incarnation of the Twelve?Quote:
No second incarnation of the Twelve.
Beside's Louisoix's almost-a-primal-summoning, that is.
There seems to be a long-running thread of "are the gods even real? Are they truly listening? Do they ever actually respond to prayers?" - and we've never had a solid demonstration that they're real. Plus we have things like the link between sun-gods Azeyma and Azim that suggest, if nothing else, some kind of core truth has been passed along and distorted in different ways by different peoples.
Additionally, we don't know much about religion on the First, but there a lot of unexplored references to a "Church of the First Light" that was generally abandoned once Light became something to be hated rather than worshipped. It could be another example of some core concept of the Twelve has taken its own local form over time - assuming that the Twelve do predate the Sundering and aren't an idea that came about on the Source afterwards.